So, I got Professor Layton vs. Ace Attorney...

And around Chapter 3, maybe even 2, proceeded to shamelessly Gamefaq's the crap out of it. Now...really, I shouldn't have a problem with myself for this. I mean, in essence the actual aspect of gameplay in this game, much like (I've been led to believe) that of the 2 parent series, consists of figuring out tricky stuff. The reason it shouldn't be a problem is that if I really want to figure out tricky stuff, I have no shortage of venues for that outside of such a game. The gameplay itself isn't at all whatsoever the reason I bought this game. I bought it because of why I've wanted to get into the Ace Attorney series for some time now--the "colorful" characters, Grade A quality dialogue, fantastic humor, and deep, gnarled storylines, none of which has the game disappointed me on in any way, and solving a puzzle or 12 a la Professor Layton has even been an enjoyable bonus.

So you see, I really shouldn't have a problem with essentially throwing the gameplay of the trials out the window. Rationally, I see it like this: Would I rather spend hours trying to think out wtf I'm supposed to present next or the correct specific way to press, or would I rather just look up the right bloody answer and get back to why I actually bought this game? But sometimes, (and this is one of those times) trying to get my entire self to accept the rational course is like trying to get a REALLY belligerent ox to plow. My stupid brain is still going that I shouldn't be Gamefaqshaxxing things, even though I really do think trying to actually unstick myself from a problem spot would decrease my enjoyment rather than the other way around.

I've concluded that this is one of those rather uncommon instances where knowing I'm not alone in things actually WOULD help. So...if anyone else plays/played the Ace Attorney games or even Layton vs. Ace Attorney like me and is also shamelessly gamefaqs haxxing, please come forward.

I haven't played an Ace Attorney game for aaaages, but I don't think it's anything to be ashamed of. I certainly did it, a lot. I would always try to work it out, and a lot of the time I did, but sometimes the answer is so counterintuitive - you know you have to prove something, but the evidence you have to use is such a roundabout way to get it that you won't necessarily think of it.

It's a mistake, I think, to sit there with gamefaqs open and just blindly follow its instructions, but giving it a try and then looking for what to do is absolutely the right approach.

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Originally Posted by ShinyRocks

I haven't played an Ace Attorney game for aaaages, but I don't think it's anything to be ashamed of. I certainly did it, a lot. I would always try to work it out, and a lot of the time I did, but sometimes the answer is so counterintuitive - you know you have to prove something, but the evidence you have to use is such a roundabout way to get it that you won't necessarily think of it.

It's a mistake, I think, to sit there with gamefaqs open and just blindly follow its instructions, but giving it a try and then looking for what to do is absolutely the right approach.

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Well see...most times so far, my eyes have kind of not been able to isolate the single solution I need in the trial portion, and once I've spoilered the next 2 or 3 responses, well...on the most recent chapter I cleared, I kind of just went down the list completely after that happened. ^^;

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Originally Posted by Lheticus

Well see...most times so far, my eyes have kind of not been able to isolate the single solution I need in the trial portion, and once I've spoilered the next 2 or 3 responses, well...on the most recent chapter I cleared, I kind of just went down the list completely after that happened. ^^;

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Ha! Yep. I've definitely done that. It's pretty hard to resist the temptation to keep going. Unless the walkthrough is a gigantic nest of spoiler tags.

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Originally Posted by ShinyRocks

Ha! Yep. I've definitely done that. It's pretty hard to resist the temptation to keep going. Unless the walkthrough is a gigantic nest of spoiler tags.

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It didn't help that it was preeetty late at night by this point. XD

If you have to FAQ it a couple of times to get through tricky bits, no biggie--we all have limited time available, and spending hours trying to figure out one knotty puzzle is not really any fun. If you're essentially just following a walkthough because you can't figure out *any* of the puzzles, you might as well not bother, though...

Why not use the in game system though? The hint coins can be used during trials, and can be highly effective tools to help narrow down what you're supposed to do. Which is really nice, because Layton vs Wright still has a couple of the Ace Attorney situations where "man, I know who did it, but how does the game want me to prove it? I see multiple potential solutions here."

I check Gamefaqs if I get completely stuck. Most of the time, though, I try to figure the puzzles out on my own. Playing an adventure game with a walkthrough in your lap just kills the satisfaction from beating the puzzles.

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Originally Posted by Maryring

Why not use the in game system though? The hint coins can be used during trials, and can be highly effective tools to help narrow down what you're supposed to do. Which is really nice, because Layton vs Wright still has a couple of the Ace Attorney situations where "man, I know who did it, but how does the game want me to prove it? I see multiple potential solutions here."

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Honestly, it just occurred to me earlier today that yeah, I should probably use the hint coins there. As to why it didn't previously, I cite excitement on initial acquisition of the game and as before, that at Chapter 4 it was pretty darn late at night and I wasn't thinking straight anyway.

Fair enough. Late night is an acceptable excuse for (almost) everything. :smalltongue:

But eh. There's nothing wrong using one or the other. I like the hint coin system because usually, I don't need to know what to say, I just need to confirm which of two options I *shouldn't* be using. Still, it's a great game. The third case is by far my favourite.

It does help to try and muddle through the trials, because doing that will let you grasp the strange and glorious moon logic on which the Phoenix Wright series operates and help you make educated guesses about what sort of things you need to present and when.

Also, there are a lot of really funny bits in Ace Attorney that only show up if you get something wrong. I'm pretty sure Edgeworth's legendary "Does the defense stand have a 'Kick me' sign on it!?" line is from one of the incorrect choices, for example.

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Originally Posted by Maryring

Why not use the in game system though? The hint coins can be used during trials, and can be highly effective tools to help narrow down what you're supposed to do. Which is really nice, because Layton vs Wright still has a couple of the Ace Attorney situations where "man, I know who did it, but how does the game want me to prove it? I see multiple potential solutions here."

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Yeah, we have all been there. I know the answer, but I have no idea how the game expects me to prove it. Or the occasional skipping of a step, because you already know the clinching piece of evidence to the line of inquiry, but you need to mention something else incidental to get there. Nothing wrong with some help. I use an faq whenever Apollo's perception scenes come up. I'm not going to dither for ten minutes looking for sweat to accumulate or the witness to pick her nose.

How good is the cross over? I'm debating about picking it up next week or waiting awhile.

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Originally Posted by Legato Endless

How good is the cross over? I'm debating about picking it up next week or waiting awhile.

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Well, I'd say it brings the strengths of both series together nicely. The four cases work like usual Phoenix Wright cases (with nice music, by the way) with a new gimmick for Labyrinthian trials; it adds to the fun and silliness. Go ahead and use those hint coins, too. There's plenty.

The Layton side gets a little light, though. Few of the puzzles really made me scratch my head for long, and there aren't as many as in his solo titles. But they are pretty and less static than the first ones, so that's still good.

There's more video and voice bits than usual for either title.

And the best part is the story's got the Layton twist ending.

If you're a fan of either series, this game's worth playing. If you're a fan of both, you'll be laughing at the little in-jokes.

I've looked at faqs before for an Ace Attorney game, because I think what sets it apart from other adventure games is the actual court session, and the silly "investigation" part which is basically cliche point&click was just holding me from reaching that.

So, there.

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Originally Posted by Rodin

Also, there are a lot of really funny bits in Ace Attorney that only show up if you get something wrong. I'm pretty sure Edgeworth's legendary "Does the defense stand have a 'Kick me' sign on it!?" line is from one of the incorrect choices, for example.

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I can't find that from a straight up web search. 5,000 YES points if you can link me a video.

I believe it's from Game 3, Case... 5?

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Originally Posted by Legato Endless

How good is the cross over? I'm debating about picking it up next week or waiting awhile.

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I've loved it. Had some issues with the emotional pacing, compared to other Phoenix Wright games (it followes more Layton's "slow build to climax with a few emotional wiggles", than Wright's "high point adrenaline spikes at the end of each case." Once I recalibrated my expectations it was fine). Currently about to enter the last trial.

Basically, take the Wright games where it throws in scene investigation, and replace those parts with Layton gameplay. I feel it works quite well.

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Originally Posted by PhantomFox

I believe it's from Game 3, Case... 5?

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Correct. I don't think there's any actual videos out from that particular scene, so you should experience it yourself. But then, you should really experience 3-5 yourself. It's perhaps the single best case in any AA game, except potentially 1-5.

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Originally Posted by Maryring

Correct. I don't think there's any actual videos out from that particular scene, so you should experience it yourself. But then, you should really experience 3-5 yourself. It's perhaps the single best case in any AA game, except potentially 1-5.

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Indeedy - it's why I end up playing the cases again. The Let's Plays of the games typically choose only the correct choices, which means you miss out on a lot of the incidental dialogue, like the running gag about the difference between ladders and stepladders.

I've checked gamefaqs for several of the games. I usually prefer not to because that moment of "getting it" can feel really great and I like figuring it out. But there have been a few times over the series where I was totally stumped and the decision between checking gamefaqs and repeating the scene 6-7 times trying every single item weighed in favor of using gamefaqs.

I only ever spoil a single thing at a time though.

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Originally Posted by Maryring

Correct. I don't think there's any actual videos out from that particular scene, so you should experience it yourself. But then, you should really experience 3-5 yourself. It's perhaps the single best case in any AA game, except potentially 1-5.

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1-4 is the best.

There was literally nothing to beat the visceral sense of satisfaction at beating Manfred von Karma in the other games.

One issue specific to PLvsAA, is that the game actively punishes mistakes even if they don't cause a Game Over. If you exit a courtroom battle with less than full credibility, you lose Picarats, just like if you'd erred during a puzzle, further encouraging either hitting GameFAQs or just save-scumming in the true Ace Attorney tradition.

Compare this to the most immediately preceding game in the Ace Attorney series (at least in the US) - Dual Destinies. In that game, there was no real penalty even for running out of credibility - you restarted from the most recent testimony and just kept moving.

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Originally Posted by GloatingSwine

1-4 is the best.

There was literally nothing to beat the visceral sense of satisfaction at beating Manfred von Karma in the other games.

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Godot is in the very close running. I really liked him and how you finally defeat him at the end of game 3 was just excellent.

Also whenever Miles Edgeworth is on screen. Gosh I love that guy.

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Originally Posted by GloatingSwine

1-4 is the best.

There was literally nothing to beat the visceral sense of satisfaction at beating Manfred von Karma in the other games.

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I might be inclined to agree, if not for the large amount of headbanging stupidity that the case depended on.

Spoiler

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Wright, what could *possibly* compel you to show Manfred the letter that without a doubt proves Edgeworth's innocence?

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Originally Posted by Anarion

Godot is in the very close running. I really liked him and how you finally defeat him at the end of game 3 was just excellent.

Also whenever Miles Edgeworth is on screen. Gosh I love that guy.

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I liked 3-5 best, but not for Godot - it was actually

Spoiler: 3-5

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The epic beatdown you give to Dahlia Hawthorne. Most hated criminal dealt with in the most epic manner.

My favorite prosecutor (after the obvious choice of Edgeworth) is actually Klavier Gavin. A prosecutor who actually wants to find the truth? Achtung, baby!

And wow, a Google search for Achtung has "achtung baby" as the first suggestion. Scary.

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Originally Posted by Rodin

I liked 3-5 best, but not for Godot - it was actually

Spoiler: 3-5

Show

The epic beatdown you give to Dahlia Hawthorne. Most hated criminal dealt with in the most epic manner.

My favorite prosecutor (after the obvious choice of Edgeworth) is actually Klavier Gavin. A prosecutor who actually wants to find the truth? Achtung, baby!

And wow, a Google search for Achtung has "achtung baby" as the first suggestion. Scary.

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Agree with the spoiled thing. Very epic.

And also agree with Gavin. He grows on you a surprising amount. And I like his guitar riff. >_>