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Still wouldn't be enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitten Champion
When Superman Prime can take on dozens of Green Lanterns at once and it isn't even a battle, I don't think so. There's a point to what creativity can do versus RAW power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayngfet
Everything to do with Superman Prime is jobbing. I can pull any page out of that fight and list a dozen issues. Same with the Prime vs Ion bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by SowZ
Geeze! Supes/ Lantern even Surpassed their Red-Son counterparts! Thats just even crazy!
It's not like Kryptonite is that accessible anyway (usually. Yes, yes I know.) Unless you're a supervillain with special resources, I guarantee that trying to acquire it will trip alarms and attract Batman's attention.
Which leads to a bigger question: Who are we? What resources do we have to take down the JLA? Even at its most common, common street punks can't usually get Kryptonite, except by random freak coincidences. As common as those sometimes are, we can't rely on them.
Otherwise, I mean -- my plan to beat Superman is to trap him on a planet made of Kryptonite, chained down using Kryptonite chains, orbiting a red sun, enchanted with magic that prevents him from ever leaving. Every inch of the planet -- which is bare and has no shelter -- is regularly struck by rains of kryptonite. Also the air is Kryptonite. And it's orbited by a moon of Gold Kryptonite. And the rest of the JLA is evil and on my side and have all decided that Superman must die, especially the ones who usually don't kill people. And all of them are made of Kryptonite. Also also, this story is being published after DC has been acquired by a billionaire who loathes Superman and everything he stands for.
Now, how does Superman survive this?
That last one is the thing that is really the only thing holding superman down.
He absolutely doesn't, he is most assuredly dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquillion
I literally have no idea where you got this from. Take a normal bullet. Replace part of the usual lead core that you find in the vast majority of bullets with kryptonite (i.e. make a kryptonite core inside the lead core). Proceed as normal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan
If you leave the tip of the bullet as a thin lead foil (although you'd obviously have to test the thing to make sure it was thick enough so that the shock of firing didn't break the foil), then you'd have a reasonable amount of velocity left when the kryptonite hits Supe's skin, and the kryptonite core will be pointy if you have any sense at all.
Why anyone would make a lead-jacketed bullet with a kryptonite core, I really don't know. It would suck both as a bullet and as a surprise, since the jacket often doesn't cover the entirety of the core.
I... buh... ebeh... WHAT?!?Quote:
Also Superman has fought Wonder Woman with Kryptonite /in his brain/ in the new 52. It makes him ill these days, but doesn't depower him.
Right, bugger this for a game of soldiers, I'm out. There's no point whatsoever in continuing this discussion, as Traab has apparently already enacted his plan, and Coidzor's fears have come true. The DCU has become the DBZU. Catch you on the flipside when all this idiocy has been retconned out.
Badly.
Again.
You'd think after this many reboots, they'd have some inkling of how to actually... y'know, reboot anything.
If you're only packing finger tips of kryptonite inside a lead core then the lead will malform and the round will ricochet like it normally does before the radiation weakens enough to do significant damage. At worst he'd have some severe bruising.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeChameleon
If lead was not a specific radiation block when it came to K, you wouldn't have that issue, but you're relying on the interior of a core that might not even expose it self on any given shot hitting him the first time, and then if it doesn't, him not noticing in the momemts before the next bullet arrives, which he should unless we're using gimped Superman.
Also him fighting Wonder Woman with Kryptonite in his brain:
Spoiler
He's also fighting batman and a bunch of other people.
Is the Kryptonite in his brain what is killing him, at least?
Eventually I guess. And geeze that writing. The dialogue feels like something from a silver age comic:Quote:
Originally Posted by SowZ
"No Il never let you marry Wonder Woman Batman! Even if that means I have to KILL YOU!" :smallyuk:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan
Wow, so defensive! I swear, any time someone doubts the awe inspiring majesty of your comic characters you take it as a personal attack. Your problem is, you cant avoid the extremes. Either he is an omnipotent god that sees all, knows all, and does all, every second of every day without break, without fail, and is sheer perfection. or he has to be a stumbling drunk with a brain defect. The reality is somewhere in between. When he ramps up to full power and focus, there is very little he cant do, and virtually nothing but the total destruction of all reality is going to do more than give him a headache. But he doesnt go around fighting full force at all times. Because he doesnt need to. While there is a list 100 names long or more of beings that can push him that far or close to it, there is an infinite list of far weaker threats that dont require him to go full force. One of his running themes has always been he ramps himself up to match or exceed whoever he is fighting. Its why in so many cartoons/movies/tv shows/comics he often takes several blasts from a super weapon. The first one knocks him for a loop, the second one he grunts and tanks, the third one he powers through and obliterates the weapon being fired. Its because he isnt going full power from the start. If he had been, he would have barely noticed said super weapon.
The best way to describe what im talking about is this. Lets say bruce lee is alive, in his prime, and ready to kick ass. A 10 year old challenges him to a fight. Obviously he isnt going to punch the kid as hard as he would an adult, he isnt going to take the kid seriously. That is the opening you get. Because as soon as he pulls out the gun he had hidden under his clothes he just became a real threat. If he times it right he can shoot him and win. If he times it wrong, bruce takes the gun from his hand and spanks him for the attempt.
There is a window of opportunity in which someone can attempt to enact their plan. The hard part is finding something that would actually work. The second hardest part is finding a way to set it up so it can work. Because as soon as he realizes you ARE a threat, superman will ramp up fast and spank you.
They were under the effects of Pandora's box which was leaking evil into the world around them making them all paranoid and crazy. But yeah bad writing also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon
There was this big mystery about why Superman was sick and dieing and No one thought Kryptonite poisoning. None of the readers assumed it because it was the first thing we expected them to look for so thought it was already ruled out. but NOOO The one thing they should have looked for was the one thing they didn't look for.
The writing still sucks. It still sounds like a Silver age Plot: "Superman is under the effects ofQuote:
Originally Posted by Devonix
Red KryptonitePANDORAS BOX and is spouting off stupid sounding lines!"
Like you could make a Silver Age "OMG Superman is CRAY CRAY" cover out of this.
And no dissing the silver age but when you'r writing seriously write with a modicum of effort.
It's never Lupus! Feels like this reference fits this situation, okay?Quote:
Originally Posted by Devonix
Ya'know, for all the talk of light-speed galaxy-sploding pow-ah, I don't see Superman turning Batman into an atomic smear across the cosmos along with all the matter that happens to be within the solar system he's in. I see the rather less impressive feat of breaking and throwing rocks around while the very much human Batman evades them.
Which, granted, is still more than I can do, but not what's been advertised.
To be fair, there have been plenty of personal insults against Fan in this thread. So, you know, it isn't that weird if he takes them personally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Traab
I'd guess there's too much chaos going around plus the kryptonite in his brain is keeping him from concentrating, forcing him to resort to brutish tactics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitten Champion
It's an event, and worse still it's a Justice League event written by Geoff Johns. Out of Character ridiculousness and jobbing are the baseline, not the exception.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitten Champion
So Fan's source which depicts just how strong Superman still is even under the influence of Kryptonite, that he can fight the Justice League with one arm behind his back, is itself a prime example of Supernerfing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayngfet
Wouldn't him becoming the Hulk make him more destructive? If we're assuming he can level continents and smoosh worlds, him losing control should mean apocalypse now and not mild concern over an idiot throwing a tantrum.Quote:
Originally Posted by SowZ
That one dude totally said he should die, and then presumably walked briskly away.
I don't know, people keep comparing it to DBZ, but in that series **** gets wrecked.
... wow, that was crap.
And the Atom and Metamorpho are apparently women now? Bold, risky manoeuvres there, DC. "Let's take some C-Listers that almost no-one really cares about and make them female! It's brilliant, I tell you!" At least Marvel made Thor a woman for their misguided, rather silly attempt at comic-book gender equality instead of, eh, I dunno, Speedball or someone.
... speaking of women, oi vey, Wondy. Someone get that poor girl some pants, or at least something that's not a thong. And I still don't like the silver-in-place-of-gold on the nu52 costume. It just looks... sort of desaturated, like there was a colorist's error. And the wonder-choker is completely ridiculous looking. Then again, ugly costumes seem to be de rigeur in the nu52. *sigh*
Huh. I hate myself for asking, but I can't quite resist. If all that stupidity's being caused by Pandora's box... shouldn't Wonder Woman (I keep wanting to call her Wonder Girl, she looks about 17 -_-;) know WTF is up with it, being, y'know, a Greek goddess and all? You'd think she'd have at least some inkling regarding it.
And while I'm hardly a ballistics expert by any stretch of the imagination, I'd think you could manage some way to get the kryptonite core to eject through the lead foil... maybe some harder material inside the lead to make a sleeve around the kryptonite so it would stop the main body of the bullet while the kryptonite shot free through the thin lead foil at the tip? The plan is kind of dependent on making sure the bullets work correctly, after all. Which is why one would test it first, before trying it out in combat conditions. Not that it matters, of course, since Superman is apparently now completely invincible to everything, including his traditional weaknesses.
Argh. I know I said I was done, but I can't seem to stop. The joys of geek arguments on the 'net, I suppose. Fan, you seem to be assuming that Superman cannot be surprised or misdirected. A fundamental part of my plan here is to make it appear that the gunmen are shooting at someone that the hypothetical supervillain comic-me is known to want dead, not Superman. The bullets, to him, are going to appear to be perfectly normal. There are very few reasons for him not to face-tank the bullets, especially if he's sending his usual 'you can keep your villainy out of MY city' message.
Also, if he's hit with something that hurts him when he's not expecting it to (like, say, ordinary-appearing lead bullets), his most typical reaction is to grunt with surprise and take a few seconds to clear his head. Normally not a big deal, unless you're being shot by a dozen or two guys armed with automatic weapons that happen to be firing your one weakness. Very rarely, especially in an ordinary-appearing situation- I'd be tempted to say never, but I can't claim encyclopaedic knowledge of the Man of Steel- does he simply shake off the pain instantly and obliterate whatever was hurting him.
But all that is somewhat moot, given that kryptonite rattling around in his brainpan is apparently no longer enough; bullets made of green k aren't even going to come close.
And oh dear LORD just give the poor man his briefs back already! The costume looks fundamentally unbalanced from a design standpoint, with the blue overwhelming the other colours. Insisting on 'underwear on the inside' (despite the fact that the briefs were never underwear, and weren't even briefs originally) just leaves the costume looking stupid. AGH!
And no, don't expect much love from me for the nu52 costuming. It's like the 90s are back, except we get stupid Tron-lines everywhere instead of pouches, and plastic Barbie-and-Ken faces instead of heavily crossthatched grimaces.
You'd basically need to design a whole new kind of bullet in order to both effectively hide the effects as well as deliver the crystal core without it shattering or losing force.
I'm gonna repeat my previous assertion that you should just cave in and use magic bullets. There's a wider range of magic materials than kryptonite variants, and a fair few enchanters who'd be down and can be much more easily contacted covertly.
Assuming Superman doesn't try something funny and just stands there, which he might, he wouldn't be able to tell that you've got a vague magical effect going. At that point you just shoot him and you'll at least get a bullet or two into his chest before he figures out what you've done and compensates.
If I remember right the current League hasn't really got a magic specialist(though I stopped reading a bit ago). They have people who use magic, like Wonder Woman, but nobody who understands the theory and applications of it beyond "use power, punch thing". So the moment you pull the wizard card you've basically won. Or the psychic card, since Aquaman and Green Lantern technically use mental powers, but again have no real understanding of the finer points, and a sufficiently strong psychic can beat modern Superman, as we've seen(how you're going to get someone like that on payroll, or boosting someone weaker, is your own problem).
Using conventional weapons is only going to take you so far. Eventually you will need to use ridiculous powers or a doomsday weapon.
I think that's an alternate universe Atom.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeChameleon
SpoilerAtomica, a spy from the Crime Syndicate of America (silver age ebil justice league, who get their Gritty Modern Reboot in the story ). The reason Superman has kryptonite in his brain, which is killing him by the way, is because she put it there.
Also, female Metamorpho is an old thing. Though probably mostly known now from her brief appearance in Sandman where she dies in a side story in Dream Country that focuses on Death doing her job. (It's a really good story, as most that involve Death were, though not quite as standout as The Sound of Her Wings, the story where most people say it took off). She was brought back after Flashpoint.
As for why Batman isn't already dead, Wonder Woman is running interference, and there's a strong argument for her being stronger than Superman in New 52.
Your thinking about the JLA issue where he were assimilated by the Maggedon device, right?Quote:
Also, I don't grab top shelf feats. The top shelf feats for Superman have him /towing around things bigger than the solar system/, and have him do it at faster than light speeds, have him absorbing entire stars made out of anti matter for durability, and magic being completely unable to touch him thanks to temporary protection from Zatanna and The Phantom Stranger. Him having a stronger will than Batman, and being able to stand up to Emperor Joker's Universal tier magic smack downs without dying.
As i understood it he were not towing that thing on his own, it were able to move by itself before that, he just helped it along, like if you put another horse before your carriage.
HEAR!Quote:
And oh dear LORD just give the poor man his briefs back already! The costume looks fundamentally unbalanced from a design standpoint, with the blue overwhelming the other colours. Insisting on 'underwear on the inside' (despite the fact that the briefs were never underwear, and weren't even briefs originally) just leaves the costume looking stupid. AGH!
It does look so stupid, whoever though of changing his costume without thinking things though deserve a swift kick to the nuts!
I guess it also does help that he has a few atoms worth of kryptonite in his head?Quote:
As for why Batman isn't already dead, Wonder Woman is running interference, and there's a strong argument for her being stronger than Superman in New 52.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lord_khaine
To be fair, everything about the New 52 deserves a swift kick in the nuts.
From Superman.
now I'm wondering what the heroes of Marvel and DC would themselves think of their companies constant reboots, pointless drama and character derailment.....
....and for some reason, I don't think they'd be happy.
I mean to name just one infamous example:
Spiderman: You made me make a deal....with WHO? ....over WHAT!? Dude! Whatever happened to "with great power comes great responsibility"!?
YOUR WISH IS GRANTED!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Raziere
Maybe for the movie versions, but not the comics....unless I just haven't found those yet....Quote:
Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon
It's not consistent. There's a part in either Batman-Superman or World's Finest (I forget exactly...they cross over a lot) where Superman voluntarily wears a kryptonite necklace to depower himself. The way he interacts with it depends on the writer and the demands of the plot. Just like it always has.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeChameleon
Bottom line, like 90% of the JL are so powerful you need to be capable of casually obliterating worlds just to have even a prayer of beating them. Even that isnt sufficient for many of them.
*EDIT* Killing them aside, I was curious. Lets say I had the ability to utterly destroy all matter including that of beings like superman within an arbitrary distance. It takes me one second to activate the skill. How much space would I have to destroy that superman wouldnt be capable of outrunning the blast? Basically, how far away can he travel in that second? Same question for Flash, if he is capable of running at those speeds through space. Would I have to destroy out to pluto? The entire milky way? More? A
I happen to have this saved, not a fan of the guy they got to be superman, but whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by GloatingSwine
Flash? You'd have to destroy reality. It's not a matter thing he can literally run himself out of the universe.
Superman? If he was aware of it, potentially the entire universe, if it's a light speed attack.