Last stretch of my campaign feels.. bland

Hey guys,
After about two and a half years, I am now planning for my campaign to slowly culminate in a few final chapters and end. Problem is, what I have planned feels kinda - meh.
Here's the situation: my powerful high level pally group is now seeking last clues to find the Arch-Hags they have been tracing for these months and years. Hags reside in their own demiplane not unlike the Domains of dread, with the difference that these hags have full control over their realm. Realm is extremely difficult to enter, so by PC investigation in Candlekeep, they figured it would be Vistani that could offer them a solution (they know how to handle the Mists that surround the demiplane). If all goes well, PCs will encounter Vistani and they will offer PCs a deal: Make an arrangement with Bel, current ruler of Avernus and we will help you enter the realm. Given the power this group wields, this may be rather violent negotiations, but success for PCs is not improbable. There are a few more level-up-worthy side encounters available for them, but they will eventually penetrate this Demiplane of Dread, face the arch hags, but… Hags can just flee and set up shop elsewhere. Teleport and Teleport-like spells are a problem at high level and two mini-BBEGs have evaded them this way already. After all, why suffer hundreds of points of radiant damage, if you can just bail out?

I have sort of Macguffin in my game, taken from Rise of Tiamat in my game (Wizard Diderius and his scrying pool) that can locate pretty much anything and if party gets to him and scryes upon the now fled hags, they will be able to pinpoint them again. Again, hags have enough power to survive a single round and flee again.

I'm not saying all mentioned is a completely bad idea, it just feels a bit… bland. It's a "big picture feel" I have a problem with and the feel of the entire thing. In Rise of Tiamat, you defeat a great threat to Faerun, in Descent into Avernus, you redeem Zariel, here… it might all end with some plane hopping Benny Hill style. At the same time, I do not want to take away the hags' mobility and power.

So I think some broad stroke assessment is missing here. I'd appreciate your thoughts on it.

Thanks

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Originally Posted by HoboKnight

Hey guys,
After about two and a half years, I am now planning for my campaign to slowly culminate in a few final chapters and end. Problem is, what I have planned feels kinda - meh.
Here's the situation: my powerful high level pally group is now seeking last clues to find the Arch-Hags they have been tracing for these months and years. Hags reside in their own demiplane not unlike the Domains of dread, with the difference that these hags have full control over their realm. Realm is extremely difficult to enter, so by PC investigation in Candlekeep, they figured it would be Vistani that could offer them a solution (they know how to handle the Mists that surround the demiplane). If all goes well, PCs will encounter Vistani and they will offer PCs a deal: Make an arrangement with Bel, current ruler of Avernus and we will help you enter the realm. Given the power this group wields, this may be rather violent negotiations, but success for PCs is not improbable. There are a few more level-up-worthy side encounters available for them, but they will eventually penetrate this Demiplane of Dread, face the arch hags, but… Hags can just flee and set up shop elsewhere. Teleport and Teleport-like spells are a problem at high level and two mini-BBEGs have evaded them this way already. After all, why suffer hundreds of points of radiant damage, if you can just bail out?

I have sort of Macguffin in my game, taken from Rise of Tiamat in my game (Wizard Diderius and his scrying pool) that can locate pretty much anything and if party gets to him and scryes upon the now fled hags, they will be able to pinpoint them again. Again, hags have enough power to survive a single round and flee again.

I'm not saying all mentioned is a completely bad idea, it just feels a bit… bland. It's a "big picture feel" I have a problem with and the feel of the entire thing. In Rise of Tiamat, you defeat a great threat to Faerun, in Descent into Avernus, you redeem Zariel, here… it might all end with some plane hopping Benny Hill style. At the same time, I do not want to take away the hags' mobility and power.

So I think some broad stroke assessment is missing here. I'd appreciate your thoughts on it.

Thanks

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Well, two things:

1) if you feel like the ending is not climactic enough, you can always rise the stakes.

Ex: one of the PCs' allies contact them to inform them that the Arch-hags are starting to cook something *nasty*. Like they're making preparation to suck up Waterdeep in their Domain, in order to inflict untold misery on its inhabitants, eat all its children, and loot the city's vast stocks of magic items and spell research.

2) since the Arch-hags can just escape with the plan the PCs currently have... then adding something that let the PCs shut the escape down would be *very* satisfying.

Ex: someone warns the PCs that the hags will just be able to leave if they take the Vistani offer to transport them into the hags' Domain, but also offer a solution. It could be either a magic item that completely shut down planar travel in the Domain for a while, or an item which makes the PCs automatically follow the Arch-hags if they planeshift while in the same plane as the item.

In the first case, the Arch-hags would go form "confident and smug" to "terrified, cornered rattlesnakes" immediately. In the other, the battle would keep going when the Arch-hags try to flee, but the battlefield would change each time, which can make for a cool climax, especially if the hags catch on the PCs have to follow them and try to pick up planes that advantage them while hindering the PCs.

Of course, who that NPC is and what they want in exchange for their help is something you have to decide yourself, but there are tons of possibilities. Could be someone the PCs already helped, even.

In any case, the PCs getting to break/block/exploit the BBEG's main "f*** you" ability is extremely satisfying, when it feels earned/the culmination of the story arc.

What are the hags up to? What do they want, besides "Not getting stabbed in their ugly faces"? What's the players' beef with them?

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Originally Posted by Unoriginal

Well, two things:

1) if you feel like the ending is not climactic enough, you can always rise the stakes.

Ex: one of the PCs' allies contact them to inform them that the Arch-hags are starting to cook something *nasty*. Like they're making preparation to suck up Waterdeep in their Domain, in order to inflict untold misery on its inhabitants, eat all its children, and loot the city's vast stocks of magic items and spell research.

2) since the Arch-hags can just escape with the plan the PCs currently have... then adding something that let the PCs shut the escape down would be *very* satisfying.

Ex: someone warns the PCs that the hags will just be able to leave if they take the Vistani offer to transport them into the hags' Domain, but also offer a solution. It could be either a magic item that completely shut down planar travel in the Domain for a while, or an item which makes the PCs automatically follow the Arch-hags if they planeshift while in the same plane as the item.

In the first case, the Arch-hags would go form "confident and smug" to "terrified, cornered rattlesnakes" immediately. In the other, the battle would keep going when the Arch-hags try to flee, but the battlefield would change each time, which can make for a cool climax, especially if the hags catch on the PCs have to follow them and try to pick up planes that advantage them while hindering the PCs.

Of course, who that NPC is and what they want in exchange for their help is something you have to decide yourself, but there are tons of possibilities. Could be someone the PCs already helped, even.

In any case, the PCs getting to break/block/exploit the BBEG's main "f*** you" ability is extremely satisfying, when it feels earned/the culmination of the story arc.

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Ninja'd... but explained better than I would have done it.

A group of cornered hags in their lair is absolutely terrifying due to their tendency to have loads of random and unique magic items. Not stuff like Wands of Fireball, but weird stuff.

A plane-hopping battle could be an absolute blast for the players but is a metric ton of work for you. Maybe you can split them up so at least one survives. A hag coven is a serious problem. A lone angry hag is a normal problem.

So here's my 2cents.

What the Visanti haven't told the PCs but that they might find out when they talk to Bel is that in order to enter or leave the demiplane it requires a sacrifice. Specifically it requires performing a 1 minute ritual that consumes and destroys a soul for each person that wants to travel. Naturally Bel is willing to teach/show/perform the ritual as well as provide the soul coins needed. Bel would also want to keep the exact details secret, as they would love to provide only enough soul coins to travel there but not back, as well as hide the fact that the souls are destroyed by the ritual which is at best evil-adjacent.

For the Hags, naturally they have a large collection of soul coins or equivalent that they have bargained for over the years, but they are still effectively prevented from just taking an action in combat planeshift away. The hags escape plan is basically get to the treasure room that holds the soul coins and other valuables, trigger a lockdown of that room that brings up walls of force which buys time for the hag(s) to do the ritual and escape. If the PCs have stolen the soul coins or can otherwise bypass the walls of force then they will effectively prevent the hags from escaping.

If the PCs have not fully understood that the souls get consumed/destroyed they would find that out after the battle giving them that one last moral dilemma do they destroy some of the souls the hags have to get back home or free those souls but remain trapped in the demiplane.

As I see it, the biggest issue is that the Hags can just keep fleeing.


Also, I'm not sure why the Vistani's condition to help is to make an arrangement with a fiend.


The obvious answer to me is that the Vistani are scared. If they help the PC's, but the Hag's escape, then the Hags will surely go after them for revenge. They're willing to help, but only if they're convinced the PC's can seal the deal.


What The Lord of Avernus (or any other sufficiently powerful NPC), might have is a way to follow the Hags when they teleport away, repeating their teleport. Thus turning the showdown into a running battle. The Hag's flee, the PC's follow and the fight restarts in a new Arena. This lets you get your proper final confrontation in.

If your players are planners, get them thinking about this. What do they need to have to keep the Hags from running away?

Those are your prep/sidequest hooks. They more they do, the better off they are. Things like:

-A scroll of Dimension Lock or Sequester or some other spell that may not have been ported to 5e. Teleportation fails in the area.
-A ring of 3 wishes (Wish: Teleportation and plane shifting would fail in this area for 1 minute)
-Catcher: Trident +2, +1d6 force damage; targets struck with this trident must stay in their current location until the start of the wielder's next turn. This includes preventing teleportation and plane shifting.
-True name research. I don't think they have anyone who can cast Psychic Lance, but maybe they can combo this info with some Command spells, or Compelled Duel? Shoot, even just Compelled Duel is pretty decent for this, if the Hags don't have high Wisdom saves.
-Antimagic arrows (very rare); creatures struck by these take 1d6 psychic damage and must make a Concentration save at disadvantage to cast until the end of their next turn.

I would argue that a grand finale where the PCs chase the hags across several planes in a single encounter is a fantastic way to cap off a campaign. Reminds me of the final battle from Chrono Trigger.

Feed 'em whatever tools they'll need to make that happen--maybe a magic item designed for the purpose.

(If you're in need of a sequel hook, maybe one of the places the hags flee to is someplace significant, like the Far Realm, or some place nobody's ever seen before. There's a big eyeball that notices everyone and the hags book it immediately rather than continuing to battle the PCs there. What are they so afraid of?)

You campaign remind me a lot of the "Crown of the Oathbreaker", its the one I am running currently and I have adapted it to the FR. So I will give suggestions about how it deal with the hags.

In the campaing to reach the Hags realm in the feywild you have to go through a cursed Tree that touches both planes at the same time. You seem to have already figured out how your players will reach the Hags domain, but not how they will confront them.

In the adventure the characters need to get the source of the hags immortality to force then to cooperate, to undo the curse that is the central theme of the campaign, but to do that they need, besides the hags cooperation, destroy the tree becoming entrapped in their realm forever.

After lifting the curse the character can choose to destroy the hags source of immortality and try to kill then, but to be able to flee their realm they have to get lordship over the realm by doing several quests.
Once a character becomes king over that real he can open planar travel and the characters can finally return to the material plane.

When they do, they discover that 10 years have passed and lifting the curse released the BBEG into the world.

You could use these elements to spice up your ending. The characters will return to a ravaged land where Bel was set free, your ending can be bittersweet because one of the characters will have to go back to the feywild and be the king of their fey realm (We saved our land, but not for me) and you can do several quests in the Hags realm for the characters to be able to get lordship over it.

I think these would add up really nice in your campaign

Allrighty.

Raising the stakes is a good idea, but I'm running these hags as smart predators. They do not want to bite off more than they can chew. That’s why they always pick upon small settlements in all sorts of Planes, but never big ones. Wanting to curse a settlement with 1d4+20 Arch Mages in it is a bad idea.

I think regarding Teleport – I’ll do things more organic. I’ll use more enemies with Teleport ability on the way to BBEGs, so players can get used to such opponents and find solutions/spells/gear on their own.

Hags are up to having fun. Driving a protective father so insane, he locks up his family in a cellar for life. A nurturing mother to force-feed a child, until they die of overfeeding. And hags want this on a large scale – settlement size. Over decades they got in a possession of their own domain, into which they drag entire settlements and slowly pick them apart. What’s the player’s beef with them? Well, PCs have encountered the arch hag handywork several times on their adventures. And they didn’t like it, especially not Paladin of Helm, who is in a group.

Bel is in this story, because they are strong enough. They are one of rare creatures, who are unafraid of mentioned hag trio.

Yes, Vistani are scared and for a good reason. Since they can sense the Mists as they form, they also know of these specific hags. And Vistani are smart enough to keep away from the trio. Vistani might enter a deal, however. Decades ago, three Vistani tribes made a deal with Bel (unvisely, love was involved) and Vistani deem if Bel is willing to break the contract, they will help the PCs find the hags… If PCs are strong enough, yes.

Repeating arena idea is great.

I really love J-Hs ideas. Me and my players like RAW and these options offer that.

Thanks to everyone!

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Originally Posted by J-H

If your players are planners, get them thinking about this. What do they need to have to keep the Hags from running away?

Those are your prep/sidequest hooks. They more they do, the better off they are. Things like:

-A scroll of Dimension Lock or Sequester or some other spell that may not have been ported to 5e. Teleportation fails in the area.

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Private Sanctum would cover that nicely within RAW.

Alternatively, give the hags reason to not flee. Maybe they've entered into their own deal with The Biggest Nasty. Not finishing that Ritual in their pocket dimension means failing that deal and guaranteed annihilation.

This also creates room for upping the stakes in the narrative, and provides the party with options: kill hags, or disrupt ritual + grab popcorn + see wrath in action. Regardless, Biggest Nasty will definitely notice the players, which generallly is... scary.