warblade/wu jen/jade pheonix mage, help please?

ok, so i have 1 more day, and 1 more night to figure out my character. i have several ideas, but i wanted to see what people here could come up with-design my new character!

this a starting at level 5, with 9000 gold to buy equipment, we can use any books except magazines, but there is a restriction of 2-3 base classes and ONE prestige class. a few 3.0 classes are ok, if cleared first, such as peerless archer from silver marches

my numbers are 18, 18, 16, 16, 14, 11

here are a few things that are musts:

-I am an oriental female Aasimar, but a non LA one my DM nerfed, and (ive been cleared to be a half-elf aasimar if i want to be a champion of corellon), with +2 WIS, -2CON
-I am from the oriental area of the world we will be playing in. Samurai culture is on the decline, and their beliefs dont fit with the view of the current world leaders (who kind of are eradicating anything "different")
-the current party has a human samurai, human cleric, and something else (player has not disclosed it yet), and MAYBE a whispergnome rogue

now i want to be a female sephiroth type character, can it be done??

this is the thought currently
warblade/wu jen/jade pheonix mage

ideas? this is meant to be a fun build challenge, but anything super crazy will be shot down more than likely.

With this stat array you might, maybe, eventually, consider a monk build

Then again, would help if we knew what kind of character you'd like to play, caster, gish, skillmonkey ?

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Originally Posted by DanReiv

With this stat array you might, maybe, eventually, consider a monk build

Then again, would help if we knew what kind of character you'd like to play, caster, gish, skillmonkey ?

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completely open, just want something that fits in a japanese setting. was considering ninja, samurai, etc, but would like a nice little multi-classed toy. my last character was a human druid/sorc/arcane heirophant. We have a first cleric (travel and luck domains), but a second isnt out of the question. ive been strongly considering a psychic warrior/samurai build, but was looking for a prc.

How about Ranger/Psion/Slayer? Has a rather appropriate oriental "monk" feel to it with all the mind-over-matter stuff Psionics has and mental mastery-stuff Slayer does. Could be combatant of any kind really; gishes lend themselves to various combat styles. Decent skills and so on. Of course, for the Wis-path you'd be better off with Ardent over Psion and that's definitely just as fine an option as well.

You could also, if you're interested in archery, do some physical Archer-build like Ranger 2/Fighter 2/Warblade 6/Eternal Blade 10. You could easily fluff that as a zen archer of sorts. That'd be Elven, of course (Eternal Blade is Elf-exclusive), though doesn't really make that much use out of your Wis. Cleric 10/Contemplative 10 or Druid 20 should work out fine with your Wis-focus. These can, again, be built to be pretty much anything.


Really though, best we can do is suggest you stuff. Making a whole build only to...have nothing come out of it is kind of frustrating. But ideas should be a-plenty.

It looks like your party needs an arcane spellcaster. Even if the undisclosed character is an arcane caster, you can always use a second one! That one prestige class limit is really harsh, considering many reasonable characters will have one base class and two prestige classes. Plus that Wisdom bonus doesn't really help most arcane casters at all, so we should find something to do with it.

Archivist is an Int-basd divine caster, but gets bonus spells based on Wisdom. It can learn nearly any spell in the game, so it can do all the same tricks that arcane casters get. You don't even need to use prestige classes with it, since it actually gets class features unlike most spellcasters. Maye dip a single level into Sacred Exorcist to get Divine Metamagic, or you can go into the 3.0 Hexer from Masters of the Wild. You'll probably want at least eleven levels of Archivist to get Dread Secret, but as long as you don't lose any spellcasting levels you should do fine.

Dread Necromancer in Heroes of Horror is a Cha-based spontaneous caster, you can probably guess its specialty. You would mostly rely on undead minions to fight for you while you debuff opponents. It gets some amazing tricks, such as taking the feat Tomb-Tainted Soul from Libris Mortis to use your at-will negative energy touch to heal yourself. You'd probably want to take Arcane Disciple for the Evil domain to get access to Desecrate for creating undead minions, which means you'll want a decent (14+) Wisdom score to get access to more spells for your investment. You can also take the feat Versatile Spellcaster in Races of the Dragon to get early access to your next level of spells. The Ghostly Visage familiar you can get at 7th level is just amazing, it gives you constant immunity to mind-affecting effects and can use a paralyzing gaze attack in combat. Over the course of twenty levels the class gradually gives you the benefits of being a lich, eventually granting you the entire template for no level adjustment at 20th level.

Beguiler in PH2 is another great arcane spellcasting class. It focuses on illusion and enchantment, and gets skills like a rogue along with trapfinding. Outside of combat it's one of the most useful classes in the entire game, and it has plenty to contribute in a fight as well. You'd want to stay single-classed except for a single level of Mindbender at your 6th level. Versatile Spellcaster can also give you early access to the next level of spells with this class. It gains additional spells known via its Advanced Learning class feature, which with a dip in Mindbender and Versatile Spellcaster you could pick an array like Ray of Stupidity, Shadow Form, Greater Shadow Conjuration, Greater Shadow Evocation, and Superior Invisibility. Be sure to take the feats Darkstalker and Mindsight (p126) in Lords of Madness, and consider picking up the Raiment of the Four set in MIC for more spellcasting options.

Wu-jen (CArcane) or just a wizard fluffed to be a wise old shamany woman?

You're party looks like it could use arcane support. This would bring it.

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Originally Posted by Eldariel

How about Ranger/Psion/Slayer? Has a rather appropriate oriental "monk" feel to it with all the mind-over-matter stuff Psionics has and mental mastery-stuff Slayer does. Could be combatant of any kind really; gishes lend themselves to various combat styles. Decent skills and so on. Of course, for the Wis-path you'd be better off with Ardent over Psion and that's definitely just as fine an option as well.

You could also, if you're interested in archery, do some physical Archer-build like Ranger 2/Fighter 2/Warblade 6/Eternal Blade 10. You could easily fluff that as a zen archer of sorts. That'd be Elven, of course (Eternal Blade is Elf-exclusive), though doesn't really make that much use out of your Wis. Cleric 10/Contemplative 10 or Druid 20 should work out fine with your Wis-focus. These can, again, be built to be pretty much anything.


Really though, best we can do is suggest you stuff. Making a whole build only to...have nothing come out of it is kind of frustrating. But ideas should be a-plenty.

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Why Ranger/Psion when Psywar would probably work better?

Wu-Jen has the added bonus of possessing shield on its spell list, making it a very valid candidate for the classic Abjurant Champion.

I'd say something among the line of swordsage/wujen going into abj champ for an overall decent and flavorful gish.

could definitely use a caster, part of the reason i am looking into psionics a bit. taking a look at the elocater right now, pretty cool, the picture of it always threw me, but would be good for...

samurai2/psychic warrior2/elocater10/psychic warrior 6

interesting, would have 5th level powers (outa 6th total), great mobility, and the ability opportunistic strike looks like it would be awesome if combined with a composite (+3 or 4) greatbow. i always heard psychic warrior made good archers, is that tru? this could be a pretty sweet archer class maybe. or just straight up melee with the katana. ive also been cleared to have a greatbow as my ancestral daisho weapon if i choose


ill look into wu jen too. since the aasimar normall gains +2 wis, +2 cha, i could have mine get one or the other, as long as i take the -2 to con.

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Originally Posted by Jallorn

Why Ranger/Psion when Psywar would probably work better?

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'cause Psy War wouldn't really work better? Honestly, isn't that kinda like asking "why eat apples when you can eat oranges?" Ardent is a 9th level manifester based off Wisdom tho, so I suggest that if going for Wis-base.

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Originally Posted by Eldariel

'cause Psy War wouldn't really work better? Honestly, isn't that kinda like asking "why eat apples when you can eat oranges?" Ardent is a 9th level manifester based off Wisdom tho, so I suggest that if going for Wis-base.

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the ardent has always confused me as to when it gains higher level spells? i looked into it and am still baffled (was a lil stoned though :P )

well, you might recall the mounted build i typed out in one of your previous threads, but i have another idea: go with ToB.

the hit to constitution will be harmful, but i would consider a crusader. you buff your allies, you heal, white raven, you hit things HARD, you have white raven, you have teh feel and might of what a paladin should have been, white raven is pretty good.

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Originally Posted by SylvanPrincess

the ardent has always confused me as to when it gains higher level spells?

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Just look at your ML, then down at the wizard chart, then back to your ML. Your ML is now diamonds. What ever level spells a wizard could cast, you can learn. Sadly, you are not a wizard, but you can manifest powers like the wizard you smell like.

I'm on a phantom steed.

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Originally Posted by SylvanPrincess

the ardent has always confused me as to when it gains higher level spells? i looked into it and am still baffled (was a lil stoned though :P )

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its ok, you could be entirely sober and miss it. but they are effectively a gish in a can, and make for some seriously powerful builds

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Originally Posted by Keld Denar

Just look at your ML, then down at the wizard chart, then back to your ML. Your ML is now diamonds. What ever level spells a wizard could cast, you can learn. Sadly, you are not a wizard, but you can manifest powers like the wizard you smell like.

I'm on a phantom steed.

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even at lower levels, you can make a cake in a kitchen that i conjured for you

btw, that is now in my sig

Fire Shugenja/Sacred Exorcist. :smallsmile:

So I'll post up my final proposition :smallbiggrin:

Swordsage4/Sorcerer 1 at start, going to Swordsage4/Sorcerer5/Abj Champion 5.

At this point you have 5th level spells (wings of cover/ruin's delver fortune are cool and Sorc only spells), which you can all burn for various bonus as a swift action, a +9 swift extended shield for every lvl 1 spell slot, +10BAB, and 9th Initiator level.

I'd finish with swordsage to pull up some very nasty Swooping Dragon Strike (DC vs Stun : your jump check) and still gaining a few CL.

My recommendation:
Swordsage/Psywar/Slayer

Elocator is nice, but it's 3/4 BAB, 7/10 progression and requires 3 mostly useless feats (mobility requires dodge).
Slayer is full BAB, 9/10 progression, and only requires 1 feat.

Swordsage is also more synergystic with a high wis score, while samurai prefers to have high Charisma. And if you want to have the samurai's flavor, take weapon proficiency bastard sword and pretend to be a samurai.

The build would be Swordsage 2/Psywar 4/Slayer 10/Whatever x. Choose to specialize in only one or two schools of maneuver. Definitely take the Practiced Manifester feat as one of your first 2 psywar feats. Other than that, just have fun and take what you like. Lots of good options there.

Hope that helps.

i had a thought today while i was at work.

ninja/psychic warrior(psion?)/elocater

i know it has a lower bab, but... cool ninja concept, a psionic ninja! i like it, can it be done well? sudden strike/ghost step + elocater's opportunistic strike is neat- would it work with combat reflexes? great leap and dimension hop is a cool flavor for a ninja, plus if i used psychic warrior instead of psion, i could have psionic lions charge. using expand to become a large or huge ninja would be pretty cool when you ghost step and squash someone heheh

sounds like i may want to look into this further, any thoughts about this? is it bad? i am doing this game for the flavor of the character as well, not just optimizing.

also, im not sure about using ToB, its cool stuff, but something i think id want to use only if someone else in the party was. just not sure, otherwise, swordsage would be sweet

the thing about slayer is i dont think there is much of a reason to have psionic defenses in this world, and its fav enemy is only psionic creatures

thanks for all the responses so far, and thanks again to those who have bounced around my indecisive threads :smallredface: tomorrow is the deadline though!

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Originally Posted by SylvanPrincess

i know it has a lower bab, but... cool ninja concept, a psionic ninja! i like it, can it be done well? sudden strike/ghost step + elocater's opportunistic strike is neat- would it work with combat reflexes? great leap and dimension hop is a cool flavor for a ninja, plus if i used psychic warrior instead of psion, i could have psionic lions charge. using expand to become a large or huge ninja would be pretty cool when you ghost step and squash someone heheh

sounds like i may want to look into this further, any thoughts about this? is it bad? i am doing this game for the flavor of the character as well, not just optimizing.

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Just remember, you don't have to have any levels in class named "Ninja" to be a Ninja. And you could probably do better with Ardent than Psy War unless you have some specific feats you feel you need; Ardent's Mantles allow you to customize what you need quite perfectly.

You could also instead make a spellcasting gish; that'd give you consistent access to Greater Invisibility among other things. But yeah, Psionic "Ninja" could definitely be done.

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Originally Posted by SylvanPrincess

also, im not sure about using ToB, its cool stuff, but something i think id want to use only if someone else in the party was. just not sure, otherwise, swordsage would be sweet

the thing about slayer is i dont think there is much of a reason to have psionic defenses in this world, and its fav enemy is only psionic creatures

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Well, the psionic defenses work against all manners of magic quite well. And Favored Enemy...ask DM to switch it to something appropriate for the world if Psionics and Psionic entities are that rare.

what would sephiroth be if you designed him using up to 3 classes and one prc?

Sephiroth from ff7? Warblade/wizard/jade Phoenix Mage.
Without ToB? Duskblade/wizard/ultimate magus.

hmmm....interesting combos there. i totally feel that sephiroth from ff7 woulf be a maneuver sort of class..... but without, yeah you may have nailed it deuskblade, wizaard ultimate magus seems appropriate. ima think on this. it seems to me always that he had more hp than straight up casters, but... most of his stuff seems spontaneous casting at its best.

the thing is, how would u design his antithesis, a lawful good, female, version?

hmmm...

maybe a sorcadin type...

start out Paladin 2/Battle sorcerer 3, and take it from there.

or, swashbuckler 3/ wizard 2...

if you take the right prestige class, it could still work, I think.

(I haven't played FF7, just heard a lot about sephiroth)

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Originally Posted by SylvanPrincess

the thing is, how would u design his antithesis, a lawful good, female, version?

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What? Aeris? :smalltongue: Anyway, my ECL 25 imagining of Sephiroth might give you some ideas.

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Originally Posted by kestrel404

Sephiroth from ff7? Warblade/wizard/jade Phoenix Mage.
Without ToB? Duskblade/wizard/ultimate magus.

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i really like the first one here, what would the breakdown be? i dont know warblade well enuf, i know the swordsage. and might wu jen be better, especially if i can have its lev 6 elemental mastery abillity (choosing fire)? that way, with the jade pheonix mage, ill be casting fire spells at a + 3 caster level. also think its nuts that the jpmage is full bab. i love it! the only thing i might seitch is wizard for wu jen (C. arcane), for a more oriental flavor, and some of its abilites mesh nicely- if i can take many levels of it.

warblade 2/wu jen 3/jade pheonix mage 10...finish?

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Originally Posted by SylvanPrincess

what would sephiroth be if you designed him using up to 3 classes and one prc?

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Mystic Ranger [favored enemy (arcanists)] with Sword of Arcane Order feat. Advance into Abrupt Champion or Swiftblade (if Ranger Wizard spells count as Arcane) or Suel Arcanamach?

Depends if you want to end with 9th level spells.

Warblade1/Wujen9/JPM10 will give you that.

Or a more combat oriented character.

7th level spells would be

Warblade5/Wujen5/JPM10

5th levels spells would be

Warblade9/Wujen1/JPM10

After that it's all about working around the build to get nice TOB stuff but since JPM counts as full toward initiator level, it shouldn't be too hard.

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Originally Posted by Starbuck_II

Mystic Ranger [favored enemy (arcanists)] with Sword of Arcane Order feat. Advance into Abrupt Champion or Swiftblade (if Ranger Wizard spells count as Arcane) or Suel Arcanamach?

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sorry, but i think im going with warblade/spellcaster/jade phoenix mage.

warblade/wizard/jade phoenix mage
a nuts combo i feel for sure. what i want to change is the wizard part. i really feel that for flavor reasons, it should be a spontaneous caster, and am here to ask the boards if other casters are worth a look?

i feel that the battle sorc fits. for those of you unfamiliar with it, go here http://www.systemreferencedocuments....attle-sorcerer. it has a higher hit die, and can wear light armor with no spell failure. it is super limited in its spells however, something sephiroth wasnt (he had damage and flight/teleport spells, right?). the problem is that while id end up with 17 BAB, id only have 9th level spells

the others i can think of are wu jen, and wizard. wu jen would be good, because i am from an oriental part of the world we'll be playing in, plus it gets some nice abilities that totally syngergize with jade phoenix mage. it has a decent spell list with a lot of the same spells as wizard

wizard is the complete opposite of what i feel fits here flavor-wise, but probably has the most potential in terms of spells. but it just doesnt feel right.

details about the character:
numbers: 18, 18, 16, 16, 14, 11
race: female aasimar (no LA), with +2 cha, -2 con, OR +2 wis, -2 con.
GOOD, whether lawful or chaotic
starting at 5th level
i come from a samurai family in the world we'll be in, but will by no means be in an asian setting often.
this build could only be made with 3 base classes, and a prc. should i take a lev of samurai for the ancestral daisho, as well as flavor reasons?

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Originally Posted by DanReiv

Depends if you want to end with 9th level spells.

Warblade1/Wujen9/JPM10 will give you that.

Or a more combat oriented character.

7th level spells would be

Warblade5/Wujen5/JPM10

5th levels spells would be

Warblade9/Wujen1/JPM10

After that it's all about working around the build to get nice TOB stuff but since JPM counts as full toward initiator level, it shouldn't be too hard.

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yeah, i like combat oriented, but with high spells, which is why i think the battle sorc variant from unearthed arcana might just be the best choice. itd only get 8th level spells, but itd have a BAB 17/12/7/2 AND 8th level spells! im not sure id miss the 9th level ones if i can deal massive damage with my weapon while blasting- dont forget, itd also have (i think) an initiator level of 10, so it could use 5th level maneuvers.