Re: Cheese with Simulacrum
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Clistenes
And what monsters would you replicate with Simulacrum?.
Myself, and have them help me with circle magic. I'm sure there's a handbook or something for this somewhere.
Re: Cheese with Simulacrum
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mithril Leaf
Myself, and have them help me with circle magic. I'm sure there's a handbook or something for this somewhere.
Well, yes, if you are the highest level wizard available. I would duplicate the Big Bad instead if he were a higher level wizard than myself.
Circle Magic is in one of the Forgotten Realms books. Magic of Faerun, or Unreachable East. The Red Wizards do it a lot.
There are also some group rites in the Relic and Rituals book, of the Scarred Lands campaign.
And how would you carry your doubles around?
Re: Cheese with Simulacrum
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Clistenes
And how would you carry your doubles around?
Smoky Confinement, Complete Mage, Sor/Wiz 6.
Re: Cheese with Simulacrum
Go Wizard 5/ Red Wizard 10/ Full Casting PrC 5, make nine Simulacrums of yourself, each is a Wizard 5/ Red Wizard 5.
They each take turns acting as circle leader with four others. Each of them leads once and participates four times. Each one contributes a 3rd level spell slot when participating, and a 4th level spell slot when leading. Each one will have 16 spell levels to spend after his circle magic, which they will each use to heighten a 4th level spell to 20th level per the exception to the normal heighten limitation given in the circle magic rules. You now have nine simulacrums, each with a 20th level spell prepared. This takes them nine hours to accomplish, but each one only spends five hours out of those nine doing circle magic.
You then lead a circle with all nine simulacrums participating. You can spend a spell of any level you want, let's assume you contribute a 0-level spell. Each of your simulacrums contributes their 20th level spell. You gain 180 spell levels from this use of circle magic. Spend twenty of those to get a caster level of 40 for the day. Spend some five at a time to Maximize + Empower a bunch of spells (Disintegrate, Horrid Wilting, Maw of Chaos, etc.), then spend quite a few more to Heighten a bunch of save-or-die/lose spells to 20th level.
You could easily have another nine simulacrums do the same thing, and you spend a second hour each day leading a circle to get another 180 spell levels. Your simulacrums can craft magic items when they're not doing circle magic, they'll have 14-hour days between circle magic with each other and with you and crafting, which leaves ample time for them to rest, prepare spells, and whatever else they need to do.
Re: Cheese with Simulacrum
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Biffoniacus_Furiou
You could easily have another nine simulacrums do the same thing, and you spend a second hour each day leading a circle to get another 180 spell levels. Your simulacrums can craft magic items when they're not doing circle magic, they'll have 14-hour days between circle magic with each other and with you and crafting, which leaves ample time for them to rest, prepare spells, and whatever else they need to do.
Simulacrums don't gain XP, however, and it's debatable whether or not they have any at creation. So they might not be able to craft at all without Ambrosia, Agony, or some other method to craft without expending your own XP.
Re: Cheese with Simulacrum
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Clistenes
And how would you carry your doubles around?
Buy an enveloping pit for 3600 gp. It's like a portable hole, but 50' deep. :smallbiggrin:
Also, find a chronotyryn. :smalltongue::smallamused:
Re: Cheese with Simulacrum
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jack_Simth
Simulacrums don't gain XP, however, and it's debatable whether or not they have any at creation. So they might not be able to craft at all without Ambrosia, Agony, or some other method to craft without expending your own XP.
Pipes of Power. They allow you to take or give xp for crafting.
I would rather use Dedicated Wright homunculus for crafting, but the simulacrums can bring to the table feats and spells you lack
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Biffoniacus_Furiou
Go Wizard 5/ Red Wizard 10/ Full Casting PrC 5, make nine Simulacrums of yourself, each is a Wizard 5/ Red Wizard 5.
A Wizard 5/Red Wizard 5 has 2/3 of a Wizard 5/Red Wizard 10, not half...is that a Red Wizard thing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jack_Simth
Smoky Confinement, Complete Mage, Sor/Wiz 6.
The problem with that method is that, once they have been released, you have to carry them around for the rest of the day until you have prepared the spell again.
If you could polymorph a simulacrum of a wizard into an undead or outsider, he wouldn't need to eat or breathe and you could carry them in a Portable Hole of Bag of Holding all day.
Does a deva, succubus or trumpet archon count as mammals for PaO? Or, could you polymorph a wizard into a the sample lich of the MM? (I know you can't add templates with PaO, but I'm unsure if you can polymorph them into the sample creatures that are given in the book).
EDIT: I forgot that most outsiders DO breathe.
Re: Cheese with Simulacrum
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Clistenes
A Wizard 5/Red Wizard 5 has 2/3 of a Wizard 5/Red Wizard 10, not half...is that a Red Wizard thing?
You left out the extra five levels of some casting PrC, such as Archmage. (I.e., Wiz 5/Red Wiz 5 vs Wiz 5/Red Wiz 10/PrC 5.)
Re: Cheese with Simulacrum
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Clistenes
Pipes of Power. They allow you to take or give xp for crafting.
So another method of crafting without personally expending XP. Got it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Clistenes
I would rather use Dedicated Wright homunculus for crafting, but the simulacrums can bring to the table feats and spell you lack
Yes, but you'll have to find an opposing NPC that actually took crafting feats... which is fairly rare, from the metagame standpoint, as the DM doesn't usually want to give you 'extra' treasure and doesn't want to 'waste' feats on things you'll never use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Clistenes
A Wizard 5/Red Wizard 5 has 2/3 of a Wizard 5/Red Wizard 10, not half...is that a Red Wizard thing?
No, he had an arbitrary full casting PrC in there for the last five levels to get the build to 20. It doesn't matter to his build what full casting PrC you use, however.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Clistenes
The problem with that method is that, once they have been released, you have to carry them around for the rest of the day until you have prepared the spell again.
No, you just prepare X copies of the spell every day, where X is the number of castings you're prepared to use. And the spell doubles as a save-or-lose, so it's not even a waste of a spell slot. Alternately, keep a few scrolls around - they're relatively inexpensive (no costly material or XP components), and your caster level and save DC don't matter when you can simply order the target to fail the save.
Or if you're really annoyed with the spell slots, you have a use for an Iron Flask.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Clistenes
If you could polymorph a simulacrum of a wizard into an undead or outsider, he wouldn't need to eat or breathe and you could carry them in a Portable Hole of Bag of Holding all day.
You have a problem: "Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep." (emphasis added)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Clistenes
Does a deva, succubus or trumpet archon count as mammals for PaO?
Undefined in RAW, and DM dependant. Irrelevant for your plan, however, as Outsiders don't have all the qualities you want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Clistenes
Or, could you polymorph a wizard into a the sample lich of the MM? (I know you can't add templates with PaO, but I'm unsure if you can polymorph them into the sample creatures that are given in the book).
The sample lich in the MM is still a creature with a template. You'd pretty much have to start with a piece of a lich to do that.
Re: Cheese with Simulacrum
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jack_Simth
You have a problem: "
Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep." (
emphasis added)
Yes, I remembered that after posting my reply. Kind of counter-intuitive, but the rules are the rules...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jack_Simth
Or if you're really annoyed with the spell slots, you have a use for an Iron Flask.
That's f***ing expensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jack_Simth
The sample lich in the MM is still a creature with a template. You'd pretty much have to start with a piece of a lich to do that.
That's annoying...is there any highly intelligent undead that is a non-templated creature?
EDIT: HOORAY! I found what I was looking for! The Vitrous Drinker is an Int 18 medium undead (MMIV) You can polymorph all the simulacrums of wizards into Vitrous Drinkers and carry them around in your Bag of Holding!
Re: Cheese with Simulacrum
Why you makin this complicated?
Issue each a Bottle of Air and a Ring of Sustenance. Carry them around in your aforementioned Portable Hole. If you're high enough level to be carrying around a retinue of Simulacrums in the first place, you're able to afford a few thousand gold each to keep them alive indefinitely.
Re: Cheese with Simulacrum
Meh, or you can pop a permanent magnificent mansion from the portable hole to give them a place to stay. Toss around some arcane eyes keyed to a crystal ball, and you have an additional entertainment benefit. (Though, you may want to set up some house rules; you never know with those wizards, the bard, and that succubus...)