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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Yeah, old man Genocide were apperently over 1000 years old, so a 1 to 5 rate isnt enough on its own to explain him.
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Your age progresses at a rate relative to your spiritual strength.
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Honest question, didn't the Yamamoto claim that no shinigami has been born stronger than him? If thats the case then are the 0th squad still weaker than him or was he not counting them?
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silva Stormrage
Honest question, didn't the Yamamoto claim that no shinigami has been born stronger than him? If thats the case then are the 0th squad still weaker than him or was he not counting them?
He was exaggerating?
The Zero Squad members are individually weaker, but with their powers combined, they are twice as powerful?
He really was not counting them?
He meant that literally: he was the strongest shinigami baby ever?
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
It's a pretty common thing in Shonen manga for characters to exaggerate about their power level. I think we've got another case of that on both fronts. Afterall, Aizen was supposedly born at his maximum potential and according to the battle statistics given in one of the graphic novels the old man and Aizen are equal.
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dscherro
He was exaggerating?
The Zero Squad members are individually weaker, but with their powers combined, they are twice as powerful?
He really was not counting them?
He meant that literally: he was the strongest shinigami baby ever?
I like the last interpretation :smalltongue:
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silva Stormrage
Honest question, didn't the Yamamoto claim that no shinigami has been born stronger than him? If thats the case then are the 0th squad still weaker than him or was he not counting them?
Only thing I can think of, that hasn't been mentioned yet, is that maybe the Zeroth Division weren't born Shinigami. Maybe they're all like Ichigo, humans who have recieved Shinigami powers.
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
Only thing I can think of, that hasn't been mentioned yet, is that maybe the Zeroth Division weren't born Shinigami. Maybe they're all like Ichigo, humans who have recieved Shinigami powers.
Or alternately, there is a special power called "Blessing of the Spirit King" or some such, and thus the Zeroth Division are stronger than Yamamoto now, but weren't before and are not naturally (I mean, the Vizard are stronger than shinigami can be, too, although I don't think any of them ever hit that theoretical potential). Yamamoto was never promoted because he was needed where he was.
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Friv
Or alternately, there is a special power called "Blessing of the Spirit King" or some such, and thus the Zeroth Division are stronger than Yamamoto now, but weren't before and are not naturally (I mean, the Vizard are stronger than shinigami can be, too, although I don't think any of them ever hit that theoretical potential). Yamamoto was never promoted because he was needed where he was.
That actually make's a lot of sense.
Also, the way I phrased this chapter to a friend was "Deus En Machina. They're taking everyone we care about to God so he can fix them"
He's still laughing, a few days after the fact. I really must ask if this is or isn't an ass pull, I'm not sure.
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Friv
I have to admit that the superpower of "self-insert fanfiction" is one of the best things ever. :)
Well, mileage can certainly vary, but I don't think that Ichigo is actually well-rounded - anymore.
I want to stress that I do not believe that Ichigo started Bleach as a Mary Sue. At creation, he was a spiritually and emotionally myopic hothead. Hell, the entire series only exists because of his flaws. If he'd just sat back and accepted that maybe this crazy-powerful magical binding wasn't something he should be breaking, Rukia could have killed the Hollow instead of getting brutally wounded saving him, and he wouldn't have had to take her power, and then she wouldn't have been arrested etc etc.
The first season's arcs are all based around the flaws of Ichigo and his friends. Ichigo's thoughtlessness results in Rukia having to teach him to hunt ghosts, and his reluctance causes trouble all over the place. Chad and Orihime's respective refusal to discuss their problems nearly gets each of them killed. Ishida's hatred nearly gets everyone killed when he unleashes problems he can't fix, and in the process his total lack of attention to his friends nearly gets them killed when he fails to realize that they could be in danger.
The second arc is about consequences, too - Ichigo goes after Rukia because of his own guilt and sense of responsibility for what happened to her, and guilt and loss are at the root of why everyone in Soul Society is behaving like a twit. Renji is guilty for abandoning Rukia, Byakuya is guilty for breaking the laws for his wife, Tousen is angry at the death of his captain, Hinamori flips out over Aizen and Toshiro flips out over Hinamori, Soi Fon is destroyed because she was abandoned... and so on. Ichigo almost gets himself and Yoruichi killed because he tries to fight Byakuya without his bankai, Ishida destroys his own powers to get revenge, Kenpachi changes sides when he finally finds a worthy opponent, and Aizen is obsessed with perfecting himself and overcoming his perceived flaws.
The problem is that Ichigo overcomes those flaws in the third arc. He makes peace with his anger, he accepts his limits, and he sacrifices his power not to destroy the big bad, but to let someone else do it. He's accepted his limits and is ready to fade away.
And then he doesn't.
Ichigo's myopia is gone. His anger is focused and only actually comes out when it's reasonable and correct for it to. But nothing has replaced the loss of those character traits. Kubo completed his story, and then decided to tell two more chapters of it, and the result is that there's nothing to fill the gap, no emotional resonance or character dilemmas. Ichigo's decisions are reduced to "can I fight even harder", and the answer is always "not at first, but then later yes".
Questions about Marty Stu-ness aside (it really is a nebulous concept, I think. There's a lot of different interpretations, and its often used as shorthand for characters who are too good/badassed/powerful, which is not the original usage), this right here is, perfectly stated, and articulated better than I have myself, why I was sad and mad when the series continued past Aizen. The story was done, and he still kept going >.<
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
That actually make's a lot of sense.
Also, the way I phrased this chapter to a friend was "Deus En Machina. They're taking everyone we care about to God so he can fix them"
He's still laughing, a few days after the fact. I really must ask if this is or isn't an ass pull, I'm not sure.
You ask that as if we haven't had one ass pull after another since... well, the start of the manga.
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
Only thing I can think of, that hasn't been mentioned yet, is that maybe the Zeroth Division weren't born Shinigami. Maybe they're all like Ichigo, humans who have recieved Shinigami powers.
Or they were humans who died and got into Soul Society that way, rather than being born into Soul Society.
I presume that it is possible to gain Shinigami powers that way anyway.
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Quote:
Honest question, didn't the Yamamoto claim that no shinigami has been born stronger than him? If thats the case then are the 0th squad still weaker than him or was he not counting them?
Each member of 0 seems to be former Captains who have been promoted, so i do think he was counting them.
But just because old man Genocide might have been able to take any 1 member of 0 in a 1 vs 1 fight, and most of them in a 1 vs 2, then it doesnt mean he could have defeated them in a 1 vs 5.
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
I have to agree with the sentiment that most of the Zeroth squad are former Thirteen Guard captains especially in how they reacted to the surviving captains (Unohana, Shinji, and Mayuri in particular). But the biggest thing about them is that their techiniques are superior to the Gotei. I mean some of the reason their taking Ichigo with them is has to be that they can fix Tensa Zangetsu where Mayuri can not.:smallwink:
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Silva Stormrage
Honest question, didn't the Yamamoto claim that no shinigami has been born stronger than him? If thats the case then are the 0th squad still weaker than him or was he not counting them?
Who says they're all weaker than him? Kyoraku is at least 2000 years old, remember, and Unohana is too - which would make the guy who taught her about medical Kido at least several centuries older than her. In fact, the only member of the Royal Guard that might not be over a thousand years old is Hikifune (having been promoted only a little over a century ago). At least two of them are well over a thousand years old, however, even if I do doubt if either of them is anywhere near as powerful as Yama-jii was.
While it's true they appear younger than they should, one must remember that Juha Bach is human and he's at least a thousand years old himself. Plus we can't ignore that Hikifune evidently looks completely different to how she originally did - for all we know, being a member of the Royal Guard confers certain benefits that happen to make you age even slower than usual just like Bach presumably uses the Schatten Bereich to do the same.
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
You know, one thing I DID like about this chapter, after some reflection. For the first time, someone actually told the 13 Divisions how much they suck.
"Hey, did you learn all my medical techniques?"
"Of course?"
"THEN WHY'S EVERYONE DEAD, HUH?"
In a way, it's...kind of parodying the series. Kind of.
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
You know, one thing I DID like about this chapter, after some reflection. For the first time, someone actually told the 13 Divisions how much they suck.
"Hey, did you learn all my medical techniques?"
"Of course?"
"THEN WHY'S EVERYONE DEAD, HUH?"
In a way, it's...kind of parodying the series. Kind of.
He wasn't asking why Everyone was dead he was asking why Anyone was. Which just makes an even bigger point.
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
You know, one thing I DID like about this chapter, after some reflection. For the first time, someone actually told the 13 Divisions how much they suck.
I don't know, nobody criticized anyone for attacking the Bankai stealing enemy with Bankai, not quite the smartest move. It sounds more like he's complaining that Gotei 13 was unable to stay ground against a vastly superior force, which the Quincy clearly were (if only because of Bach alone), and that's just unfair. I generally hate it, when people do that:
being douchey to someone, just because they lost a fight against an adversary he/she/it had no chance to defeat in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
"Hey, did you learn all my medical techniques?"
"Of course?"
"THEN WHY'S EVERYONE DEAD, HUH?"
Because the 4th was forbidden from leaving their place. Yamamoto's orders were kind of stupid. There probably would be fewer deaths, if at least some of the medical personnel had been outside.
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dscherro
Because the 4th was forbidden from leaving their place. Yamamoto's orders were kind of stupid. There probably would be fewer deaths, if at least some of the medical personnel had been outside.
Or the Quincies would have killed all the medical staff and they'd be ever more SOL than they are now.
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dscherro
I don't know, nobody criticized anyone for attacking the Bankai stealing enemy with Bankai, not quite the smartest move. It sounds more like he's complaining that Gotei 13 was unable to stay ground against a vastly superior force, which the Quincy clearly were (if only because of Bach alone), and that's just unfair. I generally hate it, when people do that:
being douchey to someone, just because they lost a fight against an adversary he/she/it had no chance to defeat in the first place.
Because the 4th was forbidden from leaving their place. Yamamoto's orders were kind of stupid. There probably would be fewer deaths, if at least some of the medical personnel had been outside.
Even if there was a reason, it was a stupid reason. Sure, the Quincies MAY of attacked the Medics, but if Unohana is so damned super powerful, they probably would of been able to protect themselves. And with the focus put on attacking THEM, they'd be left open for the other guys to fight them.
Either way, it's kinda hilarious in retrospect, the guy calling her out on failing to save people. Because it just...seem's completely out of left field and not how Kubo would write at all.
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Believe it or not, I actually think Kubo might have a good reason behind Unohana's (in)actions. Her power has been the subject of speculation for sometime, and it may have been that Yamamoto didn't want the enemies to take her Bankai. Maybe her Bankai could actually be useful in undoing some of the damage, or maybe it's something else altogether.
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Her bankai can resurrect the dead, calling it now.
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Turalisj
Her bankai can resurrect the dead, calling it now.
Would explain, in a way, why Pompador is all "Why are people still dead if you're so skilled!" rant. If she can ressurect people, why is ANYONE important dead?
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Well, everyone knows that plotdeath is an affliction no one can recover from. Except for plot demanded resurrection. other means of resurrection won't ever work.
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Turalisj
Her bankai can resurrect the dead, calling it now.
Orihime can ressurect the dead, where is Orihime? I know, that was already brought up here, but this is something the shinigami really should be called out for. Even if she wouldn't be able to restore a Bankai, she still would be of immense use. But noooo...
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
Would explain, in a way, why Pompador is all "Why are people still dead if you're so skilled!" rant. If she can ressurect people, why is ANYONE important dead?
It would have to be limited to resurrection and not super-healing someone, otherwise Byakuya wouldn't need to come along with the Zero Division to get cured (he'd still need to come along for other reasons, of course).
If it is super-healing though, she better get going. Kenpachi is still out there in a bed.
...and that addicentally made me think UnohanaxKenpachi.
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Morph Bark
...and that addicentally made me think UnohanaxKenpachi.
You! You! You evil, Evil person!
*stomps off ranting*
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Morph Bark
...and that addicentally made me think UnohanaxKenpachi.
Hahahaha! Yes! Yes, that is just...yes. We should all write a letter to Kubo and ask him to make this official. Good work, Morph.
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
something I actually liked about this chapter was that it actually addressed the "why the hell didn't they show up during the invasion!" issue. may have been a crappy answer (or may not have) but it at least shows that it wasn't just something that Kubo didn't think about.
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Re: Bleach VI: We Want Our Baby Bach Ribs (Aizen pull)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Susano-wo
something I actually liked about this chapter was that it actually addressed the "why the hell didn't they show up during the invasion!" issue. may have been a crappy answer (or may not have) but it at least shows that it wasn't just something that Kubo didn't think about.
That's a good answer, I think. That's simply how military works.