Oh, sorry, I misunderstood the (x4) behind the Warband for meaning that there's four such Warbands for a moment. Silly me. :smallredface:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless Ghost
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Oh, sorry, I misunderstood the (x4) behind the Warband for meaning that there's four such Warbands for a moment. Silly me. :smallredface:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless Ghost
Corteaz does not, in fact, get Communion. Which would kind of invalidate the point of the two Inquisitors, which is to bring everything down on a 2+ on turn 2. Or automatically on turn 3. If I wanted to have Communion and get scoring Warbands, there's always the option of a Grandmaster. :smalltongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless Ghost
The only thing beyond the Communion+Servo-Skulls the Inquisitors have is Power Armour, which is pretty cheap. I might drop it if I find myself in desperate need of 16 points.
The Warband was a complete afterthought. I had 51 points left to spend and figured that a warband is about the only thing in the codex you can get for that few points. Might as well give the Inquisitors a unit to hide in. Two Crusaders to provide Invulnerables, a Warrior Acolyte geared to use up the odd 1 point spare (though I could dump the carapace for another body) and a Servitor with Multi-Melta 'cause, hey, I had 10 points left.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless Ghost
If you can figure out a better way to spend 51 points, I'm very open to suggestions. :smallbiggrin:
Oh, stat-wise you're very much better off with Henchmen or Power Armoured Grey Knights. But the models for them are the reason I'm playing Grey Knights in the first place, so their place at the core of my list is the only thing that's not open to change. Most of the list is just built around getting them to where they can do the most damage. :smallbiggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless Ghost
And yeah, Psycannons are 1 per 5 models.
They were put in based on a recommendation of more ranged anti-tank. If you think another Dreadknight or a Henchman warband would work better, I'm very happy to do that instead (I'm not exactly fond of power armour models). Any recommendations on what sort of set-up might work? :smallsmile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless Ghost
You can still be S10 if you want to wreck vehicles/ID Independant Characters. The Dreadknight only gives up one of it's Doomfists for the Greatsword, it still has the option of using the other. I reckon I'll give the sword it's fair chance before I trade it out. :smallbiggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless Ghost
EDIT Tweaked the list based on feedback. The Purgation squad have been ditched, there are now two shooty Warbands and the Inquisitors are toting Conversion Beamers.
Spoiler
HQ
Ordo Xenos Inquisitor - 109 Points
Mastery Level 1: Psychic Communion
Conversion Beamer, Force Sword
+Servo-Skulls (x3)
Ordo Xenos Inquisitor - 106 Points
Mastery Level 1: Psychic Communion
Conversion Beamer, Force Sword
+Servo-Skulls (x2)
ELITES
Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (x4) - 95 Points
Inquisitorial Servitor W/Plasma Cannon x3, Jokaero Weaponsmith
Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (x4) - 65 Points
Inquisitorial Servitor W/Multi-Melta x3, Jokaero Weaponsmith
TROOPS
Grey Knight Terminator Squad (x10) - 470 Points
Nemesis Daemon Hammer x1, Nemesis Force Halberds x9, Psybolt Ammunition, Psycannon x2
Grey Knight Terminator Squad (x10) - 470 Points
Nemesis Daemon Hammer x1, Nemesis Force Halberds x9, Psybolt Ammunition, Psycannon x2
FAST ATTACK
HEAVY SUPPORT
Nemesis Dreadknight - 185 Points
Heavy Incinerator, Nemesis Greatsword
TOTAL: 1500
Uh-oh. I just realized something. When do the models for units from a new xodex come out? So, for example, when the new Necron codex comes out (in July or August, I'd guess), how long until the models themselves come out? Because, for example, the dark eldar are only some of their new models now.
The models are released in waves. The first wave usually contains most of the standard choices in the codex and happens alongside the new codex, with additional waves covering other models at later dates.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squark
In other words, don't worry. :smallcool:
So, after your last feedback, here is my updated Space Marine list, enjoy :smallcool:
SpoilerWhite Scars 1500pts
In the name of the emperero, we shall hunt, for VENGANCE!
HQ 550
Korsario Khan
Comand Squad
Bikes
Chapter Standard
Power Sword x4
Storm Shield x4
Melta Bombs
Elites 370
Sternguard Veteran Squad (in razorback)
Extra Veteran
Multi-Melta x2
Sternguard Veteran Squad (in razorback)
Extra Veteran
Multi-Melta x2
Transports 150
Razorback
Twin-Linked Lascanons
Razorback
Twin-Linked Lascanons
Troops 370
Bike Squad
Aditional bikes x2
Power fist
Meltagus x2
Bike Squad
Aditional bikes x2
Power fist
Meltagus x2
Fast Attack 60
Landspeeder
Heavy Flamer
Aditional Heavy Flamer
Total 1500
Any more advices will be apreciated!, Thanks!
Khan is not a chapter master. I believe you've been told this once already. Also, demands are not the best way to get people to cooperate with you on the Internet.
i got the codex here, and i can get a comand squad with him, he is a captain thats all it matters. i know he is not chapter master, but the "master of the hunt"Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin
Also, read all literally and sriously is not the best way to read things in the internet, but ill edit if i ofended you
I'm not offended; I'm simply observing that it isn't the best way.
He is a Captain, not a Chapter Master. This means he can take a Command Squad, not Honor Guard. Also, you can't get transports separately; which units are they dedicated to? I assume the Sternguard, but it's best to list the transport with the unit it is for, rather than separately. If they are not dedicated to the Sternguard, you can't take them, since they aren't separate choices and nothing else in the army can take transports.
May I reccomend reorganizing your list to be more user friendly? Cheesegear wrote out an explanation of the proper way to write a list.Quote:
Originally Posted by pilvento
To summarize; Dedicated Transports should be with their unit's list (also, the precise number of units in each of your squads is always nice)
EDIT: Here's a walkthrough of the process, also by Cheasegear
I just wanted to say that I find these threads fascinating despite not playing the game :smallwink:
just a thought here but you do know that the Khan does not automatically come with his bike right, its an extra ~35 points.Quote:
Originally Posted by pilvento
also bikes are not meant for assault, they are far too expensive and IIRC their bonus toughness does not apply in CC, so take those PW/SS's away and give them plasmaguns to take advantage of their relentless rule.
if you want a unit like that for assault get an ordinary chapter master w RB/SS and his honour guard in a razorback, it would probably be about the same cost.
DM
just a thought here but you do know that the Khan does not automatically come with his bike right, its an extra ~35 points.Quote:
Originally Posted by pilvento
also bikes are not meant for assault, they are far too expensive and IIRC their bonus toughness does not apply in CC, so take those PW/SS's away and give them plasmaguns to take advantage of their relentless rule.
if you want a unit like that for assault get an ordinary chapter master w RB/SS and his honour guard in a razorback, it would probably be about the same cost.
DM
I'd switch the Twin Lascannons on the Razors to Lascannon and Plasmaguns. You've got plenty of anti-tank with the bajillion meltaguns*, so the plasmas would boost attacks against heavy infanty (GK termies) and light vehicles (three shots at close range). The LC/TLPG loadout is also superior in that it isn't knocked out with a single weapon destroyed result.Quote:
Originally Posted by pilvento
Only thing lacking is anti-infantry. I'd personally invest less in the command squad and buy more dudes. If you dumped the command squad you could get two more 5 man bike squads with twin flamers and have points left over.
Also don't forget to include any vehicle upgrades you've got, helps seeing where you've put points.
* I'm personally not a fan of the multi-melta on anything that isn't Relentless or a vehicle. Your Sternguard are going to have to spend a turn standing around doing not much (and hoping their target doesn't drive off) before they can use their multis as they are Heavy type weapons. Razorbacks also lack fire points so can't stay in their ride for protection and shoot out.
Plain ol' meltaguns would be a better investment.
Hey, I haven't played a game in about a year, so... :smallwink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Artanis
Here's a re-write of the list, putting everything on bikes:Quote:
Originally Posted by pilvento
SpoilerHQ [580]
Khan w/ Moondrakkan
Command Squad w/
-Apothecary
-Lightning claw, Storm shield, Meltagun, Melta bombs
-Lightning claw, Storm shield, Meltagun
-Lightning claw, Storm shield
-Power fist, Storm shield
(all different for wound allocation shenanigans)
Troops [670]
Bike Squad w/ 2x Meltagun, Extra bike, Multi-melta Attack bike
Bike Squad w/ 2x Meltagun, Extra bike, Multi-melta Attack bike
Bike Squad w/ 2x Flamer, 2x Extra bike
Bike Squad w/ 2x Flamer, 2x Extra bike
Fast Attack [240]
3x Attack Bike w/ Heavy bolter
3x Attack Bike w/ Heavy bolter
1490 points
It's all on bikes because you simply don't have points to bring a decent amount of armour with the Command Squad.
You have a lot of guns, all Relentless and capable of moving 12"+ a turn, Outflanking if necessary. The Command Squad acts as a defence for the other bikes, Hit & Running from combat to combat as necessary.
But by giving up the Command Squad, I came up with this bike-mech hybrid, which has more in common with your original list:
SpoilerHQ [205]
Khan w/ Moondrakkan
Troops [720]
Bike Squad w/ 2x Meltagun, Extra bike, Multi-melta Attack bike
Bike Squad w/ 2x Meltagun, Extra bike, Multi-melta Attack bike
Bike Squad w/ 2x Meltagun, Extra bike, Multi-melta Attack bike
5-man Tactical squad w/ Las-Plas Razorback
Elites [380]
Sternguard w/ 2x Heavy flamer, 2x Combi-melta, Rhino
Sternguard w/ 2x Heavy flamer, 2x Combi-melta, Rhino
Heavy [170]
Predator w/ Autocannon, 2 Heavy bolters
Predator w/ Autocannon, 2 Heavy bolters
1475 points
Tome:
I like that list considerably more now. It's a lot more focussed and is actually capable of providing the necessary support to your Terminator squads.
I'd be tempted to lose the Monkeys for ablative wounds for your heavy weapons though. It really doesn't take much to shoot 4 guys and an Inquisitor off the table when there's no other targets.
If you're in cover and can put wounds onto unimportant models, there's much more chance of surviving to keep blasting holes in things.
I believe he's trying to say that Company Commands cannot take the Chapter Banner, as you've tried to do. They can take the Company Banner, which is not nearly as good.Quote:
Originally Posted by pilvento
The toughness bonus of a bike applies to all situations except for determining Instant Death. Furthermore, Bikes are okay in assault, and as they are Relentless, don't lose any shooting capability for assaulting. They're also pretty good at picking whether they want to engage in CC or not, and as T5 MEQs, they'll beat just about anything that's not a dedicated Assault unit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius Macab
Well, I had an interesting evening.
I was playtesting a potential Tournament list (and I decided to roll with it) against one of the local strongest players Tau, that I have never seen lose a game, I've only ever drawn against him before and even then, I only had an immobilised gunship left, whereas he had most of his Daemons left (they just couldn't hurt me)
I won, which was nice. Me and my partner for the tournament then took our lists against each other. Ohhhh boy. has he gone shooty. By the time my gunships rolled up, I had one scout left. The rest died to a drop pod ironclad and shooting. The gunships and dreadnoughts proceeded to rip through his army, killing a Landraider redeemer (that toasted my Death company and Librarian after a bad Drop pod scatter), the Ironclad, immobilising his Vindicator, killing a Landspeeder and removing the Typhoon launcher from the other 2 while the Dreadnoughts killed his Hammernators, a librarian and a Tac squad. All for nothing as I couldn't get near his objectives, but still, a fun game.
My list, for the tournament (I can't actually change it now, so this is purely for interests sake but I can tweak it for next time if I need to.)
Spoiler
Librarian 100
Shield
Sanguine Sword
Elite
Librarian Dreadnought 175
Shield
Unleash Rage
Furioso Dreadnought 135
Talons
Heavy Flamer
Troops
Scouts 85
Sniper Rifles
Missile Launcher
Scouts 85
Sniper Rifles
Missile Launcher
Scouts 85
Sniper Rifles
Missile Launcher
Scouts 85
Sniper Rifles
Missile Launcher
Death Company 175
Power Fist
Power Weapon
Drop Pod
Death Company Dreadnought 135
Heavy Flamer
Heavy Support
Stormraven 230
Sponsons
Stormraven 230
Sponsons
Stormraven 230
Sponsons
What ? No flying Dreadnought ? HERESY ! It's going in the gunships, as I'm sure you guessed, providing some form of cover save if I have to go slowly. A rerolling to hit (if Unleash Rage gets cast) S!0 fist as well as a S6 force weapon was too tasty to ignore. The Librarian will roll with the Death company, providing a Magic Hat in the opponent's DZ and generally messing them up as best as they can. Strength 10 from the Sanguine Sword Hurts bad.
RAAAAAAAGHGHGHGH!!!!:smallfurious::smallfurious::s mallfurious::smallfurious:Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf
I want to face a BA player so gosh darn bad!!! *muttering*
Sorry bout that...anyway good luck at the tournament
While I wouldn't call it the 'proper way' to write a list, I would call it the 'easy and not-terrible and not-too-confusing-for-readers way'. However, I also know that it's fairly similar (but not exact) to the way that GW teaches newbies how to write lists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squark
As much as I love wound-allocation, with models with only one wound it doesn't really work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless Ghost
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1...woodpecker.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by Cheesegear
It would have though, if they didnt all have stormshields :smalltongue:Quote:
As much as I love wound-allocation, with models with only one wound it doesn't really work.
I think I actually saw math somewhere that indicated that it did at least some difference against massive dakka (the example was 30 wounds vs. 5 terminators), due to the fact that while each model will on average fail one armour save, some will instead fail two, while others will fail zero...Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesegear
Since I suck horribly at statistics (or, at least at calculating statistics and variances), and don't remember where I saw it, however, take it with a bit of salt...
Assuming two 3+ save models take four wounds...Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingScanian
If they are identical (two or more saves have to be failed for both of them to die): 11/27=40.74% probability for both of them to die (if I didn't miscalculate).
If they are different (both of them have to make two saves; in order for them both to die, both have to fail at least one of these saves): 5/9 probability for each of them to die individually, so 25/81=30.86% probability for both of them to die.
So, yeah, it improves your chances quite a bit. Though it makes the process of rolling saves for this unit incredibly tedious.
That it truly does. I would suggest getting "standard dice" for this unit, say three dice for each model, and mark these in some way, say, a small drop of color in one of the pips on each side, and then have the corresponding color on each model. If done somewhat carefully, it shouldn't change the balance of the die (suggestion: check this), and then it's always a matter of rolling red dice for the guy with a bit of red in the heraldry, blue dice for the guy with blue on his purity seal, and so on...Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterwind
Or just get the GW dice cube that has 5 different colours in it. I have no issues with this problem, my scout squads need 3 colours when I fire everything, Black is Sarge, red's a krak missile and 3 generic snipers are white
This is the basic way that I see most people fire weapons from a unit that has several different types of weapons. When it works, do it!:smallbiggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf
I've gotten so used to doing it that I just make every model different by default now. :smalltongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesegear
Regardless, the main set-up of the Command Squad is as I would run it. Could probably trim it to 4x Claws, 4x Shields, 2x Meltaguns if points were needed. Any less than that and you lose a lot of hitting power and find models die to overspilling power weapon wounds quite fast.
Wracks, Grotesques, heamonculii and the Razorwing are up for pre-order.
They are nice, especialy the razorwing.
Wracks and grotesques are nicer then the inital leaks showed but I'm still not sure about them.
This question will look incredible stupid, but im sorry cause so far i played eldar...
Comand squad:
lightning claw...15pts
Power weapon..15pts
so this space marine noobs has to ask: diference?
First of all, never EVER post the individual costs of wargear. EVER. GW doesn't like it, and there are forums that have been forced to close or are otherwise interfered with because people were revealing individual costs of gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by pilvento
To answer your question now:
Power Weapons (Powerswords, etc) deal wounds that ignore normal armor saves, and when weilded with an 'Additional Close Combat Weapon' (normally a pistol or a combat blade), grants an extra attack.
Lightning Claws are special powerweapons that ONLY grant extra attacks when paired with a second lightning claw. Lightning Claws also get to re-roll any failed roll to wound.
Interesting to note that the Grotesque will only be available through the web store.Quote:
Originally Posted by Borgh
Quote:
Originally Posted by pilvento
Power weapons are just that, so gain the +1 attack for two close combat weapons if the model has a pistol (or another power weapon for some reason).
Lightning Claws are power weapons that re-roll failed rolls to wound. However they only gain the +1 attack for two close combat weapons if the second weapon is also a Lightning Claw.
See page 42 in the rulebook for reference.
Edit:That hasn't happened in years, and given GW have articles on their site listing points, I don't think GiTP is going to get a C&D anytime soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hootman
Also, it's points from two of the most common pieces of gear found in half a dozen codexes - it's not like he's transcribing a leaked codex on the forum or anything.