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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Surely the girl behind the Amethest shorts will have a chance to win the award next year, if they are so good. While it is a great shame she loses her chance this year, at least we can see her chance to go further later once DC nation returns. I feel bad for all the producers on DC nation, as I believe they are all furious at Cartoon Network for changing the schedule at the last second
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
Back on point;
Paraphrased;
Quote from Robin
in S1; I don't want to be Batman anymore.
Quote from Batman; I didn't want Robin to turn out like me.
They both sounded deep and meaningful at the time of the episode. But then...Nightwing's actions...Don't quite add up.
I think that is the point. neither Batman or Robin wanted Robin to turn into Batman, but Nightwing's character arc this season seems to be about making those difficult choices and turning into Batman. In fact, I think season 2 will end with
Spoiler
Show
Nightwing being expelled from the Team because no one can trust him, and Season 3 will have Nightwing's character arc based on the fallout of his actions in Season 2
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Which is really weird because that's one of the major things about Nightwing. He ISN'T Batman. Never wen't down that dark path. He's pretty much the most trusted person in the DUC in some ways even moreso than Superman.
When Nightwing calls for aid you can be damn well sure that no one ever questions his motives, pretty much everyone just shows up because... Hell this is Nightwing, and you either watched him grow up or grew up alongside him and know that he's pretty much the best example of what everyone wants in someone being brought into the superhero family.
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Devonix
Which is really weird because that's one of the major things about Nightwing. He ISN'T Batman. Never wen't down that dark path. He's pretty much the most trusted person in the DUC in some ways even moreso than Superman.
When Nightwing calls for aid you can be damn well sure that no one ever questions his motives, pretty much everyone just shows up because... Hell this is Nightwing, and you either watched him grow up or grew up alongside him and know that he's pretty much the best example of what everyone wants in someone being brought into the superhero family.
Except this is Earth-16. While Nightwing is similar to his traditional incarnation, where he is friendly and everyone loves him, he is also in a position his comic incarnation was never in. The key part about his story this season is all the difficult decisions he has to make. There has already been fallout with the end of Darkest, and if you don't think people will have a problem with deceiving the entire superhero community, including Aquaman and Green Arrow; about the fates of Aqualad and Artemis...
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SecondRevan
Except this is Earth-16. While Nightwing is similar to his traditional incarnation, where he is friendly and everyone loves him, he is also in a position his comic incarnation was never in. The key part about his story this season is all the difficult decisions he has to make. There has already been fallout with the end of Darkest, and if you don't think people will have a problem with deceiving the entire superhero community, including Aquaman and Green Arrow; about the fates of Aqualad and Artemis...
Not saying that it's bad or that it shouldn't happen. Just that it's weird. I get that its an AU.
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jayngfet
Man, unless you have a Nielsen box and fit into a specific age range they don't care. There are other, more accurate ways of polling that might include you but they won't use them because it's easier to fudge numbers.
A boycott won't do anything. What needs to happen is an actual, unified effort that forces them to stop this kind of behavior. There are systems out there meant to keep this in check. If you write a letter to Cartoon Network they can ignore it. If you email cited information to their bosses or bosses shareholders, it'll go over their head to people who can't afford to ignore it and something will be done. It's just that nobody seems willing to put the time in to gather the information and get it out there. Over the years it seems like every single fanbase on the entire internet is so atrophied and impotent they aren't actually willing to work for the thing they love.
Sorry for the rant, but I am incredibly bitter. Not just at this, but at the people who allow this to happen literally every time someone gets screwed over by Stuart Snyder.
You know what. Yeah This type of crap with the destruction of G4 and other networks is what drove me away from television. Execs need to learn that This is the problem not Piracy of shows and such. Shows getting screwed over because of personal agendas are bad for the Networks and bad for the fans. I would deffinetly be behind an effort to get Snyder outta there.
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Devonix
You know what. Yeah This type of crap with the destruction of G4 and other networks is what drove me away from television. Execs need to learn that This is the problem not Piracy of shows and such. Shows getting screwed over because of personal agendas are bad for the Networks and bad for the fans. I would deffinetly be behind an effort to get Snyder outta there.
Dude, this weeks Young Justice is already up on pirate sites because Cartoon Network can't co-ordinate this kind of blackout worth ass. It's on itunes now so that means it got ripped off pretty much the moment it went live.
In terms of an actual effort, anybody interested may want to PM me. A plan still needs the specifics hashed out, but if we come together I just may have something in mind.
EDIT: New Information:
Stephanie Brown's voice is listed in an image of the credits being thrown around on the internet. I can't verify from not having seen the episode yet, but this does throw a whole nother wrench into the mix.
I mean we all know the last year or so has been ...unkind... to Stephanie Brown(and Cassandra Cain, and about a dozen others), with DC's editorial trying to force Barbra Gordon back into her role of "the one true batgirl".
While Cartoon Network is still incredibly guilty for doing this, I think it's possible that DC may have pulled some strings for this. I have my reservations that a branch of Time Warner as minor as DC comics financially would be able to have that kind of influence, but it's possible(Though trying to figure out HOW would be baseless speculation).
This doesn't really change anything though. Cartoon Network has pulled this kind of stunt too many times to ignore, and DC has been kicking around character favoritism for as long as Cartoon Network has been screwing over people like this.
DOUBLE EDIT:
Ok, screenshots have been posted. So Stephanie Brown is a definite for appearing in this episode. Which just leaves us wondering if it's actually related, and if so does this make it better or worse?
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jayngfet
Dude, this weeks Young Justice is already up on pirate sites because Cartoon Network can't co-ordinate this kind of blackout worth ass. It's on itunes now so that means it got ripped off pretty much the moment it went live.
In terms of an actual effort, anybody interested may want to PM me. A plan still needs the specifics hashed out, but if we come together I just may have something in mind.
EDIT: New Information:
Stephanie Brown's voice is listed in an image of the credits being thrown around on the internet. I can't verify from not having seen the episode yet, but this does throw a whole nother wrench into the mix.
I mean we all know the last year or so has been ...unkind... to Stephanie Brown(and Cassandra Cain, and about a dozen others), with DC's editorial trying to force Barbra Gordon back into her role of "the one true batgirl".
While Cartoon Network is still incredibly guilty for doing this, I think it's possible that DC may have pulled some strings for this. I have my reservations that a branch of Time Warner as minor as DC comics financially would be able to have that kind of influence, but it's possible(Though trying to figure out HOW would be baseless speculation).
This doesn't really change anything though. Cartoon Network has pulled this kind of stunt too many times to ignore, and DC has been kicking around character favoritism for as long as Cartoon Network has been screwing over people like this.
DOUBLE EDIT:
Ok, screenshots have been posted. So Stephanie Brown is a definite for appearing in this episode. Which just leaves us wondering if it's actually related, and if so does this make it better or worse?
DC have done many things with Steph recently that are stupid, but there is at least logic to it. Stupid logic, but logic. They would not sabotage their two animated shows less than a day before they were supposed to show it due to some campaign against her, especially as Barbara IS Batgirl in Young Justice, not Steph or Cass. At the moment, it is much more likely that Steph will enter the show as Spoiler, which DC shouldn't have too much of a problem with
And I have to say, I really hope Steph joins the team.
EDIT: Also, while Stephanie is in the credits as voiced by Mae Whitman (considering she plays Wonder Girl, I'm not surprised), in the episode itself she doesn't say a word. She will almost certainly have a role at some point, otherwise she would have just been a generic character, but you would only know Stephanie was there if you read the credits. Otherwise, she's just a blond girl who dresses in purple. Which brings even less credence to the theory that DC did this to screw with fans of Steph
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Ya, my take on this is that its all a ploy by Cartoon Network to try and maximize the DC Nation's viewership for next year. If the episodes played as they were supposed to Janurary-March would be nothing but reruns/hiatus until march when the new DC Nation shows, Beware the Batman and the new Teen Titans took over. To maximize the viewership for those two new shows they want to lead up to those shows with fresh episodes of YJ and GL... the ratings for DC Nation, even with something new tend to be weaker when their are reruns in the week prior; for example, the ratings for the new episodes of YJ and GL were good, but they were lower than what they were before the hiatus. And So, CN decided to hold back the next 3 months of DC Nation, so they can instead save it for next year so that it might lead into the newer shows in an attempt to maximize the performance of the new shows...
As for why we got Dragons instead of reruns of DC Nation; that is probably because the ratings for Reruns of DC Nation were very low. They don't want to repeat that low rating rerun period and thus, so they replaced DC Nation with something that might get higher ratings with reruns. So ya, i think its all CN's cruddy Marketing decisions.
Oh, and i snuck a peak at the new episode, i won't go into details but it was amazing
But we can confirm the cameo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SecondRevan
And I have to say, I really hope Steph joins the team.
This along with Barabara going Oracle and Cassandra Cain popping up is what I would speculate for Season 3 if it ever got greenlit.
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
You know what's even weirder about the timing? It's Frikkin Comic Con right now. You would expect tons of cross promotion for all their shows.
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SecondRevan
DC have done many things with Steph recently that are stupid, but there is at least logic to it. Stupid logic, but logic. They would not sabotage their two animated shows less than a day before they were supposed to show it due to some campaign against her, especially as Barbara IS Batgirl in Young Justice, not Steph or Cass. At the moment, it is much more likely that Steph will enter the show as Spoiler, which DC shouldn't have too much of a problem with
And I have to say, I really hope Steph joins the team.
EDIT: Also, while Stephanie is in the credits as voiced by Mae Whitman (considering she plays Wonder Girl, I'm not surprised), in the episode itself she doesn't say a word. She will almost certainly have a role at some point, otherwise she would have just been a generic character, but you would only know Stephanie was there if you read the credits. Otherwise, she's just a blond girl who dresses in purple. Which brings even less credence to the theory that DC did this to screw with fans of Steph
DC has outright claimed Steph and Cass are poisonous to the brand and work to keep them from appearing as anything at all in any comic in any form already even if it's non canon. I believe that if Didio thought for even one second he could stop something with a character he doesn't like he'd do it. The question isn't would he, it's could he. Does he even have the power to do that even with the temporary and overall miniscule boost the New 52 gave him? Would Snyder allow it easily or would he actually fight for DC nation? We don't know enough variables to actually make the call either way.
Quote:
Ya, my take on this is that its all a ploy by Cartoon Network to try and maximize the DC Nation's viewership for next year. If the episodes played as they were supposed to Janurary-March would be nothing but reruns/hiatus until march when the new DC Nation shows, Beware the Batman and the new Teen Titans took over. To maximize the viewership for those two new shows they want to lead up to those shows with fresh episodes of YJ and GL... the ratings for DC Nation, even with something new tend to be weaker when their are reruns in the week prior; for example, the ratings for the new episodes of YJ and GL were good, but they were lower than what they were before the hiatus. And So, CN decided to hold back the next 3 months of DC Nation, so they can instead save it for next year so that it might lead into the newer shows in an attempt to maximize the performance of the new shows...
Which is a terrible plan. DC Nation has enough episodes already done or in store that ending it so abruptly after such a short active time would just be confusing, and hurt long term ratings. Even if DC Nation returned, with the nature of TV scheduling and DC's New show's air time projected, it's still mean even if they started up in january there's a good chance it'll go after reruns anyway.
I'll agree these decisions are terrible. It's just that there's no excuse in any train of logic that would follow to any kind of need to put on a hiatus so abruptly or without notice to ANYONE, including the people on the show.
Especially since, unfortunatly, from what I've heard on the rumor mill, Young Justice won't get renewed for a new season. This was the best guess from people working on the show even before this broke out, and with the ratings failure that'll come from hiatus strings like this I can't see there being huge viewer counts to save it.
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jayngfet
DC has outright claimed Steph and Cass are poisonous to the brand and work to keep them from appearing as anything at all in any comic in any form already even if it's non canon.
What? When? This delicious burger needs sauce.
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jayngfet
DC has outright claimed Steph and Cass are poisonous to the brand and work to keep them from appearing as anything at all in any comic in any form already even if it's non canon. I believe that if Didio thought for even one second he could stop something with a character he doesn't like he'd do it. The question isn't would he, it's could he. Does he even have the power to do that even with the temporary and overall miniscule boost the New 52 gave him? Would Snyder allow it easily or would he actually fight for DC nation? We don't know enough variables to actually make the call either way.
They have never claimed that. They have said that in the Smallville comic, they wish to showcase the more iconic characters, and therefore changed the Smallville comic to use Barbara instead of Steph. There is a big difference.
That doe snot mean that they haven't treated both characters like crap so that they can have Barbara be Batgirl, by not letting Scott Snyder (please note everyone this is a different Snyder to the one in Cartoon Network) using one of them in the Batman comic, and refused a pitch by Gail Simone to use Steph in a team book. However, they have never said they were poisonous to the brand. The problem, I believe, is that as soon as one or both of those characters appears in the comics, people will be wanting them to return as Batgirl again, despite the fact that they wish to push Barbara instead. And that is the last thing they want, especially when so many prefer Barbara as Oracle. All very, very stupid, but that's what's happening. However, that point is unimportant.
The important thing is whether Didio, on his crusade to push Barbara as Batgirl, did something to DC Nation (which includes Green Lantern), just because of a tiny cameo in Young Justice. But the fact is, if Didio really cared, he would have already stopped it. When Young Justice started, Weisman was given a very small list of characters he wasn't allowed to use, including Wonder Girl. ALL restrictions have since been lifted, as they were entirely due to legal issues (although the fact that the new 52 has introduced, among other characters, John Constantine into the DC universe makes me wonder is there are a couple of new restrictions to ensure someone that family-unfriendly doesn't show up). If DC had a problem with Stephanie in Young Justice, they would not have allowed the show to use her in the first place. And it still doesn't explain why they would delay Green Lantern or the shorts till January, especially the Amethyst shorts, who is a character they are currently trying to push
Quote:
Which is a terrible plan. DC Nation has enough episodes already done or in store that ending it so abruptly after such a short active time would just be confusing, and hurt long term ratings. Even if DC Nation returned, with the nature of TV scheduling and DC's New show's air time projected, it's still mean even if they started up in january there's a good chance it'll go after reruns anyway.
I'll agree these decisions are terrible. It's just that there's no excuse in any train of logic that would follow to any kind of need to put on a hiatus so abruptly or without notice to ANYONE, including the people on the show.
Especially since, unfortunatly, from what I've heard on the rumor mill, Young Justice won't get renewed for a new season. This was the best guess from people working on the show even before this broke out, and with the ratings failure that'll come from hiatus strings like this I can't see there being huge viewer counts to save it.
If you are referring to the interview with Impulse's voice actor, I read that. However, to be honest, he is very nearly the last person to find out if a season 3 will be announced. Also note that, despite all the hiatuses the show has already had, it is still getting among CN's strongest ratings. If it doesn't get renewed for a third season, it will be for a different reason, like not wishing any show to go for more than 50 episodes or to be replaced with Beware the Batman and Teen Titans Go.
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SecondRevan
They have never claimed that. They have said that in the Smallville comic, they wish to showcase the more iconic characters, and therefore changed the Smallville comic to use Barbara instead of Steph. There is a big difference.
That doe snot mean that they haven't treated both characters like crap so that they can have Barbara be Batgirl, by not letting Scott Snyder (please note everyone this is a different Snyder to the one in Cartoon Network) using one of them in the Batman comic, and refused a pitch by Gail Simone to use Steph in a team book. However, they have never said they were poisonous to the brand. The problem, I believe, is that as soon as one or both of those characters appears in the comics, people will be wanting them to return as Batgirl again, despite the fact that they wish to push Barbara instead. And that is the last thing they want, especially when so many prefer Barbara as Oracle. All very, very stupid, but that's what's happening. However, that point is unimportant.
The important thing is whether Didio, on his crusade to push Barbara as Batgirl, did something to DC Nation (which includes Green Lantern), just because of a tiny cameo in Young Justice. But the fact is, if Didio really cared, he would have already stopped it. When Young Justice started, Weisman was given a very small list of characters he wasn't allowed to use, including Wonder Girl. ALL restrictions have since been lifted, as they were entirely due to legal issues (although the fact that the new 52 has introduced, among other characters, John Constantine into the DC universe makes me wonder is there are a couple of new restrictions to ensure someone that family-unfriendly doesn't show up). If DC had a problem with Stephanie in Young Justice, they would not have allowed the show to use her in the first place. And it still doesn't explain why they would delay Green Lantern or the shorts till January, especially the Amethyst shorts, who is a character they are currently trying to push
He outright called the character toxic if this is true.
Again, I'm not saying he DID do it, or that he'd even be able to, but if he could there's no doubt in my mind he would.
Quote:
If you are referring to the interview with Impulse's voice actor, I read that. However, to be honest, he is very nearly the last person to find out if a season 3 will be announced. Also note that, despite all the hiatuses the show has already had, it is still getting among CN's strongest ratings. If it doesn't get renewed for a third season, it will be for a different reason, like not wishing any show to go for more than 50 episodes or to be replaced with Beware the Batman and Teen Titans Go.
I'm not saying I fully believe it, I'm just saying that it's a possibillity, and one that gets me worried going by this hiatus.
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jayngfet
The events did happen, but he never called the character toxic, just that they wanted Smallville to feature the most iconic versions of the character. I don't know where the quote came from, as it comes from an anonymous source, but Didio never came outright called either character toxic. In fact, the worst I've heard is that no one is allowed to use them, apparently because of 'future plans'
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kpenguin
*skulldesk*
It really does make you wonder what kind of ludicrous internal politicing is going on behind this last-minute decision. I do wonder how much of the blame lies with DC (in either causing this - if we believe the Stephanie Brown theory - or not putting their foot down; I'd be less inclined to believe the former if it didn't seem like both Marvel and DC were hell-bent on making their comics unreadable of late...)
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Can anyone check to see if the episode is still on itunes? From what I've heard, not only is CN swiping the episode, the episode is also having all it's records wiped. Which is big because I heard it had been trending for a while in a big way.
The records I think are big. I mean there'd be no real reason to wipe them except to save face if you either know you'd done something stupid or else if you intentionally want a show to die.
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jayngfet
The records I think are big. I mean there'd be no real reason to wipe them except to save face if you either know you'd done something stupid or else if you intentionally want a show to die.
As others have alluded to...It could be that CN is with-holding episodes to compete, later with Disney when they release their 'Marvel Block' next year. If they've got episodes to air because they specifically didn't, now, it means they'll be able to put something on the TV when Disney/Marvel put it's hand in the pie.
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
As others have alluded to...It could be that CN is with-holding episodes to compete, later with Disney when they release their 'Marvel Block' next year. If they've got episodes to air because they specifically didn't, now, it means they'll be able to put something on the TV when Disney/Marvel put it's hand in the pie.
Yeah, but by removing DC Nation entirely this means they basically have no hands in the pie at this specific moment.
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
...I already BOUGHT the episode and it's been wiped from my iPhone.
RAAAAAAAAAGE!!
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HalfTangible
...I already BOUGHT the episode and it's been wiped from my iPhone.
RAAAAAAAAAGE!!
Wow, they actually took back the Itunes sales without refunds because of their last minute schedule change?:smallconfused::smalleek::smallsigh:
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mutant Sheep
Wow, they actually took back the Itunes sales without refunds because of their last minute schedule change?:smallconfused::smalleek::smallsigh:
Forget cruelty, we have nothing but sheer incompetence coming out now. In any case, this shouldn't be allowed to continue, simply because we all know this isn't the first time in the last few years this has happened and it damn well won't be the last.
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mutant Sheep
Wow, they actually took back the Itunes sales without refunds because of their last minute schedule change?:smallconfused::smalleek::smallsigh:
I assume they have simply changed the permissions. You still own it, but won't be able to watch it until they rerelease it. Don't know why they could let you keep it, considering it doesn't change anything, but if this has proven anything; it is that cartoon network are incompetent
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
So I just watched the first episode and....I liked allot of elements.
I liked the superstar Justice league, I liked the secret plan (Though its pathetically easy to sneak into) , I liked the new directions.
Though I had a few fun notes I had watching the first episode:
Holy crap! Batman Murders Dr.Freeze! He can't live without his helmet!
Wow. You must have burn marks all over you hands gliding down that rope
Put on some shoes! The floor is some kind of bio-cave!
Its scary to think that the Animated adaptations take more risks in their stories then comics do.
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scowling Dragon
Its scary to think that the Animated adaptations take more risks in their stories then comics do.
You wait 'til later! Robin punches a hole in what appears to be a cement wall and doesn't even break his hand!
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
So if there was an episode up last week anyway, but they retracted it, is there going to be one this week or not?
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Flickerdart
So if there was an episode up last week anyway, but they retracted it, is there going to be one this week or not?
No. Official word is that new episodes will not continue until January. Only reason last episode was leaked is because they pulled the episode at the last minute, meaning before they could tell itunes not to release the episode.
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
... I started watching Young Justice a few weeks ago and intentionally avoided this thread because I didn't want spoilers... I am currently watching episode 5 of season 2. And there won't be any new episodes till January?:smallsigh: I should have spaced out my watching sessions.
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Young Justice and hiatuses are very frustrating. Especially considering this one, unlike thwarting others, was last minute and without adequate reason
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Re: Young Justice (Spoilers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SecondRevan
Young Justice and hiatuses are very frustrating. Especially considering this one, unlike thwarting others, was last minute and without adequate reason
Especially especially since (having watched the episode we cut off from before it was taken down) it makes more sense to do a hiatus after THAT episode!