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I'm specifically referring to as it relates to said themes. While it's true that I don't think the show is very good even beyond them, I also think it's irrelevant to the discussion and not really a position I've bothered to argue. Because, yes, I'll readily admit that I appear to be in the minority on that topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jade Dragon
That's really something of an understatement. Half the time I don't know if I'm hallucinating or if she's being serious, or if this is somehow a big, elaborate joke being played on me. I mean Poison Fish tried to seperate this thread from Straw Feminism but that's kind of hard to do when literally every trick in the book is being pulled out in rapid succession by someone right here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jade Dragon
Thank you for proving you're just as crazy as her by completely ignoring my argument, instead preferring to take any hold you can get to try and pry the opposing argument open.
Hey, I already said at length why it was supposed to be good in those regards. I didn't feel like repeating myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jade Dragon
You mean apart from the violence, the ridiculously male outfits, the literal shouting, the death threats, the hysteria breaking sentences into fragments, the gender essentialism, the insistence that all men are rapists...I could go on, but the latter is interesting, so I'll stop to elaborate on that one. I've repeatedly said that the behavior I consider sexual harassment is something most men don't do, while Soras and Draconus have said they're intrinsic to male sexuality. So, really, aren't they closer than me to being the ones to make that claim?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayngfet
I've pretty consistently argued that men are capable of self-control, restraint and having a sexuality that doesn't involve cat calling women, after all. Which is kind of the opposite of calling all men rapists.
...you people are making me want to actually watch the show just to know what this is all about.
Do, it's a good show :smalltongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldariel
But yeah, I'm a lady who watches anime, and I think you're taking this REALLY seriously, which is cool, but probably also excessive.
At any rate, I'm quite excited for the next episode :smallbiggrin:
I agree with Terraoblivion here. I'm rather shocked at the views expressed by Jayngfet and others stating that they're stunned and horrified by her views, as they seem rather reasonable to me. I'm afraid I haven't watched the anime, but judging from what's said here, I don't see this anime as being particularly good with a woman-friendly message.
Well if you want to spend your time on it, good for you, you can make an informed opinion on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldariel
I keep trying to come up with plot threads that we could follow that could eat up the next 8 or so episodes before the series ends but the show keeps throwing in curveballs that completely changes the overall focus in nearly every episode.
It's a cartoon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tectonic Robot
I mean, I get it, I like anime and I love reading into it and stuff, but not everything is presenting a message. It's just...it's just telling a story guys. You're taking things way to seriously :smallbiggrin:
Terraoblivion and others devolved into personal attacks, name calling, and cheap tactics. How in the world am I supposed to support that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tectonic Robot
Yes, everyone else did too, but if you've actually been paying attention I've been coming down on them just as hard elsewhere.
To put it bluntly, I'm a terrible person, you're all terrible people, and this thread is terrible.
Cartoons are important, man. They're not totally harmless. They affect how you and I think when we watch 'em. Maybe not drastically, but it does have an effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by LaZodiac
I wasn't really talking about the name calling or cheap tactics, just what was being said. About the sexism and junk? I think the show sounds pretty awful with that. But, y'know, whatevs, man. Y'all can enjoy whatever you want to.Quote:
Terraoblivion and others devolved into personal attacks, name calling, and cheap tactics. How in the world am I supposed to support that?
Yes, everyone else did too, but if you've actually been paying attention I've been coming down on them just as hard elsewhere.
To put it bluntly, I'm a terrible person, you're all terrible people, and this thread is terrible.
__________________
Of course, as I keep saying, the show is obviously going somewhere with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tectonic Robot
You're free to say it is or isn't a good place, but please, wait until it actually gets there.
Excellent soundtrack? Large amounts of ham and dramatic speeches and declarations? As far as I'm concerned, it excels at all the things that make it a fun spectacle for me to look forward every week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jade Dragon
Go for it! :smallbiggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldariel
Fair enough. I'd like to say that the messages presented so far, assuming what Terraoblivion has been complaining about has been correct, have been rather harmful, but it'd be best to wait to see what kind of conclusion they make of it before passing final judgment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayngfet
Not everything has a deliberate message, yes. However stories display assumptions and world views and their content is influenced by what is viewed as acceptable and what as unacceptable. Things happening in them echo cultural memes. That doesn't change because it's a cartoon. *shrugs*Quote:
Originally Posted by LaZodiac
Anyway cartoon fits something I have been thinking when watching the first episodes. It reminded me a bit of a western cartoon (not in all aspects of course), though I can't quite remember what inspired the feeling... Did others have that association too?
Honestly, I only became convinced they were going somewhere over the last few weeks, but things have obviously been building and building to something major. As we've seen, most of the old assumptions about what the show is "about" have been largely incorrect and nobody really know where it'll end up at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tectonic Robot
It doesn't need to be particularly deep, but even one inch counts as depth and I want to see where that inch goes before I try to step into it.
The writer and director love American cartoons. It was more pronounced in Panty and Stocking, but it's certainly here as well, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibrinar
Yeah, I can totes respect that opinion. I hope it ends up well for ya.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayngfet
Yeah, having just finished up to episode 4, Terra sounds like she’s been right so far. I mean, yeah, I can see how someone can get a body-positivity message out of “you have to be comfortable in your own skin to unlock the full power of a Kamui” but it sort of gets ruined by
- The sheer amount of skin that the Kamui shows, and this the wearer has to be comfortable with showing
- All the men in-universe that are watching the fight leering and nosebleeding over the main character while she is expositing about how she figured out how the Kamui works
- The fact that the two other girls who have been able to unlock the full power of a Kamui are (self-proclaimed, mind you) shameless and uncaring about how they look as long as they can become powerful.
Which is a fair assessment, for episode four. You need to get into the teens to get into most of the stuff I've actually mentioned. Most of the formula established up to that point winds up being quickly abandoned anyway. Kill la Kill is a totally different game after a few episodes more, and a different game after that a few episodes later, then after that, then so on...Quote:
Originally Posted by Herpestidae
Clearly it will end with Ryuko and Satsuki teaming up while standing ontop universes (plural) fighting when it turns out Life Fibers are.... string theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigh
Not really. It's still the same bold lines, heavily expressionistic visuals, shouting, hard-edged line delivery, fights based around still poses and flashing lights in the background, the same quantity and type of jokes, the same very skimpy outfits and so on. It only really changes on the level of plot and maybe with a slight pick-up of pacing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayngfet
You know, about a year ago I swapped from liberal arts to animation and I'm hoping to specialize in character design eventually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terraoblivion
I still think that this statement is entirely laughable.
"It doesn't change, except in terms of the plot."
I mean really lady, really?
I all but promise you someone's going to at the very least have a string theory themed powerset or make the correlation to life fibers being the fiber of the universe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soras Teva Gee
Okay, true, new outfits for characters who hadn't gotten to show them off before show up. They're...roughly the same style as the outfits as before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayngfet
Also, I thought it had been pointed out before that simply throwing credentials that nobody can check around isn't a very productive pursuit. Nor is appealing to self-evidence, for that matter.
In any case, don't expect things to change completely Herpestidae. There isn't really anything backing that up.
...what? The new outfits are largely in totally different styles and characters like the elite four have gotten multiple costumes over the last few episodes. Some off which were wildly different to serve different purposes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terraoblivion
I think he's more mocking the fact that you're being so dismissive of such a "tiny" thing as the plot changing, which it has much more than just a bit.
And yes if we don't get some kind of joke about String Theory at some point then heads will roll.
On a very superficial level. They hardly represent an artstyle overhaul, nor a change in cinematography, character direction or narrative themes. They're also keeping with the sense of exaggeration that previous outfits have gone with, rather than either naturalistic portrayals, underplayed, minimalistic or anything else that would clash with the existing visual style.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayngfet
Also, I fail to see how new outfits mean a significant change in any case. Especially in a show where clothes are the source of power and which follows the formula of a shounen action show with frequent fights and the hero getting stronger. It's absolutely what you'd expect.
And, Sigh, the plot is absolutely insignificant compared to directorial style, visual style, themes, pacing, character direction, use of music and sound effects and all those other aspects of craft that go into the show. If the themes stay the same, then changes in who is fighting who and where they're doing it is irrelevant unless it has something to say about the themes. And the plot changes so far have either been irrelevant window dressing or a direct continuation of what was set up at the start, to the point where they don't do anything other than reinforce the pre-existing themes.