Re: Master of One [ToB PrC]
Two comments. (Yes I know this was a finished PrC that's being reposted after it got lost on the WoTC board): First:
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Though all adepts have tremendous mental focus, a Master sees the entirety of combat as just another exercise of concentration. A Master of Diamond Mind no longer automatically fails attack rolls on a natural 1, nor automatically succeeds on a natural 20.
I don't really see the point of the second bit and this is the only one of the 9 that gets a drawback.
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Masters of One are particular enemies of Masters of Nine, and most will attack a Master of Nine on sight.
This seems to presume a high degree of violence and a general lack of ethical tendencies. Maybe just move them generally 1 step closer to hostile?
Re: Master of One [ToB PrC]
I tend to agree that that seems a little ridiculous.
Also, I think this is impossible to enter. Is it even possible to choose only maneuvers from one discipline by level 9 or later? Let's see.
Crusaders at 9th level get two maneuvers from each of 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th levels, plus one from 5th. OK, this is possible with every discipline they have access to, whoo. Rough, though; you're taking pretty much every maneuver the discipline has available.
A 9th level Swordsage has four 1st level maneuvers, and 3 of each of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, plus one of the 5th. But only Desert Wind and Shadow Hand have more than 2 maneuvers of 2nd level, and Shadow Hand only has 2 non-stance maneuvers of 1st level.
If you took away an extra 2nd maneuver instead of 1st, you have 5/2/3/3/1 - great, but no discipline has five non-stance maneuvers at 1st level (actually, Desert Wind is the only one to have five maneuvers, including stances, period, at that level).
So a Swordsage could be a Master of Desert Wind, but nothing else, as there simply aren't maneuvers to take. Whoo. A Swordsage/Bloodclaw Master could maybe pull off Master of Tiger Claw?
Warblade, I imagine, has the easiest time. At 9th, they have one maneuver from 1st and 5th, and two from 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. OK, they can also do it with every discipline.
So, alright, Crusaders and Warblades can do this, with difficulty. Outside of Desert Wind, though, Swordsages can't. I think that requirement needs reworking.
Re: Master of One [ToB PrC]
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Originally Posted by
DragoonWraith
So, alright, Crusaders and Warblades can do this, with difficulty. Outside of Desert Wind, though, Swordsages can't. I think that requirement needs reworking.
Hmm, maybe just require them to have all their maneuvers of their highest level be from that one discipline?
Re: Master of One [ToB PrC]
Building on what DW mentioned, maybe consider allowing for a minimum of non-favored maneuvers for the Master of One? Either 3/4s or just a simple majority should work, as there are 9 disciplines anyhow and having at least half come from your BFF-one should suffice. The exact wording could use a hammer, admittedly.
However, if you did intend for it to be more in-line for non-swordsages, may I consider increasing the BAB to good?
Re: Master of One [ToB PrC]
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Originally Posted by
JoshuaZ
Two comments. (Yes I know this was a finished PrC that's being reposted after it got lost on the WoTC board):
Well, this isn't the final version (the wayback machine only had an earlier draft), but it is a repost. Doesn't mean I'm not open to feedback.
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First:
I don't really see the point of the second bit and this is the only one of the 9 that gets a drawback.
Diamond Mind has several maneuvers that let you make Concentration checks instead of attacks or saves, which are mostly used (at least in my experience) to avoid rolling 1s; what this is essentially supposed to do is turn every attack roll into something like that. On further reflection, though, this should be phrased as a "may" ability rather than a "must" ability, so I'll change that.
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This seems to presume a high degree of violence and a general lack of ethical tendencies. Maybe just move them generally 1 step closer to hostile?
That works too.
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Originally Posted by DragoonWraith
Crusaders at 9th level get two maneuvers from each of 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th levels, plus one from 5th. OK, this is possible with every discipline they have access to, whoo. Rough, though; you're taking pretty much every maneuver the discipline has available.
That's sort of the point. :smallwink:
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Warblade, I imagine, has the easiest time. At 9th, they have one maneuver from 1st and 5th, and two from 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. OK, they can also do it with every discipline.
So, alright, Crusaders and Warblades can do this, with difficulty. Outside of Desert Wind, though, Swordsages can't. I think that requirement needs reworking.
Two things. First, it was intended that it be easier for crusaders and warblades to get in, since Masters of Nine are easier for swordsages. I probably should have stated that at some point, but I figured it was a minor point.
Second, keep in mind the Special clause:
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If a martial adept wishes to become a Master of One but has already learned maneuvers of multiple disciplines, he may undergo a process known as the Epiphany of the Way. He must seek out a Master of the discipline he wishes to choose as his favored discipline as well as a cleric able to cast atonement; after 8 hours of meditation and the casting of atonement, the prospective Master of One may swap out any maneuvers from other disciplines for maneuvers from his new favored discipline (though he must still meet any and all prerequisites for the new maneuvers).
You don't necessarily have to take only maneuvers from one discipline from level 1, so it's a bit easier than it first appears.
EDIT: ...hold on a second. :smallsigh: In the final WotC draft, there was an ability that let you take stances instead of maneuvers and vice versa, and a clause to that effect in the Epiphany of the Way, so I've been counting total number of maneuvers without considering which are stances. In that case, yes, it's pretty much impossible to make it in as a swordsage. Since I don't want to change one of the abilities back to that one, I've loosened the entry requirements and changed the flavor accordingly.
Re: Master of One [ToB PrC]
Re: Master of One [ToB PrC]
Is that one maneuver from each of the unfavored disciplines, or one total? Anyway, I think it helps quite a bit.
Re: Master of One [ToB PrC]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DragoonWraith
Is that one maneuver from each of the unfavored disciplines, or one total? Anyway, I think it helps quite a bit.
Pretty sure he means one each otherwise the bit about having the highest two levels have to be all from the favored wouldn't make much sense.
Re: Master of One [ToB PrC]
Yeah, but that's not what it actually says, RAW. It says "one from any of the other disciplines", not "one from each of the other disciplines". As it's currently worded, it's a total of one maneuver, period.
Re: Master of One [ToB PrC]
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Originally Posted by
DragoonWraith
Yeah, but that's not what it actually says, RAW. It says "one from any of the other disciplines", not "one from each of the other disciplines". As it's currently worded, it's a total of one maneuver, period.
I have no idea what you're talking about. *cough cough* It now says one from each.
Re: Master of One [ToB PrC]
Does the Diamond Mind Rivalry reduce the total damage taken to 0, or just remove the multiplication?
The Unparalleled Prowess ability for Falling Anvil:
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Falling Anvil: A Falling Anvil madman is often hampered by the very madness that protects him, but a Master of One can sometimes channel the zaniness to a more benign form. Any and each time a Falling Anvil maneuver they initiate would cause a bad effect they are allowed a Will save versus a DC of 14 + Maneuver Level to negate this effect. No Maneuver may be used to alter or effect this will save. Example: If they are under the effects of Pull Yourself Together, then each time they are struck with a slashing weapon they are allowed a DC 19 Will save to have the cut close up mere inches behind the weapon as it travels through their body. Similarly, if they are in Not Looking Down they may choose to not be flat-footed against any given attack, but after the attack resolves, they must make a DC 22 Will save or fall. In the case of the Give Bomb, Give Bundle of Dynamite, Give Box of Dynamite, and any similar maneuvers maneuvers, if the Adept loses the opposed bluff check, the object created disappears after the Adept yanks the fuse(s) out.
My first idea was to give them full immunity to the side effects of their maneuvers, but since I consider Falling Anvil pretty powerful, I thought that would be overkill, here it is basically saving against the DC of the maneuver, but with a static 18 initiating stat. At higher levels this might become trivial, but I think that is perfectly fine, and even a 5% failure chance can induce some dramatic tension and/or caution.
And here is my best guess at a Focused Rivalry ability:
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Falling Anvil: A Master of One using this ability gains immunity to all non-damage related effects of Falling Anvil strikes. For this purpose bypassing damage reduction is considered a damage related effect, and thus not protected against by this class feature. This includes the trip attempts of banana peels, and the rough terrain genertated by many of the higher level _______ Drop maneuvers.
Balance-wise I am not sure of this, but since it turns the 9th level strike into a mere standard attack, I think it has strong possibilities. If it needs to be a bit stronger I could reverse the bit about DR (not useful to most Masters of One) and/or have it grant resistance to each energy type against damage from Falling Anvil maneuvers (which would be especially effective against Accursed Thunderhead since that deals both Electricity and a small amount of Sonic damage).
EDIT: Master of One seems to be missing class-skills and skill-points per level! (Now fixed)
EDIT^2: Added more clarifying language to the Unparalleled Mastery and Focused Rivalry stuff above.
Re: Master of One [ToB PrC]
Also, what may be one of the board's quickest produced prestige classes...
Adept Hunter
“You handle a blade well... tough luck for you.” —an Adept Hunter
Becoming an Adept Hunter
Most Adept hunters are simply Masters of Broken Blade who decide to continue their training to become skilled against a greater variety of opponents.
Entry Requirements
Special: 5th level Master of One in Broken Blade.
Skills: Martial Lore 17 ranks
Adept Hunter
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Maneuvers Known|Maneuvers Readied|Stances Known|Special
1|+1|+2|+0|+2|1|0|0|Focused Rivalry, Path of the Foes
2|+2|+3|+0|+3|2|0|0|Focused Rivalry
3|+3|+3|+1|+3|1|1|0|Focused Rivalry
4|+4|+4|+1|+4|2|0|0|Focused Rivalry
5|+5|+4|+1|+4|1|0|1|Dual Defense[/table]
Skills:
Knowledge[local] (Int), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str) plus the associated skill for each discipline you know at least one maneuver from.
Skill Points: 4 + Int
Class Features
The Adept Hunter on learning an every increasing tricks to combat other martial adepts.
Maneuvers: At each level, you learn one maneuvers from any discipline. You must still meet the maneuver’s prerequisite to learn it, and you add your full Master of One levels to your initiator level to determine your total initiator level and your highest level of maneuvers known. Thanks to Path of the Foes an Adept Hunter may learn a maneuvers from any discipline, including through feats such as Martial Study (provided all the requirements of that maneuver are known). At levels 2 and 4 you may swap out maneuvers known, as per the standard mechanic for swapping maneuvers. In no case may either learning a maneuver or swapping a maneuver result in your knowing more than 2 maneuvers from any given discipline OTHER than Broken Blade.
Stances Known: At 5th level, you learn an additional Broken Blade stance. You must still meet the stance’s prerequisite to learn it.
Focused Rivalry (Ex): As per the Master of One ability except that you must know at least one maneuver from a discipline to select it.
Path of the Foes (Ex): Learning a non-Broken Blade maneuver no longer causes you to lose your Master of One abilities.
Dual Defense (Ex): At 5th level you are better able to deal with even well diversified martial adepts. Each time you enter the Focused Rivalry stance you may select two different options, and benefit from both of them simultaneously. You may change one or both of your selections as per the usual mechanics for changing stances.
Playing an Adept Hunter
Most Adept Hunters are simply driven to "be the best in the world", others are vengeance seekers against martial adepts as a whole. Some few are the enforcers of various organizations of martial adepts, hunting down apostates and traitors.
Combat
As per Master of One.
Adept Hunters in the World
See "Playing an Adept Hunter"
NPC Reactions
Most people cannot tell the difference between Adept Hunters and any other adept of the Sublime Way, and even adepts often don't know the difference between Masters of the Broken Blade, and Adept Hunters.
Adept Hunter Lore
Characters with ranks in Martial Lore can attempt to learn more about Master of One.
DC 15: Though most martial adepts learn maneuvers of several schools, Masters of One focus on one favored discipline to the exclusion of all others, gaining benefits from their devotion.
DC 20: Masters of One believe their favored discipline is the only “true” path of the Sublime Way, and they learn special tricks and techniques to specifically counter other disciplines’ maneuvers and remove their own. favored discipline’s weaknesses.
DC 25: The maneuvers of a Master of Nine are more powerful and effective than the same maneuvers used by any other martial adept, and Masters of One have the potential to learn every single maneuver of their favored discipline, sometimes learning the same maneuvers more than once.
DC 40: Information about Adept Hunters in your campaign.
Re: Master of One [ToB PrC]
Draco, that's going to require working out what the Focused Rivalry and Unparalleled Prowess should be for the Broken Blade. But I like the idea.
I'd maybe have the max number of maneuvers you may have known from any other discipline increase by 1 at each odd level. So up to 2 at 1, 3 at 3, and 4 at 5.
Re: Master of One [ToB PrC]
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Originally Posted by
DracoDei
Does the Diamond Mind Rivalry reduce the total damage taken to 0, or just remove the multiplication?
Just removes the multiplication. I'll rephrase it to make that more clear/
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And, since it is needed, here is the Unparalleled Prowess ability for Falling Anvil (naturally we should try to complete the class for as many homebrew disciplines as possible):
Whoa there. I think keeping it to the base 9 for right now is the best bet; if I were to make abilities for the other disciplines, things could get out of hand.
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EDIT: Master of One seems to be missing class-skills and skill-points per level!
Fixed.
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Originally Posted by JoshuaZ
I'd maybe have the max number of maneuvers you may have known from any other discipline increase by 1 at each odd level. So up to 2 at 1, 3 at 3, and 4 at 5.
Again, the idea is to focus on one discipline; the maneuvers from other disciplines are there mostly to allow you to get in, but once you're in you should be focusing on your favored discipline.
Re: Master of One [ToB PrC]
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Originally Posted by
PairO'Dice Lost
Again, the idea is to focus on one discipline; the maneuvers from other disciplines are there mostly to allow you to get in, but once you're in you should be focusing on your favored discipline.
My comment was in reference to Draco's PrC which uses Broken Blade.
Re: Master of One [ToB PrC]
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Originally Posted by
PairO'Dice Lost
Whoa there. I think keeping it to the base 9 for right now is the best bet; if I were to make abilities for the other disciplines, things could get out of hand.
I certainly never thought it should be YOU doing very much of it, if any at all. It would be very helpful for Age of Warriors. If you think it would clog up the thread too much I can move the Falling Anvil and Adept Hunter stuff to a separate thread "Expanded Master of One", leaving only a link behind. For convenience I might copy the mechanical aspects of your class there if you wouldn't mind. All of which is basically hypothetical since, personally, I don't see any reason to move anything, I am just offering the option.
As for the expanded list, JoshuaZ is quite right. The key reason I included that in MY PrC was that Broken Blade maneuvers have pre-requisites that include knowledge of maneuvers from OTHER disciplines.
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Originally Posted by
JoshuaZ
Draco, that's going to require working out what the Focused Rivalry and Unparalleled Prowess should be for the Broken Blade. But I like the idea.
Unparalled Prowess, yes. Focused Rivalry could be omitted at least for the moment (although doing so is kinda "lopsided"). In fact I think I know what Unparalled Prowess should be, and it helps both PrCs...
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Broken Blade: An adept of Broken Blade is normally distracted from focusing his energies by the need to study a wide variety of other paths, but a Master’s mind is unhampered by the need for such deep understanding. The maneuvers of a Master of Broken Blade have their requirements for maneuvers known from another discipline reduced by 1, to a minimum of zero.
That might be a bit underpowered, but it certainly is a critical ability, especially for base classes that have a very limited number of maneuvers known, and/or number of disciplines they have access to.
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Originally Posted by
JoshuaZ
I'd maybe have the max number of maneuvers you may have known from any other discipline increase by 1 at each odd level. So up to 2 at 1, 3 at 3, and 4 at 5.
That would theoretically let you get the 9th level maneuvers in many disciplines (rather than just Stone Dragon and Broken Blade). For this reason going up to 4 is a bad idea, but 3 might be OK. I think that stacked with my above change, it might be good, although it still sticks you with only low-level maneuvers and stances from most disciplines. Then again, some lower level maneuvers, and, in theory, all stances, maintain their usefulness regardless of level. Key example: The saving throw replacing maneuvers of Diamond Mind (and the parallel ones in Falling Anvil).
Re: Master of One [ToB PrC]
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Originally Posted by
DracoDei
I certainly never thought it should be YOU doing very much of it, if any at all. It would be very helpful for Age of Warriors. If you think it would clog up the thread too much I can move the Falling Anvil and Adept Hunter stuff to a separate thread "Expanded Master of One", leaving only a link behind. For convenience I might copy the mechanical aspects of your class there if you wouldn't mind. All of which is basically hypothetical since, personally, I don't see any reason to move anything, I am just offering the option.
As long as I'm not the one having to come up with all the abilities for however many umpty-bazillion disciplines we have, go right ahead.
Re: Master of One [ToB PrC]
Ok, well, here is something brain-stormy for Broken Blade Focused Rivalry:
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Broken Blade: You automatically succeed on all Will saves against Broken Blade Maneuvers. Twice per day you may chose to not count as a martial adept for purposes of Broken Blade Strikes or have a strike you are performing not count as a maneuver for purposes of Broken Blade Counters, Boosts, and Stances.
Should I drop the second part? Maybe just part of it?
Re: Master of One [ToB PrC]
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Discipline Strike (Ex): A 3rd-level Master of One has perfectly internalized the principles of his favored discipline. He takes techniques and footwork from various maneuvers and combines them to produce a strike that only an adept familiar with his favored discipline has a chance to counter. To use this ability, a Master of One makes a single melee attack with a bonus equal to the number of strikes of his favored discipline he has readied, with the bonus divided between an attack bonus and a damage bonus, as desired. For example, if a Master of Diamond Mind has readied 9 Diamond Mind strikes, the bonus would be +9; the Master could then make an attack with a +9 attack bonus, an attack that deals an extra 9 damage, or any combination of attack and damage totaling 9.
How often can you use this? Is it a once-per-encounter, once-per-day, once-per-hour, at-will, or etc. ability?
Re: Master of One [ToB PrC]
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Originally Posted by
TSED
How often can you use this? Is it a once-per-encounter, once-per-day, once-per-hour, at-will, or etc. ability?
At will. I'll rephrase it to clarify.
Re: Master of One [ToB PrC]
Here is what I have thought of for Steel Mountain. Again, these are thematics driven, not balance driven, but they should be good starting points at the least.
The Unparalleled Prowess ability for Steel Mountain:
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Steel Mountain: A steel mountain adept tends to lack some of the hitting power of their two-handed weapon wielding brethren, but you have learned to use your shield as a counter-weight to add additional force to your blows and block attempts to knock your weapon out of your hand, without impairing it from its defensive (or offensive) role. When using a shield, you may designate any one other weapon that you wield in a single hand. You count this weapon as being two-handed whenever it would be beneficial to do so, such as for your damage bonus when attacking with it, power attack, and disarm attempts. You may change which weapon you are so designating once per round on each of your turns as a free action.
And here is my best guess at a Focused Rivalry ability:
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Steel Mountain: If they insist on getting all your attacks to hit their shield, then hit it you will! You gain twice your class level as a bonus on all to-hit, opposed checks, and damage rolls involved in a disarm or sunder attempt directed at a shield.
If this is overpowered I/we could limit it to functioning against the shields of people in a Steel Mountain stance, or with at least one Steel Mountain maneuver readied, but I don't think that is necessary. If this was a 10 level PrC I wouldn't have done the doubling thing, but as it is I think it is necessary to get such a weak mechanic up to usefulness.
Re: Master of One [ToB PrC]
Nero24200 author of Steel Mountain has given his approval with the following words:
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Looks fine to me. Feel free to add it to the class.
EDIT: And so as not to Triple (Quadrupal?) post, here is another discipline: Black Heron:
The Unparalleled Prowess ability for Black Heron:
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Black Heron: When confronted by those whose morals are middle of the road, or those who pursue Evil, but along a path that brings them into conflict with the Black Heron Adept, the strikes are not as powerful. A Master of Black Heron on the other hand, has such conviction in HIS brand of cruelty, sadism, and greed that he treats all targets as good for purposes of determining the amount Unholy damage they take from his maneuvers.
Keep in mind that this works against summoned elementals and most constructs, vermin, and animals, and not a few magical beasts.
And here is my thought for a Focused Rivalry ability:
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Black Heron: You take half the unholy damage you would otherwise take. This means that if you are neutral or evil, you will generally take 1/4 the rolled amount.
I don't know how many sources of Unholy damage their are out their, so I don't know how powerful this is.
Also, it occurs to me that "Focused Rivalry" gets a BIT weaker the more disciplines there are, although a lot of the abilities have broader utility than just countering the specific discipline. Given that the idea here is that Adepts are supposed to be really common in this setting, I don't think this is much of a problem for AoW, since even the most obscure disciplines should come up once or twice in a given campaign.
EDIT^2: Also, the Tiger Claw Unrivaled Mastery ability actually penalizes you for having a higher BAB sometimes. "and the other attacks are made at the Master of One's lowest iterative attack bonus." so if you have a +10 you get your second at +5, but if you have a +11 you get your second at +1.