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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lord pringle
Was... was that the Bad Horse Chorus? So, if TED is Bad horse, then who is Fake Thomas Jefferson?
Yes, yes it is. And I have no idea.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
...who's Dr Horrible then?
perhaps a devil-tiger torn between love, and loyalty to the reclamation... and an ******* solar is his rival. Their fighting kills the mortal they both love, forcing the PHD of Horror into Malfeas forever...
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
this Dr. Horrible talk reminds me of these demotivators I made:
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
This thread is slowing and I'm re-reading my copy of The Black Treatise
So, let's try shaking things a bit and speaking of Those Solaroids Who Shall Not Be Named.
Did you see a player/ST character use Birth of Sanity's Sorrow in-game?
Do you have any cool examples you'd like to share about the forms and unique powers used by those under the spell's effects?
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SKarious
This thread is slowing and I'm re-reading my copy of The Black Treatise
So, let's try shaking things a bit and speaking of Those Solaroids Who Shall Not Be Named.
Hey, man, Abyssals made my top tier. Not cool. :smalltongue:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SKarious
Did you see a player/ST character use Birth of Sanity's Sorrow in-game?
Do you have any cool examples you'd like to share about the forms and unique powers used by those under the spell's effects?
I have not. Abyssals do indeed tend to be among the least-played of Exalts. Further, no one I've ever gamed with has used Sorcery, much less it's stereotypical Australian cousin. I even did a YuGiOh thing with task-bound demons in the last game I ran to get the players to realize how convenient it could be, but no one remembered they even had the demons most of the time. But yeah, no BOSS fights here. Don't think I'd ever use it as a PC either, since permanent costs are dumb, and I never use expendables. Except in Megami Tensei games. Those are stupid hard.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
they're the least played and least spoken of for a reason:
people insist that they only have two stories: long, hard and unfun redemption, or full on destroy the world villainy. NO middle ground.
are either these stories that particularly fun or interesting? well since Abyssals aren't talked about or played much….nope!
the Abyssals story is simply not interesting. as they are, they are a non-Exalt. a non-Exalt that doesn't actually do anything Exalted-y. oh and, there hasn't been a single Abyssal specific update or book for ten years, aside from a few charms and storytelling chapter from the Ink Monkeys.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
Whereas I'm just going to have to disagree with Raziere and maintain my long standing love for the Abyssals.
That said, Sorcery and Necromancy are really quite rarely used. Necromancy might show up a bit more in games where you actually have reason to go to the Underworld - it has instant transport charms to move you from Creation to the Underworld in its first circle - and maybe where you want to just summon an army of zombies for fun.
But really, honestly... every Spell you learn is an investment of time and xp that you didn't put towards getting a Charm instead. And 90% of the time, that's just vastly inefficient.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
Birth of Sanity's Sorrow? No, sorry - even if the alternative is death, I'm always going to doubt whether its use was justified; as such, I would never bother learning it in the first place.
Necromancy, though? Sure, I've used it a few times, even. And not just the broken spells like Shattering Void Mirror, either. I'd like to see more done with it, though.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lord Raziere
they're the least played and least spoken of for a reason:
people insist that they only have two stories: long, hard and unfun redemption, or full on destroy the world villainy. NO middle ground.
are either these stories that particularly fun or interesting? well since Abyssals aren't talked about or played much….nope!
the Abyssals story is simply not interesting. as they are, they are a non-Exalt. a non-Exalt that doesn't actually do anything Exalted-y. oh and, there hasn't been a single Abyssal specific update or book for ten years, aside from a few charms and storytelling chapter from the Ink Monkeys.
You know, I've never played Exalted, and probably never will unless someone else is willing to teach me how to play and ST a game for me, but the one thing that might make me consider trying to get into a game would be the opportunity to play an Abyssal who takes Option 3: figure out how to euthanize the Neverborn without taking out the rest of Creation with it. No desire for "redemption;" he doesn't care about anyone from his pre-Exaltation life enough to want to get rid of his immortality along with his Resonance. When/if he succeeds in his goal (I remember reading somewhere that an Abyssal would still have Resonance etc... if the Neverborn finally died for real, so I assume it's doable if only by ST fiat), he simply says goodbye to his companions and departs for the Underworld, possibly becoming King of the Dead, never troubling the living world again in either case.
...See, if I can come up with this and I'm not even a huge fan of the setting, I assume someone more versed in the metaphysics and history could come up with something more elaborate. It seems a shame to just dismiss the idea of vampire god-kings out of hand like that. :smalltongue:
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CN the Logos
...See, if I can come up with this and I'm not even a huge fan of the setting, I assume someone more versed in the metaphysics and history could come up with something more elaborate. It seems a shame to just dismiss the idea of vampire god-kings out of hand like that. :smalltongue:
That is largely how they played in 1e, and were acclaimed for it.
In 2e, though, the system makes them little more than solars with thick eyeliner, and the resonance system pretty much plays the game for you where "kill stuff" is concerned. There is a book with alternative Creation settings, Shards of Exalted Dream, with new rules for resonance that happen to be pure awesome. I recommend them in every game.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CN the Logos
You know, I've never played Exalted, and probably never will unless someone else is willing to teach me how to play and ST a game for me, but the one thing that might make me consider trying to get into a game would be the opportunity to play an Abyssal who takes Option 3: figure out how to euthanize the Neverborn without taking out the rest of Creation with it. No desire for "redemption;" he doesn't care about anyone from his pre-Exaltation life enough to want to get rid of his immortality along with his Resonance. When/if he succeeds in his goal (I remember reading somewhere that an Abyssal would still have Resonance etc... if the Neverborn finally died for real, so I assume it's doable if only by ST fiat), he simply says goodbye to his companions and departs for the Underworld, possibly becoming King of the Dead, never troubling the living world again in either case.
...See, if I can come up with this and I'm not even a huge fan of the setting, I assume someone more versed in the metaphysics and history could come up with something more elaborate. It seems a shame to just dismiss the idea of vampire god-kings out of hand like that. :smalltongue:
well yeah, that is pretty much exactly what I'd want to play to.
but there is a chunk of people, who like that there is no third option for Abyssals….I personally don't get that, but they genuinely want that, and they genuinely want to play an Abyssal with no middle grounds and as soon as you say "third option" they go "but then the Abyssal I want to play DISAPPEARS" and its just annoying to talk to them because they won't budge on it.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
On an unrelated note, do people find Summon Elemental or Demon of the First Circle More useful?
I am inclined to think Elemental save for the reduced summoning time.
Incidentally, why didn't Exalts summon and task bind all of the not particularly useful higher souls of the Yozi to hold up rocks in some manse in the middle of nowhere? Seems like that would have neutered the Yozi's ability to act in the world. You could even make an art gallery of it, a third circle with its seven souls around it in elaborate poses. The number of Yozi is finite, so this wouldn't take very long to do. They might have kept some demons, like that one that makes manses, free.
Heck, task bind all of them to one giant never ending make work project like creating MM and artifact components forever if you want them to at least be useful.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
Most Powerful Souls can Co-Locate, and if necessary the less powerful ones can be killed and reformed. Plus, doing so would remove useful tools for other Exalts, which would annoy them to no end.
As for the spells...Demons are bound more tightly, generally have less repercussions for their use, and come in many, many more varieties.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
Because that would mean Exalted sorcerers would be out of luck in the future if they ever wanted to bind a Second or Third Circle demon for something, and the Exalted of the First Age didn't consider the Yozis and their souls a threat. At all. Given that this project would by definition have to be undertaken by Exalted sorcerers, who have no serious incentive to do it and some very compelling reasons not to, you can see why it didn't get done.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
oh uh yeah well…
the Yozis can possess their souls and break free from the bindings kay? only one at a time though
that means, including their Third Circle Souls.
and now imagine a Solar summoning a Third Circle Soul. thats risky, cause the Yozi might decide to possess that soul, and go on a rampage.
there is a reason why Salina made that Calibration Feast thing: so that foolish Solars with Solar Circle Sorcery don't summon Ligier for whatever inane experiment they are planning on Calibration, thus allowing Malfeas to possess Ligier and run free, as a powerful near-Incarnae-level spirit.
that and you will always have that one Solar who skipped the history and occult lore lessons for too much sword practice and might come across those souls and be all like "oh hey cool, I'll kill them all and get rid of the Yozis forever! they can't defend against me cause they are still after all"
and proceed to make a bunch of new Neverborn, thus causing more breaks in reality which you don't want,
or y'know, something similarly stupid and Creation-wrecking like that if you leave the demons in Creation too long, I mean even First Circle demons have their quirks and such that could cause them to run rampant or cause problems, the higher souls probably do to….
that and the souls might not all be known? it takes a lot of studying just to know the names of the Demons your summoning and such, it might take a lot of years, maybe even centuries to get all the info on the souls of the Yozis and even then, the Yozis are not friendly or like sharing info, even at the best of times and will generally cause environmental hazards and such you have to avoid and evade along the way, which might trash your notes if your not careful and you to go back and take them all again, furthermore the souls very presence might have harmful effects on the environment or something…
there is probably a lot of reasons.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
I suppose that leaves another interesting question. Could you require a soul to allow itself to be immersed in vitriol so you could use it as an exotic ingredient in your artifact? (Requiring it to get into the frame might be enough). If you did this, would the usual reform ability of higher souls apply? Would it break the normal connection to the yozi? What happens if you do it to a fetich? (I know, the Yozi would most certainly not let you get away with that, but being hypothetical)
The reason I ask about the spells is that I have a solar who is pretending to be a lost egg. Various elemental charms (yasal crystal) seem like they would make the ruse much easier as after you demonstrate that you can shoot blasts of water you get a pass so long as you don't start glowing golden I would think. Then again, could you play off a solar anima as a fire aspect anima if you threw in some fire?
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
Generally not without some kind of mind-altering magic. Also, the caste mark on your forehead would be a dead (hah) giveaway. But yes, a yasal crystal with an imprisoned elemental would be a useful misdirection.
As for binding demons to serve as components... you know, I'm not sure. Normally, suicidal orders are considered unacceptable orders, and even unnatural mental influence won't do anything unless it's explicitly capable. On the other hand, sorcerous binding isn't like most unnatural mental influence.
Likewise unsure about whether Second/Third Circle souls used for helltech and the like regenerate. My thinking is that they don't - they're not actually dead, after all. (So using a fetich wouldn't do anything special, except make at least one Yozi very, very angry.)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The_Snark
Generally not without some kind of mind-altering magic. Also, the caste mark on your forehead would be a dead (hah) giveaway. But yes, a yasal crystal with an imprisoned elemental would be a useful misdirection.
As for binding demons to serve as components... you know, I'm not sure. Normally, suicidal orders are considered unacceptable orders, and even unnatural mental influence won't do anything unless it's explicitly capable. On the other hand, sorcerous binding isn't like most unnatural mental influence.
Likewise unsure about whether Second/Third Circle souls used for helltech and the like regenerate. My thinking is that they don't - they're not actually dead, after all. (So using a fetich wouldn't do anything special, except make at least one Yozi very, very angry.)
Well, it can't be too terrible, Ligier has used his own souls so I suppose he can just bring them back. Or he is insanely dedicated to his craft.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
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Originally Posted by
Exthalion
Well, it can't be too terrible, Ligier has used his own souls so I suppose he can just bring them back. Or he is insanely dedicated to his craft.
I believe Hellforged Relics say that to make high level ones a Yozi has to "sacrifice" a high circle Soul. So while those with a Sapience rating are not dead but bound, I don't think they can ever be released.
Though I doubt the Yozi would give up their 2nd/3rd circle souls without the ability to replace them, so I'd say making them into an artefact severs their connection to the Yozi (letting/forcing them to replace them with a similar but new soul), with their position as that artefact's little God allows them to sustain themselves once seperated without dissolving.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
Out of curiosity, if you were to transfer Charms into pokemon moves, what would transfer as what?
I'm kinda toying with hacking one of the 3rd Gen games so that you play as some sort of Exalt going around beating the **** out of Pokemon, but I kinda need help with movesets (I kinda know what the Yozi movesets; or at least Adorjan's: I'm thinking that Fly, Aerial Ace, Whirlwind, and Quick Attack are a good start...)
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lord pringle
Was... was that the Bad Horse Chorus? So, if TED is Bad horse, then who is Fake Thomas Jefferson?
I have a magnificent heavenly palace in Yu-Shan, It's really lovely. We can go any time we like...
Can we, Malfeas?
ANY TIME WE LIKE!
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
Is it wrong that I imagine T-Rex from Dinosaur Comics as having the same voice as Malfeas?
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Exthalion
On an unrelated note, do people find Summon Elemental or Demon of the First Circle More useful?
Both have their uses. Summon Elemental has the advantages of reduced casting time and the ability to summon something more powerful than a first circle demon, but Demon of the First Circle provides a longer service time, and is never going to result in the intended demon saying, "Nah, I'll send one of my subordinates instead."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Exthalion
Incidentally, why didn't Exalts summon and task bind all of the not particularly useful higher souls of the Yozi to hold up rocks in some manse in the middle of nowhere?
Why bother?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Exthalion
Seems like that would have neutered the Yozi's ability to act in the world.
Again, why bother? The Yozis aren't a threat. [/FirstAgeHubris]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Exthalion
The number of Yozi is finite, so this wouldn't take very long to do.
Well, let's assume that one Solar in ten knows Solar Circle Sorcery. That's probably overdoing it, but let's go with it for now. Let's say that half of them know Demon of the Third Circle, and one-third of them know The Time Is Now, to summon a Third Circle Demon without it being Calibration. That means that you have five Solars capable of summoning a Third Circle Demon each month, and ten who can summon one each year. Supposing they coordinated their efforts, and no one else thwarted them, and every attempt successfully bound the demon instead of messing up horribly, they'd lock up ninety demons each year.
Now, Malfeas supposedly has the most Third Circle Souls, numbering at twenty-three; let's say the average is fifteen. It would take about four years of effort to successfully bind away all the Third Circle Demons of all the Yozis. The Second Circles would take even longer, because while you could get other Exalts to summon the Second Circles, their numbers are far more vast.
And for what? Remember that many of the souls of the Yozis can co-locate, meaning that summoning will not inconvenience them in any significant way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Exthalion
Heck, task bind all of them to one giant never ending make work project like creating MM and artifact components forever if you want them to at least be useful.
Giving Ligier free reign to build something is, umm, a pretty bad idea.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
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Originally Posted by
TheCountAlucard
Both have their uses. Summon Elemental has the advantages of reduced casting time and the ability to summon something more powerful than a first circle demon, but Demon of the First Circle provides a longer service time, and is never going to result in the intended demon saying, "Nah, I'll send one of my subordinates instead."
Why bother?
Again, why bother? The Yozis aren't a threat. [/FirstAgeHubris]
Well, let's assume that one Solar in ten knows Solar Circle Sorcery. That's probably overdoing it, but let's go with it for now. Let's say that half of them know Demon of the Third Circle, and one-third of them know The Time Is Now, to summon a Third Circle Demon without it being Calibration. That means that you have five Solars capable of summoning a Third Circle Demon each month, and ten who can summon one each year. Supposing they coordinated their efforts, and no one else thwarted them, and every attempt successfully bound the demon instead of messing up horribly, they'd lock up ninety demons each year.
Now, Malfeas supposedly has the most Third Circle Souls, numbering at twenty-three; let's say the average is fifteen. It would take about four years of effort to successfully bind away all the Third Circle Demons of all the Yozis. The Second Circles would take even longer, because while you could get other Exalts to summon the Second Circles, their numbers are far more vast.
And for what? Remember that many of the souls of the Yozis can co-locate, meaning that summoning will not inconvenience them in any significant way.
Giving Ligier free reign to build something is, umm, a pretty bad idea.
I disagree that it wouldn't be entirely inconvenient, presumably there comes a point where the demons run out of bodies. The Yozi have a fixed number of Joten so presumably their souls also have a fixed number of additional exstensions.
Though upon consideration, this is more or less what they did with Malfeas already. At the point you are throwing the higher circle souls into the Green Sun, things have just gotten recursive.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
A demon can only be bound once, even if it's capable of colocating. If you try summoning Ligier while someone else is having him make them an artifact, it won't work.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kobold-Bard
Though I doubt the Yozi would give up their 2nd/3rd circle souls without the ability to replace them...
Actually, I suspect that's exactly why we don't see oodles of powerful Infernal relics. Sapient artifacts are powerful, especially when made from a powerful demon, but the cost is non-trivial.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The_Snark
Actually, I suspect that's exactly why we don't see oodles of powerful Infernal relics. Sapient artifacts are powerful, especially when made from a powerful demon, but the cost is non-trivial.
Just because you can replace something doesn't mean that doing so is easy, or that doing so is not wildly painful.
I can lose a third of my blood and replace it, but that doesn't mean I'm going to slash open my arteries on a regular basis, especially if the benefit to doing so is not direct.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
How much soak do objects made of magical materials have? I know they're hard to damage, but is that because they have really high soak or because they ignore damage?
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
Just as a random question...
Alright, so Exalted is strongly influenced by Wuxia. I'm kinda wondering what Exalted would be like if it were based more along Swashbuckling lines, or maybe those of a Picaresque novella.
Ooh, ooh, Penny Dreadful Exalted! You could totally make supplements on recycled newspaper, fill them up with whatever random rules that came out of the author's heads that week, and sell them for a quarter! You'd still turn a profit if you made this a sort of side venture, kind of like how WotC had their 3.5e articles.
Plus, for PDE, they could totally invent the most aggravating way to write a supplement... cliffhangers in the rules.
Tune in next time for the exciting conclusion of the rules for Clinching, indeed.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion XII: One More and Get a Free Deathlord
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Originally Posted by
Yuki Akuma
How much soak do objects made of magical materials have? I know they're hard to damage, but is that because they have really high soak or because they ignore damage?
Aren't Artefacts invulnerable? I'd call that having a Hardness of "One More Than Necessary, Yes Even Then".