Relationship Woes and Advice XX: One X Short of an Awesome Title

Umm.... Well, it seemed like harmless fun at the time, and she laughed about it once I explained... and then told me that she had, in fact, expected me to cheat and that she would have in my situation.

Question: Do you think telling someone you love them can cause them to develop an interest at you? I am not talking about a case where you point out the obvious due to a clearly visible attraction but a case where the girl(or guy) in question is most probably not interested or not showing any signs even if s/he is indeed interested.

Probably not. At best, it will flatter the person, at worst, it will be MAJORLY creepy. The ONLY time it might work is if the person is secretly harboring a crush, but it will not cause an attraction to develop if one does not exist.

Well, I think similarly, but it seems I can't find another option which could be used instead, and I think not doing anything at all wouldn't cause anything(obviously). Thus, in a hypothetical case where person A likes/loves person B(whose feelings aren't quite obvious and most likely indifferent), there seems to be no way out but wait till the love/crush dies inside.

Person A should ask out Person B and hold off on the declaration of whatever (ideally before the whatever develops, really, but in the case you describe it seems a bit too late for that). Declaring your whatever for them will usually just create unnecessary pressure and awkwardness, especially if unreciprocated, and can come across as manipulative even if it is reciprocated.

Basically, start by implying your attraction for them and build from there.

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Originally Posted by Pheehelm

Basically, start by implying your attraction for them and build from there.

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OK, I've seen statements like this a few times before and they still confuse me. What difference does it make whether you say or imply that you are attracted to someone? It doesn't make a difference to how you feel about them, it doesn't change the fact that they now know, and I don't see any sensible reason why it would make them attracted to you if they weren't already.

I can't imply jack squat. Makes me feel like the proverbial "Nice Guy".

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Originally Posted by Objection

OK, I've seen statements like this a few times before and they still confuse me. What difference does it make whether you say or imply that you are attracted to someone? It doesn't make a difference to how you feel about them, it doesn't change the fact that they now know, and I don't see any sensible reason why it would make them attracted to you if they weren't already.

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Saying "I like you," is fairly different from lacing one's speech with playful teasing, compliments, and the various other forms of flirting.

Depends upon personal preference, but some favor the interpretation of trying out flirting and seeing how it's received before asking out the other party on the low level kinds of one-on-one interaction (coffee, others depending upon prior relationship and interests) as prepwork for a formalized date or going straight to asking the other person out on a date.

Sort of like the idea of putting a frog in room temp water and then turning it up rather than putting the frog into already heated water and having it immediately jump out again. Although in this case, instead of not letting the frog realize what's going on before it's too late, it's more letting the person process it on at least a subconscious level before they're put on the spot by saying something that they have to give a concrete answer to at once.

Generally less of a full-stop shock when someone who's been flirting with one's self for a week or a few weeks or X time period asks one out than when someone who has never expressed an interest towards or in one's self (or who has failed to show themselves to be a sexual or romantic entity, even) suddenly asks one out or declares an undying love for one's self.

Also, saying "I like you" out of the blue without any previous indication might be a bit unsettling for some people. Embarrass them and whatnot.

Hinting and flirting is generally seen as slightly more innocuous, and as Coid said, prepares the other party somewhat beforehand. Note that it might take a few weeks to be fully effective. And its fun! (mostly.)

Also, "love" is an incredibly strong word. I've scared off at least one former girlfriend by using it too early in the relationship.

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Originally Posted by Objection

OK, I've seen statements like this a few times before and they still confuse me. What difference does it make whether you say or imply that you are attracted to someone? It doesn't make a difference to how you feel about them, it doesn't change the fact that they now know, and I don't see any sensible reason why it would make them attracted to you if they weren't already.

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I, personally, prefer the indirect route (that's purely personal preference, though). Coid's frog analogy is surprisingly apt, actually. From my point of view, having someone directly state their liking of me/ask me out puts me on the spot, and forces me into a position where I have to make a decision one way or another. I tend to overthink things anyway, and there just isn't anything much very pleasant about it (except an ego boost, but I can get that through more subtle expressions of interest too).

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Originally Posted by Pheehelm

Person A should ask out Person B and hold off on the declaration of whatever

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Well, what would be the difference between asking out for a date and telling someone you're interested in them? I think they're not quite different, in fact, asking out on a date might contain more risk as it makes the burden of making a decision more obvious.

And I also agree with Objection, I doubt confessing your love/high level of interest to someone in a non-awkward way(that is, not making yourself look pitiful, not forcing her to make a decision and not making her feel bad for not reciprocating your feelings) would be less effective than giving hints.

That, and I am bad at giving hints in general.:smallbiggrin:

Hmm...

It might help to try to think of it less as giving hints and more about playing a sort of tennis to prepare the other party for exposure to the raw animal sexuality of declaring one's attentions/affections aloud and openly.

Or relationship foreplay.
Potential TMI tiemz!
If you say to me, "you wanna have sex?", I'll start overthinking it: I'm pretty tired, I've got work tomorrow, do I really feel like it? and so on. But if, instead, you start smooching and snuggling and... uh... etc., chances are pretty soon I'll be into it.
Same sorta thing with relationships as a whole.

IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: This absolutely does not apply to everyone. It's purely personal preference/opinion, an inside perspective on how it works. This is explanation, not advice.

Is definitely a trait that varies amongst women, as I've had significant others who could only be properly propositioned with a kiss to make such things register on their radar at all and SOs who viewed it as manipulative and anti-feminist to make out while randy without asking if sex was OK/on the table first.

Yeah. And sadly, it's something you can never know until after the time it'd be useful - unless it manages to come up in conversation somehow.
Realistically, the safest route is probably just to ask her out on a date. Not my preference, but ah well.

OK, so if stating it outright causes the other person to feel like they're put on the spot because they are now aware that you like them, why would implying it not have this effect? Are people too stupid to realise what you're implying until a few moments later?

EDIT: OK, perhaps "stupid" was the wrong word. However, this idea that stating it outright puts pressure on the other person to respond ... well, what's wrong with responding with an "I'll get back to you on that" or something similar? If they don't give you the time to think about it, give yourself that time.

Stupid? Perhaps not. It's just a matter of... er, "presentation", I think. People are weird that way. It amounts to the same thing in the end, but a bit of subtlety is generally better received at first.

In the same way that leading up to bad news is usually better than just blurting it out. (Not quite the most appropriate metaphor, that.)

Dunno why people act that way. Seems like they just do.

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Originally Posted by Objection

OK, so if stating it outright causes the other person to feel like they're put on the spot because they are now aware that you like them, why would implying it not have this effect? Are people too stupid to realise what you're implying until a few moments later?

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I could be entirely mistaken, but I think it's because when you say something like "I love you" there's pressure for the other person to respond with something similar (which they may not be ready for). When you're just implying it, there isn't that pressure anymore.

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Originally Posted by Objection

OK, so if stating it outright causes the other person to feel like they're put on the spot because they are now aware that you like them, why would implying it not have this effect? Are people too stupid to realise what you're implying until a few moments later?

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Flirting is sorta no strings. It can be relatively easily forgotten, unless they've got issues, and, well, anyone too bogged down by baggage to not flip out at someone for flirting with them isn't really relationship material anyway, so you've found out without also having them think you were necessarily serious with the worse reaction that implies.

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Originally Posted by Objection

well, what's wrong with responding with an "I'll get back to you on that" or something similar? If they don't give you the time to think about it, give yourself that time.

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Flirting is asking someone to play. Declaring that you like someone to their face is demanding satisfaction in one form or another.

Also, it is physiologically and psychologically stressful to be in limbo like that and to drag out a decision like that for both parties. Far too likely that the stress and pressure would preclude actual weighing of things and result in a no of convenience that, for convenience and stress's sake, will be unlikely to be re-evaluated when a different tactic could have gotten a more fair consideration.

And, well, it's not exactly the kind of topic that can really be ignored with complete tact. Putting someone on the back burner and never replying to them is kinda rude. Especially if one sees them often. Especially if one is interacting with them the next day. Or the day after that, and so on exponentially until it's a slap in the face faux pas and then one would be relying on their lack of confidence or life taking them out of one's life to prevent them from calling one on one's BS and instead have them let it die.

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Originally Posted by Objection

OK, I've seen statements like this a few times before and they still confuse me. What difference does it make whether you say or imply that you are attracted to someone? It doesn't make a difference to how you feel about them, it doesn't change the fact that they now know, and I don't see any sensible reason why it would make them attracted to you if they weren't already.

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Originally Posted by Maralais

Well, what would be the difference between asking out for a date and telling someone you're interested in them? I think they're not quite different, in fact, asking out on a date might contain more risk as it makes the burden of making a decision more obvious.

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Originally Posted by Objection

OK, so if stating it outright causes the other person to feel like they're put on the spot because they are now aware that you like them, why would implying it not have this effect? Are people too stupid to realise what you're implying until a few moments later?

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If I'm reading these right, y'all think I'm saying "imply your feelings for them instead of openly expressing your feelings for them." Other posters (mainly Coidzor and Nix Nihila) have explained my point pretty well, but I should clarify that the distinction I drew was between Person A announcing love/infatuation for Person B, and Person A simply asking out Person B thereby implying attraction but not necessarily love/infatuation. In retrospect, that humorously flippant "whatever" in my post before was probably misleading, since it was only meant to encompass the more intense forms of interest.

Rejecting can often be even harder than taking rejection, and rejecting someone who's just declared strong feelings (without being creepy about it, at least) is going to be harder than rejecting someone who's thought to be mildly attracted. That's also why even in the better case where it's at least partly reciprocated, it can seem manipulative -- intentionally or not, it can send the message "if you shoot me down, you'll break my heart. You don't want to be a heartbreaking witch, do you?"

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Originally Posted by Pheehelm

If I'm reading these right, y'all think I'm saying "imply your feelings for them instead of openly expressing your feelings for them." Other posters (mainly Coidzor and Nix Nihila) have explained my point pretty well, but I should clarify that the distinction I drew was between Person A announcing love/infatuation for Person B, and Person A simply asking out Person B thereby implying attraction but not necessarily love/infatuation. In retrospect, that humorously flippant "whatever" in my post before was probably misleading, since it was only meant to encompass the more intense forms of interest.

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Ah, this explains a lot. If the message that is being conveyed is different in each case, then it makes sense that the reaction will be different.

And just to make sure I haven't misunderstood, are you saying that the reason implying is more likely to get some kind of positive reaction is because the less obvious nature means that they don't actually know what message you're implying, and so do not feel the need to make an immediate decision based on that message?

EDIT: Seconding the post below.

Humans. Why are you so complicated?

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Originally Posted by Objection

And just to make sure I haven't misunderstood, are you saying that the reason implying is more likely to get some kind of positive reaction is because the less obvious nature means that they don't actually know what message you're implying, and so do not feel the need to make an immediate decision based on that message?

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I don't know if I'd put it that way, but I guess that could be part of it.

In any case, the emphasis in my post before was on conveying an indeterminate amount of attraction versus conveying strong feelings, not on implying what you feel versus overtly expressing what you feel. I guess if your way of asking out someone you know well is "you know, you're really cute, let's go get coffee together," that's fine too. It's just that typically asking someone out will convey attraction all by itself, making the overt expression redundant.

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Originally Posted by H Birchgrove

Humans. Why are you so complicated?

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Because many people are jerks, requiring other people to set up defenses against them, provoking the jerks to employ more sophisticated jerkery, requiring other people to set up more sophisticated defenses, provoking the jerks to employ more sophisticated jerkery, requiring other people to employ...

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Originally Posted by Pheehelm

Because many people are jerks, requiring other people to set up defenses against them, provoking the jerks to employ more sophisticated jerkery, requiring other people to set up more sophisticated defenses, provoking the jerks to employ more sophisticated jerkery, requiring other people to employ...

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...the Pheehelm? It beats grues, after all, it probably beats jerkery in a similar fashion. :smallwink:

Also, damn your signature. I actually had to go look under my bed because of it (didn't find anything, but I'm not discounting the possibility). :smallyuk::smalltongue:

Downer, vent-y post here. Sorry.
Non-verbal communication and I aren't friends. I hate hate HATE mindgames and "test" and hints and signals and all those things, because I often don't see them, and then people get hurt and angry, and I had no idea I was supposed to look for something and argh!

I'm a little extra upset about this today because this morning I found out that someone dear to me has been holding a grudge (over something I thought was irrelevant) for over a year without saying anything. It's really not a nice feeling to realize that you've hurt and partly driven away someone you care for without ever having a chance to fix things - and been too stupid to catch the hints, to boot :smallfrown:

I hate this feeling of walking on needles, and now I'm frantically double-checking all my relations to see if I can think of somewhere I might have hurt someone else. I'm an idiot.
And yes, I know they're an idiot, too, for not speaking up, but... blergh. Why is everything so much easier to see in retrospect?

Thank god most of my friends and family are able to speak up when I've messed up.

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Originally Posted by H Birchgrove

Humans. Why are you so complicated?

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A combination of different survival mechanisms combined with the capacity for abstract thinking and long-term memory, I reckon.

Any other day I'd throw in a "but that's what makes humans fun!" but today... yeah, I agree.

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Originally Posted by arguskos

...the Pheehelm? It beats grues, after all, it probably beats jerkery in a similar fashion. :smallwink:

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Not yet; humans haven't quite reached the level of sophistication where they crawl to me begging me to protect them from the jerks. Give 'em a few years.

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Also, damn your signature. I actually had to go look under my bed because of it (didn't find anything, but I'm not discounting the possibility). :smallyuk::smalltongue:

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1. I'm wondering if I should name the person who gave me the idea to put that there.
2. Grues reflexively flee from light, remember. That's why they're gone by the time you enter a usually darkened area with a lantern.
3. I didn't specify under your bed.
(In case anyone's wondering what we're talking about)


Glass Mouse -- sounds like there's not much you could have done, anyways, if they were being that obtuse about it. (RWA Rule #4 applies here as well.) What hints did they think they were giving?

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A combination of different survival mechanisms combined with the capacity for abstract thinking and long-term memory, I reckon.

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See, exactly like I said.

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Originally Posted by Pheehelm

Not yet; humans haven't quite reached the level of sophistication where they crawl to me begging me to protect them from the jerks. Give 'em a few years.

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Not... not even if I asked nicely? :smallfrown: I thought we were friends... :'(

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1. I'm wondering if I should name the person who gave me the idea to put that there.
2. Grues reflexively flee from light, remember. That's why they're gone by the time you enter a usually darkened area with a lantern.

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1. Probably. :smalltongue:

2. Yeah, I figure it was my whole "turning on a light" heresy. However, I kinda didn't want to be eaten by one, since you know, grues.
3. Where else are they gonna hide? :P
Glass Mouse, they made the choice to carry that grudge for a year and never say anything. You can't be responsible for that action. Don't let it weigh on you too much. Buck up, you're a good, fun, nice person. Don't let their foolishness get ya down. :smallwink:

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Originally Posted by arguskos

Glass Mouse, they made the choice to carry that grudge for a year and never say anything. You can't be responsible for that action. Don't let it weigh on you too much. Buck up, you're a good, fun, nice person. Don't let their foolishness get ya down. :smallwink:

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Thanks, arguskos.

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Originally Posted by Pheehelm

Glass Mouse -- sounds like there's not much you could have done, anyways, if they were being that obtuse about it. (RWA Rule #4 applies here as well.) What hints did they think they were giving?

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The obvious one is that they stopped calling me (but were still obviously happy whenever I called :smallconfused:). But it's more the small things, like being a little too busy too often and stuff. They did try to limit the consequences (probably so they'd avoid ever bringing it up), so I don't think it's as much a case of "you should've seen my hints!" as much as... pure avoidance, I guess.

You're right, guys. As long as I don't develop superhuman senses, I probably can't do much about situations like that.
It's helped a lot just to write it all down and get a shot of encouragement/realism. Thanks for taking the time.

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See, exactly like I said.

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Well, yeah, but I used fancier words :smalltongue:

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Originally Posted by arguskos

Not... not even if I asked nicely? :smallfrown: I thought we were friends... :'(

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Well I mean, I'm working my way up to attracting humanity as a whole's attention. What else do you think I'm doing here? Also, are you sure you explored all the dark places?

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Originally Posted by Glass Mouse

The obvious one is that they stopped calling me (but were still obviously happy whenever I called :smallconfused:). But it's more the small things, like being a little too busy too often and stuff. They did try to limit the consequences (probably so they'd avoid ever bringing it up), so I don't think it's as much a case of "you should've seen my hints!" as much as... pure avoidance, I guess.

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Yeah, that sounds less like "hints" and more like "passive aggression."

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Well, yeah, but I used fancier words :smalltongue:

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Oh yeah, well I used, uh...more words! That implied an infinite loop! So there!