Alternate uses for Hit Dice

I'm thinking of adding a couple options for spending Hit Dice - I'm interested in seeing if they'd be popular as well as other ideas to use them with.

I've noticed my players tend to either forget, or shy away from spending HD to heal, preferring to burn spells instead for some reason.

First idea would be to allow HD to be used to reduce Exhaustion. I'm currently using the Anti-Chumbawamba rule of "get knocked to 0 and healed up, you gain a level of Exhaustion". I like it in general, but why not allow those that don't, the ability to "opt out" by letting them burn a HD to remove it!

Second idea is a bit more controversial - convert the HP gain from spending HD to become spell points, able to restore spent spell slots just like a sorcerer normally can, at the same cost. So, if the party cleric is running a bit low on slots, the party can take a short rest and he can try to restore missing slots by burning HD. Say, a 5th level cleric is out of 2nd level slots and wants to get back a spiritual weapon or two before the party Long Rests, he can burn some dice. Rolling a total of 12, he can spend them to regain two 3rd level and one 1st level slots, or a 3rd, and two second slots, etc. Any HPs that can't be spent on slots (like a single point left, or all slots are restored and there's still points remaining) simply evaporate into the aether, unable to be used or saved for later.

An offshoot idea of that, would be to allow a feat that let the caster "reabsorb" any overage as healing, and THP if restoring more HP than they've lost.

Anyone else come up with ideas for using HD other than healing?

Won't providing more uses just encourage them to hoard them even more? As it stands, HD healing is basically free. The only reason to hoard it is if you feel like your healers might all die soon, and you want to conserve HD until then.

Using HD for exhaustion sounds fine but I think it should be around say 2 dice per level of.

As for spell recovery? It only makes sense for the warlock and something I do for my own at my table. Its severely limited though so it doesn't imbalance the class.
- In short once per combat as a bonus action you can sacrifice up to 5 HD to recover one warlock spell slot. The level of the slot is = to the HD sacrificed. You can only sacrifice up to a spell level you have access to.

Sacrificing HD for poisons or diseases would work as well. Though if you have a paladin or cleric you would be stepping on their toes. But if you don't it would help the party have access to more ways of dealing with those things.

No claim to being balanced.

Spend 1 HD to get back a class ability resource that's not a spell slot that refreshes on a short rest without a short rest.

Spend 2 HD to get back a class ability resource that's not a spell slot that refreshes on a long rest during a short rest. Sorcerers can get back 2 spell points per 2 HD. Paladins can get back 1 smite per 2 HD. That is, they get the spell slot back, but it can only be to smite not cast a spell. 2 HD can instead get back 10 hit points of Lay On Hands ability.

During a short rest spellcasters can get back a spell slot by spending spell slot level + 1 in HD.

Whether you use these ideas or not or others, you might also want to house rule you get back all spent HD on a long rest instead of only half.

First off, this should probably be in Homebrew. Second, a quote to respond to:

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Originally Posted by Davrix

Using HD for exhaustion sounds fine but I think it should be around say 2 dice per level of.

As for spell recovery? It only makes sense for the warlock and something I do for my own at my table. Its severely limited though so it doesn't imbalance the class.
- In short once per combat as a bonus action you can sacrifice up to 5 HD to recover one warlock spell slot. The level of the slot is = to the HD sacrificed. You can only sacrifice up to a spell level you have access to.

Sacrificing HD for poisons or diseases would work as well. Though if you have a paladin or cleric you would be stepping on their toes. But if you don't it would help the party have access to more ways of dealing with those things.

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I'd honestly say 3 HD per level of Exhaustion would be entirely doable, given the severity of the stuff that causes Exhaustion long term.

Trading HD for spell slots can work with all the casters, as it's a mechanically identical (when WotC does it's job of spell balance properly) benefit for all of them. Warlock actually normally shouldn't get anything from it, if it's attached to Short Rests, so they'll always have full spell slots when its available. Doing it throughout the day is slightly questionable, as the Paladin is turning those HD into 2d8 damage per HD.

Trading the HD for extra checks on various things, with bonuses attached, could be a more general style of doing it.

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Third, let's give a list of additional HD spenders:

Powering class/subclass features in general
Giving bonuses to skill and ability checks
Healing at reduced efficiency mid-combat
Increasing damage, which requires a dice downgrade

I've been preparing uses for Hit Dice other than Healing and the idea of getting rid of exhaustion is nice.

I prefer to make it so expending a Hit Die means rolling it, pretty much no matter what it's being rolled for. Based on that, I'd probably set a DC to removing the level of Exhaustion -- I'd math it over before playtesting it, but probably in the 5-10 range -- and if the value of the Hit Dice rolled (probably adding your Constitution Modifier, in which case the DC is higher) exceeds the Exhaustion DC they lose the level of Exhaustion. This has the nice little benefit of martial classes being a bit more likely to heal their Exhaustion with less resource expenditure, which appeals to me given (a) they could easily be dying more often, and (b) they tend to be the classes that would've trained themselves physically a bit more (not that Exhaustion is limited to that!).

Depending on the power level desired and with the caveat that they have to expend that class's Hit Dice (in case of a multiclass), you could do something like:
- Paladins being about to use a number of Hit Dice up to their Proficiency Modifier for Divine Smites when not using Spell Slots (powerful, but remember they can only regain up to 1/2 on a Long Rest)
- Life Clerics being able to supplement Healing (others included) with their Hit Dice
- Abjuration Wizards being able to expend Hit Dice (maybe capped at their Proficiency Modifier per use, potentially with a bonus) to reduce Damage they take or to Heal their Abjuration Ward
- Necromancers can Heal their Controlled/Summoned Undead (or give Temp HP?) using their Hit Dice (helps make up for it being so hard to Heal Undead)
- Transmutation Wizards and Druids can use their Hit Dice to Heal themselves while Transformed/Wild Shaped
- Conjuration Wizards can use their Hit Dice to Heal their Summoned Creatures
- Wild Shaped Druids can expend Hit Dice to change their form, with their HP being the lowest of [current HP + Hit Dice total] and [new form's Max HP + Hit Dice total]
- Bards can use Hit Dice instead of Bardic Inspiration Dice for some of their abilities (which and whether would depend on the Subclass)
- Wild Magic Sorcerers can expend Hit Dice to create Wild Magic regions around them (...if you like chaos, confusion and probable low-level death :P)
- Fighters can expend one (or more) Hit Dice when using Action Surge to get a second Bonus Action. If they make a Weapon Attack with that extra Bonus Action, the Hit Dice total is added to the Damage
- Monks can expend Hit Dice to regain Ki (probably using an Action, to make it less appealing, and perhaps half of their total rounded up)
- Rogues can expend a Hit Dice when they fail a Dexterity Saving Throw and, if their Saving Throw total + the Hit Die total allows them to pass, they pass (better) or only take half damage (kind of pointless given Uncanny Dodge, unless this ability doesn't require a Reaction)
- Sorcerer regains Sorcery Points using (probably using an Action and half the roll, like for the Monk [the different Hit Dice sizes helps adjust for Monks getting Ki more easily than Sorcerers get Sorcery Points])

I have allowed them to be added to saves in one game. You make a save and before seeing the result can chose to add a Hid Die to the result to power through the effect.

It worked pretty well, at least in terms of the intended effect. Healing in general became a bit better as it preserved this other resource and it boosted martials a bit - especially at higher levels where save began to become a lot more common.

It was interesting but also happened alongside a number of other changes I worked on.

The reason Hit Dice get saved is because of the time cost attached to taking a short rest. Giving soming like Con mod per long rest Healing surges to spend an action to burn Hit Dice may allow for more options. This does step a bit on Dwarven Fortitude a bit, but that's my first idea.

Another path altogether would be to diminish your regain of HDs and make them more important.

We've used the following in a game: you don't fully heal on long rests, but only regain half your max HDs. After which you can immediately spend them to heal like a short rest.

Which meant we were constantly very down on our HDs until we made it into a town/city and did a double rest in safety.

We use the get knocked to 0, lose 1 HD, get killed and rez'd, lose all HD. If you have no HD remaining, and are forced to lose HD, you gain Exhaustion. That simplifies what your OP suggestion was.

In addition to that, our DM has written some Magic items which allow us to use our HD as charges for magic items. I'm playing a Paladin, and I have a Magic Sword that allows me to expend a Hit Dice when I crit to add to damage, and I can do it a maximum number of times per day equal to my Proficiency modifier.

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Originally Posted by Pex

No claim to being balanced.

Spend 1 HD to get back a class ability resource that's not a spell slot that refreshes on a short rest without a short rest.

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Yeah, that's just way too much. For example, being able to use Action Surge again instead of a modest amount of healing is way too good. Especially at higher levels where you have more Hit Dice that still heal only 1d10+Con each (and only out of combat), and an extra action becomes more valuable.

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Originally Posted by PhantomSoul

I've been preparing uses for Hit Dice other than Healing and the idea of getting rid of exhaustion is nice.

I prefer to make it so expending a Hit Die means rolling it, pretty much no matter what it's being rolled for. Based on that, I'd probably set a DC to removing the level of Exhaustion -- I'd math it over before playtesting it, but probably in the 5-10 range -- and if the value of the Hit Dice rolled (probably adding your Constitution Modifier, in which case the DC is higher) exceeds the Exhaustion DC they lose the level of Exhaustion. This has the nice little benefit of martial classes being a bit more likely to heal their Exhaustion with less resource expenditure, which appeals to me given (a) they could easily be dying more often, and (b) they tend to be the classes that would've trained themselves physically a bit more (not that Exhaustion is limited to that!).

[snip]

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Here's what I'm currently aiming for:

Exhaustion
You can spend Hit Dice to cure levels of Exhaustion, regardless of the source. Level 1 costs 5 hit points, level 2 costs 10, level 3 costs 15, level 4 costs 20, level 5 costs 25 and level 6 costs 60. You can spend Hit Dice the moment you would gain Exhaustion, potentially staving off death. You have to buy off the highest level first.


For example, As a berserker barbarian, if you have 4 levels of Exhaustion, you have (5+10+15+20)=50 points to buy down. Spending 3 HD and rolling 3(d12+Con), say +4, you'd get, on average 35 points, and are able to buy off Level 4 (20 points, leaving 15) and Level 3 (15 points, leaving 0), and still have level 2 of Exhaustion.


Once you've used HD in this manner, you can't use them to reduce Exhaustion levels until you've taken a short or long rest.



Spell Slots
During a short rest, you can spend Hit Dice to create a pool of spell points. Each hit point rolled becomes a spell point, usable to regenerate expended spell slots. Unlike Sorcerers, you can't create more spell slots than you normally have for your class and level.


Once you've used HD in this manner, you can't use them to create spell slots until you've taken a long rest.

I like the rest of your ideas, just not sure how I'd incorporate them - probably as feats (I grant feats every odd level, so more feats = good)

They're not bad ideas, but I'll throw an idea that sparked in my mind: the more you make a long-rest dependant resource useful, the more appealing the long rests become. With this I mean that these rules may slow down the pace of the game, because players will want to use them as often as possible, which means long resting as often as possible, obviously depends on the people you are playing with, but still, just to throw it there as a possible heads-up.

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Originally Posted by Theodoxus

Here's what I'm currently aiming for:

Exhaustion
You can spend Hit Dice to cure levels of Exhaustion, regardless of the source. Level 1 costs 5 hit points, level 2 costs 10, level 3 costs 15, level 4 costs 20, level 5 costs 25 and level 6 costs 60. You can spend Hit Dice the moment you would gain Exhaustion, potentially staving off death. You have to buy off the highest level first.


For example, As a berserker barbarian, if you have 4 levels of Exhaustion, you have (5+10+15+20)=50 points to buy down. Spending 3 HD and rolling 3(d12+Con), say +4, you'd get, on average 35 points, and are able to buy off Level 4 (20 points, leaving 15) and Level 3 (15 points, leaving 0), and still have level 2 of Exhaustion.


Once you've used HD in this manner, you can't use them to reduce Exhaustion levels until you've taken a short or long rest.

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I would potentially tweak the numbers, but that sounds good otherwise, yes! I'd probably playtest what the time cost is (Action/Bonus_Action/Reaction/your_Turn means it can be used in battle with varying costs; 1 minute means outside of battle; 10 minutes is ritual-y; Short Rest might be too restrictive for what you're going for). I'd probably have "improved" versions for classes like Barbarians and Berserker Barbarians, but that could be the difference between getting a CON Mod for each Die versus a CON Mod per use of the ability. It might be good to limit the number of uses (e.g. once per Short/Long Rest or a number of times equal to your CON Mod), but Hit Dice being a limited -- and not fully regenerated on a single Long Rest -- probably gets you the desired effect anyway.

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Originally Posted by Theodoxus

Spell Slots
During a short rest, you can spend Hit Dice to create a pool of spell points. Each hit point rolled becomes a spell point, usable to regenerate expended spell slots. Unlike Sorcerers, you can't create more spell slots than you normally have for your class and level.


Once you've used HD in this manner, you can't use them to create spell slots until you've taken a long rest.

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I'd be more reluctant to (directly) create more Spell Slots; there's already "an" Ability that does that on a Short Rest (Divine Recovery / Arcane Recovery) and I'd want to avoid making that Ability seem meaningless (though it would mean you can Regain Slots from Hit Dice and from the Ability, so you still get more). It's also a huge boost to Spellcasters, so I'd definitely only do that if I felt how I ran the game was effectively nerfing Spellcasters too much. That said, the idea behind the Sorcerer using Hit Dice to Regain Sorcery Points was in part exactly to get more Slots back -- it helps with the feel that Sorcerers can cast more Spells and/or better Spells, but fewer of them (and in this case, at some cost).

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Originally Posted by Theodoxus

I like the rest of your ideas, just not sure how I'd incorporate them - probably as feats (I grant feats every odd level, so more feats = good)

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My feats are every-other but on even levels (I broke the regular feats up into half-feats, a lot like Kryx), great minds eh!

How I add things into my game is that the first introduction of an Ability/Feature is earned in-game. Using the Sorcery Points example, you have to find and somehow learn from the Blood Sorcerer. That Blood Sorcerer likely has a boosted version -- they're run as though they use Spell Points and when they Roll a Hit Die they obtain that number of Spell Points (otherwise having 0). Once the Ability is earned, the Character(s) get it. It doesn't go into the Feats immediately, but that is where they'll end up long-term (with an ASI Point cost based on the power in practice). Instead, the Character gets to be unique for a bit while we tweak the Ability -- it might be too strong or too weak. A (re)balanced version goes into the Feat list -- which may not exactly correspond to what the Character has (they're fine to stay unique; they did extra to earn that Ability!).

I also have planned one-shots to playtest Abilities a little -- and one-shots are spots where people can really go all out in trying to break balance with that Ability and you don't have to worry about long-term game-breaking things so much. I have a custom world and so the one-shots double as ways to see other areas, to experience events that went on in the background without the main Player Characters, etc.


Edit for new post:

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Originally Posted by Lombra

They're not bad ideas, but I'll throw an idea that sparked in my mind: the more you make a long-rest dependant resource useful, the more appealing the long rests become. With this I mean that these rules may slow down the pace of the game, because players will want to use them as often as possible, which means long resting as often as possible, obviously depends on the people you are playing with, but still, just to throw it there as a possible heads-up.

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Definitely agreed! For us it isn't a big deal so far because we apply the limit to how often you can get a Long Rest (we don't use the Gritty Variant, but that could help too), but it's definitely something to keep in mind. The idea is that there should be a trade-off or a penalty in using your Hit Dice, that's why multiple Abilities/Effects are being tied to them... if it's too easy to Regain Hit Dice, then you lose that! (I especially like that it actually takes more than one Long Rest to recover the full supply of Hit Dice; that adds a slightly longer-term consideration, since just taking one Long Rest doesn't reset all of these Abilities to their normal power/availability).

Adding other notes while I'm editing anyway:
- As a separate observation I've been using: Proficiency Modifiers are a nice way to use scaling. Your Proficiency Modifier is equal to a Paladin's/Ranger's Spell Slot Level increases, which means it's not only (a) an existing game mechanic you can use as an easy and accessible reference value, but also (b) a way to guesstimate power (e.g. 1d8/Hit_Die using a maximum number equal to your Proficiency Modifier is equal to a Paladin's Divine Smite, but without the 5d8 cap).
- Relevantly for the Smite-like Abilities, we counterbalance having a boosted Crit Calculation (MAX(dice)+roll(dice), not roll(dice)+roll(dice)) by having it so Abilities like Divine Smite need to be announced before the Attack Roll. This means you can't only decide to use the Ability when you already know you got a Crit, but have to take a chance with it.

I'm using Zman's rest mechanic:

Breather - can spend a single HD to heal (with these rules, could also be used for other things), usable anytime you're not in combat (essentially no time commitment). But have to take a short or long rest before you can take a second breather.

Short Rest - takes only 10 minutes, but can only be used twice before you have to take a long rest to recharge them. (I also changed the Monk's meditation to recover Ki on a short rest to only take 5 minutes, not 30)

Long Rest - standard 8 hour rest.

I think these rest modifications complement the additional HD rules.