Hey, don't knock it. Parson is the first person to jinx himself and be better off for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexei P
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Hey, don't knock it. Parson is the first person to jinx himself and be better off for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexei P
Ah, but Parson is pretty genre savvy. If you want an army to somehow pop out of nowhere that quote is pretty much your best chance of getting it... :smallbiggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexei P
Okay. Anyone else getting a Daemon vibe from Wanda?
Excellent comic. I had to laugh when I saw that army getting raised. Evilgasm and all that.:smallbiggrin:
The big issue I see coming is when Stanley comes back and says "Great job, I knew you had it in you all the time. Ok so, let me have the pliers now."
Wanda isn't really getting that Parson is different, she keeps seeing Parson within the framework of the rules. The same rules that allow Jillian to go free from the control spell. Her hubris, while not blind like Stanley's, leads her to think that she can conquer the world with her croakomancy and the pliers.
And she so far has started pushing Parson to go along, but she doesn't yet get that Parson could very well just decide to say no to something, since his goals might not be the same as hers, as she assumes they must be within the framework of Erfworld's rules.. The question is whether Wanda will react poorly at that moment, whether Parson realizes she will, and prepared he will be to deal with it.
There are those who understand that things are different and also, those that see things with an open mind. Vinny is one, as is "in your dirtz" and maybe Charlie.. though Charlie might just be suffering from the same Hubris that Wanda is, only with more subtlety.
I note that the ones who show excessive pride, even megalomania, - Ansom, Stanley, Wanda and Charlie are the same who control and own(ed) Tools of the Titans. I wonder if, like artifacts in role playing games, these things affect your mind.
And right you are*.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaed
I hope that, if she gets rezzed**, she'll have the decency to at least wear a name tag this time.
*: actually, I'm one of the fans, especially the reasons Ishnar gave in his post clinched it for me.
**: decrypt, uncroak, or whatever other kind of spell makes a croaked unit move on its own again.
Actually it's her fault, walking around in a red shirt (that matches with her red hair) without any name-tag.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonprime
I'll subscribe to this from now on...Quote:
Originally Posted by Spot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaed
She's bee around for quite a while actually. I believe the first time we saw her was at the war council discussing the "party platter" and Ansom's response.Quote:
Originally Posted by ishnar
She's been used fairly consistently in fact as the "questioner" of his plans, giving him the opportunity to explain his thinking to her (and the readers) without seemingly pointless exposition. While we don't know how "inconseqential" she has been to the RCC's strategy, as a narrative tool she certainly served a purpose to the story. Now that that part of the story is ended though I do not that purpose continuing, so no valid reason narrative for her being brought back. If Darth Unsom requires such a sounding board in the future, we have Parson to serve that role.
Thumbs up. I'm starting to like erfworld even more. Great story, great art.
Interesting. I wonder, has Ansom had a legitimate change of heart (a possibility we should consider despite the natural inclination toward skepticism), or is this a byproduct of being "decryptified"? Is Wanda putting words in his mouth, or does the spell make him naturally predisposed to siding with whoever cast it?
Similarly, does this mass rez get Parson "off the hook" for killing everyone in the first place? He had just finally started to consider the morality of his actions in full, and now suddenly it seems it might not matter. Most of the people he killed are back and they seem more or less the same, so is it a wash? Or has this just exchanged one problem for another, since we have to presume that Wanda has some level of control (what degree has yet to be seen) over these decryptified, does that mean that Parson has effectively turned them all into her puppets? Is that going to start nagging at his conscience after a bit too? On the other hand, most if not all of them were already pawns of other powerful individuals, kings and warlords and such, so maybe it's all the same to them.
This changes the stakes for the readers too. In future conflicts, you need no longer worry that your favorite character may be killed. In such an event, Wanda will probably just bring them back. Of course, they might then be...different, than they were before. Is this in some ways worse than the possibility of death, or even uncroaking, in the first place? Do we want, for example, to see Bogroll back from the dead, or would we prefer to just let the poor guy rest in peace rather than subject him to this strange, unknown process that may have unintended (and possibly horrible) effects on him that are not yet clear to us?
Well if the pliers make the decrypted character loyal to Stanley's side, and considering that one of Bogroll's traits was his unquestioned loyalty, I don't see how the pliers would change him aside from taking away his upkeep.Quote:
Originally Posted by TamLin
Of course I would be pretty interesting if that pliers decrypted bizarro versions of the units. So that if Bogroll was decrypted he would become highly skeptical, not very loyal, and fastidious in his hygiene.
A few people seem to be overstating the power of uncroaked troops. If Erf follows the standard game principles, they have drawbacks.
No morale bonuses, (or penalties) period. For most games, morale is as powerful as any other type of bonus, and never getting it at all makes your entire army kind of lukewarm. Also, any living units in the same army will have their morale bonuses destroyed by the allied uncroaked.
Units cannot be healed of damage except by powerful, non-conventional magic. Any units lost cannot be recovered. Ansom the Obedient? After a few battles he will look a little hacked up, unless the turn reset magically applies to uncroaked as well.
They have extra weaknesses to things like fire and holy magic. They have no particular strengths except immunity to things like diseases and mind-spells. (fear)
They cannot follow complex instructions, usually.
Etc. Bottom line is that a tool like the Hammer is drastically more useful in a real strategic situation. It lets you build up a strike force of appropriate size, crush enemies, and collect appropriate resources in the conventional way. The Pliers, on the other hand, require a war already underway, and enough allied troops to actually win the current battle. The pliers do nothing any time the enemy is stronger than you are, because you will lose more of your undead than the enemy will lose living troops.
I hope Gobwin Knob hasn't become Silver Age Superman.
You mean "All-Powerful to start with and able to pull new plot-device powers out of the super-heiney at will"? Agreed. They should have to work for world conquest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovaltine Patrol
Ansom's new attitude - I think he doesn't have a "new attitude". I think he was restored to full consciousness with Loyalty to Wanda. He immediately tried to rationalize this with his self-image of being "the Vessel of the Titans' Will". And he succeeded in making up a rationalization that he might believe whole-heartedly.
At least until it leads to him having to face off against his homeland's armies and his friends on a battlefield. Then we'll see some emo.
Hmm... Wanda and Parosn appear to convinced Ansom of the one thing that Jillian could not: that being royal was no big thing... I wonder how it will change things between them when they meet again? In addition to or in opposition to the hundred and one other factors which will change things between them?
Ansom is even more irritating now then the first time around. And I notice that he is talking to Parson as is Parson was the boss and that his loyalty is to him, not Stanley or Wanda.
As for Wanda, I think many people are underestimating her. The "world wished for Parson" line and the prediction about the 'pliers comeing to her is solid evidence that she is after something different than her own person power. For her power is just a tool to achive a much greater aim. The real question is what are Wanda's long term goals? She seems to be on the same page as Janis, but we don't know if they have the same endgoal.
Parson has a new army to work with and he clearly is not heck bent to take over the world. Besides in a game of combat, taking over the world is the goal to win. Parson was brought in the BREAK the game.
I don't necessarily mean that Ansom has had some kind of magical compulsion to change his point of view (though it is possible that this has happened - just as it's possible that some weaker version, a kind of magical nudge, could have happened). It could just mean that being brought back by a literal tool of the Titans means he has to believe that decrypting him was the right thing to do, and thus has to (force himself to?) align his thoughts those who were responsible for his return. Really, it's hard to say at this point - and I do hope that ambiguity continues for a while. Dramatic tension...Quote:
Originally Posted by teratorn
Thank you! I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way...Quote:
Originally Posted by HandofShadows
Rob and Jamie have created their own unique world.. and then broke it :) It will be interesting to see how the following stories play out.
Personally, I am glad they didn't explain everything (world rules, etc) up front as that just takes away from the mystery and the fun of learning along with Parson.
It does seem clear that the events unfolding here all point back to Faq and their Predictamancer. I thought it very odd that their Predictamancer who was so good at getting Jack Snipe to the right city at the right time suddenly fails at an epic level so that Faq falls on one turn.
It seems that everything stems from an awesome and unbelievable prophesy. One that requires the fall of their own kingdom; for key Faq citizens to switch loyalty to an erratic foreign commander, and to risk everything including their own lives to meet their goal. Wanda was promised the pliers. Was Jack promised.. Jillian? or at least the rebuilding of Faq? Or was the goal not the survival of Faq but the philosophy/ideals of Faq? We will see..
Yeah, but if you think about it from the perspective of the people IN the combat game, winning is essentially breaking the game. If everyone's whole purpose of existence is to play this combat game and you then win the game, there's no more combat, no more reason for existing. That's about as broken as it gets. Not only that, but it fits with Janis' statement that if he breaks enough things there might be peace. What more effective way to ensure peace than to conquer everything?Quote:
Originally Posted by HandofShadows
Depends on your game. The Pope has a nasty habit of popping out again and again, with an army of 2000 knights, in Medieval Total War; plus there's the revolutions, uprisings, lost-and-found heirs for enemy sides (not to mention the Mongol Invasion) to keep you busy even when you own every patch of land on the map.Quote:
Originally Posted by datalaughing
Sizemore was already Mr. Exposition for Parson, and recent events seemed to indicate that he was going to redouble his efforts on that end, I wonder if he'll have to compete with Ansom or if they'll become buddy-advisers to Lord Hamster.
I like her angry faces.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaed
Perhaps winning the game is Nirvana.Quote:
Originally Posted by datalaughing
The forces involved in this war were relatively small. The entire RCC army was under 10,000 troops. We must assume it represented a significant proportion of the armies of each of the coalition partners -- perhaps 50%? Of course a small army is perfectly effective in a war involving small armies.Quote:
Originally Posted by ishnar
Being the world is a game there may be game-like restrictions on the size of armies. A computer game has a limit on the size of the memory register. Advance Wars won't let you create more then 50 units. A boardgame has a finite number of counters.
In the army, a sergeant might ask his captain for orders or discuss tactics with him. That doesn't mean the sergeant is disloyal to the colonel of the regiment.Quote:
Originally Posted by HandofShadows
Wanda, Parson and now Ansom are all on the same side as far as we know, which is Stanley's side.
I don't think the symbols, such as the skulls on Ansom's tunic, are very important. I think warlords can choose their own symbol and it is transferred to the lower level troops they command.
A lot of people have been saying that either Wanda will now rebel against Stanley (to gain the Hammer and greater power) or that Stanley will put down Wanda (maybe even disbanding her) to gain the Pliers and affirm his belief that he should have all the tools.
None of that makes a lot of tactical sense. Stanley is a powerful warlord, even more so with the Hammer, and can pop/tame dwagons. He is an immense asset to any side (provided his ego is kept in check by good advisors/warlords). Wanda is a powerful caster, even more so with the Pliers, and can decrypt fallen units (making them, in many ways, as strong as ever). She is an immense asset to any side (provided she is not given completely free reign, and is balanced by more people-oriented allies).
If Stanley kills/disbands Wanda (or takes the Pliers from her somehow) then he loses one of his most powerful units (maybe his most powerful) as well as an intelligent advisor and commander. Plus, he loses the power of the Pliers; it's almost certain that he can't wield both at once, and that he won't attune to the Pliers. Getting rid of Wanda robs him of her utility as a caster, advisor, commander, and Tool.
If Wanda kills/overthrows Stanley (or takes the Hammer from him somehow) then she loses one of her most powerful combat units (maybe her most powerful) as well as a good commander and sizable leadership bonus. (Yes, Stanley is a good commander - that's how he rose in the ranks and became a warlord, then chief warlord, then found the pliers - just not a good overlord). Plus, she loses the power of the Hammer; it's almost certain that she can't wield both at once either, and that she won't attune to the Hammer. Getting rid of Stanley robs her of his utility as a fighter, warlord, easily-manipulated overlord, and Tool.
In either case, the side is stronger and more likely to achieve Wanda's/Stanley's goals if they work together, each with his/her own Tool.
The hell are you talking about? Ansom wasn't pretentious at all in the last strip. Your apparent pre-existing prejudice against Ansom doesn't dictate reality; precisely how was he acting pretentious in that strip? If anything, he admitted he was wrong and was rather humble. Furthermore, I'd like to think Parson is very much so amused.Quote:
So even death can't change Ansom. He's still a pretentious prick, but spouting "darksider" wash this time. Parson isn't amused. But Tool certainly will be...
For some reason your argument reminded me of Honor of the Queen. Where an economist argued that two warring religious factions wouldn't go to war because it didn't make economic sense. Both sides were sustenance economies but all of their spare GNP was being fed to their war machine. More specifically, one side said they would nuke the other side's homeworld to oblivion, and the other side believed them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anias
More concisely, Emotion trumps reason. No matter how many reasons there are for people to work together, greed, hate, envy, or anger can have a greater influence on the results than any potential good.
Wanda driven by emotion? Nope. Maybe in her aims, not in her means.Quote:
Originally Posted by ishnar
And personally don't think she want to be an overlady (?). She can have some puppet (Stanley/Jillian/Parson/Ansom/Banhammer?) serve under her as her boss. That gives her the time to pursue her hobbies. What's the point in ordering some infantry around and waste time with other overlords, when one can master the forces of life and death?
1. No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minion992929
Parson, however, is.
2. I hope so.
Book 2?
SpoilerI think it likely that Parson and Sizemore take the dwagon and escape Wanda to rejoin Stanley as barbarians, fighting against Wanda and her army of super-decrypted.
I strongly suspect that one of the features of all the Arkentools is "Bearer will stop at nothing to get the other Arkentools". Charlie did bite pretty hard on the possibility of getting the 'pliers, and made it a part of his bargain with the first time he headbutted the ground.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axl_Rose
What strip were you reading?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansom