How can you not love a class with a feature called "throat slitting prana"? [PrC]

Blade Maiden
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y26...ladeMaiden.jpg
Two blade maidens face a vicious aberrant armorlord.

There exists a sect of women from all over the world, headed by the elderly and guarded by the young. This sect is a society of warrior maidens that employ weapons invented by the original founders of this sect. The blade maidens of old desired to be one with their weapons, and did so by bolting the weapons right to their bones, through their flesh. Countless centuries these warrior maidens continued to prosper, working as assassins, mercenaries and guardians of cults and churches to strange gods. In combat, it is known that the blade maidens have a specialty, one that allows them to slash and remove the extremities of their foes.
It is only rumored, but it said by some that these blade maidens (or blade witches as some know them) and masters of twisted armors are vicious rivals. Many battles between the aberrant armorlords and the blade maidens have been seen, but rare few spectators survive such terrible battles to tell the tale.

HD: d12

Requirements
Race: Any humanoid
Gender: Female
BAB: +6
Skills: Balance 8 ranks, Concentration 4 ranks, Jump 8 ranks
Feats: Two-weapon Fighting, Unnerving Calm and either Perfect Clarity of Body and Mind or Reaping Talons
Maneuvers: Ability to use 3rd level maneuvers, and at least one of the Diamond Mind or Tiger Claw disciplines.
Special: Must have trained in battle with a blade maiden with at least four more levels than you, including at least one in this class. Must have had the same trainer bolt your blades of the maiden to your bones permanently.

Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (dungeoneering), Knowledge (history), Martial Lore, Sleight of Hand, Swim and Tumble
Skill-points per level: 4+Int modifier

{table="head"]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st|+1|+2|+2|+0|Blades of the maiden
2nd|+2|+3|+3|+0|--
3rd|+3|+3|+3|+1|Tendon severing strike
4th|+4|+4|+4|+1|Bloody counterstrike
5th|+5|+4|+4|+1|--
6th|+6|+5|+5|+2|Peel flesh and rend limbs
7th|+7|+5|+5|+2|Vicious slash
8th|+8|+6|+6|+2|--
9th|+9|+6|+6|+3|Throat slitting prana
10th|+10|+7|+7|+3|Slice out the soul
[/table]

{table="head"]Level|Man. Known|Man. Readied|Stances Known
1st|0|0|0
2nd|1|1|0
3rd|0|0|1
4th|1|0|0
5th|0|1|0
6th|1|0|0
7th|0|0|0
8th|1|1|1
9th|0|0|0
10th|1|0|0
[/table]

Weapon and Armor proficiencies: Blade maidens are proficient with the blades granted to them by this class, but gain no additional proficiencies with weapons, armor or shields.

Maneuvers: At each even numbered level, a blade maiden gains new maneuvers known from the Diamond Mind, Oncoming Storm or Tiger Claw disciplines. You must meet a maneuver's prerequisite to learn it. You add your full blade maiden levels to your initiator level to determine your total initiator level and your highest-level maneuvers known.
At levels 2nd, 5th and 8th, you gain additional maneuvers readied per day.

Stances: At 3rd and 8th levels, you learn a new martial stance from the Diamond Mind, Oncoming Storm or Tiger Claw disciplines. You must meet the stances prerequisites to learn it.

Blades of the Maiden (Ex): Upon entering this class, the blade maidens receive a special gift by their elder blade maidens; a pair of blades bolted directly to the bones of their arms. These weapons are of masterful design and perfect for combat, but is a closely guarded secret of the blade maiden sect. These weapons have a base damage of 1d8, deal slashing damage, have a critical range and modifier of 18-20/x2 and count as light weapons for the purposes of two-weapon fighting and are masterwork quality, gaining a +1 enhancement bonus to attack rolls and making them capable of being magically enhanced.
Additionally, they gain benefits as offensive or defensive based on how they are wielded. If wielded defensively, they are typically clasped to their arms, parallel to them and held up like a shield. This grants them a +4 shield bonus to their armor class when fighting defensively, but they are no longer treated as light for the purposes of two-weapon fighting. If they are wielded as offensively, they are held outward in a way almost like an agressive mantis. This reduces the penalties from two-weapon fighting to +0, but reduces their armor class by 2.
It is impossible to remove the blades from the maiden's body without removing their arms or wrists, but they can be folded back against their arms so that their hands may be free to do other things.
The blades of the maiden are considered to be preferred weapons of the Diamond Mind, Oncoming Storm and Tiger Claw disciplines.

Tendon Severing Strike (Ex): At 3rd level, the blade maiden learns a particularly cruel maneuver designed to slice and destroy muscles and tendons, though generally in a way that proves more or less nonlethal. This is treated just as a normal martial maneuver: you must ready it and expend it normally. It is an 4th level strike, and does not belong to any discipline. When you initiate this maneuver, you strike a single foe as a standard action. If your attack succeeds, they are dealt an additional 4d6 points of damage as you slash at their tendons and for every 10 points of damage you deal they are dealt 1 point of Strength damage. This strength damage can never exceed one quarter of your initiator level. This maneuver can only be used with your blades of the maiden.

Bloody Counterstrike (Ex): At 4th level, you learn a special counter that lets an enemy's weight and strength be used against them in a vicious way. This is treated just as a normal martial maneuver: you must ready it and expend it normally. It is an 5th level counter, and does not belong to any discipline. Whenever a foe attacks you with any sort of melee attack and are within your threatened square, you may hold up your blade and strike them with their own force. They are dealt 1d8+their Strength modifier+their Constitution modifier(if any) in slashing damage as they throw themself at your sword. For every size category larger they are than you, they take an additional 4 damage, and for every size category smaller they are than you they take -4 to this damage. This attack only works if their attack is successful against you, but the damage you deal is dealt before they can deal their own. This counter can only be used with your blades of the maiden.

Peel Flesh and Rend Limbs (Ex): At 6th level, you learn what is one of the more disturbing practices of the blade maidens, and that is techniques for removing limbs and peeling off flesh. You take a swift action to lose the benefits of any stance you're in to gain the benefits granted by this stance. While in this stance, you are capable of dealing damage to the limbs of your enemies exclusively, or your attacks can be made against their skin, which allows you to peel it off. To sever the limb of an enemy, you must make an attack against it. The limb's AC is considered to be 10 higher than the target is normally on it's own, but dealing one quarter of the target's hp in damage to the limb will sever it. Damage done to a target's limbs can never bring it below 1 hp.
If you decide to attack the target's skin, you gain a -4 to attack rolls against them as you angle the attacks perfectly. If you aim for their skin and hit, they take full normal damage as well as 1 Cha damage. If you do this, you can also reduce a foe's natural armor bonus(though you can't reduce a bonus granted by magical items or spells) by dealing 10*the natural armor bonus. So if you were to strike them for 20 through 29 damage you could reduce it's natural armor bonus by 2.
While in this stance, any round you make an attack roll in reduces your armor class by an additional -2. You can only use this stance with your blades of the maiden, and only if in an offensive stance with them.

Vicious Slash (Ex): At 7th level, when you strike at the vitals of your foes without memories of the attack, that is if they survive. Whenever you score a critical hit against a creature, instead of rolling for damage, you deal full weapon damage times the critical modifier of your weapon and add a bonus to damage equal to half your initiator level. Additionally, the critical range of your blades increase by 1. This ability only works when wielding the blades of the maiden.

Throat Slitting Prana (Ex): At 9th level, you learn a maneuver that targets the throat of your enemy in an attempt to make them drown in their own blood. This is treated just as a normal martial maneuver: you must ready it and expend it normally. It is an 7th level strike, and does not belong to any discipline. When you initiate this maneuver, you make one melee attack against a single foe at a -4 penalty. If this strike hits, they take 8d6 points of extra damage and must make a Fort save (DC 17+Str modifier). If they fail, they are immediately treated as if drowning. They will continue to do so until their hit points are healed back to full or their bleeding is somehow stopped by other means. If they pass this save they instead are treated as if having a bleeding wound, dealing 1d4 points of damage to them each round until they receive magical healing or the bleeding is stopped some other way. This maneuver can only be used with your blades of the maiden and does not work against creatures immune to critical hits or are in some way immune to bleeding.

Slice Out the Soul (Su): At 10th level, your blades go beyond flesh and bone, beyond the subtle magic of the sublime way and you become capable of dealing out blows to the very essence of your enemies. This is treated just as a normal martial maneuver: you must ready it and expend it normally. It is an 8th level strike, and does not belong to any discipline. When you initiate this maneuver as a standard action, you make one melee attack against a single foe. When it hits, they take 10d8 points of damage and they must make a Will save (DC 18+Cha modifier) or suffer 1d6 Cha drain and 1d6 Con drain as you slash away at their soul. If they pass their save they take only 1 damage to both scores. This maneuver can only be initiated through their blades of the maiden.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf

{table="head"]Level|Man. Known|Man. Readied|Stances Known
1st|0|0|0
2nd|1|1|0
3rd|0|0|1
4th|1|0|0
5th|0|1|0
6th|1|0|0
7th|0|0|0
8th|1|1|1
9th|0|0|0
10th|1|0|0
[/table]

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You might want to change the numbers to total known; the first time I read it, I though 'wait, why do they only get maneuvers at levels 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10, and why do they lose them?' (Although when I read it, I did get it right -.-').

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Originally Posted by The Dark Fiddler

You might want to change the numbers to total known; the first time I read it, I though 'wait, why do they only get maneuvers at levels 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10, and why do they lose them?' (Although when I read it, I did get it right -.-').

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If I did that, I'd have to go back and do that to all the rest of my PrC's. I'm just using the same format they did in the book.

Picky Mode:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf

Throat Slitting Prana (Ex): At 9th level, you learn a maneuver that targets the throat of your ally in an attempt to make them drown in their own blood.

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This may cause some misunderstanding between allies. I assume it should be enemy, but then again...

I'm not really experienced enough to properly comment on this, but it looks pretty neat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crown of Thorns

Picky Mode:



This may cause some misunderstanding between allies. I assume it should be enemy, but then again...

I'm not really experienced enough to properly comment on this, but it looks pretty neat.

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Oh, will fix immediately.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf

Vicious Slash (Ex): At 7th level, when you strike at the vitals of your foes without memories of the attack, that is if they survive. Whenever you score a critical hit against a creature, instead of rolling for damage, you deal full weapon damage times the critical modifier of your weapon and add a bonus to damage equal to half your initiator level. Additionally, the critical range of your blades increase by 1. This ability only works when wielding the blades of the maiden.

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Ok, if you have imp crit in this wep what would it's crit range look like, 14-20?

Prana = "Spiritual Energy" in Sanskrit

For those who care.

Have to say, awesome as always.

I do have to wonder what happens when one or both of the blades is sundered. :smallconfused: That's gotta be a pain to fix...

Cool as usual. But how to adress sundering problems with your permanently bolted arm blades?

Edit: Twice damn you strawberryman.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by strawberryman

Have to say, awesome as always.

I do have to wonder what happens when one or both of the blades is sundered. :smallconfused: That's gotta be a pain to fix...

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How about rulling that you just need an hour of uniterupted rest to regrow them?

Great class, Blackleaf. I always wanted to make a PrC along these designs, but I doubt I could have done such a good job. Could you possible suggest an alternative third discipline for those of us who only use the Bo9S ones? Maybe setting sun or iron heart.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Draken

Cool as usual. But how to adress sundering problems with your permanently bolted arm blades?

Edit: Twice damn you strawberryman.

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Just treat 'em like natural weapons, unsunderable.

Okay, now for a more detailed analysis.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf

HD: d12

Requirements
Race: Any humanoid
Gender: Female
BAB: +6
Skills: Balance 8 ranks, Concentration 4 ranks, Jump 8 ranks
Feats: Two-weapon Fighting, Unnerving Calm and either Perfect Clarity of Body and Mind or Reaping Talons
Maneuvers: Ability to use 3rd level maneuvers, and at least one of the Diamond Mind or Tiger Claw disciplines.
Special: Must have trained in battle with a blade maiden with at least four more levels than you, including at least one in this class. Must have had the same trainer bolt your blades of the maiden to your bones permanently.

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Everything seems in order, just that the 8 ranks in a skill suggest it should be viable for a 5th level PC, but you can only take "Perfect Clarity of Body and Mind or Reaping Talons" at level 6.
I also do not like gender specific PrC, but blade maiden is such a cool name I will let that slide.
Also, any particular reason for the race requirement?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf

Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (dungeoneering), Knowledge (history), Martial Lore, Swim and Tumble
Skill-points per level: 4+Int modifier

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Given that they gain access to oncoming storm, it seems fitting to give htem the disciplines key skill sleigh of hands, even if it does seem a bit weird...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf

{table="head"]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st|+1|+2|+2|+0|Blades of the maiden
2nd|+2|+3|+3|+0|--
3rd|+3|+3|+3|+1|Tendon severing strike
4th|+4|+4|+4|+1|Bloody counterstrike
5th|+5|+4|+4|+1|--
6th|+6|+5|+5|+2|Peel flesh and rend limbs
7th|+7|+5|+5|+2|Vicious slash
8th|+8|+6|+6|+2|--
9th|+9|+6|+6|+3|Throat slitting prana
10th|+10|+7|+7|+3|Slice out the soul
[/table]

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I'm not to sure how this class fits the "good ref save" crowd. It seems aimed at warblades, who already have battle clarity. Maybe give them battle clarity, and allow warblades to use it even when there flat footed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf

{table="head"]Level|Man. Known|Man. Readied|Stances Known
1st|0|0|0
2nd|1|1|0
3rd|0|0|1
4th|1|0|0
5th|0|1|0
6th|1|0|0
7th|0|0|0
8th|1|1|1
9th|0|0|0
10th|1|0|0
[/table]

Weapon and Armor proficiencies: Blade maidens are proficient with the blades granted to them by this class, but gain no additional proficiencies with weapons, armor or shields.

Maneuvers: At each even numbered level, a blade maiden gains new maneuvers known from the Diamond Mind, Oncoming Storm or Tiger Claw disciplines. You must meet a maneuver's prerequisite to learn it. You add your full blade maiden levels to your initiator level to determine your total initiator level and your highest-level maneuvers known.
At levels 2nd, 5th and 8th, you gain additional maneuvers readied per day.

Stances: At 3rd and 8th levels, you learn a new martial stance from the Diamond Mind, Oncoming Storm or Tiger Claw disciplines. You must meet the stances prerequisites to learn it.

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Everything seems fine here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf

Blades of the Maiden (Ex): Upon entering this class, the blade maidens receive a special gift by their elder blade maidens; a pair of blades bolted directly to the bones of their arms. These weapons are of masterful design and perfect for combat, but is a closely guarded secret of the blade maiden sect. These weapons have a base damage of 1d8, deal slashing damage, have a critical range and modifier of 18-20/x2 and count as light weapons for the purposes of two-weapon fighting and are masterwork quality, gaining a +1 enhancement bonus to attack rolls and making them capable of being magically enhanced.
Additionally, they gain benefits as offensive or defensive based on how they are wielded. If wielded defensively, they are typically clasped to their arms, parallel to them and held up like a shield. This grants them a +4 shield bonus to their armor class when fighting defensively, but they are no longer treated as light for the purposes of two-weapon fighting. If they are wielded as offensively, they are held outward in a way almost like an agressive mantis. This reduces the penalties from two-weapon fighting to +0, but reduces their armor class by 2.
It is impossible to remove the blades from the maiden's body without removing their arms or wrists, but they can be folded back against their arms so that their hands may be free to do other things.

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This bothers me a bit. As a whole 10 levels, this class is fine. But this feature makes it a bit of a one dip class. I suggest starting them off with 2 MW short swords without the offensive/defensive ability.

At 2nd level they gain the offensive/defensive ability.
At 5th level, the damage increases to 1d8.
At 8th level, the critical threat range increases.

This would fill all dead levels and reduce the dipping factor of the class.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf

Tendon Severing Strike (Ex): At 3rd level, the blade maiden learns a particularly cruel maneuver designed to slice and destroy muscles and tendons, though generally in a way that proves more or less nonlethal. This is treated just as a normal martial maneuver: you must ready it and expend it normally. It is an 4th level strike, and does not belong to any discipline. When you initiate this maneuver, you strike a single foe as a standard action. If your attack succeeds, they are dealt an additional 4d6 points of damage as you slash at their tendons and for every 10 points of damage you deal they are dealt 1 point of Strength damage. This strength damage can never exceed one quarter of your initiator level. This maneuver can only be used with your blades of the maiden.

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I like the idea of new manoeuvres and this is a good strike. Might want to clarify what happens if a 5th level master of the nine readies one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf

Bloody Counterstrike (Ex): At 4th level, you learn a special counter that lets an enemy's weight and strength be used against them in a vicious way. This is treated just as a normal martial maneuver: you must ready it and expend it normally. It is an 5th level counter, and does not belong to any discipline. Whenever a foe attacks you with any sort of melee attack and are within your threatened square, you may hold up your blade and strike them with their own force. They are dealt 1d8+their Strength modifier+their Constitution modifier(if any) in slashing damage as they throw themself at your sword. For every size category larger they are than you, they take an additional 4 damage, and for every size category smaller they are than you they take -4 to this damage. This attack only works if their attack is successful against you, but the damage you deal is dealt before they can deal their own. This counter can only be used with your blades of the maiden.

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Not sure about this. Desert wind is a pretty weak discipline and they can do 4d6 fore damage with a 2nd level counter. I suggest you allow them some other benefit, such as a free bull rush attempt against smaller foes and a free trip attempt against larger foes (they can choose what to do against foes the same size)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf

Peel Flesh and Rend Limbs (Ex): At 6th level, you learn what is one of the more disturbing practices of the blade maidens, and that is techniques for removing limbs and peeling off flesh. You take a swift action to lose the benefits of any stance you're in to gain the benefits granted by this stance. While in this stance, you are capable of dealing damage to the limbs of your enemies exclusively, or your attacks can be made against their skin, which allows you to peel it off. To sever the limb of an enemy, you must make an attack against it. The limb's AC is considered to be 10 higher than the target is normally on it's own, but dealing one quarter of the target's hp in damage to the limb will sever it. Damage done to a target's limbs can never bring it below 1 hp.
If you decide to attack the target's skin, you gain a -4 to attack rolls against them as you angle the attacks perfectly. If you aim for their skin and hit, they take full normal damage as well as 1 Cha damage. If you do this, you can also reduce a foe's natural armor bonus(though you can't reduce a bonus granted by magical items or spells) by dealing 10*the natural armor bonus. So if you were to strike them for 20 through 29 damage you could reduce it's natural armor bonus by 2.
While in this stance, any round you make an attack roll in reduces your armor class by an additional -2. You can only use this stance with your blades of the maiden, and only if in an offensive stance with them.

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This is the main one I have a problem with. There's a reason it’s impossible to severe a limb in most cases. Even with the -10 to hit. I suggest lowering the penalty to hit and instead giving the opponent some penalty.

For example, if they are two-weapon fighting, their offhand weapon becomes one-handed for the purpose of twf penalties. If they are wielding a two handed weapon, they loose all benefits of it, such as the 1.5 strength to damage and the higher power attack. If they are using a shield they cannot make shield bashes and the AC bonus is reduced.

As for peeling the skin, physical attack rarely reduce char, and lowered char rarely influences a battle, especially if it is just 1 point and the attack cannot be used round after round. I suggest making it two points and changing it to a physical state, maybe dexterity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf

Vicious Slash (Ex): At 7th level, when you strike at the vitals of your foes without memories of the attack, that is if they survive. Whenever you score a critical hit against a creature, instead of rolling for damage, you deal full weapon damage times the critical modifier of your weapon and add a bonus to damage equal to half your initiator level. Additionally, the critical range of your blades increase by 1. This ability only works when wielding the blades of the maiden.

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This is a nice ability.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf

Throat Slitting Prana (Ex): At 9th level, you learn a maneuver that targets the throat of your enemy in an attempt to make them drown in their own blood. This is treated just as a normal martial maneuver: you must ready it and expend it normally. It is an 7th level strike, and does not belong to any discipline. When you initiate this maneuver, you make one melee attack against a single foe at a -4 penalty. If this strike hits, they take 8d6 points of extra damage and must make a Fort save (DC 17+Str modifier). If they fail, they are immediately treated as if drowning. They will continue to do so until their hit points are healed back to full or their bleeding is somehow stopped by other means. If they pass this save they instead are treated as if having a bleeding wound, dealing 1d4 points of damage to them each round until they receive magical healing or the bleeding is stopped some other way. This maneuver can only be used with your blades of the maiden and does not work against creatures immune to critical hits or are in some way immune to bleeding.

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I like the drowning aspect of this manoeuvre.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf

Slice Out the Soul (Su): At 10th level, your blades go beyond flesh and bone, beyond the subtle magic of the sublime way and you become capable of dealing out blows to the very essence of your enemies. This is treated just as a normal martial maneuver: you must ready it and expend it normally. It is an 8th level strike, and does not belong to any discipline. When you initiate this maneuver as a standard action, you make one melee attack against a single foe. When it hits, they take 10d8 points of damage and they must make a Will save (DC 18+Cha modifier) or suffer 1d6 Cha drain and 1d6 Con drain as you slash away at their soul. If they pass their save they take only 1 damage to both scores. This maneuver can only be initiated through their blades of the maiden.

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I do not like the drain aspect of this. For a monster who only lives for a single encounter there is little difference between damage and drain, but for PCs against an NPC blade maiden...I'd make it ability damage.

Over all, nice class, with interesting flavour and a lot of original mechanics that work pretty well, with just one main exception. Once again, well done.

Quote:

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Everything seems in order, just that the 8 ranks in a skill suggest it should be viable for a 5th level PC, but you can only take "Perfect Clarity of Body and Mind or Reaping Talons" at level 6.

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8 ranks is just a nice, round number. And for martial adepts, the less of their precious skill points they have to spend, the better.

Quote:

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I also do not like gender specific PrC, but blade maiden is such a cool name I will let that slide.
Also, any particular reason for the race requirement?

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Flavor, that's easily enough handwaved if you want to.

Quote:

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Given that they gain access to oncoming storm, it seems fitting to give htem the disciplines key skill sleigh of hands, even if it does seem a bit weird...

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Yeah, I'll edit those in later (the sleight of hand is where they make the arm-swords vanish. Into your eyes).

Quote:

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I'm not to sure how this class fits the "good ref save" crowd. It seems aimed at warblades, who already have battle clarity. Maybe give them battle clarity, and allow warblades to use it even when there flat footed.

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The whole point of it is an agile, dexterous fighter. Duplicating the class feature would be a bit clunkier than I'd like.

Quote:

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This bothers me a bit. As a whole 10 levels, this class is fine. But this feature makes it a bit of a one dip class. I suggest starting them off with 2 MW short swords without the offensive/defensive ability.

At 2nd level they gain the offensive/defensive ability.
At 5th level, the damage increases to 1d8.
At 8th level, the critical threat range increases.

This would fill all dead levels and reduce the dipping factor of the class.

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The downsides to the offense and defense make them less than shiny for a dip, and 1d8 with a 18-20/x2 range definitely isn't worth just a dip for, when you could spend gp on the same thing. I think it's fine.

Quote:

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Not sure about this. Desert wind is a pretty weak discipline and they can do 4d6 fore damage with a 2nd level counter. I suggest you allow them some other benefit, such as a free bull rush attempt against smaller foes and a free trip attempt against larger foes (they can choose what to do against foes the same size)

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Interesting. I might just add in any bonuses on their attack roll, so they get hurt for power attacking or magic weapons.

Quote:

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This is the main one I have a problem with. There's a reason it’s impossible to severe a limb in most cases. Even with the -10 to hit. I suggest lowering the penalty to hit and instead giving the opponent some penalty.

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With the kind of penalties you take, and the amount of damage it takes to cut it off, severing limbs is rarely going to be overpowered, and probably won't be the most optimal choice except in a few situations. And the whole point of the ability is to cut someone's friggin' arm off. You can't replace that with a penalty.

Quote:

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As for peeling the skin, physical attack rarely reduce char, and lowered char rarely influences a battle, especially if it is just 1 point and the attack cannot be used round after round. I suggest making it two points and changing it to a physical state, maybe dexterity.

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It's a humiliation attack. Not meant to influence the battle.

Quote:

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I do not like the drain aspect of this. For a monster who only lives for a single encounter there is little difference between damage and drain, but for PCs against an NPC blade maiden...I'd make it ability damage.

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Any NPC with this ability is going to be at least CR 16. If PC's can't heal ability drain by that point, they deserve to suffer.

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Originally Posted by The Demented One

8 ranks is just a nice, round number. And for martial adepts, the less of their precious skill points they have to spend, the better.

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Okay, as long as your aware it can only be entered at level 7.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Demented One

The whole point of it is an agile, dexterous fighter. Duplicating the class feature would be a bit clunkier than I'd like.

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Fair enough. I was going to say that no other class has full BAB and a good reflex save, but this is a PrC, and I'm pretty sure there are others.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Demented One

The downsides to the offense and defense make them less than shiny for a dip, and 1d8 with a 18-20/x2 range definitely isn't worth just a dip for, when you could spend gp on the same thing. I think it's fine.

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Okay, might want to clarify that they have to be in one at any time. I assumed they didn't. Also, can they gain the +4 shield bonus to AC when they use combat expertise?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Demented One

Interesting. I might just add in any bonuses on their attack roll, so they get hurt for power attacking or magic weapons.

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That could work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Demented One

With the kind of penalties you take, and the amount of damage it takes to cut it off, severing limbs is rarely going to be overpowered, and probably won't be the most optimal choice except in a few situations. And the whole point of the ability is to cut someone's friggin' arm off. You can't replace that with a penalty.

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Well your free to keep it if you want, but I would not want it in my game. Also penalizes the PCs more then NPCs.

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Originally Posted by The Demented One

It's a humiliation attack. Not meant to influence the battle.

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Given that they have to ready most of their class features as manouvers, I'd make sure each one was an influence of some sort in battle. At least make the target shaken for a couple of rounds if nothing else.

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Originally Posted by The Demented One

Any NPC with this ability is going to be at least CR 16. If PC's can't heal ability drain by that point, they deserve to suffer.

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Fair enough.

You say that the bleeding can be stopped by "some other means" but don't elaborate. Why not list a heal DC? 15 is the norm for stuff like that, but if you want a nastier ability you could set it to 20, or make a sliding heal DC based on the blade maiden level.

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Originally Posted by Gaurd Juris

You say that the bleeding can be stopped by "some other means" but don't elaborate. Why not list a heal DC? 15 is the norm for stuff like that, but if you want a nastier ability you could set it to 20, or make a sliding heal DC based on the blade maiden level.

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It's kind of code for "The DM should make something up, like wrapping their neck until they can perform surgery or something."

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Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf

It's kind of code for "The DM should make something up, like wrapping their neck until they can perform surgery or something."

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Great, so what do you think the heal check should be to stop the bleeding?

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Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf;6774028[B

Blades of the Maiden (Ex): Upon entering this class, the blade maidens receive a special gift by their elder blade maidens; a pair of blades bolted directly to the bones of their arms. These weapons are of masterful design and perfect for combat, but is a closely guarded secret of the blade maiden sect. These weapons have a base damage of 1d8, deal slashing damage, have a critical range and modifier of 18-20/x2 and count as light weapons for the purposes of two-weapon fighting and are masterwork quality, gaining a +1 enhancement bonus to attack rolls and making them capable of being magically enhanced.
Additionally, they gain benefits as offensive or defensive based on how they are wielded. If wielded defensively, they are typically clasped to their arms, parallel to them and held up like a shield. This grants them a +4 shield bonus to their armor class when fighting defensively, but they are no longer treated as light for the purposes of two-weapon fighting. If they are wielded as offensively, they are held outward in a way almost like an agressive mantis. This reduces the penalties from two-weapon fighting to +0, but reduces their armor class by 2.
It is impossible to remove the blades from the maiden's body without removing their arms or wrists, but they can be folded back against their arms so that their hands may be free to do other things.

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Can a Blade Maiden choose not to wield the blades offensively/defensively? What action would be necessary to change between ways of wielding the blades (normal, offensive, and defensive)?

Pointless gender descrimination is pointless. :smallannoyed:

...If Concentration is a key skill for one of the disciplines, shouldn't it be more important for getting into the class? I just don't see how Balance would get you through the pain of scimitars bolted to your wrists.

Other than that little nitpick, I like it. Very interesting class. :smallbiggrin:

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Originally Posted by Myou

Pointless gender descrimination is pointless. :smallannoyed:

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Agreed. :smalltongue: 'sides, who says that a guy can't be a "maiden"? :smallfrown: 's just a title. :smallwink:

That aside, I love the class. :smallbiggrin: Very cool flavour.

Well it's just the fluff I came up with, and fluff is entirely mutable. I am actually making an NPC that's a male-personality warforged with levels in this class.

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Originally Posted by Krimm_Blackleaf

Well it's just the fluff I came up with, and fluff is entirely mutable. I am actually making an NPC that's a male-personality warforged with levels in this class.

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Haha, I think we were just bugging you. I know I was. :smalltongue: It's a sweet PrC.

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Originally Posted by Salvonus

Haha, I think we were just bugging you. I know I was. :smalltongue: It's a sweet PrC.

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I suggest just taking out the gender requirement, because there's no reason to stop guys taking a cool class. :smallsmile:

Oh, I do agree, but methinks that Krimm simply feels that the requirement is mutable. Since one can clearly demonstrate that to be RAI by his posts in the thread, I can't say that it bothers me too much. :smallwink:

I assume the maidens blades are preferred weps for Diamond Mind, Tiger Claw and the Oncoming Storm, right?

Hooray for thread necromancy!

Then again, it might partially be my fault, with me posting this class as an example of blood-based homebrew. :smallsigh:

As always, I love your work, Krimm.

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Originally Posted by LunarWolfPrime

I assume the maidens blades are preferred weps for Diamond Mind, Tiger Claw and the Oncoming Storm, right?

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Hadn't originally considered that, but that sounds reasonable. Done.

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Originally Posted by Temotei221

Hooray for thread necromancy!

Then again, it might partially be my fault, with me posting this class as an example of blood-based homebrew. :smallsigh:

As always, I love your work, Krimm.

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Such is the life of unexpected fame.

All the drawbacks of Defensive style are negated by the Oversized Two-weapon fighting feat, or by using a Strike maneuver that only uses 1 attack. Why not instead just impart a -2 penalty to all attack rolls, and offensive stance grant a +2 to attack rolls, -2 to damage. Don't bother trying to tie the bonuses and penalties to Two Weapon Fighting, since it needlessly complicates things and opens it to abuse.

Reason why I asked on the weapon edit is if you did that you could not use the maidens blades to use the tactical feats for the styles mentioned.