OK so now is there a race with +2 int and is small size?

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2012-08-20, 12:58 AM
metabolicjosh

OK so now is there a race with +2 int and is small size?

What The Title Says?
I Need It So I Can Make A Hulk In Epic 6

Update 1

Now we need a LA 1 or less to make an Aberation!

So Close

Update 2

Ok now i need a Small creature with a +2 int and no la.

Will post a link to the build so far
2012-08-20, 01:02 AM
Ravens_cry

Re: Is there a template that makes you small?

Pathfinder has the Young template that could be applied to humanoid species.
3.5 had a template that reduced size. I can't remember what it was called unfortunately, but the fluff was these creatures were born and raised in caves and other tight spaces.
2012-08-20, 01:07 AM
metabolicjosh

Re: Is there a template that makes you small?

Young might work but if i could know any others that would be helpful.

Thanks
2012-08-20, 01:12 AM
Amidus Drexel

Re: Is there a template that makes you small?

There's Dungeonbred, from Dungeonscape, although I don't remember if it had any limits on the types of creatures you could apply it to.
2012-08-20, 01:17 AM
Ernir

Re: Is there a template that makes you small?

Dungeonbred only applies to "any corporeal aberration, animal, magical beast or vermin that is Large or bigger".
2012-08-20, 01:19 AM
Hand_of_Vecna

Re: Is there a template that makes you small?

Dungeonbred is the template in question and it's from dungeonscape. It reduces the creatures size and effectively haves the normal strength penalty for this change while giving some other bonuses that fit a theme of being a lean mean fighting machine. Won't work for the OP though the base creature must be large or larger and must be an aberration, animal, magical beast or vermin.
2012-08-20, 11:31 AM
metabolicjosh

Re: Is there a template that makes you small?

Well then i need a LA 1 template that makes me a aberation.
2012-08-20, 11:36 AM
VGLordR2

Re: Is there a template that makes you small?

Quote:

Originally Posted by metabolicjosh

Well then i need a LA 1 template that makes me a aberation.

The only one I can think of is the Symbiotic Creature template, from Savage Species. It can get pretty overpowered, though.
2012-08-20, 11:41 AM
Urpriest

Re: Is there a template that makes you small?

Quote:

Originally Posted by metabolicjosh

Well then i need a LA 1 template that makes me a aberation.

There are plenty of LA 0 Aberration races. What race are you starting with?
2012-08-20, 11:43 AM
metabolicjosh

Re: Is there a template that makes you small?

Goliath
Im trying to side step the usual 6 level lead up to "Hulk Out"
2012-08-20, 11:44 AM
dextercorvia

Re: Is there a template that makes you small?

Quote:

Originally Posted by metabolicjosh

Well then i need a LA 1 template that makes me a aberation.

What if you begin as a Half-Minotaur Elan?

OTOH, Dungeonbred doesn't have a listed LA.
2012-08-20, 11:53 AM
Urpriest

Re: Is there a template that makes you small?

Quote:

Originally Posted by metabolicjosh

Goliath
Im trying to side step the usual 6 level lead up to "Hulk Out"

Ah. Hmm...

Actually, why do you need to be small? Already just as a Goliath Barbarian 5 you are Medium except when you rage, so a Goliath Barbarian 5/War Hulk 1 would only gain the benefits of War Hulk while in a rage. The whole point of small in most Hulk builds is the comedy value of being a kobold or a halfling or the like and doing this, but you'd be a goliath, even if a small one, so you wouldn't get that.

That said, if you still want to be small, the following applies:

So you don't need any Goliath except for qualification for the sub-level, right?

How about: you start out as a Half-Minotaur Goliath. Yes this means you're Large, seems like a step backwards. You then become a Dustform Creature, followed by Incarnate Construct. You are now a Large Giant, but also a Goliath. Then have someone cast Return to Nature on you (it's E6, so you'll need to find a Dragon or similar) twice. You will shrink to small.
2012-08-20, 12:07 PM
metabolicjosh

Re: Is there a template that makes you small?

:smalleek: Thats a intriguing idea
2012-08-20, 12:12 PM
dextercorvia

Re: Is there a template that makes you small?

The other reason to be small in the Hulk build (non-kobold small that is), is that you will get the benefit of two size increases when you use Mountain Rage. That is an extra +4 Str, +2 Con, IIRC. Of course you are usually paying for it with a Racial -2 Str, so it is only marginally useful.
2012-08-20, 12:24 PM
Urpriest

Re: Is there a template that makes you small?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dextercorvia

The other reason to be small in the Hulk build (non-kobold small that is), is that you will get the benefit of two size increases when you use Mountain Rage. That is an extra +4 Str, +2 Con, IIRC. Of course you are usually paying for it with a Racial -2 Str, so it is only marginally useful.

The only time size increases increase stats beyond what the particular size increase says is monster advancement. Starting small doesn't get you any extra Str.
2012-08-20, 12:48 PM
dextercorvia

Re: Is there a template that makes you small?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urpriest

The only time size increases increase stats beyond what the particular size increase says is monster advancement. Starting small doesn't get you any extra Str.

I thought I remembered Mountain Rage saying something about gaining those stat adjustments, but on a double check, I was wrong. Then, I guess you are right and it is just for the lulz.
2012-08-20, 12:57 PM
metabolicjosh

Re: Is there a template that makes you small?

Ok now i need a Small creature with a +2 int and no la.

Will post a link to the build so far
2012-08-20, 01:01 PM
Mithril Leaf

Re: OK so now is there a race with +2 int and is small size?

If you really don't care about the fluff, there's the beguiler, a magical beast from around page 11 of Shining South that has +6 dex, +2 int, -2 str, and is small. It also has constant true seeing and is a cohort however.
2012-08-20, 01:10 PM
Darrin

Re: OK so now is there a race with +2 int and is small size?

Dragonlance Gnomes: +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Str, -2 Wis. Small size. Dragonlance Campaign Setting p. 27.
2012-08-20, 03:06 PM
Urpriest

Re: OK so now is there a race with +2 int and is small size?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darrin

Dragonlance Gnomes: +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Str, -2 Wis. Small size. Dragonlance Campaign Setting p. 27.

Dragon Magazine also had the Arcane Gnome with similar stats (Con instead of Dex I think).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf

If you ~~really don't care about the~~ want really really awesome fluff, there's the beguiler, a magical beast from around page 11 of Shining South that has +6 dex, +2 int, -2 str, and is small. It also has constant true seeing and is a cohort however.

FTFY
2012-08-20, 03:15 PM
Mithril Leaf

Re: OK so now is there a race with +2 int and is small size?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urpriest

Dragon Magazine also had the Arcane Gnome with similar stats (Con instead of Dex I think).

FTFY

He said he was making a hulk. I personally love them.
2012-08-20, 07:52 PM
Endarire

Re: OK so now is there a race with +2 int and is small size?

If you go with the Blue from Expanded Psionics Handbook (and ignore the errata and get GM permission), they're no LA, but are Small and have +2 INT.
2012-08-20, 08:01 PM
Rubik

Re: OK so now is there a race with +2 int and is small size?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endarire

If you go with the Blue from Expanded Psionics Handbook (and ignore the errata and get GM permission), they're no LA, but are Small and have +2 INT.

They REALLY should be +0 LA creatures. They're worse than both regular goblins and gray elves stat-wise, and both of those are 0 LA.