Our Time Loop is Different: The Awesomeness that is "Mother of Learning"

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Originally Posted by My favorite quote

"Well, you mentioned last time how I keep up a mind blank around you at all times and how it means I don't trust you…"

"You don't have to apologize for that," Zorian told him, shaking his head. "I also told you I would have done the same in your place, remember?"

"No offense, but I don't want to be like you, Zorian," Zach said, shaking his head. Well screw you too, Zach! The feeling was mutual!

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It is so moving. Both Zorian and Zack disgusted at idea of following each other philosophy but still managed to become friend. And they both are ready to risk their lives to protect each other.

glad someone necro-posted on here, read the premise of the story on the first post and checked it out, instantly hooked! Just started the first reset, looking forward to how things change and what-not :).

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Originally Posted by Starwulf

glad someone necro-posted on here, read the premise of the story on the first post and checked it out, instantly hooked! Just started the first reset, looking forward to how things change and what-not :).

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You have a long and entertaining read ahead of you. Zorian in the latest chapters is almost unrecognizable from how he was in the beginning, but the entire journey in between is very well done.

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Originally Posted by Douglas

You have a long and entertaining read ahead of you. Zorian in the latest chapters is almost unrecognizable from how he was in the beginning, but the entire journey in between is very well done.

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Up to chapter 21, and now have a suspicion regarding

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The third Time Traveler. Admittedly it would be a pretty obvious choice for the author to make, and this author seems to have a bit more skill than that, but yeah, I'd totally pick Benisek? Zorian's merchant friend that is a major gossip. It certainly makes sense, and I hope Zorian begins to suspect before he gives something away to him.

Anyways, absolutely loving the story thus far. Mildly annoyed that the author seems to have made it clear that

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Zorians mana pool won't grow as large as Zach's, but Zorian seems to be infinitely more intelligent than Zach, so that should bridge the gap between their power. Though...with a bit of Zach's soul melded to Zorian's, it's possible his mana pool will grow larger than initially expected, certainly.

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Originally Posted by Starwulf

Up to chapter 21, and now have a suspicion regarding

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The third Time Traveler. Admittedly it would be a pretty obvious choice for the author to make, and this author seems to have a bit more skill than that, but yeah, I'd totally pick Benisek? Zorian's merchant friend that is a major gossip. It certainly makes sense, and I hope Zorian begins to suspect before he gives something away to him.

Anyways, absolutely loving the story thus far. Mildly annoyed that the author seems to have made it clear that

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Zorians mana pool won't grow as large as Zach's, but Zorian seems to be infinitely more intelligent than Zach, so that should bridge the gap between their power. Though...with a bit of Zach's soul melded to Zorian's, it's possible his mana pool will grow larger than initially expected, certainly.

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I'm curious, why Benisek?

Zach is the incredible combat juggernaught, while Zorian is more of an esoteric specialist, especially with his natural talent for mind magic. They both end up far above the norm in all kinds of magic capabilities, though.

And then there's Quatach-Ichl, the guy who's had a millenium to gather secret knowledge and hone his skills, though admittedly without the exploitative techniques the time loop makes possible.

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Originally Posted by Douglas

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I'm curious, why Benisek?

Zach is the incredible combat juggernaught, while Zorian is more of an esoteric specialist, especially with his natural talent for mind magic. They both end up far above the norm in all kinds of magic capabilities, though.

And then there's Quatach-Ichl, the guy who's had a millenium to gather secret knowledge and hone his skills, though admittedly without the exploitative techniques the time loop makes possible.

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If I'm not mistaken, it seems like everyone else's actions are more or less set on repeat as long as nothing significant changes, but Benisek iirc was out of place very, very early on, before Zorian started significantly changing his actions. That, and just an odd suspicion, though I'm not sure anymore, since Zorian has begun not going to the Academy, instead opting to roam around trying to find the people Kael suggested, and if it was Benisek that would be a very clear indication that Zorian is the time traveler and he'd have already killed Zorian and his entire family with that soul-cleaving technique(I'm with Zorian, I don't think the Aranea are dead(i really hope not! I like them!), just think their souls are cleaved from their bodies at the start of each loop, I can see Zorian eventually figuring out how to restore them)

In many ways, Zorian is the Batman to Zach's Superman.

I am officially curious as to just how strong

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Xvim is. If he practices what he preaches(and I'm thinking he probably does) he has hundreds of shaping exercises completely mastered, which gives him the ability to do all sorts of **** with a multitude of spells and has enough mind magic shaping exercises mastered that he has an immensely powerful(albeit simplistic as Zorian proved) mind-shield. All of this seems to point towards him being some kind of arch-mage. Question is, where the hell is that d-bag on the night of the invasion? The author has yet to every make mention of Xvim taking part in the counter-attack against the invaders, usually just Xyron(sp?) and other teachers.

. Anyways, up to chapter 43 now, still loving it, probably even more now that Zorian is starting to really shape up into something amazing :).

Any clue on how often the author updates? Just wondering how often I'll have to check back on the story once I'm all caught up.

There's usually a new chapter about every 3 or 4 weeks.

As for Xvim

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He's not the type to attend most school social events, so he may just never have been where Zorian could see. And yes, he most definitely practices what he preaches. He's one of my favorite characters.

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Originally Posted by Douglas

As for Xvim

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He's not the type to attend most school social events, so he may just never have been where Zorian could see. And yes, he most definitely practices what he preaches. He's one of my favorite characters.

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Oh yea, Xvim owns what is my favorite moment in the series. When he just casually backhands a ball of pure death launched by an epic lich who otherwise has just spanked Zach and Zorians whole posse. Even QI had to stop for a second to process the sheer awsome.

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Originally Posted by Dragonus45

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Oh yea, Xvim owns what is my favorite moment in the series. When he just casually backhands a ball of pure death launched by an epic lich who otherwise has just spanked Zach and Zorians whole posse. Even QI had to stop for a second to process the sheer awsome.

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I just read that last night :) Was pretty epic!

I have to say, it's a shame that

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Quatal whatever the bleck is a lich, because otherwise they could just sick that damn Grey Hunter spider against him. I mean, even with Zach that thing is tough! Can't say I quite expected that. Funny thing is, I was going to come back here and ask if Zorian ever went and tangled with it again, but decided against it, and just a chapter later, poof! There it is :). Sad that they only have 40 resets left to go though, that's really not a lot of time left for poor Zorian, at least compared to Zach who has had decades. Of course, Zach's the reason WHY there is so little time left. All those restarts he wasted by dying early on to stupid like(like that dragon)....yeesh. They'd have several decades left otherwise, which honestly would have been damn useful since now they have to find the 5 keys which are likely scattered all across the world.

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Originally Posted by Starwulf

Of course, Zach's the reason WHY there is so little time left.

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I believe Zach is not guilty. It's all master's choice. The initial action could happen at any time. It is just a random event. And master deliberately set up time for it. So Zorian could face appropriate challenge. If Zorian has less time, he could not gain enough experience to take part in the final battle. If Zorian has extra 5 years inside the loop he could trivialize the encounter. With enough time he could fish more information from Quatach-Ichl. Given enough trials-and-errors he could find way to inform authority without revealing his identity. He could find exact nature of protection charms of Iasku Mansion and develop specific magic items to ruin the charms. He even could find Quatach-Ichl's phylactery. So master just gave Zorian enough time to grow himself but not enough to extract crucial information.

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Originally Posted by Starwulf

I just read that last night :) Was pretty epic!

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Never underestimate mana shaping!

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Originally Posted by Starwulf

I have to say, it's a shame that

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Quatal whatever the bleck is a lich, because otherwise they could just sick that damn Grey Hunter spider against him. I mean, even with Zach that thing is tough! Can't say I quite expected that. Funny thing is, I was going to come back here and ask if Zorian ever went and tangled with it again, but decided against it, and just a chapter later, poof! There it is :). Sad that they only have 40 resets left to go though, that's really not a lot of time left for poor Zorian, at least compared to Zach who has had decades. Of course, Zach's the reason WHY there is so little time left. All those restarts he wasted by dying early on to stupid like(like that dragon)....yeesh. They'd have several decades left otherwise, which honestly would have been damn useful since now they have to find the 5 keys which are likely scattered all across the world.

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But if Zach handles things differently enough for that to matter then the strange confluence of events that lead to Zorian entering the loop might never have happened. And Zorian was just exactly the right person for busting open the plot.

So I’ve been thinking about various little hints dropped about Zorian’s life while doing a reread myself, and I’ve noticed that there are a bunch of potential interesting bits that never got followed up on. Like what his bad experience with the cops was. There were others but that was the one that stuck out to me and I was wondering if I missed when it got followed up on.

Absolutely loving where the story is going :). Them finding out the truth behind the time loops, their ever more accelerated growth,

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Them FINALLY taking out that stupid spider, and then nearly losing to a plant, LOLOL, Silverlake's antics, the fact that Alanic used to be a necromancer(I mildly suspected, but was nowhere near certain). It's all awesome :)

Also, now that we know that Red Robe has exited the time loop, and likely did very shortly after he tried to ambush Zach at the start of a reset, all of that has me back to thinking it might be Benisek. Still just a hunch and all that, but I can't shake it.

Frustrated that Zorian and Tavien didn't kiss ><. I really want them to develop romantic feelings for each other at same point!

I figured out it was the Lich that came to their table in the tavern almost immediately, something about the name reminded me of him, and when he said "my old alias" I was 100%. I am worried that Silverlake didn't "alert him" because of spying, but instead alerted him because she's his ally, given the fact that she's indicated she's in the triple digits for age, and not likely the 100's or 200's from the way she made it seem. I mean, she's already helped one necromancer(even if that person didn't stay one), I see no reason why she wouldn't ally herself with another one that's quite her senior and likely could teach her many, many things. Plus those "indecipherable" bits that she's storing inside her "memory packets" scare me, I feel like she's gathering information on them in order to screw them over, not just out of curiosity.

Glad Zorian finally got his confrontation with Damien and they seem to have buried the hatchet between themselves

Oh btw, Zorians issue with the cops is from him being arrested(taken into custody at least) by them as a child because he was seen picking the locks to get back into his house when Damien locked him outside.

I really doubt Red Robe could be one of Z&Z classmates. Red Robe is definitely aggressive towards Zorian, he tried to "soul-kill" him. If Red Robe was a classmate he could easily calculate Zorian identity and assault him. Zorian is still alive therefore Red Robe is not a someone he contacts regularly.

"We have been outsmarted and nearly killed by a flower. We are never speaking about this again."
:smallamused:

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Originally Posted by ayvango

I really doubt Red Robe could be one of Z&Z classmates. Red Robe is definitely aggressive towards Zorian, he tried to "soul-kill" him. If Red Robe was a classmate he could easily calculate Zorian identity and assault him. Zorian is still alive therefore Red Robe is not a someone he contacts regularly.

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Yeah, I think if Red Robe were anyone who actually knew Zorian, he would have noticed by the point of the Aranea massacre that Zorian's activities have been varying from one reset to another without the difference being caused by RR's or Zach's actions. That by itself would have given away that Zorian is another looper, and RR would have killed him in his sleep.

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Originally Posted by Starwulf

Oh btw, Zorians issue with the cops is from him being arrested(taken into custody at least) by them as a child because he was seen picking the locks to get back into his house when Damien locked him outside.

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Read the story like 4 times now and I went right past that little detail.

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Originally Posted by Dragonus45

Read the story like 4 times now and I went right past that little detail.

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I'm sure I've done the same, it's such a complex story with so many different threads going on, it's easy to miss something so minor.

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I'm glad that the reason for Zorian being stabbed through the chest has been resolved finally, It's been bugging me for a while now as to why he was targeted so early on. Damn cranium rats in the walls!

Also, can't say I'm surprised that the Lich betrayed them, but I am surprised he figured out what the hell was going on so quickly in regards to the time loop with so little information. That exploding soul attack of his was pretty damn nasty though, thank god Zorian is ultra paranoid or that would have been the end of both of them with that attack. Hopefully he doesn't figure it out on future restarts, since they are now actively interacting with him and learning from him.

I guess it's a good point that RR is unlikely to be a classmate. While Zorian wasn't varying wildly at that point, he was varying enough that Benisek, who is clearly a major gossip, would surely have pieced things together rather quickly and soul-killed him!

Very sad, I only had 13 chapters left before I'm caught up :-(. This is an amazing story, very well written. I love time-loop stories where the protags become powerful, but not absurdly fast. I like reading about the training they do and slowly learning more about themselves and the world around them, and this story is an amazing example of such. If anyone has another story that's even remotely close to being on this level, I'd love to have the recommendation :).

Finished!

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Spoiler: Zach and Zori escape a time loop!

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Sorry, I've been wanting to make that reference for quite a while, was just waiting until I got to the point where they did actually escape the time loop.

So, thoughts! Sad that none of the temporary loopers managed to escape with Zorian. I was hoping at least Xvim or Alanic would, or maybe Damien at the least(All 3 have significant contributions they could make if they retained their memories from those 6 restarts(more like a year and a half given all the Black room shenanigans, including the 5 months they got from the imperial orb!).

I was surprised that there was actually a function built into the Sovereign Gate specifically meant to stop temporary loopers from escaping into the real world. It clearly wasn't Panaxeth imitating the Guardian, since Panaxeth was already there trying to stop them. Whoever initially designed the Guardian and this method of time looping must have either been one of the smartest people in the history of the world, or had a ton of help in order to foresee/account for so many variables.

Guardian sucks. Literally tricked them into gathering the key just so he could stop Zorian from looping. Another insane detail by whoever designed the Sovereign Gate. I imagine if the gate wasn't so old, such a thing as Zorians situation would never have been allowed to happen in the first place, he'd have been wiped from the loop after his first restart.

What is this "pokeball" you guys keep referring to? I must have missed this in the last few chapters, which is frustrating, since it appears to be a pretty major detail, especially if points to him capturing the Grey Hunter spider and either setting it against the invaders(heh, damn thing is just as dangerous the Hydra I'm pretty sure, though obviously in different ways), or somehow becoming a shifter through some kind of blood magic ritual. OOOOOH, wait, nevermind, you all are referencing the ball that Novelty touched and Zorian immediately levitated her away from it! I guess I kinda filed that away as inconsequential from some reason, not sure why though ><.

So, Red Robe is not Veyers(and definitely not Benisek!!! rofl), but instead Jornak! I have to admit, I should have(but didn't) put two and two together when Zach said he observed Silverlake and Zorian when the loop restarted after there escape together, and said that both of them were completely back to their original selves. They suspected Jornak for a while(or at least Zorian did), and with the additional information Zach supplied, it should have been clear that the Jornak they were talking to before wouldn't have any memories they could capitalize on.

Man, that heavenly contract is going to be annoying to circumvent, but, as the rest of you, I'm pretty sure that giant telepathic relay Zorian is inscribing all over the city is going to come into play and show Zach an illusion of all the time travelers dying so that it satisfies the conditions of the contract and thus dispelling it as complete. I also think it's going to be a major part of their over-all victory, if he can use it to attack all of the invaders minds at once with his full power it will basically halt the invasion in it's tracks, possibly even giving him the chance to disable RR long enough to get him to dispose of the Wraith Bomb switch.

I'm still holding out a slim hope that the lich will halt his part in the invasion, though at this point I realize it's an incredibly large long-shot.

It is a shame that the Imperial Orb doesn't contain all the memories implanted into it from the time loop. I was kind of hoping that even though they didn't get to bring it with them(since they had to use it to make the bridge into the real world), that it's divine properties would allow it to retain the memories implanted into it from the loop anyways ><.

By the way, just in case this is an unknown, if you click on the authors name to go to his bio, he always gives his expected release date for the next chapter(Currently, June 2nd!). Also, he has a wordpress page(https://motheroflearninguniverse.wordpress.com/) and somewhere on there he mentions that as of chapter 91 the story only had 9-10 more chapters left, so the next update or the one after it are likely to be the end of the story! Accordingly, I imagine these last chapter/s are likely to be pretty large in size compared to previous ones since it does feel like he has a decent amount of stuff left to wrap up!

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Originally Posted by Starwulf

Finished!

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So, Red Robe is not Veyers(and definitely not Benisek!!! rofl), but instead Jornak!

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We are not certain RR is actually Jornak. All we know for sure is that RR refused to identify as Veyers. RR still could be Veyers that used face of Jornak. Or any other that switched faces twice. Silverlake ask Panaxeth for youth as price. RR could trade his service for face-shifting ability. There was suspicious girl near Zach in early chapters which identity was not disclosed yet.

Strategic thought:

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One key to victory may lie in the tensions between the multiple antagonists since Red Robe would seem to have got a lot of people working together who don't like each other at all.
- QI doesn't care for RR's grand ambitions, and holds the cultists in contempt. Given the new threat to himself posed by their summoning the primordial, he might even sabotage this action mid-invasion
- Surely nobody among the antagonists would be foolish enough to like or trust Silverlake
- Whatever RR did to get Oganj's token, the dragon is unlikely to be a friend of anyone human. He also might be turned against the invaders quite easily if presented with selective evidence of what Sudomir's been up to. Basing himself in the northern wilderness; splicing a dragon with a troll and three other creatures for a shifting experiment on himself; making an undead monstrosity out of either this or another dragon... persuading Oganj and his group to destroy S and his whole mansion might not be exactly difficult. And Zach might know enough about the dragons from the time loop to initiate communication that way. The only one on RR's side who might have the power to stand in Oganj's way would be QI, and why would he? Especially if Oganj could be persuaded to strike near to the time of the main invasion
- Meanwhile, even a short term notification of various authorities to the threats they face, especially if there's any way the wraith bombs could be found and neutralised, could lead to a significant response.

I advise you to read A Night in Lonesome October for a referential implementation of tension and betrayal strategy. In a sense both books share the same main event theme of fighting between good and evil for bringing kind of apocalypse and new world order on a very specific date.

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Originally Posted by ayvango

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We are not certain RR is actually Jornak. All we know for sure is that RR refused to identify as Veyers. RR still could be Veyers that used face of Jornak. Or any other that switched faces twice. Silverlake ask Panaxeth for youth as price. RR could trade his service for face-shifting ability. There was suspicious girl near Zach in early chapters which identity was not disclosed yet.

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Veyers is extremely unlikely for the reasons that Zorian identified in the story. If RR really was Veyers using a triple deception it would require an as of yet unknown mechanic of the time loop. Given that the time loop has ended and we are in the endgame now, it is unlikely that such a new element would be introduced into the story for no apparent gain (does it really matter for the plot if it is Veyers or Jornak? They are both mostly unknown characters)

Some other speculation on what might come next:

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Who else thinks that lichdom is on the table for Zorian? It was always kind of an afterthought throughout the story, for example when he started to get into soul magic and simulacrums it was mentioned that these were necessary steps to becoming a lich. I noticed that in the past few chapters there were several reminders on the benefits of lichdom, especially for risk averse persons like Zorian. That does not seem like a coincidence to come up close to a high stakes climatic battle.

Also, let's be honest: Living forever is something that Zorian would totally want, while the drawbacks of being (un)dead do not seem that severe for a person like him.

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Originally Posted by Seppl

Some other speculation on what might come next:

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Who else thinks that lichdom is on the table for Zorian? It was always kind of an afterthought throughout the story, for example when he started to get into soul magic and simulacrums it was mentioned that these were necessary steps to becoming a lich. I noticed that in the past few chapters there were several reminders on the benefits of lichdom, especially for risk averse persons like Zorian. That does not seem like a coincidence to come up close to a high stakes climatic battle.

Also, let's be honest: Living forever is something that Zorian would totally want, while the drawbacks of being (un)dead do not seem that severe for a person like him.

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Makes more sense to me than the Grey Hunter Shifter idea.

Zorian might even be able to "die" this way to get around the restriction on survivors with knowledge of the time loop

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Originally Posted by paddyfool

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Makes more sense to me than the Grey Hunter Shifter idea.

Zorian might even be able to "die" this way to get around the restriction on survivors with knowledge of the time loop

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As I was reading the new posts, I got to seppl's post and idea about lichdom and immediately had the same thought as you, that it would circumvent Zach's contracts need for Zorian to die. And yeah, it would actually make a fair amount of sense for Zorian, though I believe in an earlier chapter he stated he wanted to have a family at some point? I could be wrong on that, but yeah, it's hard to imagine him wanting to become a Lich so soon in his life before he's had a chance to do any of the "flesh-bag" stuff like get married and have kids.

So no, while I could see it being a thing for Zorian later on in his life(there's nothing stating you can't become a lich when you're 70), I'm going to stick with the idea of the telepathic relay nodes enacting a giant illusion showing everyone dying to Zach to fool the contract.

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Originally Posted by Starwulf

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As I was reading the new posts, I got to seppl's post and idea about lichdom and immediately had the same thought as you, that it would circumvent Zach's contracts need for Zorian to die. And yeah, it would actually make a fair amount of sense for Zorian, though I believe in an earlier chapter he stated he wanted to have a family at some point? I could be wrong on that, but yeah, it's hard to imagine him wanting to become a Lich so soon in his life before he's had a chance to do any of the "flesh-bag" stuff like get married and have kids.

So no, while I could see it being a thing for Zorian later on in his life(there's nothing stating you can't become a lich when you're 70), I'm going to stick with the idea of the telepathic relay nodes enacting a giant illusion showing everyone dying to Zach to fool the contract.

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I agree that using a grand illusion to get around the contract by fooling Zach's perception is almost certainly plan A.

Although I also wouldn't be surprised if those relays saw use in the battle. The potential for both coordinating the defence and disrupting the attack is pretty huge.

Caught up now, looks like it is nearing the finale

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WEll plenty still to do but the days are limited now. Unless it goes on to deal with something after the month is over which it could I guess but not reason to atm. Anyway I hope if he survives, and honestly I expect him to I don't have it pegged as a bitter sweet ending or heroic final sacrifice story, that there will be a super long epilogue (multi chapter ideally though then I guess there won't be a neat clear end), I want to know how he deals with live after the loop and how his relationship to people he interacted with in the loop develops now that there is a future.

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Originally Posted by paddyfool

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Makes more sense to me than the Grey Hunter Shifter idea.

Zorian might even be able to "die" this way to get around the restriction on survivors with knowledge of the time loop

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If you mean circumventing it by nobody alive knowing it, I doubt the angles would miss something as basic as sentient undead in their contract when that is fairly common in the world, and wasn't enemy lich guy already named as someone that knows of the loop and needs to be gone for zach to survive?

If you mean pretend to die but not die because lich that would still need a fair amount of illusion to hide he was a lich wouldn't it? Could happen I suppose but I expect something trickier if the giant illusion plan doesn't work

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About his thoughts about angels not wanting anyone to know about the loop but no way to enforce after the loop, I expect a nasty surprise from that side. Or maybe they are just worried about someone trying to trigger the gate again on the right day if they knew about it and don't care after when the alignment is gone, but nah that is too optimistic.

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Originally Posted by Starwulf

If anyone has another story that's even remotely close to being on this level, I'd love to have the recommendation :).

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Well there is always the obligatory mention of the works of Wildbow, a prolific author of web serials starting with Worm which is a super hero story about how easily it is to become a villain without even meaning to in a world of intense super conflict with a lot going on.

But my big recommendation is Unsong. A very different urban fantasy story that takes a much more Jewish Kabalistic bent for its world, where the first trip to the moon ran smack dab into the shell around the world where it hung in the crystal spheres stuff and now divine energy pours into the world making it very very weird. Aside from being a really great sort of conspiracy thriller about the end of the world it’s also uproariously funny and finished and not terribly long so it makes for a good read.

HPMoR is an icon for fan-fiction. It contains little of rationality to be honest, but plenty of adventuring and plots. Display perfectly why wizard's key ability is INT and how should high-intelligent wizards wage warfare. And gives much more example of how do it wrong and what mistakes should be avoided.

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Originally Posted by ayvango

HPMoR is an icon for fan-fiction.

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It’s uhhh certainly iconic. But after reading a character like Zorian I can only imagine the sneering pseudo intellectual elitism of HPMoR’s Harry to be a letdown. Especially since MoL walks that fine line between presenting magic as something to be studied and understood while also keeping it magical and just a bit mysterious and beyond understanding that HPMoR just sort of says is stupid.