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Does this tactic work by RAW?
So I'm slowly going through Three Faces of Evil with a scalpel and making the adjustments need to give my higher level players a challenge for this place.
There is a room with fanatic worshipers. Now the scaling advice says just give them levels of fighter, but I had something a little more sadistic and appropriate.
Could I give them an Alchemist fire in each hand, have them charge towards the party, and as a free action drop the potions at their feet. The result of this I assume would be an automatic 1 damage to each person and them selves in a 5 ft radius.
Now my other question is, since these are fanatics, I plan on this being suicidal. If they generate an attack of opportunity and will most likely die in one hit, do they drop the Alchemist fire at their feet, for the same effect?
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
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Originally Posted by
killem2
There is a room with fanatic worshipers.
I misread that as "fanfic worshippers". But thanks to my cultural training, that's much scarier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killem2
since these are fanatics, I plan on this being suicidal. If they generate an attack of opportunity and will most likely die in one hit, do they drop the Alchemist fire at their feet, for the same effect?
You do drop whatever's in your hands when you fall unconscious, including when you die. Looks RAW from here.
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
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Originally Posted by
killem2
Could I give them an Alchemist fire in each hand, have them charge towards the party, and as a free action drop the potions at their feet. The result of this I assume would be an automatic 1 damage to each person and them selves in a 5 ft radius.
Now my other question is, since these are fanatics, I plan on this being suicidal. If they generate an attack of opportunity and will most likely die in one hit, do they drop the Alchemist fire at their feet, for the same effect?
Yes you can drop as free action, but dropping flask doesn't say they explode.
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
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Originally Posted by
Starbuck_II
Yes you can drop as free action, but dropping flask doesn't say they explode.
If you use something that is considered a splash weapon, the rules state that "A splash weapon is a ranged weapon that breaks on impact" so dropping would cause it to break, triggering the effect. I think the key difference here is a substance in a container designed to break on impact is different than a normal container taking falling damage.
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
Well, you could just strap them in vests lined with highly explosive alchemical compounds, give them a few levels in rogue, and send them running at an unaware group....
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
Our just have them all chug Elixers of Death Throes, a relatively cheap single use consumable wondrous item. Have them labeled as "Potions of Fanatical Power".
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killem2
Could I give them an Alchemist fire in each hand, have them charge towards the party, and as a free action drop the potions at their feet. The result of this I assume would be an automatic 1 damage to each person and them selves in a 5 ft radius.
Why can't they just throw the flasks at the PCs' squares? Ranged touch attack vs. AC 5, and they're not guaranteed to die.
Suicide is cute thematic, but not always necessary.
EDIT: Fine, I changed it.
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
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Originally Posted by
Slipperychicken
Why can't they just throw the flasks at the PCs' squares? Ranged touch attack vs. AC 5, and they're not guaranteed to die.
Suicide is cute, but not always necessary.
Outside of this context, this is a really disturbing quote....
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
It seems like an iffy ruling on if they break. To me, it seems like they would, I mean they are flasks, you don't want them sturdy enough to resist breaking.
The suicide is not needed I agree, but it is for the flavor. Besides, their entire purpose is basically to just take up time for guards to get into place, they are expendable.
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
Throwing the flasks at the player's squares + using the elixir of death throes seems like the most fitting, most optimal and most sadistic use.
Also, tanglefoot bags are awesome.
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
If you REALLY want the most bang for your psychotically devoted henchman, might I recommend the Pathfinder Implant Bomb feat, either as-is or for inspiration.
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
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Originally Posted by
Starbuck_II
Yes you can drop as free action, but dropping flask doesn't say they explode.
A glass flask has 1 hit point and a hardness of 1. When its owner dies, consider it dropped from a height of, oh, let's say, 5'. It should take 1d3 damage (half of 1d6) - a roll of 2 or higher breaks it.
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
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Originally Posted by
Zdrak
A glass flask has 1 hit point and a hardness of 1. When its owner dies, consider it dropped from a height of, oh, let's say, 5'. It should take 1d3 damage (half of 1d6) - a roll of 2 or higher breaks it.
From the SRD:
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The basic rule is simple: 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet fallen, to a maximum of 20d6.
Falling less than 10 feet does not deal damage to anything per RAW; the DM is eligible to fudge the rules, but he/she did say "Does this tactic work by RAW?" in the title.
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
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Originally Posted by
Novawurmson
Falling less than 10 feet does not deal damage to anything per RAW
This one goes directly to the Dysfunctional Rules Thread :smallsmile:
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
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Originally Posted by
ThiagoMartell
Throwing the flasks at the player's squares + using the elixir of death throes seems like the most fitting, most optimal and most sadistic use.
I keep seeing this reference to 'elixir of death throes' and am wondering if someone can provide a source. Otherwise, since the spell 'death throes' in SC is a 5th level spell and Brew Potion only works on spells up to 3rd level, this would not normally work.
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
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Originally Posted by
BowStreetRunner
I keep seeing this reference to 'elixir of death throes' and am wondering if someone can provide a source. Otherwise, since the spell 'death throes' in SC is a 5th level spell and Brew Potion only works on spells up to 3rd level, this would not normally work.
'Elixir' is generally the term the rules use for 'a potion-like item created as a Wondrous Item.' Strictly speaking it's a custom magic item, but it's also one of the most straightforward and least abusive ways of using those rules, similar to making scrolls of assorted non-PHB spells.
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
So it's basically a potion created from a spell that specifically is not allowed to be made into a potion. Not a first time the item creation rules have been abused, and not the last.
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
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Originally Posted by
Zdrak
So it's basically a potion created from a spell that specifically is not allowed to be made into a potion. Not a first time the item creation rules have been abused, and not the last.
Not only is the spell higher than 3rd level and thus ineligible for potion-crafting, it would also cost 1125gp for 9d8 (40.5 average) Force damage, single-use. That's a really bad deal, considering you can just have minions read Explosive Runes for free and deal 6d6 (21 average) Force damage. As a 3rd level spell. For free. And you don't even need to worry about the PCs disabling them nonlethally and wasting your gold and effort.
Using the same spell slot as the Death Throes, you can slap Empower onto the Explosive Runes for 31.5 average damage. Again, for no cost beyond the loser devoted follower you just wasted. On that thought, just use summons to deliver the payload, and spare your cultists for another day.
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
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Originally Posted by
Zdrak
So it's basically a potion created from a spell that
specifically is not allowed to be made into a potion. Not a first time the item creation rules have been abused, and not the last.
Elixirs may look like potions, but they are not potions.
Elixirs are Wondrous Items and so follow a different set of rules.
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
I do understand there's a RAW justification. That doesn't make it any less ridiculous.
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
Depending on the level of your henchmen, they could always take Fiery Ki Defense and run in to grapple the PCs like little flaming saibamen. Not quite suicidal, but then again the only better for a fanatical cult member than martyring himself is getting the job done without dying. Of course being NPCs, their fate is to become a charred corpse regardless....these are Adventurers we're talking about after all.
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
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Originally Posted by
Novawurmson
From the SRD:
Falling less than 10 feet does not deal damage to anything per RAW; the DM is eligible to fudge the rules, but he/she did say "Does this tactic work by RAW?" in the title.
While you are correct, damage is actually not required here. All splash weapons "break on impact" by RAW, therefore the exact height/damage of the fall is irrelevant.
"Impact" is not defined anywhere in the rules, thus it is up to the DM to decide whether a given situation qualifies.
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
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Originally Posted by
Psyren
"Impact" is not defined anywhere in the rules, thus it is up to the DM to decide whether a given situation qualifies.
DM: "As you reach into your pack, your hand impacts against a flask of alchemical fire..."
PC: "$#!&...I hate it when that happens!"
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
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Originally Posted by
BowStreetRunner
DM: "As you reach into your pack, your hand impacts against a flask of alchemical fire..."
PC: "$#!&...I hate it when that happens!"
Considering some horror stories I've heard about terrible DMs, I am sure that something like this has happened to someone.
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
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Originally Posted by
BowStreetRunner
DM: "As you reach into your pack, your hand impacts against a flask of alchemical fire..."
PC: "$#!&...I hate it when that happens!"
As with all DM interpretations, Rule -1 plays a key role. (Everyone is there to have fun, not just you.)
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
Give each of them a craft contingent maximized Maw of Chaos. The mook get's in range, triggers it, and the group get's boomed.
It's tons of fun to load mooks down with Craft Contingent spells set to trigger if they die, take damage, fall unconscious, etc.
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
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Originally Posted by
Emperor Tippy
Give each of them a craft contingent maximized Maw of Chaos. The mook get's in range, triggers it, and the group get's boomed.
It's tons of fun to load mooks down with Craft Contingent spells set to trigger if they die, take damage, fall unconscious, etc.
... let's try this again, but this time without the one-round TPK, all right? :smalltongue:
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
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Originally Posted by
tuggyne
... let's try this again, but this time without the one-round TPK, all right? :smalltongue:
Acid Fogs or something.
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
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Originally Posted by
tuggyne
... let's try this again, but this time without the one-round TPK, all right? :smalltongue:
*bah*
One round TPK's are just fine. I didn't hit the mooks with Magic Aura or Nondetection so Detect Magic or Arcane Sight will show that they are highly magical. PC's that get in close contact with highly magical individuals without taking precautions deserve to be boomed.
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Re: Does this tactic work by RAW?
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Originally Posted by
Keld Denar
Our just have them all chug Elixers of Death Throes, a relatively cheap single use consumable wondrous item. Have them labeled as "Potions of Fanatical Power".
Can you tell me where to find this please?