Daddy's Home (Big Daddy Armor Stat Thread)

Hello again. I am still running pathfinder, but am able to use any system that is compatible.

That said; My GM is a stickler for rules.

"If you can find a legal way to do it, then its allowed, if its not RAW, it isnt." - My GM

Here is what im looking for:

Spoiler: Concept Stats

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Divers Plate

Cost: 5,000 gp

Weight: 200 lbs. while on land, 1/2 weight underwater.

Armor Bonus: +10

Max Dex Bonus: -2 while on land, +0 underwater.

Armor Check Penalty: -20 while on land, -10 underwater.

Arcane Spell Failure Chance: 70% while on land, 50% underwater.

Speed: 1/2 all speeds while on land, -5 ft land speed underwater (minimum 5 ft land speed).

The divers plate is always masterwork; price and benefits are subsumed in the above statistics.

A divers plate must be donned normally for it to be worn properly. But, it is a heavy armor, and requires help donning it properly. Any abilities that require it to be worn properly do not work while wearing the divers plate after donning hastily.

While worn properly and underwater, only half of the divers plate's weight counts towards your carrying capacity.

When worn properly, a divers plate can pressure-proof a wearer to a safe depth of 1 mile. Below that, the wearer and the divers plate start taking 1d6 points of pressure damage per minute. If the armor is breached, the wearer takes 2d6 points of pressure damage per mile below the water surface every round. Safe diving depth increases by 1 mile per point of magical enhancement bonus the divers plate has.

When worn properly, the divers plate holds enough air for a creature to breath normally for 10 minutes per point of Constitution Modifier. If a creature holds its breath, it may extend this duration, by an equal amount to the duration its breath is held. If breached, it leaks 2 rounds of air each round per hit point missing, in addition to the wearer breathing that round.

The divers plate sinks to the bottom and allows the wearer to walk on the bottom of pools, ponds, rivers, lakes and seas like it is normal ground. The wearer can hustle, but not run underwater. Sufficiently uneven ground will still count as difficult terrain.

The divers plate is insulated. When worn properly, the wearer is affected by Endure Elements but only for protection from Cold.

The divers plate gloves are too bulky for wielding ranged or light weapons unless they are especially made to be used in conjunction with a divers plate (double base price). However, the wearer can wield one-handed and two-handed melee weapons underwater without any circumstance penalties.

Now to make it legal.

I could definitely use help because i cant find, in terms of non-magical, ways of applying these bonuses.

Thank you in advance.

Try surrounding yourself with a sphere of glassteel that have no holes nor anything that allows air or water circulation.
Then you can go around in the ocean in your hamster-ball of glassteel.

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Originally Posted by noob

Try surrounding yourself with a sphere of glassteel that have no holes nor anything that allows air or water circulation.
Then you can go around in the ocean in your hamster-ball of glassteel.

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noob, really. You know thats not helpful, silly. :smallbiggrin: Funny though

This is pretty much just an ad hoc piece of homebrew. The pricing seems reasonable to me, with the exception of the amount of air stored being tied to the wearer's constitution modifier. I'd just give it 10 minutes of air, unless it has external tanks, in which case I'd give significantly more air and have the time be "per tank."

A magic item that could cast water breathing that lasts 10 hours 2x/day would come to 10,800 gp, which is roughly twice what this mundane item does. This item provides about half the benefit of endure elements, which would be 360 gp for a command-activated item usable once per day (thus always active) for the full effect. It's primary unique property is the pressure protection, which combined with the super-heavy armor (+10 armor bonus to AC without magic) is pretty nice, but with the drawbacks out of water, it's hardly game-breaking.

Add in just the conceptual idea of waterproofing plate mail this way, and 10 minutes of air rather than hours of water breathing, and 5000 gp may actually be a bit on the pricey side, but is safe without being so grossly overpriced that it seems obviously so, to me.

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Originally Posted by Ravenv13

noob, really. You know thats not helpful, silly. :smallbiggrin: Funny though

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the sphere is raw legal and will allow to go around under water for quite a long time especially if you are high level enough for your regeneration to offset non lethal damage from suffocation(in which case with the rules as written you can live in that hamster ball forever).

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Originally Posted by Segev

This is pretty much just an ad hoc piece of homebrew. The pricing seems reasonable to me, with the exception of the amount of air stored being tied to the wearer's constitution modifier. I'd just give it 10 minutes of air, unless it has external tanks, in which case I'd give significantly more air and have the time be "per tank."

A magic item that could cast water breathing that lasts 10 hours 2x/day would come to 10,800 gp, which is roughly twice what this mundane item does. This item provides about half the benefit of endure elements, which would be 360 gp for a command-activated item usable once per day (thus always active) for the full effect. It's primary unique property is the pressure protection, which combined with the super-heavy armor (+10 armor bonus to AC without magic) is pretty nice, but with the drawbacks out of water, it's hardly game-breaking.

Add in just the conceptual idea of waterproofing plate mail this way, and 10 minutes of air rather than hours of water breathing, and 5000 gp may actually be a bit on the pricey side, but is safe without being so grossly overpriced that it seems obviously so, to me.

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Yeah, you recently discovered me and my high prices.

Ok, 10 mins for armor (maybe 1 hour/ tank).
Strictly for the non-magical version: What other changes would you suggest to make more RAW?
I cant find anything for these effects.
And what would you suggest for the armor price?

And i got a pretty cheap and good Magical way to make it dive worthy:

Spoiler: 1st level spell:

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Air Bubble

you can use a ravenloft device to replicate spells.
Or you could go with the fact that in the rules as written unless written otherwise the rules of physics applies and surround your head with a glassteel sphere and have no water around your head then use the dnd rules for suffocation because they wrote the rules for suffocation(so you would suffocate rather slowly and at high level regenerate faster than you suffocate).

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Originally Posted by noob

you can use a ravenloft device to replicate spells.
Or you could go with the fact that in the rules as written unless written otherwise the rules of physics applies and surround your head with a glassteel sphere and have no water around your head then use the dnd rules for suffocation because they wrote the rules for suffocation(so you would suffocate rather slowly and at high level regenerate faster than you suffocate).

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you can use a ravenloft device to replicate spells.

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Could you be more specific?

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Or you could go with the fact that in the rules as written unless written otherwise the rules of physics applies

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Hence where the stats came from.

Edited: Not gonna lie, i did alter the depth stats though.

Modern ADS: 2,000 feet below surface, less than .5 mile.

Spoiler: Video Game Spoiler

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In Bioshock the city rapture is on the ocean floor, at a depth of just under 1.5 miles below the surface. The Big Daddies are seen walking on the ocean floor for extended periods of time. Repairing the city and other tasks.

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Originally Posted by Ravenv13

Could you be more specific?



Hence where the stats came from.

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I have no idea how could an heavy armor like this one be less hampering while underwater and it is the part I have no idea how to replicate either in real life or in the game.(+10 armor means it is as protective as wearing a fullplate that is so big you count one size category bigger)
Even if water help to carry stuff it does not makes things easier overall: the varied penalties of armor is not about weight but about how inconvenient it is to wear stuff with limited articulations or other similar problems.

for comparison armors with 10 armor class are mechanus armor and mountain plate.

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Originally Posted by noob

I have no idea how could an heavy armor like this one be less hampering while underwater and it is the part I have no idea how to replicate either in real life or in the game.(+10 armor means it is as protective as wearing a fullplate that is so big you count one size category bigger)
Even if water help to carry stuff it does not makes things easier overall: the varied penalties of armor is not about weight but about how inconvenient it is to wear stuff with limited articulations or other similar problems.

for comparison armors with 10 armor class are mechanus armor and mountain plate.

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Yes but ADS are structurally designed to be easier to move while submerged.

Edited: ADS: Atmospheric. Diving. Suit.

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Originally Posted by Ravenv13

Yeah, you recently discovered me and my high prices.

Ok, 10 mins for armor (maybe 1 hour/ tank).
Strictly for the non-magical version: What other changes would you suggest to make more RAW?
I cant find anything for these effects.
And what would you suggest for the armor price?

And i got a pretty cheap and good Magical way to make it dive worthy:

Spoiler: 1st level spell:

Show

Air Bubble

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There isn't anything for these effects. This item is going to be pure homebrew. There's no way to mundanely do this with any extant rules.

I mean, I could design magic items for you that achieve these effects. I could even make it look like Big Daddy Armor from Bioshock (mostly would just be a cosmetic choice). But there are no mechanics for designing technological items such as this. This is the kind of thing that splatbooks just ad hoc the prices on, much the way the core rules ad hoc prices and stats on a lot of items (e.g. armor).

You won't be able to point to rules anywhere for your DM to say, "This is how this is built." Your best bet is to eyeball it, compare to comparable magic effects, and see if your DM can be convinced that it's reasonably priced and not doing anything game-breaking.

I certainly don't think it's game-breaking as written. It's a huge downgrade from most magical ways of doing things. The only thing it does uniquely is the pressure protection, and I honestly don't know what the pressure-at-depth rules are normally. I'm not sure there are any!

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Originally Posted by Segev

There isn't anything for these effects. This item is going to be pure homebrew. There's no way to mundanely do this with any extant rules.

I mean, I could design magic items for you that achieve these effects. I could even make it look like Big Daddy Armor from Bioshock (mostly would just be a cosmetic choice). But there are no mechanics for designing technological items such as this. This is the kind of thing that splatbooks just ad hoc the prices on, much the way the core rules ad hoc prices and stats on a lot of items (e.g. armor).

You won't be able to point to rules anywhere for your DM to say, "This is how this is built." Your best bet is to eyeball it, compare to comparable magic effects, and see if your DM can be convinced that it's reasonably priced and not doing anything game-breaking.

I certainly don't think it's game-breaking as written. It's a huge downgrade from most magical ways of doing things. The only thing it does uniquely is the pressure protection, and I honestly don't know what the pressure-at-depth rules are normally. I'm not sure there are any!

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Ok, I think i can get him to be lenient on this one (its for his teen), and as noob pointed out:

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Or you could go with the fact that in the rules as written unless written otherwise the rules of physics applies

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That is technically a widely accepted rule.

SO last question before moving onto magical.

Should the depth be lower, because a normal ADS from that time period will only go about 60-200 ft below surface. BUt Modern day ADS can go down to 2000 feet.

2000ft is less than .5 miles so should i drop it to that at least? And a suggestion of price based on that. I made it (in my opinion) more expensive to compensate for the complex craftsmanship.

Unless something like Stormwrack has rules for pressure at depth, you're essentially homebrewing pressure rules into the game in order to make the Big Daddy Armor mitigate them. This isn't a bad thing, necessarily, if you want the realism of deep-sea pressure to be a thing, but you'll need to actually determine what it is.

I don't have time to do this research right now, but you might want to look up the effects of various pressures on unprotected humans, and compare those effects to, say, burn damage. Being immersed in a bonfire in D&D is 1d6 of fire damage per round. Consider severity and lethality of burns and how long it takes for them to get to the point of knocking out/killing somebody, and severity/lethality of pressure.

I know my ears hurt something fierce at just 12 feet down, and I'm not even taking damage yet. I imagine that's mitigated in deep-sea diving by various techniques, and I know there are SCUBA guidelines on how slowly you have to come up from various depths based on a meters-to-time table, but I am not SCUBA trained and so couldn't tell you what those values are.

I'd ask your DM if he wants to spend the time home-brewing a whole set of pressure rules for deep-sea diving, or if he'd rather hand-wave it as not being an issue in his magical funtimes world.

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Originally Posted by Segev

Unless something like Stormwrack has rules for pressure at depth, you're essentially homebrewing pressure rules into the game in order to make the Big Daddy Armor mitigate them. This isn't a bad thing, necessarily, if you want the realism of deep-sea pressure to be a thing, but you'll need to actually determine what it is.

I don't have time to do this research right now, but you might want to look up the effects of various pressures on unprotected humans, and compare those effects to, say, burn damage. Being immersed in a bonfire in D&D is 1d6 of fire damage per round. Consider severity and lethality of burns and how long it takes for them to get to the point of knocking out/killing somebody, and severity/lethality of pressure.

I know my ears hurt something fierce at just 12 feet down, and I'm not even taking damage yet. I imagine that's mitigated in deep-sea diving by various techniques, and I know there are SCUBA guidelines on how slowly you have to come up from various depths based on a meters-to-time table, but I am not SCUBA trained and so couldn't tell you what those values are.

I'd ask your DM if he wants to spend the time home-brewing a whole set of pressure rules for deep-sea diving, or if he'd rather hand-wave it as not being an issue in his magical funtimes world.

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Okay, since i cant post copyrighted stuff, how do i show you?

Edited:

Spoiler: Secrets

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In honesty, alot of what The GM and our players want sparks up Homebrew. And i love being the creator of it. I already have plasmids, adam, eve, gene tonics, vigors, and salts made, and even NPC Bases and Templates, Im the GMs sidekick, but i gotta follow the rules.

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Originally Posted by Ravenv13

Okay, since i cant post copyrighted stuff, how do i show you?

Edited:

Spoiler: Secrets

Show

In honesty, alot of what The GM and our players want sparks up Homebrew. And i love being the creator of it. I already have plasmids, adam, eve, gene tonics, vigors, and salts made, and even NPC Bases and Templates, Im the GMs sidekick, but i gotta follow the rules.

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I wasn't asking you to show me. If Stormwrack has rules for pressure, or you know where to find rules for it, great!

As a rule of thumb, it's generally okay to talk about basics and general stuff, jsut not to post copyrighted text. For instance, I can tell you that Libris Mortis has a feat called Corpsecrafter that makes undead created by necromancy spells cast by those who have the feat get +4 enhancement to Str and Dex. I couldn't post the feat as printed in the book, but I can convey the information about it.

But the key point here is that, if you have pressure rules for depth under water, you can use those to guage the suit's rules. Personally, I'd decide if I want it to be anywhere from half to one-tenth as susceptible to pressure as a naked human, and just apply that. The pricing seems reasonable, regardless, to me; this is a "realism" question more than anything else.

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Originally Posted by Segev

I wasn't asking you to show me. If Stormwrack has rules for pressure, or you know where to find rules for it, great!

As a rule of thumb, it's generally okay to talk about basics and general stuff, jsut not to post copyrighted text. For instance, I can tell you that Libris Mortis has a feat called Corpsecrafter that makes undead created by necromancy spells cast by those who have the feat get +4 enhancement to Str and Dex. I couldn't post the feat as printed in the book, but I can convey the information about it.

But the key point here is that, if you have pressure rules for depth under water, you can use those to guage the suit's rules. Personally, I'd decide if I want it to be anywhere from half to one-tenth as susceptible to pressure as a naked human, and just apply that. The pricing seems reasonable, regardless, to me; this is a "realism" question more than anything else.

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Alrighty then.

Spoiler: Relevant Data

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Stromwrack pages 10 - 11. have depth, hypothermia, currents, light, and drowning rules.

The depth for humans is 100 ft before 1d6 "pressure" damage.

Hypothermia in cold water deals non-lethal damage.

Humans are limited by their Constitution Score to how long you can hold breath before drowning. And taking actions reduces that time.

After 300 ft below surface, there is no natural light.

The Bends happens from going more than 100 ft underwater within a minute or less, prevented by pressure immunity.

Strong currents can sweep you away, and underwater ocean currents are a thing.

And don't even get me started on whirlpools or maelstroms.

Spoiler: Magical Concept

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Mariner Armor

Magic Armor

Base Armor: I wanna use a MW Mountain Plate as the base. (Thank you, noob)

Necessary Base Penalty: A Mariner Armor must be donned normally for it to be worn properly. But, it is a heavy armor, and requires help donning it properly. Any abilities that require it to be worn properly do not work while wearing the Mariner Armor after donning hastily.

Unecessary Effect Target 1; Use activated/continuous(?): While worn properly and underwater, only part of the armor's weight counts towards your carrying capacity, and the wearer moves faster either at all times, or just underwater, whichever is cheaper.

Necessary Effect Target 2; Use activated/continuous(?): When worn properly, this armor can pressure-proof a wearer to a safe depth of 1,000ft. Below that, the wearer and the armor start taking 1d6 points of pressure damage per 1,000ft. If the armor is breached, the wearer takes 2d6 points of pressure damage every round.

Necessary Effect Target 3; at will: This armor sinks to the bottom and allows the wearer to walk on the bottom of pools, ponds, rivers, lakes and seas like it is normal ground. The wearer can hustle, but not run underwater. Sufficiently uneven ground will still count as difficult terrain.

Necessary Effect Target 4; passive: The armor is insulated. When worn properly, the wearer is affected by Endure Elements but only for protection from Cold.

Unecessary Effect Target 5; passive:The armors gloves are too bulky for wielding ranged or light weapons unless they are especially made to be used in conjunction with this armor (double base price). However, the wearer can wield one-handed and two-handed melee weapons underwater without any circumstance penalties.

Necessary Effect Target 6; use-activated/continuous, passive: While underwater and worn properly, the inside of the armor is surrounded by a protective bubble of constantly replenishing, breathable air.

Necessary Effect Target 7; use-activated/continuous, passive: Underwater lantern, usable as long as armor. Preferably raises all light levels within area by 1 step.

Mountain Plate Base Armor

So for movement speed i found:

Expeditious Armor

Terrain-Striding Armor

I guess i could fluff waterbreathing as replenishable air.

Deep Armor

Longer underwater travel, less weight penlties:

Easy Travel Armor

All 4 of these armor enchantments add +34,000 gp to the final price, without 10% discount.

I forgot to add his drill.

Spoiler: Reskinned Chainsaw

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Chainsaw
Drill:
Cost: 3,000 gp (lower tech time period, higher price)
Weight: 20 lbs. (lower tech, higher weight)
Damage: 1d12 (Medium)
Critical: 18-20/x3
Type: piercing (Drill vs Chainsaw)
Category: two-handed
Proficiency: exotic
Weapon Group: heavy
Special: deadly, distracting
Capacity: 10; loading the drill with 1 pint of oil refills 2 charges. (Oil as common fuel for engine)
Usage: 1 charge/ hour.

It takes a standard action to activate a drill, and doing so consumes a charge of power. The drill continues to run constantly after activation, draining an additional charge each hour. The buzzing of a drill’s bit is loud and distracting (but not deafening), causing anyone carrying an activated drill to take a -10 penalty on Stealth checks. An activated drill grants a proficient user a +2 morale bonus on Intimidate checks. It takes a move action to deactivate the drill.

Was gonna add these to it:

Sundering Weapon

Seaborne Weapon

Both of these weapon enchantments add +5,000 gp to the final price, without 10% discount.

Hm. I don't really have much to add to this. Seems like you have a reasonable grasp on costs, here. This gets expensive, fast, but at this point, you're making a comprehensive suite of mid-high level gear.

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Originally Posted by Segev

Hm. I don't really have much to add to this. Seems like you have a reasonable grasp on costs, here. This gets expensive, fast, but at this point, you're making a comprehensive suite of mid-high level gear.

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Coming just from what I've seen and learned, i believe that's a pretty good compliment from you. And i appreciate it. Not gonna lie, most of this was for the non-magical version. But only if it was feasible. I'll post stats later and see if it has any mistakes or anything missing, and extra set of capable eyes is always nice.

Just to Clarify:

Adding the Anchor Spell woudl only add 3,000 gp, corrrect?

Edited: Any way to make a permanent moonrod? Or a 24 hours worth supply of them?

If you want a less-magical feel to the homebrew you use, then the Engineer base class by Lappy9000 could be a good place to start with. While the air-supply option was never actually created*, it would still be more mundane.
*Unless he did it after he had to create the "Lappy9001" account and I gave up too quickly trying to find it. It could also theoretically be on some other site...

Spoiler: Mariner Armor Rough Draft

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Mariner Armor

Magic Armor

+1 deep expeditious easy travel terrain-striding MW Mountain Plate

Mountain Plate
Heavy Armor
Price: 56,000 gp (Cost: 28,000 gp)
Armor Bonus: +11
Max Dex Bonus: 0
Armor Check Penalty: -7
Speed: 15 ft (25 ft while in water terrain)
Weight: 225 lbs.
Arcane Spell Failure Chance: 60%

A character wearing mountain plate cannot run. When wearing mountain plate, a dwarfs speed is reduced as if he were not a dwarf (just as heavy armor would typically reduce the speed of a human or any other character who is not a dwarf).
Mountain plate is dwarven armor, so a character with the Dwarven Armor Proficiency feat is considered proficient in its use.

A Mariner Armor must be donned normally for it to be worn properly. But, Mariner Armor is heavy armor, and requires help donning it properly. All of a Mariner Armor's magical properties require it to be worn properly, and do not work while wearing the Mariner Armor after donning hastily.

Deep Armor

Expeditious Armor

Terrain-Striding Armor

Easy Travel Armor

Anchor: 4/day: As a standard action, Mariner Armor will sink to the bottom of water for 6 hours. This allows the wearer to walk on the bottom of pools, ponds, rivers, lakes and seas like it is normal ground. The wearer can hustle, but not run underwater. Sufficiently uneven ground will still count as difficult terrain.

Anchor Spell: moderate abjuration (((Spell level 1 x Caster level 3) x 2,000 gp) / Charges per day 4 (1.25)) = 4,800 gp.

Spoiler: Mariner Drill Rough Draft

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Mariner Drill

+5 seaborne wounding sundering breaking MW Drill:

Price: 20,000 gp (Cost: 10,000 gp)
Weight: 20 lbs.
Damage: 1d12 (+1 bleed)(+2d6+5 vs Objects and Crystalline Creatures)
Critical: 18-20/x3
Type: piercing
Category: two-handed
Proficiency: exotic
Weapon Group: heavy
Special: deadly, distracting
Capacity: 10; loading the drill with 1 pint of oil refills 2 charges.
Usage: 1 charge/hour.

A drill is always masterwork; price and benefits are subsumed in the above statistics.

It takes a standard action to activate a drill, and doing so consumes a charge of power. The drill continues to run constantly after activation, draining an additional charge each hour. The buzzing of a drill’s bit is loud and distracting (but not deafening), causing anyone carrying an activated drill to take a -10 penalty on Stealth checks. An activated drill grants a proficient user a +2 morale bonus on Intimidate checks. It takes a move action to deactivate the drill.

Wounding

Seaborne

Sundering

Breaking

Spoiler: Everburning Lantern Rough Draft

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Everburning Hooded Lantern

This otherwise normal hooded lantern has a continual flame spell cast on it. This causes it to shed light like an ordinary hooded lantern. A hooded lantern sheds normal light in a 30-foot radius and increases the light level by one step for an additional 30 feet beyond that area (darkness becomes dim light and dim light becomes normal light). A hooded lantern does not increase the light level in normal light or bright light.

Price 120 gp; Weight 2 lbs.

So here are the rough drafts on the Mariner set of magic items.

In ravenloft devices are non magical items that are identical to magical items and they cost twice as much(but they are not magical so you can go around wielding them into antimagic zones)
Essentially it is mad scientist tech.

So, it looks like what you're going for is super-heavy armor with big ACP, low max Dex mod, and pressure immunity? You say compatible system stuff is on the table? You could just slap the Deepdweller enchantment from 3.5's Magic Item Compendium on any armor of your choice and now you're immune to pressure damage.

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Originally Posted by noob

In ravenloft devices are non magical items that are identical to magical items and they cost twice as much(but they are not magical so you can go around wielding them into antimagic zones)
Essentially it is mad scientist tech.

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That sounds very exploitable...

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Originally Posted by AvatarVecna

So, it looks like what you're going for is super-heavy armor with big ACP, low max Dex mod, and pressure immunity? You say compatible system stuff is on the table? You could just slap the Deepdweller enchantment from 3.5's Magic Item Compendium on any armor of your choice and now you're immune to pressure damage.

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I appreciate the suggestions. I honestly think that is what i used, i think its name was shortened, cause i just have it as deep armor.

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Originally Posted by Ravenv13

That sounds very exploitable...



I appreciate the suggestions. I honestly think that is what i used, i think its name was shortened, cause i just have it as deep armor.

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If the rule of thumb you use for those items is that it would make sense for a mad scientist of your setting to create them then it is less exploitable than wizard spells which are "there is a fairy tale or a story where a magical individual did this so now it is a wizard spell"
A mad scientist making a suit allowing to survive underwater pressure and have air underwater makes sense.
A mad scientist making a machine that allows to grant all the wishes ever does not.
And a mad scientist making a machine that stops time is way more contrived(also rarer than a mad scientist making a machine for surviving underwater pressure).
Also if you find spellcasting into antimagic zones to be exploitable know that the initiate of mystra allows to cast your cleric spells into antimagic zones with no problems and does not involves going into ravenloft to find mad scientists.

Portal Homebrew Help

Speaking of Magic Item Compendium, it could be good to check out the concept of set bonuses from that book if you are going to split the functionality between multiple slots/items.