[3.5/PF Feat] Tantric Preparation (Please P.E.A.C.H.)

Tantric Preparation (Feat):

A spell caster may cast a spell by boosting it tantrically. This involves a two-hour time span, a trained partner and 50 GP of incidental items expended in the casting (candles, wine, incense, etc.). Only one person needs to know the spell being cast but both participants must have the Knowledge (Tantra) skill.

At the end of the two-hour time span, the participants must make a DC 25 Knowledge (Tantra) roll and if successful, the spell is cast at an effective caster level of four levels higher.

The entire two-hour time span of tantric preparation is considered to have been part of the casting time--as such, the target point of the spell must have been a legitimate one throughout the entire process.

Tantric preparation cannot be used for spells of the Divination or Necromancy schools.

Seems odd to pigeonhole the ritual to tantra, mechanically this feat would be identical if the ritual taking place involved any kind of fluff, tantra, Hedonistic Consumption of Baked Goods, Sun Salutatory Dances, Dedicated Self Flagellation, Deep Laughing and Trickery Rituals, The Fierce Making of Fresh Bread, A Deeply Stoic Tea Ritual, and so forth.

That said, I don't see how this feat would be very fun for a player.
Seems like the sort of thing a DMM Persist Cleric may abuse to get a day long buff of divine power even better, but what is the intended use of this feat?
All in all, it's uses are niche, and welcoming to being OP.

Just my two copper painted wood pieces.

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Originally Posted by ChumpLump

What is the intended use of this feat?
All in all, it's uses are niche, and welcoming to being OP.

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I'm trying to work up mechanics for using tantra in game.

2 questions, is this then sexmagic?

and 2 why not divination?

Book of Erotic Fantasy, aka Book of Bad Sex, aka The Book that made WotC revise their 3pp licence terms berat you to it.

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Originally Posted by Thugorp

2 questions, is this then sexmagic?

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Yes.

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Originally Posted by Thugorp

and 2 why not divination?

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Divination is usually portrayed as something requiring meditation and calm so that the character can receive energies, portents, etc. from "the beyond". The divination and necromancy schools cannot benefit from tantric preparation because the raising of life energies within the casting subject is akin to shining a light into a camera lens, thus preventing effective divination, and likewise, the raising of life energies in the caster interferes with the gathering and focusing of those energies necessary for the casting of necromantic spells.

No, I get why not necromancy... though I think that excepting life's energy and(especially in the afterglow) hearing what the universe has to say, can be a part of deep passionate sex.... o.k. that is sappy, but think like this, haven't you ever imagined that you heard something, or maybe seen a really clear random image in your head right after orgasm? In some cultures I am pretty sure that at times these strange visions were thought to sometimes contained portents of the future.

HAY LOOK EVERYONE LOOK RIGHT HERE THIS IS ABOUT TO BE A CONVERSATION ON A GAMING SIGHT HAVERING VAGUELY TO DO WITH SEX!!!!!!! and not in a superficial look here for sexy pictures way! :-D :-p

It is a capital mistake to house-rule before one has the needs. Insensibly one begins to twist mechanics to suit fluff, instead of fluff to suit mechanics.
[/attempt at joke at Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's expense]

Tantra can work in many ways in D&D with the pre-existing abilities.

For example, a Cleric must spend 1 hour in deep prayer/meditation to/of their Deity/Philosophy/Cause during their peak hour. This hour of deep whatever is different for each cleric, and is heavily influenced by their dedication.

Alternatively, a Wizard spends 1 hour "reading" and preparing their spells a "spell book", with the spell "read magic," however alternate spell books have been proposed, the internal energies within the Wizard could be prepared via aided ritualistic movements and shared experiences. The reading, rather than being words, could be the reading of muscle memory and energy patterns in another.

Personally, I like options, and I tend to ignore or expand strict fluff limitations.

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Originally Posted by ChumpLump

Tantra can work in many ways in D&D with the pre-existing abilities.

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You are entirely correct, sir. However, given that I took the time to create a feat for this purpose and that I then created a thread to request assistance in honing the game mechanic I created, it should be evident to anyone that I have no interest in simply using the pre-existing abilities and simply fluffing them to my purpose.

To put it another way, I want mechanics for this so I'm making mechanics for this. The purpose of the thread is to gain the assistance of others so as to create the best mechanic I can. I have no desire to debate the wisdom in creating the mechanic. I've already made the decision to do so.

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Originally Posted by Thugorp

No, I get why not necromancy... though I think that excepting life's energy and(especially in the afterglow) hearing what the universe has to say, can be a part of deep passionate sex.... o.k. that is sappy, but think like this, haven't you ever imagined that you heard something, or maybe seen a really clear random image in your head right after orgasm? In some cultures I am pretty sure that at times these strange visions were thought to sometimes contained portents of the future.

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I see what you're trying to say here. I think--I think that "fictionalized tantra" is necessarily different in a world of dragons and magical flight and time travel and giant monkeys, than real-world tantra. That is to say, I envision that while in the afterglow of pleasant coupling one might feel a peace and serenity that leads one to a greater understanding of the universe, that the kind of "fictionalized tantra" that energetically allows you to throw a bigger fireball or a more powerful electrical storm--not that I'm recommending those uses--wouldn't be the sort that would lend itself to such serenity and peace. But I guess it's all in how you choose to play it.

I wasn't debating, I was simply offering advice, one homebrewer to another.
Isn't that a part of critiquing honestly? It ought to be.

If you want help with building mechanics for mechanics' sake, perhaps you could make more clear what the end goal is beyond "to create the best mechanic [you] can."

As said before the feat is either useless, or overpowered, with little in between usage. The DMM Cleric will eat it up, loving the +4 CL at the paltry extended casting time; whereas most other casters wouldn't want to waste the casting time on a spell that requires the target to be present and cannot be divination. The original question of the use of the feat is that I cannot fathom why anyone but the DMM Cleric would want it. If you could shed some light on that topic, perhaps I, or most likely others, could offer a better Evaluation and Honest Critique.

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Originally Posted by ChumpLump

I wasn't debating, I was simply offering advice, one homebrewer to another.
Isn't that a part of critiquing honestly? It ought to be.

If you want help with building mechanics for mechanics' sake, perhaps you could make more clear what the end goal is beyond "to create the best mechanic [you] can."

As said before the feat is either useless, or overpowered, with little in between usage. The DMM Cleric will eat it up, loving the +4 CL at the paltry extended casting time; whereas most other casters wouldn't want to waste the casting time on a spell that requires the target to be present and cannot be divination. The original question of the use of the feat is that I cannot fathom why anyone but the DMM Cleric would want it. If you could shed some light on that topic, perhaps I, or most likely others, could offer a better Evaluation and Honest Critique.

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Okay.

It is my intent to create a tool (or tools) that will reflect most closely in mechanics how I would imagine tantra to function in a fantasy universe. I have no specific end result intentioned other than to have a tool or tools that let a tantric character mechanically be able to answer the question "what can you as a tantric wizard do that Bob the ordinary wizard can't do?"

As such, I'm not concerned too much with whether or not most players would find any utility in that tool at all. As long as I have something, a specifically tantric something, that I can use and would myself find effective when building tantric PCs and NPCs, then I'll be happy. I am concerned with whether or not it's overpowered.

It was not my original intention that this be applied to divine magic in any case. Namely, because I was thinking of arcane spells being boosted by the application of additional energy which isn't something I would think would apply to divine magic being that it consists of prayer.

However, upon review, it occurs to me that you could take it as boosting the amount of divine energy that is capable of flowing through the priest/priestess and thus enabling a more powerful divine spell to be cast. Likewise, it could represent the priest/priestess making a better connection to their deity (particularly if we're talking about a fertility or love deity) and thus a more powerful spell could be cast.

As for specific applications, it seems to me that buffs of the priest or priestess, spells of protection, spells of travel and spells of enchantment would be useful applications of this technique. Divinations are largely done outside of combat anyway and increasing the casting time is no biggie for them. Boosting necromancy (in this fashion) is simply distasteful. And I certainly didn't want any TV sitcom shenanigans of couples meeting in concealed places or bathrooms only to open up a slit or a small door at the end and then blast someone with an evocation.

If by DMM Cleric you mean Divine Metamagic Cleric, it might be best to just say this technique doesn't work in conjunction with Divine Metamagic. I will admit to being at a loss as to why Divine Metamagic should be such a problem with this technique as it doesn't say anything that to my reading would negate the prerequisites of the feat, which would include the two-hour casting time and the target being legitimate throughout that time.

Well, you've succeeded at creating a tantra mechanic that isn't overpowered (albeit not a terribly useful one, but you have made clear that utility isn't your main concern) that separates tantra casters from non-tantra ones. You've achieved your goal I suppose.