Metal Thread VII: The Mosh Pit Don't Start 'Til We Walk In

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Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie

I was wondering if Symphonic Metal was well talked about here. Personally, it's my favourate sub-genre of metal. Epica is a good band to have a listen to for that sort of thing.

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Heh, it's talked about, just not necessarily well talked about. But I like symph metal, so there. The common complaint seems to be that it de-emphasizes the "metal" part, and over-emphasizes the, well, "white woman wailing" part. But whatever. I still think Midnattsoll's Metamorphosis Melody is a brilliant album.

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Originally Posted by aethernox

To oversimplify, they resembled sped-up Sunn O))) if Steven O'Malley and Greg Anderson were female and had received strong visual influences from Alejandro Jodorowsky. They weren't particularly bad.

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That actually sounds legitimately good. Maybe it's just because of your awesome descriptive skills :smallbiggrin:

Also that set list looks so good. I'd have liked to see a bit more marrow, but no matter. It's not like I'm ever going to get to see them anyway, so whatever. :/

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Originally Posted by godspit

That sounds like an awesome setlist. It's this Saturday and I'm looking forward to it.

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Iron Maiden Y U NO TOUR EUROPE!

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Originally Posted by Moff Chumley

Hey Faulty, you were into Botanist for a bit, yeah? My band's doing an album at the studio he recorded at. Want me to ask the engineer anything about 'em? Deafheaven and Grayceon have also recorded there, although I haven't a clue what their reputations are like 'round these parts. :smalltongue:

We're gonna be working with the same engineer who did all of them, anything you guys want me to ask him about your favorite semi-obscure San Francisco black metal acts?

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Did he record Bosse-de-Nage? What are those guys like? Do they listen to a load of Slint? Is the Botanist guy an eco-anarchist or something? Are the dudes from Deafheaven nice? What is it like recording black metal artists?

Also ask him if he'll give you free stuff and if he's single and interested in long distance dating. ;3

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Originally Posted by WhamBamSam

The words "toothless" and "boring" feature prominently in my assessment of Beherit, as with most Black Metal.

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Which Beherit and black metal did you listen to?

I think black metal is really metal's least metal genre, and is essentially (or at least was, and still is at its best) an avant-garde genre that combines the nature of metal, especially thrash and sometimes death, with aspects of punk, minimalist ambient and (in some ways particularly modern, with its atypical use of instruments and love of inverting notions of what music should sound like) classical. Add in the way its simplicity easily allows for the blending in of stuff like folk or other genres of metal and you have a pretty rich and odd tapestry that goes beyond simply metal. It's also in some ways a matter of a certain je ne sais quoi and affect. It's no wonder black metal and genres like noise, neofolk, industrial, dark ambient and other unconventional and dark modes of music.

This is where the problem some metal heads have with black metal, think. I'm always happy to help expand people's taste and views on the subject. There's plenty of black/death you might dig, Sam, especially if you like more rhythmic and amelodic music.

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Originally Posted by aethernox

I forgot to mention how legit I found this.

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Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Faulty

Which Beherit and black metal did you listen to?

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I listened to a few songs off of their first demo and the songs "Werewolf, Semen and Blood" and Blood" and "Morbid Rehearsals." "Morbid Rehearsals" linked off to a Morbid Angel song, and I'd sort of had enough at that point.

As for BM generally, I really do try to listen to most of the stuff that gets linked in this thread or comes up in metal conversation frequently. It just never quite clicks.

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I think black metal is really metal's least metal genre, and is essentially (or at least was, and still is at its best) an avant-garde genre that combines the nature of metal, especially thrash and sometimes death, with aspects of punk, minimalist ambient and (in some ways particularly modern, with its atypical use of instruments and love of inverting notions of what music should sound like) classical. Add in the way its simplicity easily allows for the blending in of stuff like folk or other genres of metal and you have a pretty rich and odd tapestry that goes beyond simply metal. It's also in some ways a matter of a certain je ne sais quoi and affect. It's no wonder black metal and genres like noise, neofolk, industrial, dark ambient and other unconventional and dark modes of music.

This is where the problem some metal heads have with black metal, think.

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That's an accurate assessment. The genre has a reputation as satanist church burning extreme metal, but really it's just sort of hipstery.

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I'm always happy to help expand people's taste and views on the subject. There's plenty of black/death you might dig, Sam, especially if you like more rhythmic and amelodic music.

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Blackened Death would probably be the best bet. Death Metal has a certain focus and aggression to it that could potentially balance out some of my main gripes with Black Metal. I'm open to suggestions if you'd like to try some. It's because of you that I got into Artillery after all, so our tastes can't be completely incompatible.

I should also try listening to Emperor again. I remember having an impression of them as just a lesser incarnation of Opeth, but those impressions can be unreliable, and they seem to get cited as a good gateway band a lot.

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Originally Posted by grimbold

Iron Maiden Y U NO TOUR EUROPE!

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They'll cover most of the planet before this tour cycle is over. I'd expect them to be in Europe next year at the latest.

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Originally Posted by Faulty

Did he record Bosse-de-Nage? What are those guys like? Do they listen to a load of Slint? Is the Botanist guy an eco-anarchist or something? Are the dudes from Deafheaven nice? What is it like recording black metal artists?

Also ask him if he'll give you free stuff and if he's single and interested in long distance dating. ;3

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He did not record Bosse-de-Nage unless it's a secret that he's not telling me. The Botanist guy is a really good friend of his, and apparently the whole thing started as a psuedo-half-semi-ironic inside joke and spiraled very quickly. Also, aside from the three albums he has out, he's got three more unreleased ones he's sitting on. Apparently he just churns out material like no one's business.
Didn't talk about Deafheaven, will ask again tomorrow.

Generally it's bad manners to ask your recording engineer for free stuff; seeing as he puts up with me and the guitarist's frankly ridiculous and obtrusive coffee and cigarette consumption, I figure pushing our luck isn't a good idea.

Also, he lives in the warehouse the studio's in with his girlfriend. So I assume he has a girlfriend. :smalltongue:

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Originally Posted by WhamBamSam

I should also try listening to Emperor again. I remember having an impression of them as just a lesser incarnation of Opeth, but those impressions can be unreliable, and they seem to get cited as a good gateway band a lot.

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I'd suggest listening to Emperor's catalogue backwards. Hell, maybe you should actually start with Ihsahn's angL and work back from there.

Anywho, saw Agalloch for the first time. That knocks another one off of my fairly short 'before I die' list. They played a lot of songs I hoped they would ("Falling Snow", "In the Shadow of our Pale Companion", "Kneel to the Cross"), but no "Not Unlike the Waves" or anything off The White. Guess that just means I'll have to see them again some time. :smallbiggrin:

And then I'm seeing Iron Maiden (for the first time as well) in a week. Another one to be off the list. Wait, am I gonna die soon?

Oh nevermind, I don't need to worry about that because Ulver's never coming here.

Listen to everything Emperor did from their inception to 1995, then pretend the rest of it doesn't exist. :smalltongue:

Ignore everything Emperor ever did, and listen to Mortiis instead.



...what?

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Originally Posted by Feytalist

Ignore everything Emperor ever did, and listen to Mortiis instead.



...what?

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wat

...

wat

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Originally Posted by aethernox

Agalloch was gooood. Their primary tour-mates are a two-peice drone/doom outfit called Taurus. To oversimplify, they resembled sped-up Sunn O))) if Steven O'Malley and Greg Anderson were female and had received strong visual influences from Alejandro Jodorowsky. They weren't particularly bad.

Agalloch's set list was something like

Spoiler

Show

• Limbs
• Ghosts of the Midwinter Fires (the only Marrow track in the entire set)
• Faustian Echoes
• Falling Snow
• Hallways of Enchanted Ebony
• As Embers Dress the Sky
• You Were But a Ghost in My Arms
• In The Shadow of Our Pale Companion
• Kneel to the Cross
• Of Stone, Wind, and Pillor (thus began the pseudo-encore)
• Our Fortress is Burning I
• Our Fortress is Burning II: Bloodbirds

Lots of Ashes, which was great. Not very much of The Mantle, but to be fair In The Shadow is like 15 minutes long.

The Sol Invictus cover was great. I drove like 700 miles this weekend, but all in all (even though the venue's sound felt a bit off) it was pretty swell. Saulot and Godspit are catching this tour as well, yeah? Hopefully that goes well.

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Herpaderp, didn't see your comment earlier. Missed 98% of the opening act Pinkish Black. Came in and their vocalist was just growling "It tastes like blooooood" over and over in the mic and then their set ended. Taurus was alright. It was suitable music to go with the images going on behind them, but I doubt I'd ever listen to it by itself. And then Agalloch was better than I hoped they would be. Sorry to hear about the venue you saw them at, but the sound was fantastic here.

Setlist:

Spoiler

Show

• Falling Snow
• The Watcher's Monolith
• Faustian Echoes
• Ghosts of the Midwinter Fires
• I Am the Wooden Doors
• You Were But a Ghost in My Arms
• In the Shadow of Our Pale Companion
• Kneel to the Cross

Encore:

• Into the Painted Grey
• Our Fortress is Burning

And I'm missing a song or two somewhere in there. So did they really just stop at OFiB II for you guys?

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Originally Posted by Faulty

Listen to everything Emperor did from their inception to 1995, then pretend the rest of it doesn't exist. :smalltongue:

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Originally Posted by Feytalist

Ignore everything Emperor ever did, and listen to Mortiis instead.

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Equally absurd statements.

They didn't just "stop" after Bloodbirds, but it's not like what happened afterwards was actually "The Grain." They just ****ed around with their pedals and amps while John started using the stage props (his incense burners, deer hooves, etc) on his guitar. It was good, though. Fun times.

That's an interesting set, though. The lack of Not Unlike The Waves in both lists is disheartening.

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Originally Posted by aethernox

They didn't just "stop" after Bloodbirds, but it's not like what happened afterwards was actually "The Grain." They just ****ed around with their pedals and amps while John started using the stage props (his incense burners, deer hooves, etc) on his guitar. It was good, though. Fun times.

That's an interesting set, though. The lack of Not Unlike The Waves in both lists is disheartening.

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Yeah, that's what they did here, too. Even though it wasn't actually 'The Grain', what Agalloch played after II served the same purpose musically, so I took it as a new (playable live) take on the idea and thus counted it as 'The Grain' when I added the show to setlist.fm. But seeing as how setlist.fm automatically put a 'First time ever played live' caption under it, I suppose no user on that site has interpreted it that way before... *shrug*

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Originally Posted by eyeofsaulot

Equally absurd statements.

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NEVER

God the productions on Anthems and Prometheus are so terrible. And just... Ihsahn got too big for his breeches with Emperor after the first album and few EPs.

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Originally Posted by eyeofsaulot

Yeah, that's what they did here, too. Even though it wasn't actually 'The Grain', what Agalloch played after II served the same purpose musically, so I took it as a new (playable live) take on the idea and thus counted it as 'The Grain' when I added the show to setlist.fm. But seeing as how setlist.fm automatically put a 'First time ever played live' caption under it, I suppose no user on that site has interpreted it that way before... *shrug*

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Yeah, I get you. The thing is, I'm under the impression that the set ends that way regardless of whether the last song they play is Bloodbirds. The same basic principles apply when they play something like The Lodge (Dismantled), I would assume, so I just forwent trying to label it as an actual composition.

Edit:
Also. Faulty, I would suggest that Drone is less metal than Black Metal, but that's just nitpicking. Your point as a whole seems solid.

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Originally Posted by aethernox

Edit:
Also. Faulty, I would suggest that Drone is less metal than Black Metal, but that's just nitpicking. Your point as a whole seems solid.

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Depends on the drone or black metal, so I guess you could say they tie.

Well, yeah. There exists very minimalist drone and very metal black metal, and the reverse is true. The distinction isn't especially important, I was just mentioning.

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Originally Posted by aethernox

Well, yeah. There exists very minimalist drone and very metal black metal, and the reverse is true. The distinction isn't especially important, I was just mentioning.

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I actually thought about it afterwards, so I appreciate you bringing it up.

Whatevs though. Synth Pop > all metal anyway.

A couple of other notes on Agalloch:
Unfortunately, Saulot, it doesn't appear that they've ever played The White live. Not under normal circumstances, at least. It makes sense, given that neither Aesop nor JWW actually contributed to the album AFAIK.

Also, it looks like Godspit is attending the final show of the tour. :3

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Originally Posted by Faulty

Whatevs though. Synth Pop > all metal anyway.

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Totes.

This thread has pretty much run its course, anyways. Let's just scrap it in favor of greener pastures.

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Originally Posted by aethernox

This thread has pretty much run its course, anyways. Let's just scrap it in favor of greener pastures.

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Duty toward the thread forces me to post a link to this version.
(but the original is better)

so after listening to wood of ypres today... is it just me or do they sound A LOT like heidevolk?

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Originally Posted by aethernox

Yeah, I get you. The thing is, I'm under the impression that the set ends that way regardless of whether the last song they play is Bloodbirds. The same basic principles apply when they play something like The Lodge (Dismantled), I would assume, so I just forwent trying to label it as an actual composition.

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Hm, that's a good point. Oh well, I'm leaving it how it is.

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Originally Posted by aethernox

A couple of other notes on Agalloch:
Unfortunately, Saulot, it doesn't appear that they've ever played The White live. Not under normal circumstances, at least. It makes sense, given that neither Aesop nor JWW actually contributed to the album AFAIK.

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Maybe one day they'll do an all acoustic tour and play The White, "A Desolation Song", and the like. "Tomorrow Will Never Come" would be interesting to hear live. thisisneverhappening...

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Originally Posted by Killer Angel

Duty toward the thread forces me to post a link to this version.
(but the original is better)

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THEY KNOW MY WEAKNESSEEEESSSS!!!

Is The White their neofolk EP? @_@

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Originally Posted by Killer Angel

Duty toward the thread forces me to post a link to this version.

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What's happening? Is this real life? :smallfrown:

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Originally Posted by Faulty

Is The White their neofolk EP? @_@

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Yup.

Alright, if anyone is wondering where I've been - or even if (which is far more likely) my two-page absence hasn't troubled you in the slightest - I went on a Pink Floyd binge for a little while. It was awesome, but doesn't belong here, so lets move onto some new metal I've been listening to.

Okay, so new is an overstatement... considering most of this is more on the 'not new by any reasonable measurement of time when contrasted to the short history of heavy metal' side of things, but still.

Nuclear Assault. Only listened to one of their albums so far, but it's solid crossover-ish thrash. The punk influences work well, but they're not overwhelming.

Vio-Lence!! How could I not have heard of these guys before? Eternal Nightmare is a kick*** album from start to finish, riffs everywhere, it's beautiful. Can't believe someone who had been in a band like this would ever even think to associate themselves with Machine Head. Ugh.


If you're not into Thrash, why not try out some Riot? I know, they're classic, but I'd never listened to Thundersteel, and it is a great album. It's all some variation of traditional heavy metal, but there's plenty of diversity. The songs can range from an almost Rainbow/Black Sabbath (Dio era) feel to a super-catchy, almost glam ballad. I said ALMOST glam.

I'm sure Faulty will mock me, but I'd never listened to Tormentor before, and they're awesome. I found out about them from Fenriz - for those of you who don't know who that is, shame on you. SHAME. He mentioned them in this video where he explains the history of Black Metal. It's a two parter, and as much as he is a talented musician, he's not a great public speaker, so he'll ramble. Not an exhilarating video by any means, but interesting to see the perspective of someone who was in the midst of the second wave of Black Metal. I also like how he draws his lower case 't's as inverted crosses. It makes me a little giddy *lets out a little fangirl-ish scream.* Err, I mean it's as frosty as a December evening in Svalbard (look it up). During an ice age. Anyway...


"Hey, hasn't it been long enough since you last recommended a thrash band" You ask? No? That's not what you asked? Well either way, that reminds me of a thrash band I haven't mentioned yet. Heathen. I had mixed feelings about them, they're songs can sometimes drag on a bit, but if you want some solid midpaced thrash with good vocals, then these guys are for you.

Finally, after reading incredibly favorable reviews, I listened to Lizzy Borden. You may notice that, unlike the other bands I've mentioned, I didn't link to a Lizzy Borden song. That is because I am a mercyful human being. Actually it's because I'd be embarrassed to have one of their songs show up in my browser history ever again. The album I listened to was pure, cheesy, unoriginal glam metal. And it sucked. There, I finished this ridiculously long post on a downer. What now?


TL;DR version: It's 2 in the morning and I can't sleep so I went on an incoherent rant. You can click on the links and ignore the rest. It's mostly senseless, borderline-senile rambling anyway. Except ignore the word 'mostly.' And 'borderline.'

Hey thur. I've never listened to Tormentor, though I know of them, so feel free to mock me. :smalltongue: I love Fenriz's Satanic cross 't's. He's so ****ing adorable, I love that guy.

Do you, by any chance, have the Panzerfaust digipak? It comes with a bonus CD that is the entire album but with a Fenriz voice over commentary. It's pretty informative and interesting. Fenriz knows a lot about music and is quite funny, intentionally or not.

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Originally Posted by Faulty

Hey thur. I've never listened to Tormentor, though I know of them, so feel free to mock me. :smalltongue: I love Fenriz's Satanic cross 't's. He's so ****ing adorable, I love that guy.

Do you, by any chance, have the Panzerfaust digipak? It comes with a bonus CD that is the entire album but with a Fenriz voice over commentary. It's pretty informative and interesting. Fenriz knows a lot about music and is quite funny, intentionally or not.

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:smallconfused:

...So you're saying there is such a thing as a Black Metal band that you hadn't listened to? And I had? My whole world has just been turned upside down... :smalltongue:

And I don't have the Panzerfaust Digipak. I was at a metal record store in New York - Which, coming from Winnipeg where you can't find anything more obscure than Amon Amarth, was incredible - and I was literally about to take the Panzerfaust Digipak, but ended up choosing not to for some reason. Either way, I still bought Transylvanian Hunger, just to support the band (and because it makes for some frost-bitten drives to school in the morning). I didn't realize he did a commentary though, I'll see if I can get my hands on it now...

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Originally Posted by Killer Angel

Duty toward the thread forces me to post a link to this version.

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x.x

The funny thing about this thread. Metal makes up maybe 15% of the music I listen to, but when I do, it sounds like this or this or this. So when I hear something like Lacuna Coil or Korpliklaani or what have you, it never really registers as metal until I think about it for a moment...

Speaking of, after listening to a lot of modern psychadelic rock in the last week or two, and then going back and listening to some stoner metal, I was amazed by how much the genres overlap. Anyone know any good stuff that occupies that border, as it were?

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Originally Posted by cleric_of_BANJO

:smallconfused:

...So you're saying there is such a thing as a Black Metal band that you hadn't listened to? And I had? My whole world has just been turned upside down... :smalltongue:

And I don't have the Panzerfaust Digipak. I was at a metal record store in New York - Which, coming from Winnipeg where you can't find anything more obscure than Amon Amarth, was incredible - and I was literally about to take the Panzerfaust Digipak, but ended up choosing not to for some reason. Either way, I still bought Transylvanian Hunger, just to support the band (and because it makes for some frost-bitten drives to school in the morning). I didn't realize he did a commentary though, I'll see if I can get my hands on it now...

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I KNOW RIGHT? MIND BLOWN

Anyway, I bought mine off Hells Headbangers website. Might want to check there. Or Amazon.com if you can.

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Originally Posted by Faulty

I KNOW RIGHT? MIND BLOWN

Anyway, I bought mine off Hells Headbangers website. Might want to check there. Or Amazon.com if you can.

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Yeah, the problem is that, being in Canada, anything I order from amazon, or really any US-based website, gets significantly more expensive after shipping charges... Not astronomical, but I'd rather not have to pay extra. And while I do feel bad about downloading music, I don't feel THAT bad about it. So I usually just get music online, and then when I have the chance, buy albums from bands I respect enough to support. Like Darkthrone.

hmmm, I vaguely remember a discussion about whether or not illegally downloading albums (or legally, as it is in Canada) is permissible in one of the earlier iterations of the metal thread... don't think we ever reached a conclusion:smalltongue:

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Originally Posted by Moff Chumley

x.x

The funny thing about this thread. Metal makes up maybe 15% of the music I listen to, but when I do, it sounds like this or this or this. So when I hear something like Lacuna Coil or Korpliklaani or what have you, it never really registers as metal until I think about it for a moment...

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I was perfectly aware of the possible reactions to that link... :smalltongue:

The fact is: for a certain period, after that masterpiece called Velvet darkness they fear (when Theatre of Tragedy was good) I've listened to a good amount of gothic metal, and (to me) Lacuna Coil was tied to songs like this one...