(4e) Power advancement question

So, I'm trying to prepare for my first 4e game and have a question about power advancement. The DMG says "You dont automatically learn new at will powers as you advance, but as you gain levels you can choose to retrain and replace an atw will power you know with a new one."

So I am assuming that you don't end up with a plethora of at-will powers? You can only have as many as the Character Advancement table tells you that you have each level, you just switch them out?

Does this also apply for Encounter, Daily, and Utility powers? It dosen't say so, but I would assume so.

Can anybody give me a quick run down of how this system works? Thanks : )

At level one you have 2 level one at-will attack powers, unless your class or race says other-wise. There are no higher level at-will attack powers in the game. However, if you want a different level 1 at-will, you can swap it with another when you level up per the retraining rules.

Encounters and dailies - at first, you only have 1 of each, as you level up, you gain more, and at some levels, instead of gaining a new one, you swap out an old one for a new one.

Utilities - when you get a utility, you have it forever unless you retrain it at a level-up. Utilities can be at-will, encounter, or daily, but they do not count against the limit of how many at-will, encounter, or daily powers you can have, because utilities are not attack powers.

EDIT: An explanation of the Retraining system: Any time you gain a level, you may swap out any ONE feat or power for any other that you qualify for of the same category. So, you can swap your level 3 encounter power for any other level 3 or lower encounter power, for example. You ARE explicitly allowed to swap heroic feats for paragon or epic once you are in the appropriate tier, but this uses up your 1 retraining for the level as usual.

You start with 2 (3 if human) at will powers. You can change them out when you level up but you never effectively get more of them.

For encounter, dailey and Utility powers you get more as you level up and can occasionally trade a higher level power for a lower level power.

Just read the chart for level advancement carefully, it's all there. :smallsmile:

So I always "know" all of the encounter and daily powers that I acquire, they don't have to be prepared? Meaning every encounter I can choose to use any power from the entire list of encounter powers I have accumulated? And same for daily?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozreth

So I always "know" all of the encounter and daily powers that I acquire, they don't have to be prepared? Meaning every encounter I can choose to use any power from the entire list of encounter powers I have accumulated? And same for daily?

---

Yes, but you only actually know one encounter, daily, or utility from each level in which it is gained. Wizards do have a special ability that allows the choice of multiple dailies that you can prepare, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Behold_the_Void

Yes, but you only actually know one encounter, daily, or utility from each level in which it is gained. Wizards do have a special ability that allows the choice of multiple dailies that you can prepare, though.

---

But I could use any of my lower level daily, encounter, or utlitiy powers, correct?

The best way to think of it is as a hand of cards.

Whenever you learn a new power, that card goes in your hand.

When you use an at-will, the card is played, and then it stays in your hand.

When you use an encounter or daily, the card is played and then discarded.

At the end of each Short Rest (5 minutes of no fighting), all encounter power cards go back in your hand, ready to be used again.

At the end of each Extended Rest (8 consecutive hours of rest), all encounter and daily power cards go back in your hand, ready to be used again.

EDIT: In fact, a lot of players actually do write/print out cards and use them in this way to track their powers. The character builder from DND insider has a nice thing to help you make cards.

EDIT: Sorry, extended rest is 6, not 8, as outlined below. Just used to thinking of it as 8, not sure why....

OK. Here we go.

When you're level one you pick your At-Wills. You only get two, unless you're human. That's it. You never get more.

You then pick your level 1 Encounter. Meaning you choose one of the Level 1 Encounter powers and add it to your memory bank. That's the only one you know. You don't get to pick and choose each time you go into combat, or each time you rest. You just choose it and that's the one you know. Kind of like sorcerer spells in 3.5. You just know it from now on. You then pick a Level 1 Daily and it works the same way.

Now, we've reached level 2. So you pick a level 2 Utility power. And now you know that power just like the other. Now, a Utility power might be an At-Will, Daily, or Encounter; this simply tells you how often you can use it. That's it. It doesn't count for anything else.

Now we've reached level 3. You may now pick a Level 3 Encounter power and add it to your "suite" of powers. It doesn't replace your level 1 or anything, you just gained yet another one.

So, at this point you have 2 (3 if you're human) At-Wills. A Level 1 Encounter, a level 1 Daily, a level 2 Utility, and a fresh new level 3 Encounter.

Retraining (or re-learning) Every level you may choose to retrain a feat, or a power. You simply ditch the old one and add the new. It must be the same type and level. So if you've played a few sessions and don't like the new level 3 Encounter, you can swap it for a new level 3 Encounter. If you've played a while and don't like one of the At-Wills you've chosen, swap it out for a new one.

Replacing. Once you've hit higher levels you'll start actually replacing powers with higher level ones. So at this point, you'll ditch your level 1 Encounter for good and replace it with a level 13 Encounter power.

So you don't "know" every power in the lists of powers for each level. You choose one to "memorize" or add to your "suite". Most people use index cards or power cards to visualize the "deck of cards" that Edge of Dreams was refferring too.


Clear things up?

2 at wills
4 encounters
4 dailies
7 utilities

that's what most characters should have by level 30, disregarding racial, class, path, destiny & feat based powers.

once your high level enough learn your 5th encounter or daily you have the option to replace one of your 4 lower level ones with the newer one. if none seem immediately applicable for your character, you can just wait and retrain it later. when you learn your 6th enc or daily, you again have the option to replace one of your 4 lower level ones with the newer ones, ect...

those that you do gain by virtue of race (like the human bonus @will), class (like the swordmage's warding), path & destiny or your feat based powers (wizard multi-class for example) do not count towards the 2/4/4/7 spread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edge of Dreams

At the end of each Extended Rest (8 consecutive hours of rest), all encounter and daily power cards go back in your hand, ready to be used again.

---

PHB page 264: an extended rest is 6 hours long.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tcrudisi

PHB page 264: an extended rest is 6 hours long.

---

At least 6 hours, but in practice it tends to be longer since each player needs their 6 and you do want to keep watch right?

Perfect! Thank you all so much, you couldn't have been more helpful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozreth

So I always "know" all of the encounter and daily powers that I acquire, they don't have to be prepared? Meaning every encounter I can choose to use any power from the entire list of encounter powers I have accumulated? And same for daily?

---

Wizards have preparation of daily powers. Some other feats allow for preparation of encounter powers.

But, by default, every encounter power you know can be each used 1/encounter.

And every daily power you know can be used each 1/day.

Your list of encounter attack powers starts off with 1 class power, 2 at level 3, 3 at level 7. At level 11 you gain a paragon path encounter attack power. From then on, you generally replace encounter attack powers with stronger ones, instead of learning new ones (at level 13/17/23/27).

Similarly, your daily attack power count starts at 1 at level 1, then ups to 2 at level 5, 3 at level 9. At level 20 you gain a paragon path daily attack power. At level 15/19/25/29 you replace lower level daily attack powers with higher level ones.

Utility powers, meanwhile, just accumulate. You gain one at 2/6/10/12 (paragon path)/16/22/26 (epic destiny). (I might have gotten the last two backwards).

Each of the powers can be used 1/encounter or 1/day or at-will. Barring a special exception (like the wizard spellbook), there is no preparation of powers.

When you retrain powers, you don't get to "upgrade" them, unless it is at once of the special "replace" points above (which isn't retraining).

Things you replace or retrain you no longer know. If you replace a power at level 13, you don't get to use the old level 1 power that you replaced.

Psions and Ardents from PHB3 are different, though... but we won't confuse you if you don't have DDI. :smallwink:

I don't mean to be more confusing, but another specific instance that trumps the above generalizations, is the druid. They can use three at-wills instead of just two, but one of these must be a [wildshape] at-will.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DabblerWizard

I don't mean to be more confusing, but another specific instance that trumps the above generalizations, is the druid. They can use three at-wills instead of just two, but one of these must be a [wildshape] at-will.

---

Correction, [Beast Form]. :smallwink:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DabblerWizard

I don't mean to be more confusing, but another specific instance that trumps the above generalizations, is the druid. They can use three at-wills instead of just two, but one of these must be a [wildshape] at-will.

---

Humans get an extra one as well. So a human druid would have 4 at-wills. Also more specifically, the rule for druids is, that the number of at-wills with Beast Form keyword must be one or two. In other words, a balance between the power usable in the Beast and normal/"human" forms.