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Will Save World for Gold
Thread for this comic.
The old seems to have died. I am making new one, to ask a question due to my lack of 4e knowledge. Spoiled for anyone that hasn't read the current page. Spoiler
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Does 4e follow the -10hp=dead and -9 through -1=bleeding to death rules. If so I believe Odivallus is dead.
There is little ghost effect but the math adds up. He was unconscious and bleeding to death. With the above rules that means he had, at most, -1hp. He was then healed for 10, putting at a max of 9 hp. The dragon fell on him for 22, putting him at a max of -13 hp.
My next question is then, can a level 2 or 3 character bring someone back from the dead in 4e? I doubt it, but just want to check.
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
In 4e, you can go half your max hp into the negatives before you die. He's badly hurt, but not necessarily dead.
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
Spoiler
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No and no; 4e makes it relatively difficult to kill PCs via HP damage. The 'dying' threshold is from 0 to their negative bloodied value, or half of their maximum HP. Depending on Odivallus's Con score he should be able to go to.. I'd guess probably around -15? 'Bleeding to death' doesn't work the same way, either; instead of losing further HP, you begin making death saves- if you fail 3 of those before succeeding one or receiving treatment, you die. Generally this means character deaths either happen in multiples or they don't happen, because it's pretty easy to save a dying character.. so either monsters are being especially brutal and deliberately executing downed characters with further focus fire, everybody who could heal the downed characters also is down, or the downed people get picked up in routine post-battle care. Odivallus will fall in that third category- he's down, but has not even begun rolling those death saves, and there aren't any other monsters around to prevent the rest of his party from helping him.
(Exception to above: Characters who go down in the area of a continuing damage effect/monster's aura/other thing that contributes damage without requiring any particular focus or action. Those can eat downed characters quite efficiently.)
As for raising dead, being able to do it on a combat-relevant timeframe (ie, 1 standard action) is a very high-level thing. But out of combat ressing is fairly available; it's a relatively low-level and inexpensive ritual, IIRC. None of the party probably know how to do it (especially because Odivallus is the one most likely to have the requisite feat to do Rituals in the first place), but they could pretty readily afford to hire somebody else to do it.
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
Is anyone else at the point were there so sick of Ardon that not only would they out and out refuse to be playing with someone who was running a character like this, but there preparing to stop reading the comic unless something happens that's really bad for him and either forces him to change as a character or just die?
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
I am not sure I understand. We are suppose to hate Ardon. We are suppose to want something bad to happen to him, especially now that he has crossed the moral event horizon with the last page. That is the point. I personally hope that this causes Ell and Odivallus to feel they no longer owe Ardon anything and quit, taking Peanut with them of course.
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
This is the first time I've felt real hatred for Ardon, but I don't count that as a faux pas to the author. The fact that he can write a character whom I truly hate is something which many writers struggle with.
I trust whatever resolution we'll see will make sense to the story and the character's reactions will be appropriate.
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I'm now actually hoping that the lawful stupid elf girl leader remains on the protagonist team rather than switching with Ardon again, and that Ardon becomes a recurring villain…...
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I dunno. Honestly, I'd guess Ardon is bluffing. Yes, he's self-centered, amoral, greedy, obnoxious and an all around terrible person, but twice now he's shown some degree of genuine caring for his team. I find myself unable to hate him over this latest travesty, not that I'm at a lack for other reasons, because if he isn't bluffing than I'd consider it entirely out of character for him.
And although I fully expect him to get chewed out for this, a large part of the arc has been devoted to showing that he is a very efficient leader despite his glaring faults and in some ways because of them. I don't like him, but I'm not about to stop reading the strip cause of him either.
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So this is another catch 22, while the terms of the bet have Ardon labelled as the 'better leader', Chandea showed some really solid leadership qualities by assessing the situation, listening to her team and making the right choice based on the risk.
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Yes, Sipex, again another reason why I think Chandea should stay with our protagonist team, rather than Ardon.
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I hope Ardon stays and not Chandea. Ardon is great, and has been a consistent source of amusement. Chandea is honestly pretty bland by comparison.
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Actually, Ardon's at the point were to me he feels like the authors Mary Sue who get's to do every bad thing the author ever had an impulse to do in or out of character in his life, and never, ever, ever get's stuck with meaningful consequences he can't wiggle his way out of, and who is constantly able to twist the wording of everything to his favor even if it was specifically written against him.
I actually know one two many people like that IRL, and as far as I'm concerned the human race would be that much better off if they should all have a heart attack.
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
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Originally Posted by
ThirdEmperor
And although I fully expect him to get chewed out for this, a large part of the arc has been devoted to showing that he is a very efficient leader despite his glaring faults and in some ways because of them. I don't like him, but I'm not about to stop reading the strip cause of him either.
Ardon might be a better strategist and a tactician (even that is debatable after today's comic), but he is certainly not a leader.
He is far more concerned about his own ego, and I just don't see why the other members of the team should follow his lead.
Forget about Chandra, what can Ardon offer that will be worth staying with him?
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
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Originally Posted by
random11
Ardon might be a better strategist and a tactician (even that is debatable after today's comic), but he is certainly not a leader.
He is far more concerned about his own ego, and I just don't see why the other members of the team should follow his lead.
Forget about Chandra, what can Ardon offer that will be worth staying with him?
I'd say his revenge scheme with the opera chick is good enough reason to keep him around. You never know when you might need a scheming evil bastard to take care of your dirty work.
Though I will say today's update surprised me. I didn't expect his entire party to be dead. Wonder how this is going to play out.
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Yea…..
…..I wouldn't call a guy who gets his party killed a leader….
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
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Originally Posted by
Metahuman1
I actually know one two many people like that IRL, and as far as I'm concerned the human race would be that much better off if they should all have a heart attack.
Heh. I've had a sneaking suspicion that the creator is a psychopath, or at least is morally blind. There have been a few hints here and there. However, it could be that the writer is intentionally portraying a psychopath, their methods, and their effects on others.
Either way, I still find the comic engaging and enjoyable. I didn't care for the farm-animals chapter, but it's picked up since then.
When it comes to Ardon, I hate him, but I love to hate him, which may be the point. If I were a character in the party, I would have killed him a long time ago, but eh. Great comic.
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I think Ardon had the party he was with get into as many fight as possible to get more XP out of the dungeon(grinding) not only for Xp but the other groups surges.
He did this to stop his rival in Chandra from coming back and ruining there jobs. It also establishes he is far more effective as a leader.
Also I hate 45... I want him to die he is the one character I hate
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
Well, that was unexpected.
Although it's perfect grounds for Chandea to become a recurring antagonist.
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
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Originally Posted by
Seerow
I'd say his revenge scheme with the opera chick is good enough reason to keep him around. You never know when you might need a scheming evil bastard to take care of your dirty work.
A scheming bastard might be useful to keep around, but not as the leader of the group.
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Originally Posted by
Lord Raziere
Yea…..
…..I wouldn't call a guy who gets his party killed a leader….
That might also be a result of luck since the encounters were random.
However, consider this:
Aradon had to physically pull two corpses (one of them was already decapitated) while a dragon was right in the next room, set everything up in, and all that just for a scheme to boost his own ego.
This is no longer bad luck, that's a "WOW he's not a leader" badge...
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
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Originally Posted by
Seharvepernfan
When it comes to Ardon, I hate him, but I love to hate him, which may be the point.
Ardon is just so beautifully hateable. An absolutely abhorrent creature, but a highly entertaining one when safely contained within the fictional world. Which is why I prefer him to Chandea. Chandea is annoying, but I don't enjoy being annoyed at her.
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
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Originally Posted by
random11
Aradon had to physically pull two corpses (one of them was already decapitated) while a dragon was right in the next room, set everything up in, and all that just for a scheme to boost his own ego.
This is no longer bad luck, that's a "WOW he's not a leader" badge...
Four corpses.
The whole gang is there. Which makes me think the dragon let Ardon do that because he found it amusing or something.
On the plus side Odivallus doesn't need to worry about competing with Stuart for Ell's affections. :smalltongue:
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A green dragon? Oh yeah, I could totally see it doing that just for the pure entertainment value.
But how did Ardon get into the treasure chamber? The only thing I can think of is it let Ardon in, possibly under some guise that he'd be it's prisoner.
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
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Originally Posted by
Lizard Lord
Four corpses.
The whole gang is there. Which makes me think the dragon let Ardon do that because he found it amusing or something.
On the plus side Odivallus doesn't need to worry about competing with Stuart for Ell's affections. :smalltongue:
I doubt the dragon just let him in.
The only reason it was entertaining is because it was a tie, and it was a tie just because the dragon was killed.
Besides, he killed four only to find it amusing to keep the last one alive?
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It seems to be the only way to explain how Ardon dragged four humanoid corpses (three medium, one small) into a locked treasure room while in combat with a dragon. The dragon found it amusing to watch him do it.
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
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Originally Posted by
Lizard Lord
It seems to be the only way to explain how Ardon dragged four humanoid corpses (three medium, one small) into a locked treasure room while in combat with a dragon. The dragon found it amusing to watch him do it.
It's also possible to simply run and hide, waiting for the dragon to search for him and get in the room.
Task might be easier since at least in some cases it appears he took only clothes and not corpses.
Either way, that's a lot of work basically for nothing other than to show he's the best for five seconds.
I have a sneaky feeling that this entire contest was planned to be a disaster.
I don't mean that Ardon planned on this exact result, but I suspect he thought this is a win win situation, something along the lines of "either I manage to finish off the other team, or prove that I'm a better leader".
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
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Originally Posted by
random11
I have a sneaky feeling that this entire contest was planned to be a disaster.
I don't mean that Ardon planned on this exact result, but I suspect he thought this is a win win situation, something along the lines of "either I manage to finish off the other team, or prove that I'm a better leader".
That sounds like Ardon all right.
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Also sounds like a guy everyone else in that room will likely be better off long term unloading there most damaging encounter power on right that second in a surprise round.
Also, there is the small matter of the fact that he actually accidentally admitted to killing them all himself in the second to last panel if you look closely at the grammar of the whole strip. That's all Chandea or Ell should need to be justified to waste him.
And 45 should let him have it at that point cause guess what, it only happened cause everyone was jumping on him to take care of the fact that he murdered innocent people who trusted there lives to him and used there corpses for a bluff to win a contest that at that point he had lost in every meaningful sense of the word, and lost horribly at that, which ultimately only happened because of his own idiocy and Ego-mania. He'd probably throw Peanut at him two and get the hit in just because.
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Well, Ardon is already looking bad. I'm surprised he was so honest about the encounter though.
Now, the thing is, if Ardon gets out of this (and he's a main character, I imagine he will) it'll be one of two ways:
- He does something which makes up for his crap
- He has an ace up his sleeve
Knowing Ardon? Likely the latter.
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
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Originally Posted by
Sipex
Well, Ardon is already looking bad. I'm surprised he was so honest about the encounter though.
The thing is, however selfish his advice may have been, he did have a point. He was playing the odds, and doing it in a fairly sensible fashion. He just got unlucky with a surprise random crit from the monster.
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
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Originally Posted by
douglas
The thing is, however selfish his advice may have been, he did have a point. He was playing the odds, and doing it in a fairly sensible fashion. He just got unlucky with a surprise random crit from the monster.
Yeah, if a crit was 26 hit points, that means a normal hit would have been probably somewhere in the teens. The dwarf was at "single digit hit points" meaning a hit in the teens would have dropped him, but left him alive, with Ardon sitting right there to Inspiring Word him back up the following turn.
That said, 26 damage, even on a crit, is pretty nasty for a monster in a dungeon for 2nd/3rd level characters.
Anyway, my guess for how Ardon gets out of it is letting Chandea take the bulk of the loot from the dungeon to buy up residium (sp?) to resurrect her party. It would also explain why Ardon went through the trouble of keeping the bodies with him beyond just the shock value/bluff check at the beginning.
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
I don't know if Rune of Mending is more efficient if you cast it on yourself, but I'll assume it's not.
He gave Ardon +7 hit points. He was in single-digit, so his maximum hit point amount was 9. 9+7=16. The crit inflicting -26 points of damage, so in the best case, the dwarf would have been reduced to -10 health anyway.
I also don't know if 4e has changed that, but in 3e at least, -10 is the "really dead" threshold for everything except the Tarrasque. If it's the same here, the +7 hit points would have been wasted since he was going to die anyway; and healing Ardon was better overall.
The real question is whether Grorek could have destroyed the zombie in one hit at that point. Then an order to do so would have saved the dwarf.
Looking for "D&D 4th edition death", I found this which says: "In 4th Edition, raise dead became a ritual that required 500 gp to cast. In addition, the target suffered a –1 penalty to most d20 rolls for six encounters of adventuring." The dragon's hoard looks like it contains more than 2000 gp, so resurrecting the whole party doesn't seem impossible.
It also says "4th Edition extended the death threshold to a negative number equal to half the character’s maximum hit points." so I guess the dwarf would probably have survived getting reduced to -10 or lower. A third level dwarven warrior ought to have more than 20 hit points total.
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Quote:
The real question is whether Grorek could have destroyed the zombie in one hit at that point. Then an order to do so would have saved the dwarf.
Most heals in 4e were minor actions, or part of an attack, so chances are he would have been able to try to do that and still do the heal.
Quote:
It also says "4th Edition extended the death threshold to a negative number equal to half the character’s maximum hit points." so I guess the dwarf would probably have survived getting reduced to -10 or lower. A third level dwarven warrior ought to have more than 20 hit points total.
Yeah not sure offhand what class he was, but just about any 3rd level character is going to have a minimum of 30hp. Even a Wizard with 12 con (basically minimum for a dwarf) is going to have 12+10+4+4 = 30 hp. A tougher class/someone with more con can be as high as 45 hp.
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
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Originally Posted by
douglas
The thing is, however selfish his advice may have been, he did have a point. He was playing the odds, and doing it in a fairly sensible fashion. He just got unlucky with a surprise random crit from the monster.
That's under the assumption that he is telling the truth.
Especially since he already won the contest, admitting he made bad decisions and lost because of luck is better than admitting he killed them intentionally...
Let's wait for the rest of the story, we still have 2 more corpses before the one he killed in "self defense".
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
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Originally Posted by
random11
That's under the assumption that he is telling the truth.
Especially since he already won the contest, admitting he made bad decisions and lost because of luck is better than admitting he killed them intentionally...
Let's wait for the rest of the story, we still have 2 more corpses before the one he killed in "self defense".
Personally I'm inclined to believe the version of events being relayed. I mean with this first death he's already more or less admitted that the Dwarf died as a result of a command he gave, even if it did seem like a strategically sound decision at the time.
If he were going to lie, he'd be giving a story about how it wasn't his fault at all, where he had a brilliant plan to win effortlessly, and the party didn't follow his directions, leading to their deaths, and the halfling attacked him because he blamed Ardon for their failings, or something along those lines.
Mind you Ardon may just be going with something that places more blame on him to make it seem more believable and exonerate him, but that's pretty meta.
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
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Originally Posted by
Seerow
Personally I'm inclined to believe the version of events being relayed. I mean with this first death he's already more or less admitted that the Dwarf died as a result of a command he gave, even if it did seem like a strategically sound decision at the time.
If he were going to lie, he'd be giving a story about how it wasn't his fault at all, where he had a brilliant plan to win effortlessly, and the party didn't follow his directions, leading to their deaths, and the halfling attacked him because he blamed Ardon for their failings, or something along those lines.
Mind you Ardon may just be going with something that places more blame on him to make it seem more believable and exonerate him, but that's pretty meta.
Okay, NOW I'm sure he's saying the truth.
And if there was ever any doubt, Ardon proves once again that even if he somehow survives this room, he has no place in that group, certainly not as a leader.
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
Shoot, Chandea! Shoot! shoot Ardon's worthless bad leader butt into oblivion!
alternatively, use him as a convenient distraction. take the treasure, throw him to the monsters outside then make a run for it while they eat him. it will be a nice ironic end for him.
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So...do 4E rangers use a kiss to mark someone as their "Hunters Quarry" or was that kiss completely nonsensical?
Crazy or not, I get the feeling I am not the only one rooting for Chandea to succeed in getting her revenge.
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
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Originally Posted by
Lizard Lord
So...do 4E rangers use a kiss to mark someone as their "Hunters Quarry" or was that kiss completely nonsensical?
Crazy or not, I get the feeling I am not the only one rooting for Chandea to succeed in getting her revenge.
No, the kiss was 100% nonsensical. Chandea is capital 'C' Crazy.
And I'm all for Chandea trying, but I still love Ardon, and he remains the most consistently entertaining character in the comic.
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
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Originally Posted by
Seerow
No, the kiss was 100% nonsensical. Chandea is capital 'C' Crazy.
I think she snapped. She wasn't crazy before the dungeon; now she is.
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As far as i am aware, kissing someone she hates like that can only mean one of two things.
1. The Author reads homestuck.
or 2. She just took the first steps into Psychopathy.
Either way i like it!
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This is turning almost impossibly sad in this visual medium.
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Originally Posted by
stsasser
This is turning almost impossibly sad in this visual medium.
I don't quite understand your comment. :smalleek:
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So that girl in the mask is who I think it is(don't remember he name though)....
Why is she saving Ardon? Is it a "only I can kill you" type of thing? That can't be it because she had her chance to kill him herself. She still does but she hasn't tried yet. Maybe she wants her party back first before she takes her revenge?
The only other reason I can think of is to save Peanut, but he seems pretty much out of danger now. After all, Peanut doesn't have a bounty on his head as far as I can tell.
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Wasn't she hired by the pain party to track him down? Or she may be after the bounty on his head herself, preffering to take "alive" over dead if the reward is high enough.
That or the reward states ONLY alive.
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Hired? Not really. They tried to convince her to help, but she claimed she wouldn't. She could be after the bounty in order to get her party raised. We know from the dryad that the bounty is dead or alive, but that he is worth more alive.
However, as she said, plans aren't her strong suit. I find it hard to believe that she would come up with the idea of pretending to be his ally so that she could take him in alive. As far as I can tell her plan is to rescue him while wearing a disguise she didn't even believe would work so that he doesn't recognize her.
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I have to say, Ardon is my favorite character, second only to Peanut.
I'd probably play Peanut, and enjoy my friend playing Ardon.
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I think this masked stranger isn't Chandea but is meant to make us think it is her, taking advantage of the fact that details, especially when disguised, are difficult to make out in 8-bit.
This woman is probably Ardon's sister or something.
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Hehehehehehe Minmax and Forgath Cameo:smallbiggrin:
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Hmmm, yeah, so, I think Ardon may really have had it this time. Elly and Od and Peanut may make it, maybe even 45 if he wants to hang around, but I think he's finally bitten off more then he can chew.
And I'm fine with that.
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So are they just going to ignore the fact that there was no evidence of a storm? Is the ground even wet?
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
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Originally Posted by
Lizard Lord
So are they just going to ignore the fact that there was no evidence of a storm? Is the ground even wet?
I believe he is referring to a metaphorical storm.
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This is the slowest moving comic I have ever seen, in my entire life. I would rather check up on it once or twice a week and have something eventful happen than to check up everyday hoping something does, and having nothing happen.
Odivallus has been drowning for 3 strips now. And the 4 strips before that was a single scene.
I do like it and all, but it is so slow. Odivallus could have run around searching for kina, gone to the beach, and swam out in one strip.
I know "it releases everyday". But I think that is just something LonestarNorth is doing in an attempt to have it gain popularity.
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
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Originally Posted by
obstructor
This is the slowest moving comic I have ever seen, in my entire life. I would rather check up on it once or twice a week and have something eventful happen than to check up everyday hoping something does, and having nothing happen.
Odivallus has been drowning for 3 strips now. And the 4 strips before that was a single scene.
I do like it and all, but it is so slow. Odivallus could have run around searching for kina, gone to the beach, and swam out in one strip.
I know "it releases everyday". But I think that is just something LonestarNorth is doing in an attempt to have it gain popularity.
Clearly you don't read Dominic Deegan, Erfworld, or Goblins if you are complaining this comic is the slowest moving you've ever seen. Compared to many comics I read, this comic is lightning fast. Actually I can think of very few story focused web comics that move at a very fast pace.
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yea, this comic is fast, there are others that are much slower. its a bit like complaining that the olympic athlete doesn't run fast enough.
I bet you that if I gone there now to check on it there would be a new comic.
*checks*
yup, I was right.
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The slowest comic? Seriously? This is probably, I dunno, at least the second quickest moving webcomic I can think of.
Yes, Odivallus' flashback could've been compressed, but that would've killed the impact of it. In comics, how many panels and pages you allot to something is incredibly vital. If Odi had just looked about for Kino, not seen her, been stabbed by jerkface and dived into the ocean, all in one page, it would have seemed stupidly rushed. And Odi would have also seemed stupid for trying to swim across the ocean.
Instead, each is given it's own page. This way, we get to see the situation escalate and spiral out out of control, until Odivallus genuinely has no better options.
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*necro'ed with staff permission*
Yes, Ardon. Yes you do.
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
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Originally Posted by
The Glyphstone
*necro'ed with staff permission*
Yes, Ardon. Yes you do.
Do you need to say "with staff permission" when you're a mod? :smallconfused:
And yeah, Ardon's reaction in that last panel cracked me up.
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Re: Will Save World for Gold
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Originally Posted by
Seerow
Do you need to say "with staff permission" when you're a mod? :smallconfused:
And yeah, Ardon's reaction in that last panel cracked me up.
It was judged the easiest way to avoid the mods having to deal with a bunch of reports of thread necromancy. We still have to follow the rules, which in this case includes asking for an exemption on necromancy. I asked Roland, since he outranks me.