It comes out this Friday, I believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboChap
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It comes out this Friday, I believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboChap
The movie comes out Friday in the US, and I'm really curious to see how they mesh it in with the show. They've been pushing the show's tie-in to the movie (since Cap'n Boyscout is the one of the Avengers who still deals with all of SHIELD in his off-team time) but they can't say "here's a bunch of stuff from the TV show we assume you know" and they also can't come back next week of the show with "we're gonna assume you saw the movie this weekend, how about all those spoilers, eh?" The current analogy I'm theorizing is "movie shows Godzilla playing hopscotch for 2 hours, the TV show has everyone dealing with quakes and collapsing buildings while arguing about what could be causing them".Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboChap
As to your spoiler, since when it happened in the show my first thought was "Sitwell, you've been assigned to be in the movie, get out of here" I'm not sure that part really counts as a spoiler when said without any details. Probably best to err on the side of caution, it just seemes rather blatant to me.
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Originally Posted by theNater
SpoilerWhat we are actually shown is that Hand turned the Bus around: no more, no less.
SpoilerAs dehro already pointed out, there was also the direct order she gave to "take out everyone on that plane," except for Coulson, because "he's mine."
She's not suggesting everyone get takeout at the shawarma place; she's giving kill orders. Now, maybe she has intel that suggests everyone on the plane has been compromised, meaning she might still be a straight-up S.H.I.E.L.D. agent--but they clearly want us to think she's the Clairvoyant.
Or, possibly, one step down from the Clairvoyant, feeding him or her psych profiles and carrying out directives.
The more I think about it, the more I think it's another fakeout. I agree that May is likely talking directly to Fury, and has her own mini-op that Coulson doesn't know about; and given that compartmentalization seems to be a theme here, it's possible Victoria Hand is reading the same signals that Coulson is, and leaping to the same conclusions--but unlike Coulson she has no reason to hesitate an instant to pull the trigger, and will do so just as soon as the Bus touches down.
For that matter, why not send another S.H.I.E.L.D. limpet-jet to latch onto the Bus in midair, grab Coulson, doubletap the others, and then dump the Bus in the Mariana Trench?
...oh, wait, it has a really nice minibar.
:smalltongue:
.
I normally don't watch blockbuster movies on opening weekend, because the crowds are too crazy. I also don't normally watch movies in movie theaters anymore because it's difficult to get babysitting.
And darn it all, I want to watch Captain America 2 and am tempted to make it into my wedding anniversary date, solely so I can see how it affects Agents of SHIELD. That's pure evil Marvel, well-played.
Spoiler: Latest episodeI am SO SHOCKED that the evil-looking sinister-acting redhead in a position of power IS EVIL.
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Originally Posted by Mauve Shirt
[Robot chicken]What a twist! [/Robot Chicken]
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Originally Posted by Mauve Shirt
SpoilerTo be fair she's based on a character from the comics who IS evil, so we really should of saw it coming.
Is she, though? I feel like this is just another misdirection.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauve Shirt
SpoilerMy money is on Agent Garrett. Why? Three reasons.
1) He went along with the plan to raid the Guest House with nary a word of protest.
2) He was Ward's CO and would know exactly what buttons to push to make Ward shoot the fake Clairovoyant.
3) Dethlok, who is just about indestructible, gave up a little too easily when ambushing Garrett.
It's a shame that he's evil, because I genuinely like Agent Garrett.
Interesting detail I wanted to mention yesteday, but forgot:
SpoilerWhere did Shield get the "Dethlock" name? It's printed on his leg, I think, but not very prominently and they only saw him a few times. Hand suggested the name. Points at her a bit, I think, might be a slip.
Also, what exactly was the purpose of the very first scene? Two agents are in a safehouse. Dethlock comes through the door, they shoot him a few times, do nothing, he flees. Why? What was the point of that attack, if he runs that quickly? Just to annoy shield?
Also, another vote for Garrett. No evidence, but I just think he feels slimy and unlikeable. For some reason, I can't stand the guy.
I think Skye got a good look at the fake leg I think so she may have picked it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldan
they don't fit in their backpacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldan
Yay! Awesome episode. I loved the X-Ray shot of Dethlok looking a lot like the comics.
Spoiler: HandI am guessing Hand is the Clairvoyant, but it will turn out she is working for or being manipulated by someone else (still holding out for MODOK or Mastermind or someone else from comics). Garret could be Hand's right hand man, which could explain the half-hearted attack on him by Dethlok. It would make sense that it is a faction of SHIELD/the Government which wants super soldiers from projects Centipede and Dethlok, presumeably for national security against super beings and aliens. Of course this will be exploited by an evil mastermind in an attempt to take over the world.
Spoiler: comicsRemember in the comics, however, it turned out in the end Hand was a double/triple agent for Captain America all along (in MCU it would more likely be Fury rather than Capt.Rogers). Although, I don't know how we could reconcile her kill order with the idea that she is a double agent infiltrating the bad guys' network, unless she fully expects the team will find a way to survive and she doesn't want her cover blown yet.
Not sure if someone else had noticed before, but:
SpoilerFor the last fifteen minutes up to the reveal, I had the nasty feeling Simmons is (involved with) the Clairvoyant. One could imaging she would have the skills to get access to classified information, as well as the technological/biological expertise for creating superpowered soldiers/androids. She is super eager to know what happened to Coulson, and I think she even mentioned that she wanted to go to (some SHIELD facility) earlier in the episode (which Fitz deduced was because she would have better facilities). Also, in the penultimate scene, the plane suddenly takes off, and all the other members are accounted for (Fitz, May, Coulson and Skye in the shootout situation, Ward in lock-up). Finally, it wouldn't be the first time when we see that a relatively low-profile character on the good guys team turns out to be working for (or be) the bad guy. I'm hoping I'm wrong :)
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Originally Posted by Eldan
SpoilerMy guess is that it was to sell the Nash deception. The Clairvoyant learns that Garrett and Triplett have requested the rejects file from The List, and attacks them so they'll think it's important.
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Originally Posted by Candle Jack
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Originally Posted by Eldan
SpoilerI have a good answer for this. Ignoring the fact that he may of been ordered to retreat to give credence to the idea that they are getting close (which could be true) I also think it's because one of the bullets hit his face, revealing the metal skin. Now, our friend here doesn't know, at the time, he's got metal bits underneath his skin, so being shot in the head and living is something that would give him reason to run away.
Literally just watched it now, and my view is ... meh.
Mostly because after most of a season of essentially puttering around seting up various semi-interweaved plots and dropping hints that made me, at least, often think "Can you just DO something?!?" (I complained a lot about the early episodes having plots that were just there to do characterization and weren't developed on their own in any way even in their own episodes), all of a sudden in this episode the idea seems to be "Hey, let's try to resolve everything all at once!". Which makes it all seem rushed, which is not what we wanted ... but is, sadly, consistent with what this show always does.
Case in point, with May:
SpoilerWhy did they need to reveal that at this point, then and there? Is there something about it in Winter Soldier or something? Because it only added complications to an already full episode. Even IF it was related to the Clairvoyant arc, the confrontation added nothing here except take up time and add conflict. It could have been revealed with her turning on them if she was involved, even though she probably isn't. And Skye becoming an agent, Simmons trying to analyze the blood sample, and a lot of the other interactions just cluttered up the episode.
My opinion of the series so far is essentially this: good ideas, bad writing.
As for the ending:
SpoilerHand is definitely an antagonist, but she may not be the Clairvoyant. She clearly doesn't like and is opposing Fury, and if Fury's under fire as has been suggested, then she'd have a reason to move against them that's completely unrelated to the Clairvoyant arc, which would make it odd to hint that it's related if it isn't. Add in that she was on the Bus and would have been able to find out about May's link, if May was working for Fury then that would have given her a reason to take out the Bus as soon as a move against Fury started, and with Fury now being back on the grid this would have been the time to move.
And since May is now pretty much the only character I actually like, if she turns out to be bad then I'll probably actually stop watching the show ...
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Originally Posted by theNater
Spoiler: undefinedI wondered about that. She could have been suspicious because all of Coulson's team survived unscathed vs. Deathlok, while an agent who had been brought was critically injured; Deathlok is conveniently tracked with technology just invented by a member of Coulson's team; and a member of Coulson's team conveniently murders the suspect they then have in custody. So I think there is room for the theory that she is not the clairvoyant. Though I really don't know who else could be. It has to be someone who loves reading files.
I actually liked this episode a lot, for a variety of reasons.
Spoiler
1: Actual plot development.
2: A reminder that they are part of a massive organization, and that they can get help, plus the other SHIELD agents are pretty fun.
3: Skye was actually good here. Yes, the show is still shilling her, but they're at least trying to keep her skillset semi-specific and unique compared to the rest of the cast. Early on it looked like she was going to be the Superhacker who, due to some kung-fu lessons, could ALSO hold her own in the field. Now that she's thoroughly dismounted her High-Horse she's only really annoying when she's doing stupid things, or when everybody else is fawning over her.
Having her be the Data Analysis Girl opens up a nice place for her in the team dynamic even when there's nothing for her to hack. It means they don't need to keep twisting the plot to keep her relevant, she can be the exposition girl, "I traced their IP and analyzed patterns in their bank statements, the bad guys are here". Good job Skye, now stay on the bus with Fitzsimmons while Team Asskicker goes to Kick Ass.
That said "You've passed every test for being a shield agent", really? I thought Shield had whole, multi-year academies to train Agents.
I mean, I can also understand them having the power to cut through red tape and make exceptions in certain cases, but I though that's what the "Consultant" status was for. And we certainly haven't seen Skye sitting down to take the S.H.I.E.L.D Written exam, with the two-part essay question and an oral interview.
I don't think May is working for the Clairvoyant, Fury is probably on the other end of that phone.
I don't think the Clairvoyant is anybody we've met, or, more likely, they're somebody we met in a very minor capacity, like Ron Glass's doctor character.
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Originally Posted by BRC
Spoiler
Hand adds "for level 1" after he says that. This means she's a grunt who can now GO to one of those special multi year academies..
I'm not taking the "level 1" zinger for anything more than a bit of humour or sarcasm, because...
Spoilerthey officially recruited her in order to give her formal permission to gain access to all those data that she needed to in order to perform her task... thing is, that data was somewhere in the regio of levels 7 and above.. so I don't think they've really only made her a level 1 agent
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Originally Posted by dehro
SpoilerWell they've also established you can give higher access to lower ranked agents.
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Originally Posted by LaZodiac
Spoiler
I would be surprised if access to all information was a simple binary "If you have this clearance level you know it, if not you don't" thing, that's impractical and gets in the way of good compartmentalization of intelligence.
The scientists working on your Level-4 Classified secret project don't need to have access to the work being done by your level-4 analysts.
Still, there's probably some protocols about "You must be at least this clearance to be granted access to this".
Plus, if we assume information isn't binary, then the whole "Coulson is Alive" thing makes a lot more sense.
Coulson being alive is apparently a level-7 secret.
The Avengers, including SHIELD's top agents, are only level 6.
And yet we've been meeting agents all over the place who are just like "Oh yeah, Coulson's alive, Fury played mind games with the Avengers, Cool." It makes more sense if coulson is a secret specifically being kept from the Avengers, than if Black Widow is ranked below the flight crews who refuel the Bus.
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Originally Posted by Eldan
SpoilerI thought they got the name from Garrette, who was pursuing Quinn and had picked up the trail of Project Deathlok. Then Skye was able to clue them in on what she saw-- Mike Peterson and his "magic leg", which told them what Project Deathlok was about.
So, I saw the last episode.
They made an Alpha Flight reference.
Bravo, Marvel Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D, bravo.
I strongly recommend seeing Winter Soldier this weekend (saw an 8 pm showing here in Indiana). I suspect next week's Agents of SHIELD will have spoilers for the events of the movie, and I found the movie enhanced for knowing the events of AoS up to last Tuesday.
Edit:Spoiler: Winter Soldier spoilers with musings as pertains to AoSFirst off...there goes my "Sitwell is the Clairvoyant" theory.
On the other hand, I now think HYDRA's the clairvoyant, so to speak. Can't be the Algorithm itself, as that wasn't brought online yet.
As to timing, I think Simmons' "there's some sort of big troop movements here" was when Captain America went on the run. We know it's not after the events of Winter Soldier, because the Triskelion's still there. During the big fight scene doesn't really leave time for a resolution with Agent Hand standing there being smarmy.
I guess next weeks show will only tie in marginally with Winter Soldier (similar to how it hardly tied in with Thor, The dark world), basically because they wouldn't want a TV show to lose viewers because they didn't have a chance to see the movie yet. Basically, if it ties in heavily, I will stop watching AoS until I have seen the movie, and I am sure more people will think that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by huttj509
Excellent, people have started seeing Cap 2! I can finally post some thoughts on it (and really, really, REALLY massive spoilers will be here so don't read this until after you've seen the movie, I've refrained from posting until now to make sure not to give anything away and still don't want to ruin things for you!)
So, what we know about SHIELD now and how it relates to AoS: (Did I mention, SPOILERS!!!)
SpoilerSo. SHIELD is basically in tatters. Rotten to the core with Hydra and ripped to shreds by the resultant battle. We now know Sitwell was Hydra. Agent Hand sent him to the ship on this weeks episode. It is therefore reasonable to assume that she, too, is Hydra. For Hand that's not a huge shock, but Sitwell? I frequently spoke on here about how much I loved seeing more of Sitwell and how he was Coulsons friend...I felt so angry and betrayed that he was dirty, my friends found it hilarious that despite that massive plot featuring major characters it was the betrayal by a minor character that I focussed on most!!
Nick Fury is believed dead by all but Agent Scherbatsky, random Doctor, Scarlett Widow, Cap and Falcon. I would guess that May has been reporting not to Fury but to Maria Hill on Furys orders. I think the tie-in may show Hill contacting May on the next episode while laying low with Fury and not knowing who to trust. It will be interesting to see whether they announce Fury as dead on the show, but there is just way too much that happens to Shield that I can't help but wonder how much of the film will be given away in the next episode if you haven't seen it.
Black Widow uploads SHIELDs secrets to the internet...it is implied by Pierce that this is a blanket upload of everything, even classified ops etc as he points out that all of the questionable things Black Widow has done will be public...if this includes EVERY secret SHIELD has then that has some pretty huge implications for the show...did they just publicly unveil the Index?! Is Skyes status as an 084 now known to everybody?! We know the exact nature of Coulsons revival was off book, but presumably his continued survival is, at least, a matter of record? Do the Avengers now know? (We learn that cap loves the internet, so I bet he reads up on everything that got posted!)
Lets go back to SHIELD being Hydra. My original theory, way back when the show began, was that Caterpillar was Hydra and that one of the team would be a traitor. My longstanding theory was Fitz = Hydra, as I figured one of FitzSimmons would be a bigger betrayal as they are inseparable and that Fitz was surprisingly competent in the field during the mission of the world most dangerous sandwich. If there is a Hydra mole on the team, though, I now don't know who it could be...looking at the team:
May - Implicated too much in the last episode otherwise I would have said her as the most trusted ally but now its TOO obvious. Also, she knows about TAHITI but we believe the clairvoyant doesn't. If she works for him, she would have told him, surely?!
Fitz and Ward - both sent on a suicide mission by Hand in the sandwich episode. If Hand is Hydra, why would she kill another hydra agent? That said, she may have known Ward was a survivor and he did just shoot fake-clairvoyant in cold blood. Because he was upset? Or because the Clairvoyant ordered him to tie up a lose end?
Skye - Knows about TAHITI, same as May
Jemma Simmons - If there is a hydra agent on the bus, Jemma seems most likely on the current basis - conspicuously absent when the kill order was made by Hand? Fits the Fitz theory above? Relentlessly trying to find out more about the miracle GH drug? I hope its not, as I love Simmons and don't want her written out, but she is now the most likely in my eyes.
Blast it all... this isn't really a spoiler for those who've read the comic but since it's being done this way...Quote:
Originally Posted by LaZodiac
Spoiler
Hand, in the comic, was NOT actually evil.
She had a role of power under someone who was evil, i.e. Osborne... but she was basically just a hyper-efficient, goal-oriented, bureaucratic/administrative skill-set with legs.
When Osborne was removed from his position leading H.A.M.M.E.R. and the Dark Avengers, Captain America used her as a liaison to a street-level team of Avengers. She wasn't wholly trusted, but she wasn't evil and, IIRC, I don't think she actually did anything technically criminal.
That said, it's fair to distrust her. Her character is built for it.
It's also fair to think it's a misdirection for her to come out as a bad guy. Her character is also built for that.
I am anxious to see how all this plays out now that the CA film made some of its revelations... and I do wonder if one of those repercussion might actually BE the instillation of...(Yeah... that one is a longshot, I know. But if it happens, I get to say I said so! :smallbiggrin:SpoilerH.A.M.M.E.R. Perhaps we'll even see a Dark Avengers built around Deathlok, Gill, Lorelei, etc...
Well...considering the events of Captain America 2...I DON'T think Hand's gonna start up the Dark Avenger's any time soon. Sorry :smallredface:Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeDarkly_X
The events in CAII are precisely what make it possible for them to take the story that direction...Quote:
Originally Posted by LaZodiac
Spoilerbut before that, H.A.M.M.E.R. would be the next logical step if S.H.E.I.L.D. is completely disassembled... and that point isn't entirely clear.
Actually... what might happen in A-II:AoU is another way to lead into it as well... so... maybe not next season, but the one after.
Heh.
Again... it's only a very long shot of where they could go if they wanted. And it might be kind of cool if they did.
Oh and regarding where they acquired the name "Deathlok" to use so casually in reference to Peterson... I don't remember for sure if it was revealed in the on-screen interrogation of Quinn, but he is in custody so they could easily have gotten him to reveal that; he did seem to be easy to coerce into talking.