The first fictional universe?

I just had a discussion about how Tolkien was the first one to bring a completely fictional universe into popular culture, and how Middle-Earth is actually supposed to be the mythic past of the real world.

And that had me thinking who actually created the first fantasy setting in which Earth does not exist, never existed, and never will exist?

It's not Conan by Howard.
It's not Hyperborea by Smith.
It's not Elric by Moorcock.
It's not Shannnara by Brooks.
It's not Star Wars by Lucas.
It's not Wheel of Time by Jordan.
All AD&D settings are in the same multiverse, and Forgotten Realms had actual Egyptians and Tyr travel there through portals from Earth.

The oldest setting of which I am reasonably certain that it does not share any connection to Earth is The Elder Scrolls from 1994. Anyone know an example that goes further back than that?

I doubt it was the first first, but Lord Dunsany had a fictional fantasy universe dating back to 1905 -- called Pegana. Unlike most previous works, it had no portal fantasy elements or some kind of fantastical reinterpretation of Earth History which makes it something of an anomaly at the time.

As a universe it's somewhere between ancient Greece but with a fully original pantheon and stories attached to them that more mirror the horror style which would be later associated with HP Lovecraft, who drew inspiration from it.

There's also The Worm Ouroboros by Eddison, which is pretty much heroic high fantasy as the genre is understood today - although the setting is technically Mercury for some reason, and is a fantastical revision of Earth in truth - dates back to about a decade before Howard appeared.

Maybe The Well at the World's End from 1896 by William Morris. but it must have been 30 years since I read it, and I could be mistaken. Medievalish setting, but no connection to real places as far as I remember. Other than that, I agree about Dunsany's Pegana stories.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DavidSh

Maybe The Well at the World's End from 1896 by William Morris. but it must have been 30 years since I read it, and I could be mistaken. Medievalish setting, but no connection to real places as far as I remember. Other than that, I agree about Dunsany's Pegana stories.

---

You beat me to it! TVTropes' "Constructed World" trope mentions William Morris as the "creator of the modern 'invented world' fantasy", and it inspired both Tolkien and C.S. Lewis. The Wood Beyond the World is 1894, so it precedes Well by good two years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yora

The oldest setting of which I am reasonably certain that it does not share any connection to Earth is The Elder Scrolls from 1994. Anyone know an example that goes further back than that?

---

What about Hyrule?

There are some arguments to suggest that Earth exists in The Elder Scrolls and that those who achieve CHIM become aware they are characters in a video game. So Earth does exist, simply in a way that has almost zero bearing on the story. Though I always forget if those ramblings made it into the game or if that's unofficial Kirkbride musings.

Depending on how you define 'universe', consider stuff like Dr. Seuss. Small, self-contained stories may be your best bet for finding a story that doesn't relate to Earth.

I'm not sure that for the purposes of establishing a completely invented setting, there's a meaningful difference between a setting in which Earth does not exist (like the Elder Scrolls, apparently), and a setting in which Earth does exist somewhere but is never mentioned, visited or involved in the story in any meaningful way (like Star Wars). Both of them are still entirely original creations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aedilred

I'm not sure that for the purposes of establishing a completely invented setting, there's a meaningful difference between a setting in which Earth does not exist (like the Elder Scrolls, apparently), and a setting in which Earth does exist somewhere but is never mentioned, visited or involved in the story in any meaningful way (like Star Wars). Both of them are still entirely original creations.

---

Yeah, I agree with this. Especially since with some works, such as Glen Cook's Black Company or Garrett, PI stories it's not really even made clear if the setting is a past or future Earth, or a completely different place (unless I missed/ have forgotten something).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aedilred

I'm not sure that for the purposes of establishing a completely invented setting, there's a meaningful difference between a setting in which Earth does not exist (like the Elder Scrolls, apparently), and a setting in which Earth does exist somewhere but is never mentioned, visited or involved in the story in any meaningful way (like Star Wars). Both of them are still entirely original creations.

---

Especially when you've got the inventiveness of flat world (which might be an actual contender, you have the sphere which may be from our world and the person being written to) or Lucian's "True Stories"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dps

Yeah, I agree with this. Especially since with some works, such as Glen Cook's Black Company or Garrett, PI stories it's not really even made clear if the setting is a past or future Earth, or a completely different place (unless I missed/ have forgotten something).

---

I have seen the film,maybe that's what ang lee meant,of course I don't know.