Pokémon Thread XIV: Return of the Pokémon Thread Strikes Back Harder

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Originally Posted by Mando Knight

Crazy idea for Gen VI: starters are the pseudo-legendaries, and all evolve to X/Dragon final forms.

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Competent starters that aren't Fire/Fighting would be nice.

I'd like a non-legendary Fire/Dragon, too.

Grass/Dragon would be a pretty terrible typing, though. Weak to... Poison, Flying, Bug, Dragon and Ice (4x), and very little offensive synergy. Fire/Dragon would be pretty awesome, though. STAB perfect coverage goes a long way.

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Originally Posted by Othesemo

Grass/Dragon would be a pretty terrible typing, though. Weak to... Poison, Flying, Bug, Dragon and Ice (4x), and very little offensive synergy. Fire/Dragon would be pretty awesome, though. STAB perfect coverage goes a long way.

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And the Water dragon could have crazy high defenses.

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Originally Posted by Othesemo

Grass/Dragon would be a pretty terrible typing, though. Weak to... Poison, Flying, Bug, Dragon and Ice (4x), and very little offensive synergy. Fire/Dragon would be pretty awesome, though. STAB perfect coverage goes a long way.

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It's not quite perfect coverage unless you're Reshiram (Heatran is the only Pokémon currently in existence that resists it due to Flash Fire).

Also, the problem with Grass/anything is that Grass is a pretty lousy type in general. Note that Ferrothorn loses more than it gains from its Grass half resistances-wise, the only thing that it really gains from it are Leech Seed and a STAB attack with over 100 base power. (It also gets Ingrain, but that's less useful than Leech Seed)

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Originally Posted by Othesemo

Competent starters that aren't Fire/Fighting would be nice.

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My Empoleon is insulted by the implications of this comment.

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Originally Posted by Othesemo

Grass/Dragon would be a pretty terrible typing, though. Weak to... Poison, Flying, Bug, Dragon and Ice (4x), and very little offensive synergy. Fire/Dragon would be pretty awesome, though. STAB perfect coverage goes a long way.

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Grass doesn't seem to complement well with a lot of types, except Steel (which resists everything), and Rock (it removes Rock's weakness to Water and Grass.)

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Originally Posted by Geno9999

My Empoleon is insulted by the implications of this comment.

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Empoleon and Swampert are both competent starters in the current metagame that aren't Infernape or Speed Boost Blaziken.

Outside of the land of competitive play, though, most of the others can find a role and even be fairly good at them. Charizard with Solar Power can be potentially almost as strong as Reshiram offensively (and with BW2 out, can even learn Dragon Pulse if it needs to cover Dragons), Venusaur with Chlorophyll is surprisingly fast, Samurott and Emboar can run either attack stat effectively, not-Speed Boost Blaziken is similar to Samurott and Emboar, etc.

...Meganium is still pretty much the odd one out, though.

I'd say:
Make the starters pseudo-legends? YES.

Make them half Dragon type? No.

Too many Dragon types. I liked it when it was just one line per game, max, but now...

I really want a set of starters that has a super effective cycle in both directions.

For instance:

Water/Fighting
Grass/Dark
Fire/Psychic

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Originally Posted by Forrestfire

I really want a set of starters that has a super effective cycle in both directions.

For instance:

Water/Fighting
Grass/Dark
Fire/Psychic

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That has been suggested many times before. The eternal problem is that Dark is immune to Psychic. Also, I'm pretty sure (though I could be misremembering) that Fighting is resistant to Grass.

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Originally Posted by Qwertystop

That has been suggested many times before. The eternal problem is that Dark is immune to Psychic. Also, I'm pretty sure (though I could be misremembering) that Fighting is resistant to Grass.

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Huh? No. It resists bug, which might be what you're thinking of.

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Originally Posted by Mando Knight

Empoleon and Swampert are both competent starters in the current metagame that aren't Infernape or Speed Boost Blaziken.

Outside of the land of competitive play, though, most of the others can find a role and even be fairly good at them. Charizard with Solar Power can be potentially almost as strong as Reshiram offensively (and with BW2 out, can even learn Dragon Pulse if it needs to cover Dragons), Venusaur with Chlorophyll is surprisingly fast, Samurott and Emboar can run either attack stat effectively, not-Speed Boost Blaziken is similar to Samurott and Emboar, etc.

...Meganium is still pretty much the odd one out, though.

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I dunno, I was distinctly underwhelmed by Serperior and Sceptile (especially given their use as starters with which you can't breed the apparently better stuff on - double-especially for Treeko in it's initial generation) as well.

Grass is just kinda of a bad type, much as I hate to say it; I think the first generation had it right with all the Grass/Poison - sure, it didn't do 'em any favours defensively, but it did at least give them a few more offensive options.

(Bulbasaur is still the best out of the grass starters, I reckon, 'cos at least it gets some nice status attacks like Sleep Powder (hells yes, for a game-run through).)



But yeah, I'd go for ?/Dragon as starters. Heck, anything would be better than yet ANOTHER Fire/Fighting.



I still want to see a Fire/Water type (it'd be like a steam Pokemon or something).

Or an electric plant. Or an electric/Thing-That's-Not-Rotom. (Dark Electric, maybe?)

And some more pure Flying types.

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Originally Posted by Forrestfire

I really want a set of starters that has a super effective cycle in both directions.

For instance:

Water/Fighting
Grass/Dark
Fire/Psychic

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Originally Posted by Qwertystop

That has been suggested many times before. The eternal problem is that Dark is immune to Psychic. Also, I'm pretty sure (though I could be misremembering) that Fighting is resistant to Grass.

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Alternative choice on the same theme:

Water/Ice
Grass/Ground
Fire/Rock

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Originally Posted by Qwertystop

That has been suggested many times before. The eternal problem is that Dark is immune to Psychic. Also, I'm pretty sure (though I could be misremembering) that Fighting is resistant to Grass.

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I made the same mistake! It's the poison type common to most fighting types that resists the fighting.

Or, a different triad, Flying/Fighting/Ice, to be used alone or slipped in with something going the other way.



Also, some more "cute" type Pokemon (or at least those with non-terrible art design) that don't completely suck (e.g. more like Cinccino, less like Pachirisu), with particular emphasis on electric rodents (who've got really screwed in the last couple of generations). Since my Pikachus can't be Ash's Pikachu (who clearly has Mold Breaker as ability, with an inherent Lightball...)

Seriously though, there's been quite a few Pokemon, I've gone "oh I like the look of them" (Lopunny, Pachirisu, even Purloin/Liepard) until I realised how pants their stats/movepools are (to varying degrees); and on the other end of the scale, we have stuff like many of the fighting types or Stoutland, which are fairly good stat/move-wise, but I can't stand the design of.

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Originally Posted by Mercenary Pen

Alternative choice on the same theme:

Water/Ice
Grass/Ground
Fire/Rock

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Except that Fire gets the shortest stick. Both of the others get 4x super effective STAB against it.

My other thought was to have each one gain a secondary type that's another's primary... so we'd finally have our Fire/Water and Fire/Grass, and then have another choice for Grass/Water. It also works out that they're each 4x resistant to one of their types and neutral to the other two.

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Originally Posted by Mando Knight

Except that Fire gets the shortest stick. Both of the others get 4x super effective STAB against it.

My other thought was to have each one gain a secondary type that's another's primary... so we'd finally have our Fire/Water and Fire/Grass, and then have another choice for Grass/Water. It also works out that they're each 4x resistant to one of their types and neutral to the other two.

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That would be even better if they finally implement what I've been wanting since I realized that even with the same type combo, there's no consitency in order: Have which type is primary and which is secondary actually matter.

Why not...
Water/Bug
Grass/Electric
Fire/Dark?
Or perhaps Fire/Poison instead?

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Originally Posted by Mindfreak

Why not...
Water/Bug
Grass/Electric
Fire/Dark?
Or perhaps Fire/Poison instead?

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Works for me!

The latter is probably better option, though, both for type balance and the fact the flaming poison just seems all kinds of badass.

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Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander

Works for me!

The latter is probably better option, though, both for type balance and the fact the flaming poison just seems all kinds of badass.

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Oh man, that'd be awesome. And we might get one of those nightmare fuel Pokedex entries. Flaming poison seems painful as hell.

I'd imagine that it'd be a Pokemon that could exude the poison in a gaseous form or a liquid form, both of which it could ignite on will.

I myself would like a Pokemon game where the story is more directed towards your starters. I mean, after all, no one else in the whole REGION ever seems to have your starters other than your rivals. That in itself seems to be a bit strange.

I distinctly remember the Kanto games having several trainers with starters.

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Originally Posted by Forrestfire

I distinctly remember the Kanto games having several trainers with starters.

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I recall this more with Johto and Sinnoh games... but not Hoenn or Unova

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Originally Posted by Forrestfire

Oh man, that'd be awesome. And we might get one of those nightmare fuel Pokedex entries. Flaming poison seems painful as hell.

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I am now imagining a constantly burning Tar/Oil monster. It's expression is either one of sheer pain or pure malice. When it speaks, it spews horrid, filthy black smoke.

Another type combination I would like to see is a Psychic/Dark type. Maybe based off of a stage magician.

I don't like the idea of that...
Makes me feel like the Pokemon is just made to turn out evil. :smallfrown:

Anyways, I've always remembered the starters being rare to see with non-rival trainers. And that you'd never see them in the wild.
They're the Region's starters...but you never see them...

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Originally Posted by Geno9999

Another type combination I would like to see is a Psychic/Dark type. Maybe based off of a stage magician.

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YES. Maybe name it "Peller" (a portmanteau of Penn and Teller) or "Hoodyni" (a shout out to Harry Houdini. A Pokémon wearing some sort of natural hood, to justify both the name and the Dark type). I would think those two would be my favorites to have (maybe an evolution line?)

Well, that was cool. just swept Colress with essentially 1 pokemon. I went to see what he had to say, ready to decline his battle, but unlike most other named trainers around, he didn't give me the option.

So the Vaporeon I started with dented Magneton, then died. Then i sent out my Ferrothorn in training, hoping to stall until I got a better idea, then I realized he had pratically all steel, and my Zoroark had Nasty Plot, Flamethrower, and a lot more speed than anything.

Now I'm off to make use of my shiny new Master Ball.
:smallbiggrin:

When I see Fire/Poison I think of Mollux.

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Originally Posted by Geno9999

I am now imagining a constantly burning Tar/Oil monster. It's expression is either one of sheer pain or pure malice. When it speaks, it spews horrid, filthy black smoke.

Another type combination I would like to see is a Psychic/Dark type. Maybe based off of a stage magician.

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A Psychic/Dark stage magician, you say?

And a burning tar/oil monster?

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Originally Posted by tgva8889

When I see Fire/Poison I think of Mollux.

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Tomohawk is my favorite, fighting/flying with prankster? All my want.