General Exalted Discussion Thread XI: Great Job, You Broke the Scale.

I know it's not really how Exalted works, but do you guys remember playing RPGs where your character didn't have every option and power in the world available to him? That there were some things you just weren't going to be able to do?

I remember that feeling in Skyrim. Then I leveled up.

To be fair, you can't bring back the dead.
There are mistakes that can't be undone, and might never be completely fixed.
You might be near the top of the pantheon (not even a heap!) - but if there are so many more heroes beneath you, it only makes the few left above more astounding.

You can do anything you devote your divine powers to - assuming you are willing to pay the prices. And then afterwards, how to tell if it was right? Even the objective Virtues aren't always objectively (or subjectively) Good.

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Originally Posted by Rhyvurg

I know it's not really how Exalted works, but do you guys remember playing RPGs where your character didn't have every option and power in the world available to him? That there were some things you just weren't going to be able to do?

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To quote another, higher-powered RPG:

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Originally Posted by Nobilis

"There are some things which you cannot do. There are some limits on even a Noble's actions. Never learn these limits. Never accept them. You are a Lord or Lady of this earth."

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There are limits. It's your duty to go beyond them, to quest for the impossible- even if you end in a crumpled, burning heap, you reached beyond. And it was glorious.

I just have a That Guy in my usual gaming group, who wants dozens of powers and abilities from the start. And always the same powers, regardless of the system. He always plays the same character. And complains if he can't have these abilities at character creation. I can't even count how many games were delayed because he had to rebuild his character yet again because he hated the idea of waiting for XP.

On one hand, yes, you should always know your limits, so that you can then break them.

On the other, you still need some limits: otherwise, it's like the childhood one upsmanship games.


Edit: also, wow. Posted a homebrew charm on another board, and one of the posters called in underpowered because it doesn't match wyld revocation's power. Wyld Revocation, if you don't know, is a Manse power that's essentially "anything goes". And he's using that as a balance point. :smallconfused:

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Originally Posted by Jade Dragon

I like Infernals.

Especially when I can use homebrew Heretical Charms to remove most of the thematic restrictions.

...

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Infernals with no thematic restrictions. So basically you want to play a Solar? :smallconfused:

I still want canon Metagaos charms. Because he seems like he'd be one of my favorite yozis.

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Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard

Infernals with no thematic restrictions. So basically you want to play a Solar? :smallconfused:

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Solars do have Thematic Restrictions.

Also, the unrestricteness of Devil Tigers is a bit over sold: any individual Devil Tiger is going to have limits and restrictions.

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Originally Posted by golentan

I still want canon Metagaos charms. Because he seems like he'd be one of my favorite yozis.

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Unfortunately that seems likely to happen far sooner than Colossal and Municipal charms...:smallfurious:

Emergency Chandelier

The Fair Folk are heroic swashbucklers, wandering through Creation performing good deeds, rescuing ladies in need and flouting the corrupt authorities at every turn. Such wonderous feats of derring-do demand a proper scene, and thus the Raksha have developed a quite complex and intricate code as to priority and sharing rules for chandeliers. Thus, one who is rescuing a princess gets to swing before one who is fighting off a batch of ducal guards, while a Fair Folk introducing herself to a band of hearty rebels must share the chandelier with another who is reporting a successful assassination to a cardinal.

Knowing the importance of such matters, Creation is fairly generous in chandeliers, the unnatural process of Fate arringing for them to be present in most places where heroes require them. Still, it does not compare to the Wyld and so there are places in Creation which are explicitly void of chandeliers.

Such a terrible threat to hearty adventure and heroics cannot be borne, and thus all the better class of Raksha make sure that their mortal sidekicks carry an Emergency Chandelier, ensuring that such can be obtained no matter what.

1-dot Oneiromancy
Assumption of the Person's Heart - the Emergency Chandelier implants itself within the heart of a mortal side-kick.
Ordinary Object Conjuration - when called upon, the Emergency Chandelier manifests a beautiful, crystaline chandelier. This object is affixed nearby, and has a rope which is as solid as the power of plot.
Elegant Muse Attitude - the Emergency Chandelier is explicitly designed to make acrobatics much easier.
Subversion and Transformation Artifice - while swinging on an Emergency Chandelier, a special whistle will transmute the nearest animal at the other end into a loyal and noble white horse, to facilitate epic departures. Some Raksha add wings and gills to their horses, just in case.


And welcome, of course. Actually collecting all the random things I've made would be a lot of work, so I haven't really tried.

Oh god.

That's actually something I could see one of my characters explicitly trying to get. XD

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Originally Posted by Rhyvurg

Unfortunately that seems likely to happen far sooner than Colossal and Municipal charms...:smallfurious:

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I have my suspicions for why such are slow in coming. I think it is because, unlike other Exalted, the Alchemical Exalted actually have mechanical repurcussions of their new size that need ironed out - like having a brand new formula for figuring their personal Essence pool or having to consider whether normal Champion Charms should be required as prerequisites by Colossus or Munincipal Charms. Every other Exalt gets off cheap on their Charms.

There's also the fact that Essence 6+ is decidedly not the normal play area, and so support for it is pushed back in favor of, say, getting Sidereals that work.

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Originally Posted by Kyeudo

I have my suspicions for why such are slow in coming. I think it is because, unlike other Exalted, the Alchemical Exalted actually have mechanical repurcussions of their new size that need ironed out - like having a brand new formula for figuring their personal Essence pool or having to consider whether normal Champion Charms should be required as prerequisites by Colossus or Munincipal Charms. Every other Exalt gets off cheap on their Charms.

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Nah. It's a priorities thing. Colossus/Municipal Charms would be most useful for games that are A) set in or centered around Autochthonia, and B) at the high-end of the power scale. That's doubly niche, making up a very small proportion of the games being played out there–it'd be like writing up Essence 6-10 Fair Folk Charms, or a Mountain Folk Pattern that only works in Autocthonia, or a set of Mardukth Charms. Sure, it'd be cool and fun–but it'd only be benefitting a very small percentage of our player population. The material we're currently 100% focused on is going to be much more widely useful and appealing.

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Originally Posted by meschlum

Emergency Chandelier

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Yeah, I think I'll like this place.

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Originally Posted by Rikandur Azebol

What is Your favorite Raksha concept ?

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I would say the 1e one I played for two years (basically Sun Wukong with more lust and a genderflip), but I can also include:

• The Perfect Butler/Sidekick/Toadie (All of the World-Shaping Charms, and a bucketload of customs)
• Mildly-to-Moderately Oddball Craftsman (based on Gepetto, no less, which led to a Pinnochio-like behemoth named Dimenticato)
• The (literal) Manic Pixie Dream Girl/Guy (because normal courtships and problem-solving are DULL)

I tend to like Creation-minded types, although with interesting twists that makes it easier for them to entangle others into their antics without having to actively just social-bomb people. Sometimes, being infectiously interesting and exciting to be around is in and of itself a perfect social attack!

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Originally Posted by The Demented One

Essence 6-10 Fair Folk Charms,

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You know, there was a point a while back where I would have really appreciated having those. Of course I'm just one player, and it's only come up for me once, so I suppose it is still very niche. Still.

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Originally Posted by The Demented One

The material we're currently 100% focused on is going to be much more widely useful and appealing.

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You're giving Lunars a place in the setting?!? :eek:

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Originally Posted by Rhyvurg

I just have a That Guy in my usual gaming group, who wants dozens of powers and abilities from the start. And always the same powers, regardless of the system. He always plays the same character. And complains if he can't have these abilities at character creation. I can't even count how many games were delayed because he had to rebuild his character yet again because he hated the idea of waiting for XP.

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So it's not Exalted, it's the fact that he wants to start as a 500 year-old Solaroid with thirty Charms and twice the number of bonus poimts when everyone else is at chargen.

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Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard

Infernals with no thematic restrictions. So basically you want to play a Solar? :smallconfused:

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...What gave you that idea? Solars can't have the shapeshifting powers my Infernals do. Nor can they become primordials without that one crippling weakness (although I don't think they get that 1000 mote Essence pool either).

Although after I made that one homebrew Charm (which I'm probably going to change), I got Oadenol's Codex. Which has a 3-dot Hearthstone that lets me swap genders. And it would be a lot cheaper to pay three BP for that than seven BP for a Charm. Although I could lose it at some point...

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Originally Posted by TheCountAlucard

You're giving Lunars a place in the setting?!? :eek:

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I'd like to think so, but I doubt it.

Though, just found my favourite line in Shards:

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Originally Posted by Shards p.120

But Lunars are neither puppets nor slaves. Only self imposed bonds can hold them.

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The notion that the Solar Bond could one day be to a Lunar's benefit, rather than just a leash around the neck of a Solar's pet Lunar, brings me joy.

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Originally Posted by Jade Dragon

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...What gave you that idea? Solars can't have the shapeshifting powers my Infernals do. Nor can they become primordials without that one crippling weakness (although I don't think they get that 1000 mote Essence pool either).

...

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I was looking at it as an Infernal not required to work to the themes of a particular Yozi's/themselves after Devil Tiger, is just a straight "I'm awesome because I'm awesome" type build, which seemed to just be a Solar by a different name. Not having the thematic restraints on their Charms seems to defeat the purpose of playing an Infernal, to me at least.

But maybe I'm wrong.

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Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard

I was looking at it as an Infernal not required to work to the themes of a particular Yozi's/themselves after Devil Tiger, is just a straight "I'm awesome because I'm awesome" type build, which seemed to just be a Solar by a different name. Not having the thematic restraints on their Charms seems to defeat the purpose of playing an Infernal, to me at least.

But maybe I'm wrong.

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Well, I meant less restrictions on Charms. I guess there are still thematic restrictions for Heretical Charms, but they're loosened. For example, a Charm that changes your body in its entirety to make you look like another human requires too much subtlety for Malfeas, but isn't going to fit in the Ebon Dragon's Charmset either. The solution? Combine them with the Heretical keyword.

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Originally Posted by Jade Dragon

So it's not Exalted, it's the fact that he wants to start as a 500 year-old Solaroid with thirty Charms and twice the number of bonus poimts when everyone else is at chargen.

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Actually now that he's tried Exalted he never wants to play anything else.

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Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard

I was looking at it as an Infernal not required to work to the themes of a particular Yozi's/themselves after Devil Tiger, is just a straight "I'm awesome because I'm awesome" type build, which seemed to just be a Solar by a different name. Not having the thematic restraints on their Charms seems to defeat the purpose of playing an Infernal, to me at least.

But maybe I'm wrong.

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Don't Devil Tigers have their own thematic restrictions? I don't own any Infernals material, but that's the impression I've gotten.

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Originally Posted by Rhyvurg

Actually now that he's tried Exalted he never wants to play anything else.

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Then play a Dragon-Blooded game.

I know your answer is going to be something like "he only wants to play celestial exalts". If that's the case, the problem isn't Exalted. It's that he's been handed a lot of power at one point, and due to Power Gamer/Munchkin syndrome, doesn't want to play with anything less. This would've also happened if he had tried Scion instead. Or Nobilis. Or the higher superhero power levels in Strands of Fate. Then he would only want to play one of those.

This isn't a problem with Exalted. This is a problem with a player wanting as much power as possible. Exalted is just a high-powered game.

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Originally Posted by meschlum

Emergency Chandelier

The Fair Folk are heroic swashbucklers, wandering through Creation performing good deeds, rescuing ladies in need and flouting the corrupt authorities at every turn. Such wonderous feats of derring-do demand a proper scene, and thus the Raksha have developed a quite complex and intricate code as to priority and sharing rules for chandeliers. Thus, one who is rescuing a princess gets to swing before one who is fighting off a batch of ducal guards, while a Fair Folk introducing herself to a band of hearty rebels must share the chandelier with another who is reporting a successful assassination to a cardinal.

Knowing the importance of such matters, Creation is fairly generous in chandeliers, the unnatural process of Fate arringing for them to be present in most places where heroes require them. Still, it does not compare to the Wyld and so there are places in Creation which are explicitly void of chandeliers.

Such a terrible threat to hearty adventure and heroics cannot be borne, and thus all the better class of Raksha make sure that their mortal sidekicks carry an Emergency Chandelier, ensuring that such can be obtained no matter what.

1-dot Oneiromancy
Assumption of the Person's Heart - the Emergency Chandelier implants itself within the heart of a mortal side-kick.
Ordinary Object Conjuration - when called upon, the Emergency Chandelier manifests a beautiful, crystaline chandelier. This object is affixed nearby, and has a rope which is as solid as the power of plot.
Elegant Muse Attitude - the Emergency Chandelier is explicitly designed to make acrobatics much easier.
Subversion and Transformation Artifice - while swinging on an Emergency Chandelier, a special whistle will transmute the nearest animal at the other end into a loyal and noble white horse, to facilitate epic departures. Some Raksha add wings and gills to their horses, just in case.


And welcome, of course. Actually collecting all the random things I've made would be a lot of work, so I haven't really tried.

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This is perfect. I explained it to the non-Exalted-player next to me, and he agrees.

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Originally Posted by Geostationary

Don't Devil Tigers have their own thematic restrictions? I don't own any Infernals material, but that's the impression I've gotten.

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Yes. Each Primordial charmset has thematic restrictions. The key point is that overall they don't really have restrictions, but any given Infernal will.

Third edition is coming!
Possibly after the apocalypse.

Exalted Third Edition. Scheduled release date, December 2012.

Oh, and guess what. Geoff Grabowski back.


My Reaction.

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Originally Posted by Darkheart One

I would say the 1e one I played for two years (basically Sun Wukong with more lust and a genderflip), but I can also include:

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My favorite one is a "Romance of Three Kingdoms" styled clan-lord of a group of fox themed guys. Although he had to commit suicide to protect clan's secrets from enemy Exalted ... nothing stops another Raksha from theming himself or herself as "reincarnation".

Another one, that scared ST who forbade me from using him, was Fomorian themed after VooDoo witch doctor. Hoodie was very helpful ! Giving powers to humans who come asking. First time for free.

ST decided that I would be too successful in letting humans destroy Creation with Fair Folk powers.:smalltongue:

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Originally Posted by Darkheart One

• The Perfect Butler/Sidekick/Toadie (All of the World-Shaping Charms, and a bucketload of customs)

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• An useful one. But every time I tried to play support character I got ... these suspicious glances. From Players. :smallconfused:
  
  
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  Originally Posted by Darkheart One
• Mildly-to-Moderately Oddball Craftsman (based on Gepetto, no less, which led to a Pinnochio-like behemoth named Dimenticato)