Need help picking a class

First, I haven't played 4e for a long time and was always a bigger 3.5 player so I am behind in terms of releases and the metagame.
Second, all DDI published material is being allowed in the game I am seeking to join but I personally only have access to PHB 1-3, Adventurers Vault, Martial Power 1-2, and Heroes of Shadow so suggestions outside that I will need details for.

So, the game I am trying to join was a solo game following an eladrin psion on a quest to free her family that somehow involves assembling the rod of seven parts. They want to add a second player. My concept is a Shade assassin (thematically, not necessarily as in the class) who was once human but was raised in a cult of (haven't done my 4e evil deity research yet). When he came of age though, rather than being taken into their priesthood he was sacrificed to their god and his body cast into the shadowfell. Somehow through sheer force of will and the magics of the shadowfell he survived but in surviving he found himself changed, warped by the shadowfell that sustained him at the edge of death. He wandered back to the real world half alive and as luck would have it was taken in by a small guild of assassins (again, thematically) who saw the fire and determination for vengeance in his eyes and decided to train him.

Mechanically speaking stealth and the ability to gather info on and track a target and then deal high damage to it are of key importance. Seeing as it's a party of 2 with the other being a psion it probably needs to be generally capable too. Any advice you guys can offer would be greatly appreciated.

All of this screams AVENGER! to me (PHB2, pg. 33). Read something about it, and we'll (forum) go in details with it if you like the idea.

Cheers!

Aren't Avengers the only striker without a bonus damage mechanic? Also, don't they have to be mano e mano to use their primary gimmick (double attack roll)? How useful can that be in a 2-man party where I'll likely be swarmed almost every encounter?

A shade would be suited well enough for a fey-, gloom-, or star-pact hexblade. Gloom pact in particular seems thematically appropriate.

Something like this, maybe?

Spoiler

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 1
Shade, Warlock (Hexblade)
Pact: Gloom Pact (Hexblade)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 12, DEX 18, INT 12, WIS 8, CHA 18

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 12, DEX 16, INT 12, WIS 8, CHA 16


AC: 17 Fort: 12 Ref: 15 Will: 15
HP: 24 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 6

TRAINED SKILLS
Bluff +9, Intimidate +9, Stealth +10, Streetwise +9, Thievery +8

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +3, Arcana +3, Athletics –1, Diplomacy +4, Dungeoneering –1, Endurance +0, Heal –1, History +1, Insight –1, Nature –1, Perception –1, Religion +1

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Shade Utility: One with Shadow
Warlock Utility: Convocation of Shadows
Warlock Attack: Flesh Rend
Warlock Attack: Spirit Flay
Warlock Attack 1: Eldritch Bolt
Warlock Attack 1: Web of Shadows

FEATS
Level 1: Rod Expertise

ITEMS
Scourge of Exquisite Agony x1
Rod Implement x1
Chainmail x1
Adventurer's Kit
Thieves' Tools
13 gp.
====== End ======

Straight fluff, an executioner would be pretty good I think. A striker that is all about the shadows, sounds good. Hexblade and warlock are also pretty good.

But considering the only other player is a controller, I'd suggest Blackguard. It's still a shadow based striker, but has paladin level defenses that would allow you to be in melee. If your DM is making encounters anything like normal, you will need a meatshield.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OutlawJT

Aren't Avengers the only striker without a bonus damage mechanic? Also, don't they have to be mano e mano to use their primary gimmick (double attack roll)? How useful can that be in a 2-man party where I'll likely be swarmed almost every encounter?

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Never have you mentioned optimizing. :smallredface:

Yes, they are better against an isolated target, but that only makes it interesting. It's your DMs job to make it balanced. I am running a two-man campaign (Rogue and Warlock) and I adjust the encounters so that they are fitting for, guess, a Rogue and a Warlock. This doesn't mean easy, it means fitting. Avengers fit the description, and 4e doesn't have "tiers" in that sense 3+ editions do. You can go great with an Avenger, that's all. And they cover everything you need - Stealth, Streetwise, Perceptions, "vengefulness" and whatnots. A hexblade (not that I'm against it, or against ghost_warlock's suggestion) does not.

Talk to us some more, and I hope this helps!

Why not go rogue or ranger? I mean most of what you want is in those two classes or fluff. Heck with the right multiclass feat you could be any class.

Avenger is a good choice too, at a specific level once you are next to an enemt you never have to worry about them getting away frrom you. Of course getting to roll twice on a target is pretty nifty for a striker...

Also a Sorcerer multiclass rogue can be a really really fun build. >:D

So yeah, anything that can't cover most of my skill needs (as in all but one as I'm willing to throw a feat at MC or skill training to fill out skill necessity) is a no. Stealth, Streetwise, Perception are probably the big three but I could see thievery and acrobatics being important.

I don't have a way to look at Hexblade to know if it'd work or not. I like the idea of a blade that only comes into existence when I attack (saves the trouble of concealing weapons and allows for high weapon damage along with it). Even so, being based off Warlock it doesn't strike me as being a martial (in style, not in source) class. I picture my character sneaking up close and personal so when he slits his enemies throats they get to see who did it.

I've looked at rogue and while mechanically there is a decent bit there for what I have in mind it's all mundane and straightforward. There's no mysticism or mystery about what they do. Plus I'd need to keep inventing ways to get combat advantage without flanking. Aside from surprise/1st round bonus I'm not sure how much of that is built in to the class or is even attainable via feats. So, rogue works good mechanically (if I can come up with ways to get CA sans flanking) but feels bland from a fluff/thematic standpoint for this character.

As to Avenger, am I just missing something when I read it? I am not seeing the damage potential in there at all. It's damage is reliant on a hefty 1-handed weapon and much higher than average hit percentage. A hefty weapon is hardly assassin friendly as you'd stand out in a crowd like a sore thumb. Do the Divine Power books offer up some help I don't know about?

Also looked at Executioner. It sort of feels incomplete to me. Some parts of it I really like but other parts of it just feel weak. There are also stretches where it feels like you gain nothing for your levels. Not a fan of the paragon path in it either. Thematically/fluffwise, though, it and the assassin in general are picture perfect for what I want to do. I really wish I had a way to look at the full assassin class proper. All I know about it is the striker mechanic is called something shroud and it's a free action that you can do once per round to stack 1d6 damage on your next attack versus a target up to 4d6 max. So you could do 1d6 every round or save it up and do 4d6 in one brutal hit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OutlawJT

Aren't Avengers the only striker without a bonus damage mechanic?

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Their bonus damage mechanic is rolling twice. Since they're more accurate than other strikers (except the rogue, possibly), they deal more damage.

Perhaps an Executioner|Warlock would do what you want. Eldritch Strike can be charged, is an MBA so Executioner bonus works, as does normal Curse damage. You should get the skills you want, and you can snag Hexblade powers, but not the actual magic blade unless your DM allows a feat that's been errata'ed out. This is one of the few Striker hybrids that are able to combine their features. Dex/Cha is perfect for the Shade. A Pact Blade would be a good weapliment. I'll see if I can throw something together, do you have a target level?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kurald Galain

Their bonus damage mechanic is rolling twice. Since they're more accurate than other strikers (except the rogue, possibly), they deal more damage.

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Also, at Paragon, they get access to Painful Oath, which you can kind of think of as their Striker damage feature in a convenient feat tax form.

Avengers are really scary, when made and run well. Pursuit is the best, IMO.

(1) Pick up a Fullblade. You can do great damage with one. Jagged, if you can swing it and you're high enough level. It's crit-fishing on easy mode.
(2) Avengers' control abilities can be pretty intense. If you're surrounded, you have access to several powers which let you teleport away and bring an enemy along with you.

(Also, the non-Executioner Assassin is a pretty poor class. I would not recommend one in a two-person party.)

-O

The problem is, an Avenger isn't exactly sneaky assassin, more kick the door down and wail with a beatstick. And with a Psion as the only other party member, control isn't as important.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tegu8788

The problem is, an Avenger isn't exactly sneaky assassin, more kick the door down and wail with a beatstick. And with a Psion as the only other party member, control isn't as important.

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Well... You say that but I've seen some sneaky Avengers. Nothing better than hiding 10 ft away from an enemy will a fullblade ready to chop the creature's head off.

Due to different options you can say that about each sneak class... Even the phb1 warlock since eldritch strike is an option.

OP: Have you thought about Swordsage? They can get striker level damage (err close) and they teleport a ton. I've seen some sneaky builds with them, with the right background and themes....

Wait are you allowed a background and theme? Those right there may be able put your skills onto a class that has 1 or 2 of them... Been a while since I've dealt with them though.

I had not even thought about the Swordmage, but that would be a pretty good class. Being able to summon your weapon would allow you to sneak into an area, get past the guards' inspections, and get your giant weapon to you. And as a Defender, it would be better able to handle melee alone than a Striker.

And since you said everything was available, I would definitely suggest a theme and a background. Your Swordmage stat's don't line up with your desired skills, but these can help you get around that.

I threw a level 1 Exectioner|Warlock together with basic magic items you'd need.

Spoiler

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ====== Umbra, level 1
Shade, Assassin (Executioner)/Warlock
Guild Attacks (Hybrid) Option: Red Scales (Hybrid)
Hybrid Assassin (Executioner) Option: Hybrid Executioner Fortitude
Eldritch Pact (Hybrid) Option: Dark Pact (Hybrid)
Eldritch Strike Option: Eldritch Strike Charisma
Hybrid Warlock Option: Hybrid Warlock Reflex
Hybrid Talent Option: Shadow Walk
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 13, DEX 18, INT 10, WIS 11, CHA 18
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 13, DEX 16, INT 10, WIS 11, CHA 16
AC: 17 Fort: 13 Ref: 16 Will: 15
HP: 25 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 6
TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +6, Insight +5, Perception +5, Stealth +11
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +4, Arcana +2, Athletics -1, Bluff +4, Diplomacy +4, Dungeoneering +0, Heal +0, History +0, Intimidate +4, Nature +0, Religion +0, Streetwise +4, Thievery +4
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Shade Utility: One with Shadow
Assassin Attack: Poisoned Dagger
Assassin Attack: Quick Lunge
Warlock's Curse Power: Warlock's Curse
Assassin Attack: Assassin's Strike
Warlock Attack 1: Eldritch Strike
Warlock Attack 1: Star Shackles
FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
ITEMS
Pact Blade Dagger +1 x1
Magic Leather Armor +1 x1
Amulet of Protection +1 x1
====== End ======

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tegu8788

I had not even thought about the Swordmage, but that would be a pretty good class. Being able to summon your weapon would allow you to sneak into an area, get past the guards' inspections, and get your giant weapon to you. And as a Defender, it would be better able to handle melee alone than a Striker.

And since you said everything was available, I would definitely suggest a theme and a background. Your Swordmage stat's don't line up with your desired skills, but these can help you get around that.

I threw a level 1 Exectioner|Warlock together with basic magic items you'd need.

Spoiler

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ====== Umbra, level 1
Shade, Assassin (Executioner)/Warlock
Guild Attacks (Hybrid) Option: Red Scales (Hybrid)
Hybrid Assassin (Executioner) Option: Hybrid Executioner Fortitude
Eldritch Pact (Hybrid) Option: Dark Pact (Hybrid)
Eldritch Strike Option: Eldritch Strike Charisma
Hybrid Warlock Option: Hybrid Warlock Reflex
Hybrid Talent Option: Shadow Walk
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 13, DEX 18, INT 10, WIS 11, CHA 18
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 8, CON 13, DEX 16, INT 10, WIS 11, CHA 16
AC: 17 Fort: 13 Ref: 16 Will: 15
HP: 25 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 6
TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +6, Insight +5, Perception +5, Stealth +11
UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +4, Arcana +2, Athletics -1, Bluff +4, Diplomacy +4, Dungeoneering +0, Heal +0, History +0, Intimidate +4, Nature +0, Religion +0, Streetwise +4, Thievery +4
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Shade Utility: One with Shadow
Assassin Attack: Poisoned Dagger
Assassin Attack: Quick Lunge
Warlock's Curse Power: Warlock's Curse
Assassin Attack: Assassin's Strike
Warlock Attack 1: Eldritch Strike
Warlock Attack 1: Star Shackles
FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
ITEMS
Pact Blade Dagger +1 x1
Magic Leather Armor +1 x1
Amulet of Protection +1 x1
====== End ======

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That's what I get for using my phone -_-;;

Avenger is not "kick the door down, strike with beatstick" unless you make it that. But you can make a Rogue like that, as well.

As for that weapon sticking out, OP, I understand your point. But, there is something hefty: a cloaked weapon. This, my friend, will make you baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaadass. Check it out in Adventurer's Vault (you have that, if I remember your first post). So, I second pick up a fullblade, enjoy Avenger's skill list, roll twice for shameful amount of critical hits, and worry not about anything else.

But, it's up to you. Make it count, anyway. :smallsmile:

Sorry I didn't mention this. Entry level is 4th for the new character and the goal is to go all the way through epic.

As for stats, I think the set I'll be allowed to use is a very generous 18, 16, 15, 14, 14, 13. If not then I'd get to roll 5d6, drop the lowest 2 when I join the game for my stats.


I really wish I had access to review the swordmage now. I remember that I loved that little teleporting bastiche! The thought never occurred to me to consider using one as an assassin, though. Does it have enough of my relevant class skills? Also, how can you get it's damage up there? I seem to remember there being one trick at paragon tier that helped a lot but don't remember what it was. I don't recall seeing a way to come close to approaching decent striker damage, though.

What makes the regular assassin so bad? And is the hybrid Executioner better than the full executioner because you pick up coverage from your other half? My main problem with the Executioner being it feels incomplete with too many dead feeling levels. The base flavor is there for my character but it only goes halfway for the mechanics. How does the hybrid Executioner work? Hybridization has always been one of my favorite ideas in 4e but I've never really gotten to play around with it before.

The Swordmage guide is pretty good place to start, and if you are willing to nap an MC feat, which is always a pretty strong thing to do, you can get any skill you want. The guide includes information on striking I believe. Assault Swordmage is the way to go for that.

And those are good stats, to be certain. Are those including racial and level ups?

And that is the glory of hybrids, at dead levels you just use the other half to compensate. The original, I think, fails because the shrouds don't level up as well as other striker mechanics. The Executioner fixed many of the problems, as I understand. The hybrid Executioner gives it's boost to an of it's own attacks or R/MBAs, you can snag it's encounter boost if you want, and replace a daily attack with a poison recipe. You also get 2 of the 3 at-wills from the guild.

Those stats would be before racial and level I think.

Two questions, is there a melee capable class that offers an at-will teleport by 10th level that can be taken as part of going hybrid? How do you think a Swordmage/Executioner would shake out?

The first question I ask because I started looking at the unassociated paragon paths in Heroes of Shadow and read Shadow Dancer. My first thought was, "how awesome would it be to have a hybrid rogue/teleporty class with this paragon path? sneak attack all day long the second you hit paragon!" I figure any teleporty class should offer enough mysticism to counter the mundaneness of rogue for the feel of the character. The second question I ask just because I remember loving the swordmage and the executioner fits thematically so well but feels incomplete and since swordmage was suggested I wondered how well they might synergize for my concept.

Pretty poorly, I'm afraid. A Dex/Int hybrid pretty much nerfs itself. There is no stat synergy between the two classes, and I don't think that Swordmage powers could get the Executioner boost. Warlocks with a Fey Pact get pretty frequent teleportation.

The only class I know of that gets at-will teleports is Assassin, and Swordmage when a mark is violated. Rogue|Warlock can be done, you don't get the double stack but with rogue powers that don't rely on a standard action you can do solid damage. That is more of a back and forth hybrid than a "new class" hybrid.

Swordmage|Warlock may be something you want to consider. It gets away from the assassin a bit and into more magic, but you'll have your fill of [W] powers from the Swordmage and can get close range bursts and blasts from the Warlock as well as some flavorful utilities.

So, do you think maybe going hybrid rogue|assassin might be a solution for me? You get the damage from the rogue, the coolness/flavor from assassin, and they both feature all or almost all of the skills I need and the same stats. Thoughts?

You can't stack the features to get bonus damage, but you could alternate between mechanics pretty easily.

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Originally Posted by Tegu8788

You can't stack the features to get bonus damage, but you could alternate between mechanics pretty easily.

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So I could sneak attack, sneak attack, sneak attack while gradually building up stacks for a massive 4d6 shroud? And later on use assassin's at-will teleports to keep me in CA so flanking is never an offensive issue via Shadow Dancer? This is is sounding more and more like my solution. Where can I find assassin and it's hybrid rules published? Or is it DDI only, no print options?

You only get two shrouds as a hybrid, but otherwise that would work. Cunning Stalker feat gives you CA when no one else is adjacent to the target but yourself, something you might find helpful.

As I interpret things -- dunno whether there's been an official statement on it -- using the assassin's shroud power itself you can only subject a creature to two shrouds, but you can overcome that limit with via powers, feats, paragon path features and such.

A rogue/assassin will be pretty fragile. Lowest number of hit points possible, nothing special in terms of AC, not much self-healing or temporary hit points amongst the utility powers.

However, both classes like Charisma, which fits quite nicely with the backstory. You have too much sense of self to just surrender to a sacrificial ritual.

All things considered, I'd recommend Executioner over Assassin. At-will teleportation is nice, but maybe not worth giving up so much else for (hit points and DPR, among other things). Alternatively, if you really adore the teleportation, go for Assassin|Avenger. Avenger can benefit a lot from being able to leave one critter and suddenly be beside another. Avengers like Dexterity, and high Wisdom would really help out your perceptiveness for hunting down enemies.

Too quote myself,

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If this doesn't throw you off, then there are a few things you need to consider about your character. Does the character need to be a hybrid? Do the mechanics of another class do what you want, and just need refluffing? Or can this be solved with a multiclass feat or two, or a theme?

If you really want to use the mechanics of two separate classes, consider the following.
Where are you getting your AC?
What are you holding in your hands?
What exactly do you want your character to do, mechanically?
Is there any synergy between the Primary and Secondary Stats?
Are your NADs covered?

If you can't answer these questions, then you need to stop and go back and try again. Remember that hybrids get the worst of the combined armor proficiencies. Stats are easy to see, but consider how important certain classes' riders are. Does one class want a weapon in each hand, a single big one, some kind of implement or two? Weapliments are a hybrid's friend.

If you don't have a clear guide in mind, then the sheer number of options available to you will be overwhelming. You will have to choose between two entire classes worth of options, and if you don't actually know how they work, then maybe it isn't time to make a hybrid yet. Play at least one of the classes straight, and once you have a good handle on the game, have your current character get drunk and stay at the tavern, and introduce your new hybrid.

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You seem to have most of this figured out. AC is a big problem, and as the only melee party member without a Leader, HP is going to be more important than normal. A Psion can only lay down but so much control to help keep you alive.

A problem most hybrids have, besides doubling a role makes for a weaker character most of the time. Striker|Strikers are weak, Leader|Leader looses a heal per encounter. It's hard to get a hybrid that does the same thing on both sides. I saw a charge based pixie Executioner|Rogue that was able to pump out lots of damage.

But as Dimers said, you need to do more than just strike, you need to be able to survive being the main focus of everyone's wraith. Now that I think about it, a Dex/Cha Bard|Stabby class could work out pretty well. It would net you a heal once per encounter, and if you take the feat that gives you the Skald Aura, I think you could double dip Executioner damage with Leader boosts. Skald can actually be built with any secondary stat, uses Cha for everything including MBAs, and is a literal Arcane|Martial class. I'll check on the Executioner|Skald trick.


Edit: Must say I'm impressed. Focusing almost completely on MBAs, you get +11 vs Ac, 2d8+6 damage and grant 4 THPs if the psion is within 5 squares of you. At-will, and it's chargeable. Once an encounter you can add 2d10, and 2d6 regardless of a hit or miss, and add 1d8 while geting 5 THPs yourself, and your first turn hit deals an extra 1d8 poison damage. Almost everything is minor action or immediate reaction based, letting you cheese your MBA constantly. You can get more damage use it in your off-hand for Poisoned Dagger and a rapier in your main hand. AC is pretty good, and the HP is respectable. You're quick to act, and have good numbers in the stats you wanted. This gives you a fair amount of self healing and a solid number of damage boosts you can either spread out or lump up together. Being able to charge 2d10+4d8+2d6+6 is no slouch, but I'm not a striker, so take it with a grain of salt.

Spoiler

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Umbra, level 4
Shade, Assassin (Executioner)/Bard
Guild Attacks (Hybrid) Option: Red Scales (Hybrid)
Hybrid Assassin (Executioner) Option: Hybrid Executioner Fortitude
Hybrid Bard Option: Hybrid Bard Reflex
Curious Archeologist (+2 to Perception)
Theme: Cultist

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 13, CON 15, DEX 21, INT 14, WIS 14, CHA 19

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 13, CON 15, DEX 18, INT 14, WIS 14, CHA 16

AC: 20 Fort: 16 Ref: 19 Will: 17
HP: 42 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 10

TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +12, Perception +11, Stealth +14, Streetwise +11, Thievery +12

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +7, Athletics +4, Bluff +7, Diplomacy +7, Dungeoneering +5, Endurance +5, Heal +5, History +5, Insight +5, Intimidate +7, Nature +5, Religion +5

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Cultist Attack: Master's Eye
Shade Utility: One with Shadow
Assassin Attack: Poisoned Dagger
Assassin Attack: Quick Lunge
Bard Utility: Skald's Aura
Feat Utility: Unbalanced Mind
Bard Attack 1: Bolstering Speech
Assassin Attack 1: Gloom Thief
Bard Attack 1: Dirge of the Damned
Assassin Utility 2: Cloak of Shades
Bard Attack 3: Echoing Weapon

FEATS
Level 1: Skald Training
Level 2: Venom Hand Assassin
Level 4: Foulborn Heritage

ITEMS
Magic Leather Armor +1 x1
Magic Dagger +1 X1
Amulet of Protection +1 X1
Magic Rapier +1 X1
====== End ======

How's that look to you? All the skills you want, good damage, and if you DM allows you to count yourself as an "ally" in regards of Bard powers, you become very self sustaining. The big trick is staying within 5 squares of the Psion, which could be challenging. Grab a vanguard weapon to stack an extra 1d8 on every charge. This also doesn't rely on getting combat advantage, hard to do in a two person party. Powers can give you more control, but I figure you don't need that with an actual Controller in the party. You get the Dex/Cha type character you want that can sneak around and slaughter people at will, while giving you the ability to function as a party face and trap-finder.

Open battle by activating your Aura, Bolstering Speech, then charge in triggering Venom Hand Assassin's bonus poison. Next turn pop Master's Eye and Echoing Weapon, and use Assassin's Strike to obliterate someone. Get surrounded, throw down Unbalanced Mind, hopefully the Psion can inflict some psychic vulnerability. Need to escape, sure Cloak of Shades to turn invisible and runaway. Minor action Daily makes the Psion deal better damage all encounter long. Constant THPs generation and either one of you can heal yourself with a minor action.

It sounds extremely impressive the way you describe it. I had settled on just using Executioner and submited my character thusly (sans sheet, just listed class choice) but you make a compelling argument for skald bard|executioner. I have a couple questions though.
1- Is it possible to keep the assassin strike power? It's crucial to the guild executioner paragon path which upon further review I decided I did like. If not then I'd need another paragon path and pickings are slim for fully compatible paths that match thematically but aren't weak.
2- Do I still get poisons and/or death attack in that hybrid? I saw you took what I think is the first feat in the poison line to ignore poison resistance/immunity but no poison recipes listed.
3- What does Foulborn Heritage do?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OutlawJT

It sounds extremely impressive the way you describe it. I had settled on just using Executioner and submited my character thusly (sans sheet, just listed class choice) but you make a compelling argument for skald bard|executioner. I have a couple questions though.
1- Is it possible to keep the assassin strike power? It's crucial to the guild executioner paragon path which upon further review I decided I did like. If not then I'd need another paragon path and pickings are slim for fully compatible paths that match thematically but aren't weak.
2- Do I still get poisons and/or death attack in that hybrid? I saw you took what I think is the first feat in the poison line to ignore poison resistance/immunity but no poison recipes listed.
3- What does Foulborn Heritage do?

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1. Yes. I had played around with a couple powers, and made about a dozen edits. That was one I forgot to make. Anytime you can choose an encounter power from the Executioner side, you can snag Assassin's Strike. So the PP you have in mind is still good.
2. I'm no feat master, nor an expert on strikers, but getting an extra 1d8 every time you take a break seemed good to me. Any time you can choose a daily from the Executioner side you can snag a poison recipe instead of the actual power. If you want poison, you got it.
3. As above, I also thought it was thematic, and the power was a nice defensive one. Light Blade Expertise would work just as well.

Spoiler

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ====== Umbra, level 4
Shade, Assassin (Executioner)/Bard
Guild Attacks (Hybrid) Option: Red Scales (Hybrid)
Hybrid Assassin (Executioner) Option: Hybrid Executioner Fortitude
Hybrid Bard Option: Hybrid Bard Reflex
Curious Archeologist (+2 to Perception)
Theme: Cultist

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 13, CON 15, DEX 21, INT 14, WIS 14, CHA 19

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 13, CON 15, DEX 18, INT 14, WIS 14, CHA 16
AC: 20 Fort: 16 Ref: 19 Will: 17
HP: 42 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 10

TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +12, Perception +11, Stealth +14, Streetwise +11, Thievery +12

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +7, Athletics +4, Bluff +7, Diplomacy +7, Dungeoneering +5, Endurance +5, Heal +5, History +5, Insight +5, Intimidate +7, Nature +5, Religion +5

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Cultist Attack: Master's Eye
Shade Utility: One with Shadow
Assassin Attack: Poisoned Dagger
Assassin Attack: Quick Lunge
Bard Utility: Skald's Aura
Assassin Attack: Assassin's Strike
: Swap Daily For Poison Recipe
Bard Attack 1: Bolstering Speech
Assassin Utility 2: Cloak of Shades
Bard Attack 3: Echoing Weapon

FEATS
Level 1: Skald Training
Level 2: Venom Hand Assassin
Level 4: Against All Odds

ITEMS
Magic Leather Armor +1 X1
Magic Dagger +1 x1
Amulet of Protection +1 xl
Magic Rapier +1 x1
====== End ======

This bumps you up to +11, gives you your poisons, and corrects the encounter attack. At this point, your only standard actions are At-Wills, R/MBAs, and the Shade racial. Grab a Bard daily and utility next time you level up, and you can be Executioner the rest of the time. Use Bard boosts on yourself, just have to remember which boosts have to be used turning your turn, and which last longer. And since this is all MBA based and once per turn, not round, all of your OAs get the extra damage and healing. I figure you'll be in the thick of it alot, so Against All Odds seemed appropriate.