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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
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I don't remember what went wrong with trusting Shadow Weaver in season 3, but I'll note that trusting Shadow Weaver would have worked out fine if Glimmer didn't run off half-cocked with Scorpia to touch her magic rock.
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Going forth into the Crimson wastes in the first place.
If Adora never went, Catra would've went there, found the ship and have no idea what to do with it or why. she or Scorpia would have no motivation to return to the Horde and just stayed and become some lord of the Crimson wastes, the Horde without Catra or Scorpia, the two big combat leaders would be left with Hordak and Entrapta who aren't good leaders as they are more concerned with their tech, which without Catra returning would be left without more to use and study.
Adora would then be able to defeat the Horde easier, Glimmer's mother would never had to sacrifice herself, Glimmer would have no reason to seek out the Heart of Etheria and thus Scorpia to rebalance the world to activate the weapon, the weird reality break would never have happened nor would Hordak have been able to get a signal out. the Horde would be finished, Horde Prime would never know where they are, Catra and Scorpia would never be able to make a force to equal the Horde's might without its resources and thus eventually lose to the alliance.
Adora without the Horde threatening them would be able to seek out answers with far less danger, figure out what happened and figure out what Light Hope really intends, work together with Entrapta to modify the sword to make sure it can't set off the weapon, then figure out what to do about Horde Prime, who doesn't know about Etheria in this timeline and how to get out of Despondos safely. as well as deal with whatever Shadow Weaver tries to do without needing to worry about a big army opposing the alliance.
If Adora never listened to Shadow Weaver at the beginning of season 3, the alliance would already be victorious. The situation would be far better than the end of Season 4, as they would have time to figure out what to do about Horde Prime and better resources to do so with.
I know benefit of hindsight, but its still true that every time someone took Shadow weaver's help, it led to things getting worse. Intentionally or unintentionally.
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lord Raziere
Spoiler
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Going forth into the Crimson wastes in the first place.
If Adora never went, Catra would've went there, found the ship and have no idea what to do with it or why. she or Scorpia would have no motivation to return to the Horde and just stayed and become some lord of the Crimson wastes, the Horde without Catra or Scorpia, the two big combat leaders would be left with Hordak and Entrapta who aren't good leaders as they are more concerned with their tech, which without Catra returning would be left without more to use and study.
Adora would then be able to defeat the Horde easier, Glimmer's mother would never had to sacrifice herself, Glimmer would have no reason to seek out the Heart of Etheria and thus Scorpia to rebalance the world to activate the weapon, the weird reality break would never have happened nor would Hordak have been able to get a signal out. the Horde would be finished, Horde Prime would never know where they are, Catra and Scorpia would never be able to make a force to equal the Horde's might without its resources and thus eventually lose to the alliance.
Adora without the Horde threatening them would be able to seek out answers with far less danger, figure out what happened and figure out what Light Hope really intends, work together with Entrapta to modify the sword to make sure it can't set off the weapon, then figure out what to do about Horde Prime, who doesn't know about Etheria in this timeline and how to get out of Despondos safely. as well as deal with whatever Shadow Weaver tries to do without needing to worry about a big army opposing the alliance.
If Adora never listened to Shadow Weaver at the beginning of season 3, the alliance would already be victorious. The situation would be far better than the end of Season 4, as they would have time to figure out what to do about Horde Prime and better resources to do so with.
I know benefit of hindsight, but its still true that every time someone took Shadow weaver's help, it led to things getting worse. Intentionally or unintentionally.
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I don't exactly recall it being Shadow Weaver's plan to go to the Crimson Waste?
Also while you're entirely correct that going to the Crimson Wastes caused all that... I don't think we can blame really anyone for that happening. How was ANYONE supposed to know that going out into the Crimson Wastes would lead to their enemy gaining just the right amount of stuff needed to make a horrifying doom portal that threatens to destroy all of reality?
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
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I don't exactly recall it being Shadow Weaver's plan to go to the Crimson Waste?
Spoiler: Back in Season 3...
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It wasn't. It was actually Adora's idea to go after Shadow Weaver told her that she's not Etherian and Light Hope confirms this. What sets Adora off though is Light Hope refusing to answer any further questions, leaving the message from The Crimson Wastes as the only lead as to where she came from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
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Also while you're entirely correct that going to the Crimson Wastes caused all that... I don't think we can blame really anyone for that happening. How was ANYONE supposed to know that going out into the Crimson Wastes would lead to their enemy gaining just the right amount of stuff needed to make a horrifying doom portal that threatens to destroy all of reality?
Yes, that's true.
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Just finished Season 4 of the show.
Spoiler: Spoiler: Points
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- Catra seems to be going mad.
- Princess Scorpia...though I am not sure why Entrapta didn't seem to be supercharged of hurt when Etheria project is activated.
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
t209
Just finished Season 4 of the show.
Spoiler: Spoiler: Points
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- Catra seems to be going mad.
- Princess Scorpia...though I am not sure why Entrapta didn't seem to be supercharged of hurt when Etheria project is activated.
The Question about Princesses which we still do not fully understand.
Spoiler: Something Something Runestones.
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There are Princesses with Runestones and there are Princesses without Runestones. Entrapta is one of the Princesses without a Runestone. Most likely there are only 5 princesses with Runestones plus She-Ra [as seen by the supercharged effect in Season 4.]
But we do not know what the differences of a Princess without a Runestone is. Entrapta since Season 1 has been talked about outside the text via various show people as being a Princess without a Runestone. But there are still other Princesses without Runestones most likely such as Spinnerella (air bending girl) and Netossa (forcefield nets). Furthermore we know Light Hope knows about more princesses besides the 5 with Runestones based off that Season 1 image I linked above earlier.
Thus we know almost nothing about the Princesses for we need to be shown or told information about them. That said we do have some incomplete knowledge currently without being told anything more than we currently know such as the Season 1 Image that Light Hope showed Adora / She Ra and from other textual sources inside the text and outside the text.
One of the questions we are left asking that it takes only 5 Princesses plus She Ra to balance the planet for The Heart of Etheria plan. Well what then makes every other princess without a runestone "important" in Light Hope's eyes. Furthermore since there are two Light Hopes the one before and after The Heart of Etheria plan maybe the other princesses are important for a different reason.
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Well frack, it's going to a long torturous wait for season five now innit?
Spoiler: s4e10-13
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Whelp, that went south pretty fast, didn't it?
Say, Catra? Y'know, maybe if you weren't a complete, deliberate, going out of your way, basket-case, even-Azula-is-saying-steady-on excrement-stain to LITERALLY EVERYONE YOU EVER MET, maybe people would, y'know, stand to be around you.
As it was, I was just laughing hard throughout your metldown, because, honestly? Double Trouble is right.
That?
That is what you deserve.
Not because of what was done to you, but because you have - repeatedly - made the decision since, despite basically every opportunity to choose differently - choose to be who you are.
And who you are? Deserves to break.
I look forward to watching Horde Prime's reaction to your INEVITABLE attempt to do it to him, and the sad thing is, you're just competant enough (or lucky and brazen enough) to get it underway...
In other news, Adora is well buggered.
But hey, Micah's back, so that's good, right? Also, Space is back! That's also good! I mean, apart from the massive alien invading fleet, of course, and the fact that the whole stunt Glimmer unwittingly started probably completely fragged everyone's powers as well, I shouldn't wonder...
Yeah, okay, there's pretty much no escaping that whole "you're all doomed, doomed I tell, doomed in case you didn't hear it the first time!"
Jolly good season, 10/10, would watch planet be doomed horribly again!
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ramza00
The Question about Princesses which we still do not fully understand.
Spoiler: Something Something Runestones.
Show
There are Princesses with Runestones and there are Princesses without Runestones. Entrapta is one of the Princesses without a Runestone. Most likely there are only 5 princesses with Runestones plus She-Ra [as seen by the supercharged effect in Season 4.]
But we do not know what the differences of a Princess without a Runestone is. Entrapta since Season 1 has been talked about outside the text via various show people as being a Princess without a Runestone. But there are still other Princesses without Runestones most likely such as Spinnerella (air bending girl) and Netossa (forcefield nets). Furthermore we know Light Hope knows about more princesses besides the 5 with Runestones based off that Season 1 image I linked above earlier.
Thus we know almost nothing about the Princesses for we need to be shown or told information about them. That said we do have some incomplete knowledge currently without being told anything more than we currently know such as the Season 1 Image that Light Hope showed Adora / She Ra and from other textual sources inside the text and outside the text.
One of the questions we are left asking that it takes only 5 Princesses plus She Ra to balance the planet for The Heart of Etheria plan. Well what then makes every other princess without a runestone "important" in Light Hope's eyes. Furthermore since there are two Light Hopes the one before and after The Heart of Etheria plan maybe the other princesses are important for a different reason.
This is what I think:
Spoiler
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When the stones were created, they were given to five kingdoms and from the old ones' perspective, they were the only princesses that mattered.
But the world is big, there were other kingdoms, and long time passed since then so no one in the world remembered there is any distinction between a princess with a stone to one without it.
So from the council that opposed Hordak's point of view, there are more than 5 princesses, and all are equal even if they have different powers since what matters is not just the power of the princess but also the people she represents and how she can help in the war.
As for Light Hope, I'm guessing she couldn't just say "only these five are important" right from the start without arousing suspicion in her motivation, so "keep the world in balance" sounds much better for selling the idea later.
Anyway, finished watching the season a few days ago, and I have nothing except good things to say about it.
I saw that the thread already mentioned everything I was about to write, so I won't do a full review.
Still, some good things are worth reiterating:
- Loved the acting, both the voice acting and the animation.
In the voice acting department you could hear that everyone knew who their character was and what was his/her motivation.
As for the animation, it's the little things that really impressed me, like Catra arranging her hair when stressed.
- Characters were great.
Some developed in ways I did not predict, but these changes did not come out of nowhere.
- Story is complex enough to enjoy as an adult, and at the same time simple enough to be understood as a kid.
The only bad thing I can say is that it makes me envy kids these days, they have much better shows than what I had growing up...
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
I am surprised we are not talking more about Double Trouble, or to a lesser extent Huntara. New interesting characters and barely anyone is talking about them.
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ramza00
I am surprised we are not talking more about Double Trouble, or to a lesser extent Huntara. New interesting characters and barely anyone is talking about them.
I mean.....Double Trouble is awesome and is a great villain for this season. they're too awesome to really say anything much about, because Double Trouble just pulls off so many wins and is more of a vehicle to play off other characters and help expose what they're like when they're at their lowest than a character in their own right. like, DT by themself, is just a really competent shapeshifter. its what DT causes to happen because of their desire to competently portray people that is really of interest.
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ramza00
I am surprised we are not talking more about Double Trouble, or to a lesser extent Huntara. New interesting characters and barely anyone is talking about them.
Double is my favorite character in this season probably. They're brilliant and I love them and every time they're on screen is golden.
My favorite bit is that you can tell when they're transformed as someone because the voice acting is slightly off from normal, and there's some things that Always Happen, that they don't know to do all the time. For example the first time Double appeared as Catra to fight Adora they didn't go "Heeey Adora" and that was an immediate tell and I LOVE THAT.
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lord Raziere
I mean.....Double Trouble is awesome and is a great villain for this season. they're too awesome to really say anything much about, because Double Trouble just pulls off so many wins and is more of a vehicle to play off other characters and help expose what they're like when they're at their lowest than a character in their own right. like, DT by themself, is just a really competent shapeshifter. its what DT causes to happen because of their desire to competently portray people that is really of interest.
I am not disagreeing. I just am surprise a few more "random outbursts" when people praise this season like "I love Double Trouble" even if they have nothing more to say besides stating the love for their character. I sense people love DT, but they are not saying it, that surprises me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
Double is my favorite character in this season probably. They're brilliant and I love them and every time they're on screen is golden.
My favorite bit is that you can tell when they're transformed as someone because the voice acting is slightly off from normal, and there's some things that Always Happen, that they don't know to do all the time. For example the first time Double appeared as Catra to fight Adora they didn't go "Heeey Adora" and that was an immediate tell and I LOVE THAT.
Agreed. Nerds out at the mechanics of that Season 4 Episode 2 scene.
Spoiler: She Ra Season 4 Episode 2
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"Hey! Careful With The Goods." [and not Hey Adora] should have been an obvious cue if we had time to reflect in the moment of the fight that something was off. But the fight was purposefully choreographed artistically to not give you time to think. There is a sudden pacing change as soon as DT said that lines, probably a framerate change where how many frames they are doing in "pull down" is not the natural amount and thus your brain notices a pacing change but it does not have time to think about what changed.
Then the quick fighting, and after the first blows the music introduction, a rock music, similar and different than most She-Ra music and all these editing and style "surprises" get you super-invested in that scene, and you do not have time to think what is different about this scene, why is it off.
4 and a half minutes later we get our revealed of what changed and why the fight feels off. This was not the normal groundhog day fight between Adora and Catra that has happened half a dozen times by now. Nor is this Adora giving up a little on Catra after the Season 3 Epilogue with the Portal World. No this fight was off for there was a Doppelganger and Adora did not realize it.
More than that, we the audience did not realize it due to wonderfully paced editing and pacing where the writers / animator / music / etc people crafted a scene that did not give us time to think and figure it out. It felt familiar yet also uncanny valley at the time, and we did not have time to figure out what was off.
Until we get the "reveal" 4 and a half minutes later. In sum a well done scene where the various storytellers did a wonderful job of "SHOW" vs "tell."
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Nerd out over, it is amazing how a single detail such as lacking "Hey Adora" vs "Hey! Careful With The Goods" can mean everything is off.
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ramza00
The Question about Princesses which we still do not fully understand.
Spoiler: Something Something Runestones.
Show
There are Princesses with Runestones and there are Princesses without Runestones. Entrapta is one of the Princesses without a Runestone. Most likely there are only 5 princesses with Runestones plus She-Ra [as seen by the supercharged effect in Season 4.]
But we do not know what the differences of a Princess without a Runestone is. Entrapta since Season 1 has been talked about outside the text via various show people as being a Princess without a Runestone. But there are still other Princesses without Runestones most likely such as Spinnerella (air bending girl) and Netossa (forcefield nets). Furthermore we know Light Hope knows about more princesses besides the 5 with Runestones based off that Season 1 image I linked above earlier.
Thus we know almost nothing about the Princesses for we need to be shown or told information about them. That said we do have some incomplete knowledge currently without being told anything more than we currently know such as the Season 1 Image that Light Hope showed Adora / She Ra and from other textual sources inside the text and outside the text.
One of the questions we are left asking that it takes only 5 Princesses plus She Ra to balance the planet for The Heart of Etheria plan. Well what then makes every other princess without a runestone "important" in Light Hope's eyes. Furthermore since there are two Light Hopes the one before and after The Heart of Etheria plan maybe the other princesses are important for a different reason.
Spoiler: Runestones!
Show
My guess is that the princesses all get their power from Etheria rather than the Runestones. Based on what Razz said about The Sword of Protection to Mara, "She-Ra is not a sword, She-Ra is you." even saying that She-Ra predates the Sword of Protection and The First Ones. I gather she meant that Mara might be able to transform without her sword/Runestone. If that's true then, the other Princesses might be able to use their powers without Runestones as well.
Though if that's correct, then there's the question of what Runestones are actually for. Beyond being conduits for The Heart of Etheria, I mean. Maybe they were made so The First Ones could control who got which powers or maybe they made connecting with elemental powers easier for the princesses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lord Raziere
I mean.....Double Trouble is awesome and is a great villain for this season. they're too awesome to really say anything much about, because Double Trouble just pulls off so many wins and is more of a vehicle to play off other characters and help expose what they're like when they're at their lowest than a character in their own right. like, DT by themself, is just a really competent shapeshifter. its what DT causes to happen because of their desire to competently portray people that is really of interest.
Well, it's kind of a nice problem for discussion around a show to have-- I mean, when there's actually so many positive points that it actually becomes sort of difficult to talk about them all in detail.
As for Double Trouble themselves, I kind of agree that they play better off others and tug at their insecurities. Meanwhile they don't really have their own set of issues to grapple with. That or they manage their issues waaaay better than Hordak or Catra.
Though weirdly enough I think there's another character that doesn't really get discussed all that often except in the role she plays in other characters' arcs-- Adora. I mean, I get that there's a lot of fans that think that she's just not as interesting as Glimmer, Catra, Hordak or Shadow Weaver. I think she's a well-written protagonist though.
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Sidenote one of the storyboaders of She Ra has released some of the storyboard for various Season 4 scenes. Here is a tweet where they animated a scene from the last episode of Season 4.
https://twitter.com/Dihuh/status/119...351170560?s=20
Yes it is intense much like the fully animated final product scene.
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Fury
Well, it's kind of a nice problem for discussion around a show to have-- I mean, when there's actually so many positive points that it actually becomes sort of difficult to talk about them all in detail.
As for Double Trouble themselves, I kind of agree that they play better off others and tug at their insecurities. Meanwhile they don't really have their own set of issues to grapple with. That or they manage their issues waaaay better than Hordak or Catra.
Though weirdly enough I think there's another character that doesn't really get discussed all that often except in the role she plays in other characters' arcs-- Adora. I mean, I get that there's a lot of fans that think that she's just not as interesting as Glimmer, Catra, Hordak or Shadow Weaver. I think she's a well-written protagonist though.
Well, if I had to say anything particular about Double Trouble....
Spoiler: Prepare for Double Trouble! Jessie, James...
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Its that their character is all about not just shapeshifter, but acting so well that they try to become the character and figure out what makes them tick and why they are that way. like, at the end of the seasons DT understands Catra so well they figure out everything about her and what her real problem is despite knowing her in far less time than Adora, to the point where they can give a villainous lecture about it and Catra is just utterly destroyed by it at that point. DT doesn't want to just imitate people, they want to refine becoming another person to an art form and understanding the people they become while doing so.
Then there is the choice of disguise while in the rebel forces: why did DT pick Flutterina rather than anyone else? Well because an Adora fan girl is one of the more plausible people that could approach her out of nowhere, but not have a background or prior knowledge that people would check or question to get their true identity. and once that fan girl proves her competence, why wouldn't they let her in, given they need all the help they can get and could plausibly be someone who is inspired by She-ra to become a hero herself and help defeat the Horde, after all Bow isn't much older and he helps out without being a princess. if he can do it, why can't Flutterina? DT picked the right amount of distance to approach Adora with so he can get into her personal circle.
and DT does it without any of that "becoming the mask" trope. they are able to get into persona and out without being affected by it in the least. furthermore, DT basically accomplishes more for the Horde in this season than any of the super-weapons, their spying efforts and sabotage drove the Rebellion to use a super-weapon instead when they were losing due to a pure tactics and conventional warfare campaign. turns out having a spy in one's upper chain of command can be pretty devastating.
there is a good moment where Catra and DT seem like they are friends and are discussing how they like causing chaos for the joy of it....then DT holds out their hand and both Catra and the audience are reminded that they are a mercenary and Catra's relationship with DT depends on her being able to keep paying them to work for her, not any actual loyalty, and you can see Catra
getting a little colder because of it.
and of course, DT suddenly switches sides because Glimmer or Shadow-Weaver probably paid them off to work for the Alliance or DT simply decided to opportunistically betray the Horde when the Princesses suddenly start glowing much brighter than usual. showing that DT has really no allegiance but to themselves. DT is therefore the opposite of Scorpia in a way- they have no loyalty whereas Scorpia was pretty much loyalty incarnate. Catra rejected the most loyal friend in the world and got DT who treacherously betrayed her anyways, leaving her alone which she kind of deserves.
The question now is, whats DT going to do in Season 5? because given DT's high competence in S4,
DT being on Horde Prime's side would basically make this near if not completely impossible to win. Horde Prime is already implied to be more advanced and more powerful than local Horde, DT helping him would pretty much destroy what little hope they have left. so what I see putting DT not on Horde Prime's side, is DT's delight for chaos not jelling with Prime's desire for order. either Prime's is going to think DT is unnecessary for what he wants and get rid of them, or DT is going to fight against Prime so they can cause chaos in his empire, or DT is just going to peace out.
like the rebellion's probably easily taken out by Horde Prime's forces at this point, and the entire planet is under his control, what use would Prime have for DT, when the only real obstacle in Prime's way is the lack of the She-Ra sword? either he makes a new one or he finds the old shattered one and begins repairing and modifying it to his purposes and either way it ends with Adora having the power within her all along, but how would any of that include DT, since Prime has such superior forces why would he even need to risk a mercenary he doesn't know who might betray him anyways, it wouldn't make any sense.
As for Adora....
Spoiler: A Most Adora-ble Hero
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the thing about Adora as a hero, is that its not that she isn't good, its just that she is overshadowed by her own rival in Catra, then overshadowed more by all the great character writing around her after that. mostly because she honestly isn't that exciting of a character even if she is a good one.
because lets see: Adora was the best candidate and named Force Captain first or was going to be force captain, she had no idea the Horde was evil and had to see with her own eyes what the Horde was doing, so the impression I got was that this was Adora's first mission and if she succeeded she'd basically be a commissioned officer, a young officer who got trained for command all her life, she was the best candidate of them all her recommendation is to be believed, and that she somehow kept up with Catra even before her She-ra transformation that she was good enough to be considered for this combat leadership position without any known supernatural powers or strange abilities like Scorpia or Catra. and considering what we've seen her do in the rebellion, I think it makes sense why she was considered.
her first arc was getting used to having her being awakened to the true suffering she caused, but then shifted into this idea of destiny thrust upon her by Light Hope that is the usual vague "your the one will bring balance to the force" nonsense that you know she understandably doesn't like and ends up in this season, outright defying in the end, because it turns out that destiny is bull and stupid, like all other forms of destiny in media which I approve of because screw that nonsense. Light Hope being overriden by First Ones to do this was good use of evil fate to emphasize that its not Light Hope thats evil, its the destiny that is.
whats more interesting to me is that Adora's leadership capabilities was so great that Queen Glimmer felt threatened by it. like, Adora and Glimmer had this "emperor and famed general" situation where while Glimmer is technically is the leader now, Adora's heroism and ability to take charge of the situation calmly and quickly, puts them in a relationship where Adora is the one people naturally turn to while Glimmer must work to fulfill her new role and find she doesn't actually like it. Their relationship is strained and Glimmer goes real cold at the end when she forbids Adora from going out and deciding to use the Heart of Etheria, but at no point does Adora think she is crazy or evil.
She understands Glimmer's reasoning and disagrees with it and criticizes some of her methods, and knows to try and stop her when informed of what will really happen, but she never thinks Glimmer is going evil I think. and thats great, because there was a big possibility of a lesser show just labeling Glimmer straight out evil for her actions instead of taking a more nuanced route where her decisions have a reason behind them and I think Adora recognized that even if she personally wants to save her friends, and knows that the weapon isn't a good idea and that Glimmer is taking advice from the wrong person, she doesn't see Glimmer as having crossed a line, because the rebellion is in a precarious position and they can't really afford to not try and win the war in case this all turns out to be a false alarm and the weapon can be controlled enough to just take out the Horde.
also, I just realized she and Hordak are mirrors of one another: they're both soldiers of a genocidal space empire who crashed on Etheria. and now both have been depowered by defying that empire and forging their own identities. of course, its free will that is considered the punished flaw of both, Adora defying the first ones and Hordak making his own empire. yet they barely interact: Adora only ever fights his minions while he never cares for Adora, leaving her to be manipulated by others. Hordak's relationship with everyone that isn't Entrapta is so impersonal and cold that we never really see Adora get into the position where she would be working with him. one wonders if this is because if Adora became force captain, she would've lead the Horde to victory without problem. The rebellion didn't seem to be winning after all. one wonders if Adora will ever team up with him to defeat Prime.
Adora is probably going to have some Talks with people in Season 5, with Glimmer at the very least. they'll agree that mistakes were made and that they need to team up to defeat Prime, no question. The real question where Adora and Catra's relationship goes now that Horde Prime has won and Catra had her flaws laid out for her. because this season is Catra's last chance. she has already gotten to her lowest point like at least twice, once during season 3 and now season 4, and Adora will need all the help she can get to defeat Horde Prime. and the question with Horde Prime and Catra is: will Horde Prime be the main villain, or will Catra successfully defeat him and be the main villain that Adora has to get through to? because its consistently been Catra thats been more of a problem than Shadow-weaver in a direct sense.
as for Adora and Shadow-Weaver, its weird. she clearly has gone dormant in S4, but with Horde Prime there is a strong possibility of Shadow-Weaver just throwing her lot in with him and be totally on board with conquering the universe. now if DT does throw his lot in with Prime as well Shadow-Weaver but Catra and Hordak joins Adora's side, that could finally make the conflict clear: final season all the abusers on one side, all the victims on the other, Adora and Catra team up to beat Shadow-Weaver then Horde Prime.
because both DT and Shadow-Weaver have been the least loyal people in the show they have no qualms about betraying people easily, while Catra has technically proven more loyal to the Horde than either even if she isn't exactly a good friend, because even if she pushed people away, she still felt betrayed by people turning against her. Catra has emotions about this that DT and SW don't, and her real feelings separate her from being just another one of those two, which might be what puts on her on Adora's side in the end, because she might find out that Prime doesn't care about her in the least, because why would he? because if he has problem with Hordak being free-willed, oh boy, Catra is even more free-willed than that, and Catra saw what happened to that free-willed boss right in front of her.
Adora on the other hand will no longer be She-Ra for a while and will need Catra's help to succeed. not that Catra even if she does become friends with Adora again would be an easy or anything, its probably going to include at least one big argument-fight about this is one or the other's fault, and how they feel about each other in what will look so much like a couples spat or something that will take at least an entire episode to resolve, but it'd probably go through.
if Catra ends up being main villain who gets killed and Horde Prime is just suddenly redeemed without any repercussions though I'm calling bull.
man this ended up not being about Adora barely at all.....I rambled away from it.
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Fury
Spoiler: Runestones!
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My guess is that the princesses all get their power from Etheria rather than the Runestones. Based on what Razz said about The Sword of Protection to Mara, "She-Ra is not a sword, She-Ra is you." even saying that She-Ra predates the Sword of Protection and The First Ones. I gather she meant that Mara might be able to transform without her sword/Runestone. If that's true then, the other Princesses might be able to use their powers without Runestones as well.
Though if that's correct, then there's the question of what Rune-stones are actually for. Beyond being conduits for The Heart of Etheria, I mean. Maybe they were made so The First Ones could control who got which powers or maybe they made connecting with elemental powers easier for the princesses.
Spoiler: Runestones/Sword/Finale + S5 speculation
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I don't see why the Runestones, apparently first one's tech as well, shouldn't function just like the Sword of Protection. Supposedly, the Sword of Protection was made not to empower She-Ra, but to control her. Mara was simply misinformed as to what the true purpose of the First Ones were. Similarly, the Princesses could be born with the abilityy to tap into the various elemental magical channels of Etheria, and the Runestones were created to direct those flows to the Heart, hence also provide a way to control the Princesses. The Runestones appear to be doing so in the grand finale. Both the Princesses and She-Ra appear to lose control over themselves.
As far as why the Sword or the Runestones appear to be necessary to the Princesses having powers in the first place, this could be a mere crutch. In my head, the Sword is made to control She-Ra's power, so of course it can awaken that power upon request. A similar thing happened with the Princesses.
What I wonder about it....why did they telegraph all this by having Razz tell Mara "She-Ra is you" in the earlier episode and explain how magic worked. This could be a startling reveal in Season 5 when the magic comes back on.
Well, it's kind of a nice problem for discussion around a show to have-- I mean, when there's actually so many positive points that it actually becomes sort of difficult to talk about them all in detail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Fury
As for Double Trouble themselves, I kind of agree that they play better off others and tug at their insecurities. Meanwhile they don't really have their own set of issues to grapple with. That or they manage their issues waaaay better than Hordak or Catra.
Though weirdly enough I think there's another character that doesn't really get discussed all that often except in the role she plays in other characters' arcs-- Adora. I mean, I get that there's a lot of fans that think that she's just not as interesting as Glimmer, Catra, Hordak or Shadow Weaver. I think she's a well-written protagonist though.
Its true that Double Trouble is presented as someone entirely without any inter-personal conflicts, internal struggle, or an agenda of their own. This is part of what allows Double Trouble to play off of everyone so well. They are the only one person looking at the conflict and the players and commenting from the outsider perspective.
Adora can be said to be "less" interesting only in that she is not as flawed as the supporting cast. As the heroine, Adora is in many ways the representation of virtue and righteousness to the audience. She is genuinely motivated by truly altruistic motives and usually thinks and acts in a noble manner,. That always strikes some as less "genuine" than characters with selfish motivations or flawed personalities.
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
Double is my favorite character in this season probably. They're brilliant and I love them and every time they're on screen is golden.
My favorite bit is that you can tell when they're transformed as someone because the voice acting is slightly off from normal, and there's some things that Always Happen, that they don't know to do all the time. For example the first time Double appeared as Catra to fight Adora they didn't go "Heeey Adora" and that was an immediate tell and I LOVE THAT.
Crap, you're right, I missed that!
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aotrs Commander
Spoiler
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In other news, Adora is well buggered.
Yeah, okay, there's pretty much no escaping that whole "you're all doomed, doomed I tell, doomed in case you didn't hear it the first time!"
Spoiler: Bit 'O Speculation
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Adora is momentarily depowered, yes, but here's a bit of a hope spot for her--The sword is needed to use the planetary weapon. If Catra successfully convinced Prime to claim the weapon for himself, he will need to have the sword reforged. If Adora can swipe it back (and the planet itself seems to have an opinion on who gets to wield it) then she can She-Ra again and fight.
Though how to fight a giant space armada from space is another problem.
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DigoDragon
Spoiler: Bit 'O Speculation
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Though how to fight a giant space armada from space is another problem.
Spoiler
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In a show like this, Deus Ex Machina is the only answer to that. Since it's either that or the even worse narrative of "lacking you own, you don't and lose horribly, because even if you destroy the command ship, that doesn't instantly make every rout in reality."
But it's no worse than every other time anyone's done that, so you can't really complain.
I mean, at the end of the day, this isn't Shadow Raiders, and you can't fairly expect to hold She Ra to that tragically, ludicrously unsurpassed standard (in regards to mass fighter combat specifically, I mean).
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aotrs Commander
Spoiler
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In a show like this, Deus Ex Machina is the only answer to that. Since it's either that or the even worse narrative of "lacking you own, you don't and lose horribly, because even if you destroy the command ship, that doesn't instantly make every rout in reality."
But it's no worse than every other time anyone's done that, so you can't really complain.
I mean, at the end of the day, this isn't Shadow Raiders, and you can't fairly expect to hold She Ra to that tragically, ludicrously unsurpassed standard (in regards to mass fighter combat specifically, I mean).
Mother****ing high five for the War Planets reference Aotrs *highfive*
Spoiler
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Anyway Adora literally doesn't need the sword that's one of the things we explicitly learn about in the Mara flashback, so destroying the sword is nothing but a good thing she just needs to come to this same realization that... well, "I have the power".
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Spoiler: Adora Vs. Imperial Fleet
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Yeah, she will have to have the power within her all along. that will pretty much drive home the message that the sword is just a crutch and a tool to control her for someone else's interest and that she can be a hero without it.
as for destroying a space fleet well.....we already have a weapon that can do that: The Heart of Etheria. right there. the entire planet is already a super-weapon, it might be as simple as harnessing that power in a way thats not harmful to it to destroy the fleet, which is y'know standard harmony kind of stuff, and the princesses already harnessed it before why not doing so again in a less powerful but more controlled fashion? after all, if the power is already within Adora, and her power is connected to the planet anyways.....seems plausible enough to me
but the other possibility is that Entrapta and Hordak, probably Bow as well, figure out that the fleet is actually controlled by computers a lot-which wouldn't be surprising- and with their efforts combined hack the fleet to be under their control after they're friends with Adora. surely between these three tech geniuses they could find a way, right? and then they all convert it to Etheria's spacefaring fleet after Horde Prime is defeated to start their spacefaring adventure with Seahawk coming along to be this leader of expeditions into space proclaiming "SPACE ADVENTURE!", The End.
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
There many ways you write the end.
Spoiler: For Example
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Spaceships have weak points both structurally and also key things that go boom or the spaceship does not work if key thing is removed.
They have a teleporter who can transport people and stuff with her. Glimmer can be a backpack that can teleport the other 5 princesses inside a spaceship and they smash, or they can teleport to the engine an it goes boom, or they teleport to the bridge and one spacheship rams another, rinse and repeat dozens of strategies that work. The nice thing about spaceships is you know where the enemy is, no guerilla war holding territory, you just need the power and endurance to smash.
All of which is possible if you get a friendship plus planet power up. Then you either deus ex machima the ending like it is Lord of the Rings or you go Avatar the Last Airbender route and you take down the drill and the airships.
Teleportation plus generative superpowers from nothing ex nihlo is not like traditional war. You can win via demigod methods without *instant victory* as if god hand waved it deus ex machima.
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
Mother****ing high five for the War Planets reference Aotrs *highfive*
*high fives*
That series was fracking great, it's just on top of that, it also set the gold standard for mass fighter combat that has insanely not been equalled, let alone topped, in the decades since.
I'm not bitter about that AT ALL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaZodiac
Spoiler
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Anyway Adora literally doesn't need the sword that's one of the things we explicitly learn about in the Mara flashback, so destroying the sword is nothing but a good thing she just needs to come to this same realization that... well, "I have the power".
I mean, like, yeah, obviously; I was just kind of playing along with what reaction we're supposed to be having...!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ramza00
There many ways you write the end.
Spoiler: For Example
Show
Spaceships have weak points both structurally and also key things that go boom or the spaceship does not work if key thing is removed.
They have a teleporter who can transport people and stuff with her. Glimmer can be a backpack that can teleport the other 5 princesses inside a spaceship and they smash, or they can teleport to the engine an it goes boom, or they teleport to the bridge and one spacheship rams another, rinse and repeat dozens of strategies that work. The nice thing about spaceships is you know where the enemy is, no guerilla war holding territory, you just need the power and endurance to smash.
All of which is possible if you get a friendship plus planet power up. Then you either deus ex machima the ending like it is Lord of the Rings or you go Avatar the Last Airbender route and you take down the drill and the airships.
Teleportation plus generative superpowers from nothing ex nihlo is not like traditional war. You can win via demigod methods without *instant victory* as if god hand waved it deus ex machima.
Spoiler
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Like I said, deus ex machina.
Teleporting is great until you just can't teleport through shields, ramming starships into each other only works is the starships are actually REALLY stupidly close together (and don't have autopilots or safety features or...) and not, like, at an average distance of seventy-thousand kilometeres because that's actually what range their point-defence weapons cover and shooting bits out is the assumption that Bits of Starship are more vulnerable to Glimmer Blasts than the Black Garnet was. (Not everyone uses something as ludicrously prone to going wrong as the Federation, after all...!) If it's a starship capable of withstanding energy weapons that output enough energy to be comparable to a nuclear warhead, it's not going to be impressed by much even greater mortals can through at it.
Will they come up with a wya for them to beat the army? Yes, because otherwise it won't be a story.
Will it be a way that's not really set up as a bit contrived because if they didn't, the heroes would't be able to win?
Very much doubt it - but, as I say, no-one ELSE is any better at this (and it is very much my personal bugbear 1), so I can't harp on them specifically.
1Seriosuly, though could we not have it just once that the heroes go through and bravely engage the BBEG and kill him on his ship and blow it up, with all the usual sacrifices that entails - and then realise to their horror THAT DOESN'T WIN THEM THE BATTLE, because the highly-trained Evil Forces who were, of course winning (because they always are, because underdogs) don't immedtaelt scream, just curse and maybe fight a little bit harder and the good guys, despite killing the BBEG still lose the battle with the same inevitability they started it.
Does't have to be here - wouldn't expect it here - but just SOMEWHERE, some actual semblence of military credibility, when Narrative Causality's attempt to maximise Underdog-ness actually backfires on itself by painting it into a corner and the mcguffin doesn't actually allow a flip-of-the-switch reverse.
(I mean, we had it to a modest degree on the strategic, if not tactical level in the old Star Wars EU, but it'd be nice to see it done a bit more overtly as well.)
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Aotrs Commander I think we are disagreeing with the meaning of words for there are multiple ways you can parse the same words. [For example I can show an image that looks like a duck or a rabbit and which one you say it is doesn't matter if the image is too ambiguous.]
To me "deus ex machina" is like a lightswitch where if you do only one thing than all the threat and conflict goes away, like god handwaving the armies away such as Tony did in Endgame. Deus as in God, ex machina as in "from the machine" in Latin. Even though it is a latin term, its term originating from art history and art criticism with a similar greek phrase...for in greek plays 2000+ years ago "the gods show up" and they were often presented via a machine such as a crane and once the gods show up the rest of the plot is pretty much set in stone. Thus in things like tragedies the "ending has to end a certain way" for the person the tragedy is based on must have his necessary "karma", where they are made low due to their tragic flaw leading to a bad outcome.
To me personally, stupid ex machina (my word not a real world) where you defeat the enemy by making them stupid such as bad tactics and the heroes take advantage of this, is a completely different thing entirely. Stupid ex machina does not yield an instant win condition but instead allows you to win gradually even if after the point of attack event the victory of the heroes looks like inevitable even if there is some cleaning up to do.
Now is there a "bright line" that separates these two extremes? The answer is no, it is a gradient between the two.
Sidenote about Hordak Prime
Spoiler: Season 4, even though I do not think I am spoiling anything.
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Do we have any evidence that Hordak Prime tech has shields for his starships? Do we have any evidence for interstellar lasers and not just "local lasers" for the robots? I ask for what tech you want to give starships is dependent on the writer. Them wanting to recreate 1500s to 1800s naval wars, or 1850s to 1900s, or 1900s to 1930s, or 1940s WW2 fights and so on.
For all we know those spaceships are just ground troops and they are not meant for fighting other spaceships?
All we know is Hordak prime has teleportation tech and transportation tech. We also know Horadk not prime can create various forms of robots and lasers, but making his super powerful laser was not possible till Season 4 and incorporating some First One Tech.
Spaceship vs Spaceship laser may not be possible for Hordak Prime if Hordak could not do it without using First One tech. Or Hordak may not be able to create real cool lasers without the resources he is familiar with but he could not access for he is not from Eternia.
OMG I must share this She-Ra meme.
Spoiler: Links to an image, not a season 4 spoiler.
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
I have thoughts on the show and despite the fact no one asked here they are.
Spoiler: No one's said anything negative about DT so....
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I don't hate Double though they also never made much impact on me either... up until they destroyed Catra. That was actually very CAThartic, and I really like Catra for the most part. 10/10 roast. Actually to be fair I liked a fair bit of their dialogue and attitude I just wasn't in love with them the entire time either.
I do have issues though. Once the show introduced us to them I was never once surprised when they turned out to be anyone they were acting as I called it in every instance I can remember. I didn't catch that detail of there being no "Hey Adora~" in that fight but the moment Catra showed up I knew it was going to be Double. When Flutterina was getting an oddly large amount of screen time I knew it was Double beginning their plot to infiltrate the Princess Alliance. When Double was causing chaos I always knew when it was them. This isn't a bad thing per say and I'm not trying to say I'm clever or something. This is a kids show. I watch too many movies and shows. The show set up that there is a shapeshifting infiltrator, if they had gone the other way and not set this up and sprung it out of nowhere it would probably have surprised me but that's not a good thing either. None of this is really a negative.
The other thing I want to say about Double is that everyone seems to be woefully unprepared for the possibility of shapeshifter infiltration. The conflict has been going on for a long time and maybe these tactics have never been used before but... Shapeshifters exist proven by the existence of Double. They apparently don't even feel it necessary to hide the fact that they exist. Maybe Double is the only one but that doesn't seem likely. Maybe they are, maybe they are the only one to break the masquerade ((bloodlines: the redemption) Sorry) but I have a hard time imagining it. But again this isn't really that negative it's just me maybe overthinking a kids show.
But is Double actually that competent? I mean it's a kids show and more to the matter it's a story and if anyone of Double's talent was truly competent the story would be resolved rather quickly. The end. But they have allot of bad habits and seem to have succeeded on luck quite a bit. They shouldn't be muttering their true thoughts under their breath as much as they are for instance. Or changing shape casually in their room or a tent, these locations don't look secure enough that someone isn't going to just randomly spot them. Most egregiously using their deep cover identity to sabotage the "backup comms" when they know for a fact that said identity is already suspected. They shouldn't be appearing as Flutterina ANY time they might be seen acting against the P.A. Yes Glimmer and Adora would have just apprehended them since it was a trap and eventually they would see two identical people and the jig is up but Double didn't know that...unless this is a 5D chessmaster move and they were already preparing to defect and all the tough act after that as a prisoner was just a long con... But no. Double is good but they are sloppy in their own ways. Leaping into the arms of a Horde soldier within line of sight of their "allies" was also a bad idea. Maybe they were more distracted than I presume they were... maybe they had broken line of sight and it wasn't as obvious as it was to the audience but really they should just have just cut the losses and waited for a more opportune time. Sometimes you just have to scrub a mission.
Overall Double is an amazing addition. I wonder where they end up from here. I wonder if it's possible Double has been hiding in the background the entire time... Did they only just come up with them for this season or was this planned the whole time... It's been said Double has done more damage to the P.A. than the entire horde has for probably nearly a decade and I don't disagree.
Spoiler: ShadowWeaver. I am a person who vehemently believes that people can change for the better...
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DO. NOT. TRUST. SHADOWWEAVER!!!
People can change for the better. They can turn over a new leaf. People can learn from their mistakes. People deserve second chances... IF they truly want to change. If they sincerely want to and if they are willing to put in the efforts required. If they have the support systems and if they have the opportunities. BUT SW doesn't strike me as being a person who wants to change. If you asked her and managed to pry a truthful answer out of her she probably wouldn't even admit that she's even done anything wrong. She'd probably just lament that she wasn't successful or that she took the wrong approach but the fact that she uses people for her own ends... I don't think she regrets that at all.
She does it over and over. I don't know if she is the person she was in the sorcery...place she came from. I forget the name. I don't know if she's infected or being puppeted by some eldergod or something. I don't think it functionally matters. She's doing the same thing now as she did then. Using people, telling them whatever they need to hear so that they will do what she wants them to, putting them in danger and running away when it blows up in her face to start the cycle all over again. Maybe it's arrogance. "Hordak is awful and the P.A. can't possibly beat him, but I, I ShadowWeaver, I know how we can end this war and put an end to Hordak and I am the only person brave enough and powerful enough and smart enough to do it!" She's very smart, she knows more about what's going on that most people seem to. But every time a problem arises for ShadowWeaver, she comes to the conclusion that the only way to fix it is to use somebody to her advantage so that she can become more powerful or so that she can weasel her way into a trusted position beside someone powerful so that she can manipulate them into gaining access to more power for ShadowWeaver. Over and over.
Pay close attention to her reaction anytime anyone even thinks about touching "her" precious precious crystal. Anytime someone who isn't her is even in the same room as it throughout the series. How she reacted when Glimmer got it in her head that Scorpia needs to attune to it... SW made a mistake... Glimmer isn't Adora or Catra. Glimmer is Hordak... She's the leader of her faction. Glimmer can do ANYTHING that comes to her mind if she wants to by virtue of being in charge. It's not the Horde but Glimmer is the Queen of a monarchy. SW can't control Glimmer like she couldn't control Hordak. Not the way she controlled everyone else. I guarantee you that SW was trying to manipulate Glimmer into giving her access to, if not the magic power at the center of Eternia, giving her access to "her" crystal. She wasn't horrified that Glimmer walked away from her determined to use the magic power of the planet without full knowledge of how to use it, or before she was ready. SW was upset that SW wasn't invited to take part.
I love this show... it's amazing.
Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ramza00
OMG I must share this She-Ra meme.
Spoiler: Links to an image, not a season 4 spoiler.
Show
... I never knew I needed this as much as I do.
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Someone resembling Double showed up in a crowd shot of the Princess Prom, and Double is a character from the original show (though in that they were a girl, a good guy, and Glimmer's sister, though I believe she might have had the shapechanging power still) so they're not wholey unique to the show... but basically everything about them is, and I'd have to assume the people adapting the show designed Double before hitting season 4 and this is just the best time to use them.
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
Someone resembling Double showed up in a crowd shot of the Princess Prom, and Double is a character from the original show (though in that they were a girl, a good guy, and Glimmer's sister, though I believe she might have had the shapechanging power still) so they're not wholey unique to the show... but basically everything about them is, and I'd have to assume the people adapting the show designed Double before hitting season 4 and this is just the best time to use them.
There was some competitive energy from Double Trouble and Glimmer that in a different world could be competitive sister energy in Season 4. Also competitive cooperative energy where game respects game. Interesting history since I haven't seen the 1980s She-Ra. :smallamused:
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ramza00
There was some competitive energy from Double Trouble and Glimmer that in a different world could be competitive sister energy in Season 4. Also competitive cooperative energy where game respects game. Interesting history since I haven't seen the 1980s She-Ra. :smallamused:
In a peacetime scenario Double would be everyone's kinda fake nonbinary friend who lowkey hates all of them but likes The Drama too much to leave.
OG Double had a green suit of armour and a very long ponytail, and the only similarities our Double has is they're green and the tail length matches the ponytail and that's a cute design choice, I think.
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
Someone resembling Double showed up in a crowd shot of the Princess Prom, and Double is a character from the original show (though in that they were a girl, a good guy, and Glimmer's sister, though I believe she might have had the shapechanging power still) so they're not wholey unique to the show... but basically everything about them is, and I'd have to assume the people adapting the show designed Double before hitting season 4 and this is just the best time to use them.
Double Trouble wasn't in the actual 80's cartoon, but she was part of the original toy line. I think she was Glimmer's cousin or something too, though I'm less sure about that part.
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
In a peacetime scenario Double would be everyone's kinda fake nonbinary friend who lowkey hates all of them but likes The Drama too much to leave.
Tell me more? :smallamused:
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Re: She-Ra Season 4 is out, embrace your inner queen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sidhe_blooded
Double Trouble wasn't in the actual 80's cartoon, but she was part of the original toy line. I think she was Glimmer's cousin or something too, though I'm less sure about that part.
She was a toy so she existed, whether she showed up or not. Also her being a repaint of Glimmer would make sense. Looking at it she's got some differences design wise in the toy. Also she was in the comics and has A look that would be in the original cartoon, but I doubt she was actually featured in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ramza00
Tell me more? :smallamused:
The Horde and Lightmoon are two cliques at fantasy highschool and Double hangs out with both and thinks the Horde is pretentious with their goth style and Lightmoon is tacky with how prep and sparkly it is, but every time they say anything on the level of "oh I saw Catra do X today" where X is literally anything it sets Adora off on some zanny scheme because even though they broke up and are Over Each Other she has no idea how to cope with being alone. And likewise for Catra. It's just too juicy to pass up, and that's not even getting into the fact that both side's mutual friend, the autistic girl (Double has barely had time to catch their name, too busy playing the mischievous fae/Loki to them all) who always brings mini-cupcakes for lunch might be dating the weird scrawny nerd who eats alone in the computer class.
