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The Proteus (factotumish base class) (3.5) PEACH please
The Proteus is the ultimate jack-of-all-trades. There's almost nothing he can't do, but almost nothing he can do extremely well.
Adventures: A Proteus could adventure for any number of reasons. Most simply hunger for quests and treasure, although some seek to expand their repertoire of skills.
Characteristics: The Proteus is capable of, well, pretty much everything. He just doesn't excel at anything.
Alignment: Protei can be of any alignment.
Religion: The only deity Protei worship with any regularity is Fharlanghn as they seem to identify with his non-commital doctrine.
Background: Most protei slowly develop their skills over time, although some are trained by senior protei.
Races: Humans, being a very adaptable race, are by far the most common protei.
Other Classes: Protei often find themselves disliked by other classes who feel like they lack dedication to a particular Path.
Role: Protei are the jacks-of-all-trades.
Adaptation: A proteus can pretty much fit into any setting or game as needed. However, a DM might see fit to revoke (or add) Paths and Abilities depending on what power sources he's using for his game.
GAME RULE INFORMATION
Proteus' have the following game statistics.
Abilities: This depends on the Proteus' Paths. Generally, Proteus' find themselves relying on more abilities then they'd like though...
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d8.
Starting Age: As cleric.
Starting Gold: As rogue.
Class Skills
ALL skills are class skills for the Proteus.
Skill Points at First Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier
The Proteus
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1st|+0
|+0
|+2
|+0
|Paths, Trapfinding
2nd|+1
|+0
|+3
|+0
|Minor Power
3rd|+2
|+1
|+3
|+1
|Skill Trick
4th|+3
|+1
|+4
|+1
|Minor Power
5th|+3
|+1
|+4
|+1
|Bonus Feat
6th|+4
|+2
|+5
|+2
|New Path
7th|+5
|+2
|+5
|+2
|Minor Power
8th|+6/+1
|+2
|+6
|+2
|Bardic Knowledge, Skill Trick
9th|+6/+1
|+3
|+6
|+3
|Evasion
10th|+7/+2
|+3
|+7
|+3
|Path Ability
11th|+8/+3
|+3
|+7
|+3
|Minor Power
12th|+9/+4
|+4
|+8
|+4
|Bonus Feat
13th|+9/+4
|+4
|+8
|+4
|New Path
14th|+10/+5
|+4
|+9
|+4
|Skill Trick
15th|+11/+6/+1
|+5
|+9
|+5
|Improved Evasion
16th|+12/+7/+2
|+5
|+10
|+5
|Minor Power
17th|+12/+7/+2
|+5
|+10
|+5
|Bonus Feat
18th|+13/+8/+3
|+6
|+11
|+6
|Path Ability
19th|+14/+9/+4
|+6
|+11
|+6
|Minor Power, Skill Trick
20th|+15/+10/+5
|+6
|+12
|+6
|New Path, Bonus Feat[/table]
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Proteus.
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The Proteus is proficient with simple and martial weapons, light and medium armor, and shields (but not Tower shields).
Paths: The Proteus can select any "power source" from the game. At 1st level, he can use any two of those listed below, and at he gains an additional one at 6th, 13th, and 20th level. The Path gained at 6th level are treated as being a Proteus 4 levels lower, the Path gained at 13th level are treated as being a Proteus 7 levels lower, and the Path gained at 20th level is treated as being a Proteus 10 levels lower.
The Paths are as follows: Martial maneuvers, Psionics, Arcane Magic, Divine Magic, Binding, Shadowcasting, Incarnum, and Invocations. A Proteus cannot learn both Arcane and Divine magic, only one or the other. If a Proteus selects a specific Path, he gains powers as follows:
Martial Maneuvers: The Proteus can use Martial maneuvers from 3 different schools. He starts out knowing 2 maneuvers, and learns an additional maneuver every 3 levels thereafter: at 4th level he has 3 maneuvers known, 7th he has 4, 10th he has 5, 13th he has 6, 16th he has 7, and 19th he has 8. He can only ready half of his known maneuvers. He learns one stance every 7 levels, so from levels 1-7 he has 1 stance, from levels 8-14 he has 2, and from levels 15-20 he has 3.
Spellcasting: The proteus may prepare and cast spells as an adept of her class level. When this path is chosen, the Proteus must select the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list, the Druid spell list or the Cleric spell list from which to learn her spells. Once this choice is made, it cannot be changed. If the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list is selected, the Proteus may only learn and cast spells from three schools, which are chosen when this path is chosen.
Binding: The Proteus can bind vestiges as a Binder of 1/2 his class levels (minimum 1). He can bind 2 vestiges at 10th level, and 3 at 20th level. He can suppress a sign (as a Binder) at 5th level.
Incarnum: The Proteus learns to use soulmelds as a Totemist of 3/4 his class level (minimum 1). He draws his melds from the Soulborn list, and he does not gain access to the Totem chakra, or other chakras unless he selects them as a minor power.
Psionic: The Proteus can use psionic powers as a Psychic Warrior of his class level, selected from the Lurk power list. He cannot learns powers from a specific discipline (e.g. no Astral Construct). Selecting this Path also grants the Proteus "Wild Talent" as a bonus feat.
Shadowcasting: The Proteus can use mysteries as a shadowcaster, but he progresses as an adept in terms of Mysteries known (therefore only learns up to 5th level mysteries; substitute spells known for mysteries known on the Adept spell chart).
Invocations: The Proteus learns Invocations like a warlock, but with a different progression. He gains 1 new invocation at 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter, can use lesser invocations at 7th level and greater invocations at 14th level. He cannot learn dark invocations. Also, he can create an Eldritch blast with the following damage progression: 1d6 at 1st level, 2d6 at 5th level, 3d6 at 10th level, 4d6 at 15th level, and 5d6 at 20th level.
Trapfinding: At 1st level the Proteus can use trapfinding, as a rogue.
Skill Trick: At 3rd, 8th, 14th, and 19th level a Proteus can select a skill trick (Complete Scoundrel) for free, without paying the 2 Skill Point cost. These skill tricks do not count against the maximum number of skill tricks known, but he must meet the prerequisites.
Minor Power: A minor power represents a smaller investiture of effort to learn a particular skill. These are similar to Paths but are less definitive of what the Proteus can do.
Soulknife: The Proteus can create a mind blade similar to a soulknife's. It becomes +1 at 5th level, +2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th. He can throw the mind blade (as the Throw Mind Blade class feature) at 4th level, shape it at 7th level, free draw it at 9th level, and use bladewind at 18th level.
Sneak Attack: This ability functions as the rogue's. The Proteus' damage progresses as a spellthief's. If he wishes, he can learn Sudden Strike instead (same damage progression).
Auras: Gains Auras as a dragon shaman.
Smite: Can Smite Evil, Good, Law, or Chaos (selected when ability is chosen) as a Paladin of his class levels. He cannot select an alignment identical to his own.
Chakras: At 4th level and above, whenever the proteus gains a minor power, he can learn to bind chakras to his crown, feet, or hands chakras. At 9th level he can also select his arms, brow, or shoulders chakra, and at 15th level he can select his throat or waist chakras.
Armored Casting: This ability can only be chosen at 7th level or above. The Proteus can cast arcane spells in light armor as a warmage's Armored Casting. This ability does not progress to medium armor.
Steal Spell: The Proteus must possess the Sneak Attack ability to learn this. It functions as the spellthief's ability, with the same progression in terms of maximum spell level stolen. He does not gain variations of this ability however, such as Steal Energy Resistance.
Rage: The Proteus can rage as a barbarian once per day. He gains an additional use of this ability at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level. He does not gain Greater Rage or any further advancements to this ability. A Proteus with this ability must be of Chaotic alignment.
Ki Frenzy: The Proteus can use a ki frenzy, as a sohei (OA) once per day. He gains an additional use of this ability at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16, and 20th level. A Proteus with this ability must be of Lawful alignment.
Bardic Music: The Proteus can use Bardic Music as a bard of his class level.
Turn or Rebuke Undead: This ability can only be used by a Proteus with the Spellcasting Path and spells drawn from the Cleric spell list. He can turn or rebuke undead as a cleric of his class level -1 (minimum 1).
Animal Companion: This ability can only be selected at 4th level or after. The Proteus gains an animal companion as a druid of his class level -3.
Familiar: This ability can only be selected by a Proteus with the Spellcasting Path who draws his spells from the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list. He gains a familiar as a wizard of his class levels.
Hexblade's Curse: The Proteus can use the Hexblade's Curse ability as a hexblade of his class levels. He does not gain the Greater or Dire Hexblade's Curse abilities.
Totem Chakra: This ability can only be selected by a Proteus with the Incarnum Path. He gains access to the Totem chakra.
Bonus Feat: The Proteus can select any feat he meets the prerequisites for as a bonus feat at 5th, 12th, and 17th level.
Bardic Knowledge: At 8th level the Proteus knows enough in general that he gains the Bardic Knowledge ability (as a Bard).
Evasion: At 9th level a Proteus gains Evasion as a Rogue.
Path Ability: At 10th level, the Proteus can select a Path Ability, which is a minor benefit most users of the Path get that the Proteus did not have access to until this point. He must select an ability for a Path he has access to. He gains 1 Path Ability at 10th level, and another at 18th level.
Martial Maneuvers: The Proteus can use Furious Counterstrike, as a Crusader.
Spellcasting (Sorcerer/Wizard): The Proteus gains a familiar, as a wizard of his class level -5. If he already had a familiar via multiclassing or the Obtain Familiar feat, he instead gains Improved Familiar. If he already has this, then he can select a bonus feat as a wizard would.
Spellcasting (Cleric): The Proteus gains access to one domain of his choice, and the ability of that domain. He does not gain bonus spells for that domain.
Binding: Can use Pact Augmentation, as a Binder, although he can only select one benefit. The Proteus can forego his second Path Ability at 18th level to gain a second benefit.
Shadowcasting: Gains Sustaining Shadow as a 5th level Shadowcaster. At 18th level he can forego his second Path Ability to use Sustaining Shadow as a 10th level Shadowcaster instead.
Incarnum: Gains Essentia Capacity +1, as an incarnate. He can forego his 18th level Path Ability for Essentia Capacity +2.
Psionics: The Proteus gains access to the Powers in one discipline of his choice.
Dark Knowledge: The Proteus gains Dark Knowledge as an Archivist of his class level, but he has 2 less uses of the ability per day at all levels (starts with 1/day, 2/day at 3rd level, 3/day at 6th level, 4/day at 9th level, and so on every 3 levels thereafter).
Improved Evasion: At 15th level the Proteus gains Improved Evasion as a Rogue.
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Re: Jack-of-all Trades class (3.5) PEACH (based on factotum)
Reserved for Bonus Feats, Errata, and Possibly a Race :smallwink:
Feats:
Broad Knowledge
Prerequisites: Proteus Level 1 or higher.
Benefits: Select 2 knowledge skills. You can advance your ranks in them simultaneously, without spending separate skill points. For example a Proteus who advances to level 2 with an intelligence of 15 and this feat for Knowledge (religion) and Knowledge (arcana) (he has 4 ranks in both skills) could spend a single skill point and increase his rank in both Knowledge (religion) and Knowledge (arcana) by 1 point (so his new skill rank would be 5 in both skills).
Note: This feat is designed to make Dark Knowledge a more practical power for a proteus. It occurred to me that no Proteus would want to purchase more then one or two knowledge skills, and the Dark Knowledge ability is best utilized with at least 3.
Errata and Miscellaneous Items
Spellshaping: This is an alternative Path for DMs using the Spellshaping Codexes. A Proteus who selects this Path cannot select the Spellcasting Path. He learns Formulae as a Spellshape Champion of his class levels, but he can only select powers from 4 Circles (chosen when this Path is selected).
Necromantic Proteus:Instead of the Sorcerer/Wizard list, a Proteus with the Arcane Casting spell Path can select spells from the Death Master (Dragon Magazine Compendium) spell list.
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Re: Jack-of-all Trades class (3.5) PEACH (based on factotum)
Partially reserving this so that I can put in a PrC and some new equipment.
Also, no one has posted yet ... :smalleek: so why not?
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Re: Jack-of-all Trades class (3.5) PEACH (based on factotum)
It's probably not as bad as you think, given action economy limits. My biggest concern is that some paths aren't equal-- you get most things at somewhere between half and two-thirds of the normal class rate, but maneuvers and incarnum are as normal for a class of that type, which is probably too much (especially the maneuvers; I'm less familiar with incarnum).
On a similar note, Wild Shape is much better than the other paths, especially as it functions as a druid's of your level (presumably), which means it lasts more-or-less all day. I'd suggest limiting the duration to 1 minute per level, or else making it a major path. Bardic Music as a bard of your level is also quite good for a minor path-- I'd suggest 1/2 or 2/3 your level. Familiar, on the other hand, is literally granting you a bonus feat (Obtain Familiar).
Other quick notes? Trapfinding pretty much always goes at level 1, and rightfully so. It would be nice to show progressions for some of the more unconventional classes (ex, invocations known as a dragon shaman). It's not clear what list the psionic path manifests from-- if it's from the psionic warrior list, it's likely too strong a path.
Otherwise, not a bad class. I feel like I've seen this type of thing before, but it's quite solid and well done. It's a pretty strong T3 right now, maybe T2, but probably not-- the nastiest thing I can think of to do with it (off the top of my head, at least) would be wildshaped maneuvers with Divine Metamagic'd buffs, but I've suggested how to fix the first two, and the latter is a completely independent problem.
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Re: Jack-of-all Trades class (3.5) PEACH (based on factotum)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Grod_The_Giant
It's probably not as bad as you think, given action economy limits. My biggest concern is that some paths aren't equal-- you get most things at somewhere between half and two-thirds of the normal class rate, but maneuvers and incarnum are as normal for a class of that type, which is probably too much (especially the maneuvers; I'm less familiar with incarnum).
On a similar note, Wild Shape is much better than the other paths, especially as it functions as a druid's of your level (presumably), which means it lasts more-or-less all day. I'd suggest limiting the duration to 1 minute per level, or else making it a major path. Bardic Music as a bard of your level is also quite good for a minor path-- I'd suggest 1/2 or 2/3 your level. Familiar, on the other hand, is literally granting you a bonus feat (Obtain Familiar).
Other quick notes? Trapfinding pretty much always goes at level 1, and rightfully so. It would be nice to show progressions for some of the more unconventional classes (ex, invocations known as a dragon shaman). It's not clear what list the psionic path manifests from-- if it's from the psionic warrior list, it's likely too strong a path.
Otherwise, not a bad class. I feel like I've seen this type of thing before, but it's quite solid and well done. It's a pretty strong T3 right now, maybe T2, but probably not-- the nastiest thing I can think of to do with it (off the top of my head, at least) would be wildshaped maneuvers with Divine Metamagic'd buffs, but I've suggested how to fix the first two, and the latter is a completely independent problem.
First off, thanks both for the compliments and the PEACHing. My goal here is a super flexible, mid Tier 3 class (Tier 3 is pretty much ideal, in my opinion). I need to think on wildshape, and take the familiar thing off of the list since I forgot Obtain Familiar was a feat and the Proteus has plenty of bonus feats anyways.
For the psionic path, I'm changing it to the Lurk powers known which is the weakest list and is very utilitarian (not a whole lot of blasting potential). The Soulborn has very limited meldshaping capacities, so I really don't think that's unbalanced. The Crusader is pretty bad though, although it is limited to a few schools of battle I still think I'll cut down on that a bit.
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Re: Jack-of-all Trades class (3.5) PEACH (based on factotum)
I'm sort of disappointing with the shadowcasting. Shadowcasting is already weak enough (to make it functional you have to force the shadowcaster into a gish or roguish role as it is). Please give it the adept spells per day.
I don't know much about incarnem, but isn't full class levels alot? And I assume with martial maneuvers he doesn't actually get an initiator level (well beyond the normal 1/2 levels for a non-initiator anyways)?
I worry about additional paths beyond the first two. It's nothing too powerful but an insane amount of utility. Why not make them at a reduced level (such as the path gained at level 6 treats your level as being 5 lower for the purpose of stuff gained)?
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Re: Jack-of-all Trades class (3.5) PEACH (based on factotum)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eftexar
I'm sort of disappointing with the shadowcasting. Shadowcasting is already weak enough (to make it functional you have to force the shadowcaster into a gish or roguish role as it is). Please give it the adept spells per day.
I don't know much about incarnem, but isn't full class levels alot? And I assume with martial maneuvers he doesn't actually get an initiator level (well beyond the normal 1/2 levels for a non-initiator anyways)?
I worry about additional paths beyond the first two. It's nothing too powerful but an insane amount of utility. Why not make them at a reduced level (such as the path gained at level 6 treats your level as being 5 lower for the purpose of stuff gained)?
The soulborn is extremely low on meldshaping...it has only 5 soulmelds known at 20th level and 3 chakra binds, which is not much. Honestly don't think it's broken.
I agree that I overdid the NERFING on the shadowcasting. I'll fix that.
I really like the idea for the -5 for the purposes of stuff gained. Also going to use that.
Thanks for the advice! :smallsmile:
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Re: Jack-of-all Trades class (3.5) PLEASEPLEASE PEACH!
Why do you say a Proteus cannot learn arcane or divine magic, then right after give them the ability to? :smallconfused:
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Re: Jack-of-all Trades class (3.5) PLEASEPLEASE PEACH!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Morph Bark
Why do you say a Proteus cannot learn arcane or divine magic, then right after give them the ability to? :smallconfused:
And, not or.
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Re: Jack-of-all Trades class (3.5) PLEASEPLEASE PEACH!
If the purpose is to never have the Proteus be able to use both Arcane and Divine Magic Paths, it should just say "A Proteus who chooses either the Arcane or Divine Magic Path cannot choose the other one at any point in his career."
As it is now, he can never choose either of them, and possibly cannot learn arcane and divine magic from other classes either.
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Re: Jack-of-all Trades class (3.5) PLEASEPLEASE PEACH!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Morph Bark
Why do you say a Proteus cannot learn arcane or divine magic, then right after give them the ability to? :smallconfused:
It's meant to be that he can't learn Arcane and Divine magic, to prevent a Proteus that can blast like a wizard and heal like a cleric. No Proteus can possess both Paths, but he can select either one of them. The wording is bad though. I'll fix it.
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Re: The Proteus (factotumish base class) (3.5) PLEASEPLEASE PEACH!
It's not really necessary (though I think it would fit the classes theme better), but why not grant a small number of skills to start and then give the proteus certain skills based on what paths and minor powers are chosen (obviously the bulk of the skills being granted by paths)?
Beyond that the bonus feats might be too much. 6 bonus feats alongside what amounts to three classes of half-casting and 6 half progressions of minor class features is a little much. I would say to either completely eliminate the bonus feats or cut the number of minor powers in half.
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Re: Jack-of-all Trades class (3.5) PLEASEPLEASE PEACH!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vilpich
It's meant to be that he can't learn Arcane and Divine magic, to prevent a Proteus that can blast like a wizard and heal like a cleric. No Proteus can possess both Paths, but he can select either one of them. The wording is bad though. I'll fix it.
To be honest, I doubt it would be a problem if he could. The Mystic Theurge PrC isn't considered "worth it" because you lose 3 caster levels from each class getting in. Since you're already limiting things to 5th level spells, and a very slow progression...
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Re: The Proteus (factotumish base class) (3.5) PLEASEPLEASE PEACH!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eftexar
It's not really necessary (though I think it would fit the classes theme better), but why not grant a small number of skills to start and then give the proteus certain skills based on what paths and minor powers are chosen (obviously the bulk of the skills being granted by paths)?
Beyond that the bonus feats might be too much. 6 bonus feats alongside what amounts to three classes of half-casting and 6 half progressions of minor class features is a little much. I would say to either completely eliminate the bonus feats or cut the number of minor powers in half.
The bonus feats are basically placeholders. I like having 6 minor powers, but I'm going to replace at least 2, if not 3, of the bonus feats with specific class abilities that fit the Proteus. I like the idea for the skills, and I think I'll do that.
EDIT: Cut bonus feats down to 3, gave him 4 skill tricks.
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Re: Jack-of-all Trades class (3.5) PLEASEPLEASE PEACH!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Grod_The_Giant
To be honest, I doubt it would be a problem if he could. The Mystic Theurge PrC isn't considered "worth it" because you lose 3 caster levels from each class getting in. Since you're already limiting things to 5th level spells, and a very slow progression...
I also want to encourage people to branch out more and create a more versatile Proteus. It's not just a question of balance.
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Re: The Proteus (factotumish base class) (3.5) PLEASEPLEASE PEACH!
There are other ways to meet your goal of making a Proteus unable to have both arcane and divine magic without putting in what seems like an arbitrary and kind of awkward restriction. You already have in the divine magic ability the choice between druid and cleric casting, why not have something like:
Spellcasting: The proteus may prepare and cast spells as an adept of her class level. When this path is chosen, the Proteus must select the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list, the Druid spell list or the Cleric spell list from which to learn her spells. Once this choice is made, it cannot be changed. If the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list is selected, the Proteus may only learn and cast spells from three schools, which are chosen when this path is chosen.
Then just change the wording for the subsequent path abilities and minor powers.
Edit: That said, I really love this class and think you've done a great job at making it versatile but not too powerful.
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Re: The Proteus (factotumish base class) (3.5) PLEASEPLEASE PEACH!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FlamingKobold
There are other ways to meet your goal of making a Proteus unable to have both arcane and divine magic without putting in what seems like an arbitrary and kind of awkward restriction. You already have in the divine magic ability the choice between druid and cleric casting, why not have something like:
Spellcasting: The proteus may prepare and cast spells as an adept of her class level. When this path is chosen, the Proteus must select the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list, the Druid spell list or the Cleric spell list from which to learn her spells. Once this choice is made, it cannot be changed. If the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list is selected, the Proteus may only learn and cast spells from three schools, which are chosen when this path is chosen.
Then just change the wording for the subsequent path abilities and minor powers.
Edit: That said, I really love this class and think you've done a great job at making it versatile but not too powerful.
Thanks! I really like your wording for the spellcasting...copy and paste time! :smallbiggrin: Appreciate the help.
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Re: The Proteus (factotumish base class) (3.5) PLEASEPLEASE PEACH!
Quote:
Armored Casting: This ability can only be chosen at 7th level. The Proteus can cast arcane spells and use psionics in light armor as a warmage's Armored Casting. This ability does not progress to medium armor.
Armor doesn't effect psionics, iirc.
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Re: The Proteus (factotumish base class) (3.5) PLEASEPLEASE PEACH!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SheepInDisguise
Armor doesn't effect psionics, iirc.
Oops. I'll fix that. Thanks for pointing it out!
Also, would it be a good idea to drop the HD down to a d6 like the rogue?
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Re: The Proteus (factotumish base class) (3.5) PLEASEPLEASE PEACH!
Looks like a good 20 level class to me! I am super fond of the prestige class, so this is a great addition as a full 20 level class.
You might consider swapping those bonus feats for "Reserve Feats" -- feats that you can swap out once per day for any feat you meet the prerequisites for. Its a fun mechanic that adds another touch of versatility. That said, iots not needed -- this class can pretty much do anything, given time.
Good job, and excellent choice going for a balanced approach -- often, when this pops up, people try to give the class EVERYTHING without some kind of limit. This class is a more balanced approach -- like multi-classing without actually changing class.
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Re: The Proteus (factotumish base class) (3.5) PLEASEPLEASE PEACH!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wayfare
Looks like a good 20 level class to me! I am super fond of the prestige class, so this is a great addition as a full 20 level class.
You might consider swapping those bonus feats for "Reserve Feats" -- feats that you can swap out once per day for any feat you meet the prerequisites for. Its a fun mechanic that adds another touch of versatility. That said, iots not needed -- this class can pretty much do anything, given time.
Good job, and excellent choice going for a balanced approach -- often, when this pops up, people try to give the class EVERYTHING without some kind of limit. This class is a more balanced approach -- like multi-classing without actually changing class.
Glad you like the approach.
What supplement could I find reserve feats in? I know of a [Reserve] descriptor for spellcaster related feats in Complete Mage, but they work nothing like what you're describing.
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Re: The Proteus (factotumish base class) (3.5) PLEASEPLEASE PEACH!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vilpich
Glad you like the approach.
What supplement could I find reserve feats in? I know of a [Reserve] descriptor for spellcaster related feats in Complete Mage, but they work nothing like what you're describing.
Oh, its not a book idea -- I've seen it around the playground for a while, usually reserved for fighters. the basic idea is, you have Reserve feats that, once per day, you can swap out for any feat you meet the prereqs for. Think of it as a spell slot, but for feats.
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Re: The Proteus (factotumish base class) (3.5) PEACH! <--I'm actually begging now PLE
While I like this class as a matter of principle (I love how you crafted the paths and minor abilities), I can still see a couple of possible problems with the implementation.
For one thing, the level penalty to later paths looks a bit troublesome. While I can understand and empathize with you not wanting this class to wake up one morning and suddenly be awesome at a new form of magic, this doesn't seem like the right way to do it.
At 1st level, I could understand the initial benefits from your two paths being interesting and relevant. Getting the exact same benefit from one path 5 levels later hardly seems like a drop in the bucket for most of the paths and I honestly can't imagine wanting any of them at 19th level. Of particular concern is the incarnum soulmeld, which literally doesn't do anything until 3 levels after you first select it (soulborn first get soulmelds at level 4). Instead of forcing this class to painfully "grow into" a new set of abilities every few levels, I would recommend something similar to the Chameleon Prestige class. Maybe give this class a limited number of paths known and active paths.
The path abilities also baffle me a bit when I compare them to the minor powers. For one thing, the distinction seems pretty random as they both possess options that require specific paths. Also, even though you get path abilities later on and you only get two of them, they still seem far weaker than the so-called minor abilities (seriously, just about every single minor ability seems better than the path abilities with one or two exceptions). Hell, the minor ability giving you a familiar is better than the path ability doing the exact same thing.
Lastly, and this is just a matter of opinion, I would actually refrain from including actual "class features" like the evasion, trapfinding, and bardic knowledge. If you include non-chosen options in this class, you kind of end up directing what type of builds are more favorable. Both trapfinding and bardic knowledge benefit from high Intelligence (added to search, disable device, and bardic knowledge checks), for example, which encourages players to select other abilities using Intelligence. This isn't an overpowering force but it is something to keep in mind.
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Re: The Proteus (factotumish base class) (3.5) PEACH! <--I'm actually begging now PLE
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Originally Posted by
Realms of Chaos
While I like this class as a matter of principle (I love how you crafted the paths and minor abilities), I can still see a couple of possible problems with the implementation.
For one thing, the level penalty to later paths looks a bit troublesome. While I can understand and empathize with you not wanting this class to wake up one morning and suddenly be awesome at a new form of magic, this doesn't seem like the right way to do it.
At 1st level, I could understand the initial benefits from your two paths being interesting and relevant. Getting the exact same benefit from one path 5 levels later hardly seems like a drop in the bucket for most of the paths and I honestly can't imagine wanting any of them at 19th level. Of particular concern is the incarnum soulmeld, which literally doesn't do anything until 3 levels after you first select it (soulborn first get soulmelds at level 4). Instead of forcing this class to painfully "grow into" a new set of abilities every few levels, I would recommend something similar to the Chameleon Prestige class. Maybe give this class a limited number of paths known and active paths.
The path abilities also baffle me a bit when I compare them to the minor powers. For one thing, the distinction seems pretty random as they both possess options that require specific paths. Also, even though you get path abilities later on and you only get two of them, they still seem far weaker than the so-called minor abilities (seriously, just about every single minor ability seems better than the path abilities with one or two exceptions). Hell, the minor ability giving you a familiar is better than the path ability doing the exact same thing.
Lastly, and this is just a matter of opinion, I would actually refrain from including actual "class features" like the evasion, trapfinding, and bardic knowledge. If you include non-chosen options in this class, you kind of end up directing what type of builds are more favorable. Both trapfinding and bardic knowledge benefit from high Intelligence (added to search, disable device, and bardic knowledge checks), for example, which encourages players to select other abilities using Intelligence. This isn't an overpowering force but it is something to keep in mind.
For the evasion and bardic knowledge and such, I included them because they're very broad abilities "skilled" classes usually have, but they're not good enough to include as minor abilities. The "Path Abilities" are also along this line, and are meant to be weaker than the powers. No one will choose a familiar over auras, but they'll choose spellcasting and it's nice to be able to get a familiar at some point.
I'll consider changing some of the "written-in" abilities though. Thanks for the PEACH :smallsmile:
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Re: The Proteus (factotumish base class) (3.5) PEACH! <--I'm actually begging now PLE
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Originally Posted by
Vilpich
The "Path Abilities" are also along this line, and are meant to be weaker than the powers. No one will choose a familiar over auras, but they'll choose spellcasting and it's nice to be able to get a familiar at some point
What baffles me is the power dynamic in play here. Most people have more weaker abilities early on and fewer more powerful abilities later on. The entire dynamic of this class seems to be based around the exact opposite. Why are you giving someone a weaker ability at level 10 than level 2? Shouldn't you gain access to stronger abilities as you get stronger?
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Re: The Proteus (factotumish base class) (3.5) PEACH! <--I'm actually begging now PLE
Hey that seems like a really interesting class to play.
Just a couple of nitpicks first of all how many uses of bardic music does the protei/proteus gain? As a bard? If so why would you play a bard over a protei?
If I am getting everything correctly from the path descriptions
"Paths: The Proteus can select any "power source" from the game. At 1st level, he can use any two of those listed below, and at he gains an additional one at 6th, 13th, and 20th level. The Path gained at 6th level are treated as being a Proteus 5 levels lower, the Path gained at 13th level are treated as being a Proteus 12 levels lower, and the Path gained at 20th level is treated as being a Proteus 19 levels lower."
A Proteus capstone ability is as good (or worse) than taking a first level in another class, I am getting that right? I advocate in something on the lines of the Chameleon PrC you can know a certain number of paths but you can only use a more limited number at the same time.
Skill wise you can do something similar to the bardic knack ACF (PHB II) or/plus Jack of all trades (CA). Or make the paths give bonuses to skills.
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Re: The Proteus (factotumish base class) (3.5) PEACH! <--I'm actually begging now PLE
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aeryr
Hey that seems like a really interesting class to play.
Just a couple of nitpicks first of all how many uses of bardic music does the protei/proteus gain? As a bard? If so why would you play a bard over a protei?
If I am getting everything correctly from the path descriptions
"Paths: The Proteus can select any "power source" from the game. At 1st level, he can use any two of those listed below, and at he gains an additional one at 6th, 13th, and 20th level. The Path gained at 6th level are treated as being a Proteus 5 levels lower, the Path gained at 13th level are treated as being a Proteus 12 levels lower, and the Path gained at 20th level is treated as being a Proteus 19 levels lower."
A Proteus capstone ability is as good (or worse) than taking a first level in another class, I am getting that right? I advocate in something on the lines of the Chameleon PrC you can know a certain number of paths but you can only use a more limited number at the same time.
Skill wise you can do something similar to the bardic knack ACF (PHB II) or/plus Jack of all trades (CA). Or make the paths give bonuses to skills.
Alright, what seems like would be the best idea is to make the penalties for newly learned Paths less harsh.
I want to avoid something where he can't use all of his abilities together, since this is pretty unrealistic.
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Re: The Proteus (factotumish base class) (3.5) PEACH! <--I'm actually begging now PLE
Made my first edit in ages: changed the incarnum Path and added in chakras as minor abilities.
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Re: The Proteus (factotumish base class) (3.5) PEACH! <--I'm actually begging now PLE
I don't know many of those paths, but... I might look at this at some point since you seem to be all in a lather despite getting more feedback than a lot of my stuff has.
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Re: The Proteus (factotumish base class) (3.5) PEACH please
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The Proteus' damage progresses as a spellthief's.
Give a table for this thing, rather than referring to another class's table for an ability that has an example of itself in the SRD.
Seems like a bit of a weak start at 1st level, unless you take cheesy advantage of having all skills with stuff like iajatsu, UMD, UPD, and etc (none bad by themselves, but having all of them on one character can be a bit much from what I hear).
Martial Maneuvers needs a recovery method. Picking any combination of three discpilines MIGHT get into cheese especially once you get into homebrew but with the number they can learn, and more-over the number they can prepare, I can't actually see it being a problem... maybe if it allows bypassing special requirements of some disciplines.
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Armored Casting: This ability can only be chosen at 7th level.
No earlier I can understand, but you probably should re-phrase this to allow it to be taken at LATER levels. Ditto for anything similar.
Really kept from critiquing very well by my lack of familiarity with all the different sub-systems in this class.
