-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Shining Wrath
Translate, though, is a key word; it may be an "Easter Egg" joke rather than a key plot point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zimmerwald1915
Yendor points out dialogue that also indicates Sigdi is "important to" the Temple of Thor.
In addition, we see Durkon reading the wall when it appears. He would have noticed, and even when the Giant has just put Easter eggs in the strip into fonts like this, they translate into things that make sense in context. Assuming Durkon can read that font, he would read "Sigdi Thundershield." (If the names weren't supposed to mean anything, Rich probably would have put meaningless names, maybe Kickstarter backers, or just a message like "There's no clue on these walls.")
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
I doubt that we see Sabine in this - I cannot imagine the directors are want the vampires to succeed, but I also doubt that they want to go up against Hel. I expect V to be left alone for these battles.
I agree that we'll see her again at some point, as the last remnant of the Linear Guild.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ruck
In addition, we see Durkon reading the wall when it appears. He would have noticed, and even when the Giant has just put Easter eggs in the strip into fonts like this, they translate into things that make sense in context. Assuming Durkon can read that font, he would read "Sigdi Thundershield." (If the names weren't supposed to mean anything, Rich probably would have put meaningless names, maybe Kickstarter backers, or just a message like "There's no clue on these walls.")
i agree its an awful lot of effort to go through just to mislead people i think its more likely that it is Sigdis' name on the wall and that Durkon wonders why she didnt use the money to get her arm healed.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
You know... they do refer to Sigdi as "sergeant" in might possibly be the present tense. Also, I'm interested in HER reaction to what's been done to her boy.
The "Durkon is now allowed to return" plot hook may not be to save Durkon from Greg. It might be to save the temple of Thor from Sigdi. If Durkon's been repressed his whole life, his mom has 20 years of repressed sorrow. If the pale patrol vamp HER right after she learns of what the temple did to her boy...
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manty5
You know... they do refer to Sigdi as "sergeant" in might possibly be the present tense. Also, I'm interested in HER reaction to what's been done to her boy.
The "Durkon is now allowed to return" plot hook may not be to save Durkon from Greg. It might be to save the temple of Thor from Sigdi. If Durkon's been repressed his whole life, his mom has 20 years of repressed sorrow. If the pale patrol vamp HER right after she learns of what the temple did to her boy...
You don't get to live off a pension if you're still currently in service. They exist so you have something to live off of after you're done working.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rrmcklin
You don't get to live off a pension if you're still currently in service. They exist so you have something to live off of after you're done working.
I believe Manty5 means that Sigdi is still alive, not that she is still an active duty sergeant.
Although if there's an emergency, even a one-armed retiree might be called back - we don't know the exact terms of the dwarven army's policies. It may be akin to the USMC; you may stop serving in active duty, but you are always a Marine. For some reason I think the dwarves and the Bulldogs would understand one another.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kashem
OK, here's my theories (for all they aren't worth):[...] Even on his worst day, Durkon could never hurt his mother. Maybe we'll see the line that Durkula can't cross because he's only evil, not EVIL.[...]
Why do you think he wouldn't hurt Sigdi? His whole plan (well, Hel's plan) is to send all the dwarves, including her, to Hel to suffer for all eternity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zimmerwald1915
Point is, we're due for an explanation of what Durkon told Hilgya: that his Ma taught him self-denial and the importance of duty - especially if it makes you miserable. [...]
Agreed. I think it's about time we got some context on this. I could be wrong but either way, I'm really happy we're getting more Durkon memories.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SilverCacaobean
Why do you think he wouldn't hurt Sigdi? His whole plan (well, Hel's plan) is to send all the dwarves, including her, to Hel to suffer for all eternity.
Agreed. I think it's about time we got some context on
this. I could be wrong but either way, I'm really happy we're getting more Durkon memories.
And Im convinced were about to see the conversation were she stresses that point from next strip on
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manty5
You know... they do refer to Sigdi as "sergeant" in might possibly be the present tense. Also, I'm interested in HER reaction to what's been done to her boy.
The "Durkon is now allowed to return" plot hook may not be to save Durkon from Greg. It might be to save the temple of Thor from Sigdi. If Durkon's been repressed his whole life, his mom has 20 years of repressed sorrow. If the pale patrol vamp HER right after she learns of what the temple did to her boy...
What did the temple do to her boy which she doesnt know about for the last 20 years ??
sch
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SilverCacaobean
Why do you think he wouldn't hurt Sigdi? His whole plan (well, Hel's plan) is to send all the dwarves, including her, to Hel to suffer for all eternity.
I've been thinking... not that it affects the storyline, it's more of a philosophical questioning... some dwarves might escape Hel during the death-by-erased-world event. The Giant has aknowledged that living an honorable life is important, maybe as much as the moment of death. At least, living an honorable life might lead someone to be doing something honorable at the moment of death. With this last thought in mind, there will certainly be dwarves that, at the moment the world is being erased, will be "being honorable" and thus will escape Hel.
Again, I don't think this affects the fact the they must stop Hel anyway.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fyraltari
Durkon is more than 50 year old. I doubt there is anything left of Tenrin to cast on.
And The Giant doesn't like True Resurrection. At all.
All it would take is a small bit of bone--resurrection will work on someone dead up to ten years per caster level. They'd have to dig into that rockslide, but if any of the skeleton is there and the spirit is willing to be raised, it could be done.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eilandesq
All it would take is a small bit of bone--resurrection will work on someone dead up to ten years per caster level. They'd have to dig into that rockslide, but if any of the skeleton is there and the spirit is willing to be raised, it could be done.
That seems like the kind of excavation and forensics project that could take a long time. The Order has a world to save, and is on a clock.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zimmerwald1915
That seems like the kind of excavation and forensics project that could take a long time. The Order has a world to save, and is on a clock.
True. But "locate object" and "passwall" would probably get it done if they needed to do it for some reason.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zimmerwald1915
The Order has a world to save, and is on a clock.
The order need not dig: there's a whole city full of dwarves for that, if the plot requires.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manty5
You know... they do refer to Sigdi as "sergeant" in might possibly be the present tense.
Okay, gotcha. I couldn't remember if it had been said by any trustworthy narrators.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eilandesq
True. But "locate object" and "passwall" would probably get it done if they needed to do it for some reason.
Consider also that Tenrin might not consent to being Ressurected.
If he died with honor, he's safe from Hel. Being reborn into the world again puts him back in jeapordy (/cue Wierd Al). And if he's been dead for 50 years in the afterlife, perhaps the idea of the mortal world and all its trials, no longer holds an appeal for him. Case in point, I doubt Roy's mother would accept a Ressurection, even if one could be provided. She is content where she is, and has come fully to terms with being dead.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
D.One
I've been thinking... not that it affects the storyline, it's more of a philosophical questioning... some dwarves might escape Hel during the death-by-erased-world event. The Giant has aknowledged that living an honorable life is important, maybe as much as the moment of death. At least, living an honorable life might lead someone to be doing something honorable at the moment of death. With this last thought in mind, there will certainly be dwarves that, at the moment the world is being erased, will be "being honorable" and thus will escape Hel.
Again, I don't think this affects the fact the they must stop Hel anyway.
Yes, I think the point is that the only reliable means of escaping Hel's grasp is by dying honorably in battle. In fact, it seems to me that it is so reliable, that probably a lot of lousy examples of dwarfdom, lives that well-deserve Hel's eternal attentions, escape their just fate by a small helping of courage and well-timed bloodshed.
In essence, isn't that Hel's gripe? That many many souls that should have been hers are going elsewhere based on a "technicality"? We have no particular reason to doubt that Hel is being quite truthful about how unfairly it all has worked out.
That said, IMHO, The Giant's comments have implied that others could "die with honor" by virtue of living genuinely virtuous lives in an honorable fashion. Of course, such is probably pretty hard, not something the average dwarf can necessarily achieve. Why count on that when you have a Sure Thing?
BTW, The Bet suggests to me that no dwarf truly retires from the military. Sigdi may be on pension, which means she has retired from the daily grind that an active member is responsible for. But, all dwarves have some expectation that a battle can be found soonish when their health beginning to fail. Not that all dwarves necessarily need such an out (see above), but dwarven society would be arranged such that the option was available to all.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mandor
I doubt Roy's mother would accept a Ressurection, even if one could be provided. She is content where she is, and has come fully to terms with being dead.
I've always been curious how old Roy's mother was when she died, how large is the age gap between her and Eugene, and how old they were when they had children. It feels like a series of details that probably have some inconsistencies when you think about it, but I don't think I've ever thought it important enough to the story to try to figure out.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ruck
I've always been curious how old Roy's mother was when she died, how large is the age gap between her and Eugene, and how old they were when they had children. It feels like a series of details that probably have some inconsistencies when you think about it, but I don't think I've ever thought it important enough to the story to try to figure out.
We know at least that she was 19 or older, since her form in Celestial is of the "19 year old looker who had never even heard of Eugene Greenhilt."
If we assume she met and married him only very shortly after turning 19, then, by this timeline:
http://oots.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline
Eugene was born in 1102, married in 1153 (Sara being born in 1134 or very shortly earlier), they had their first child (Roy) in 1155, they had their second child Eric in 1162, they had their third child Julia in 1167 (after Eric died in 1165) and Eugene died in 1180 (Sara dying in 1181)
So - age gap is on the order of 32 years or less, Eugene is 53 when he has his first child (and Sara at least 21) Eugene is 65 when he has his last child (and Sara at least 33), and Eugene is 78 when he dies (and Sara at least 47 when she dies a year later).
Of course - this is the absolute lower limit. Sara may be a few years older than this.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
When he meets her in heaven, Roy mentions remembering his mom as having grey hair and osteoporosis, so I think we can conclude she didn't die in her 40s.
Absent other evidence, I'd guess she was 40 when she had Julia (close to the upper limit for having kids) and 64 when she died.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Plenty of people go grey young. Osteoporosis, however, does tend to kick in a bit later.
But I don't think 47 is problematically young for it, given that, while it's rare in under-50s, it happens. Especially if the person has had early menopause for some reason.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
But do we have any particular reason for thinking she was that young? She never said she met Eugene at 20, just that her "ideal self" is age 19 and she didn't know him yet then.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Eugene does, when showing Roy in the prequels what Sara looked like that back then (with an illusion) refer to her as "girl" rather than "woman" but that's pretty ambiguous.
If she had a CON of 3, then aging penalties would reduce it to 0 by Old Age (53) and mean she'd die at 53 instead of 72 or older.
Using The Giant's interpretation of INT 3 as being the lowest a normal person's INT can be, the same might apply to CON.
If she died at 53 instead of 47, she'd have married Eugene at around 25 instead of 19. She is wearing her hair down rather than in pigtails in the flashback scene - which might be a hint that she's just a little older.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hamishspence
Eugene does, when showing Roy in the prequels what Sara looked like that back then (with an illusion) refer to her as "girl" rather than "woman" but that's pretty ambiguous.
If she had a CON of 3, then aging penalties would reduce it to 0 by Old Age (53) and mean she'd die at 53 instead of 72 or older.
Using The Giant's interpretation of INT 3 as being the lowest a normal person's INT can be, the same might apply to CON.
If she died at 53 instead of 47, she'd have married Eugene at around 25 instead of 19. She is wearing her hair down rather than in pigtails in the flashback scene - which might be a hint that she's just a little older.
My guess is that she got sick and failed her saving throws, and that for some reason a cleric wasn't around to take care of the problem. Except for the "failed saving throws" and "clerics with remove disease existed" part, that happened a lot back in the day.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LadyEowyn
When he meets her in heaven, Roy mentions remembering his mom as having grey hair and osteoporosis, so I think we can conclude she didn't die in her 40s.
Absent other evidence, I'd guess she was 40 when she had Julia (close to the upper limit for having kids) and 64 when she died.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hamishspence
Plenty of people go grey young. Osteoporosis, however, does tend to kick in a bit later.
But I don't think 47 is problematically young for it, given that, while it's rare in under-50s, it happens. Especially if the person has had early menopause for some reason.
Aside from the probability of osteoporosis, in fact Sara's minimum age at her moment of death is around 47 (middle age, close to old age by DnD's human standards). Since everything points out that she was younger than Eugene, she couldn't be more than 79 when she died (venerable age).
DnD humans (without magical augmentation) live up to 72-90 years. That means Sara could have died of old age, depending on how much younger than Eugene she was. If so, no Rezz for her. If not, she would probably not want to go back anyway, since she's pretty happy where she is.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Since Venerable Age is 70, a Con 6 or lower person would die at 70 instead of "having the gods roll the dice for maximum age".
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Giant
Eugene literally died of old age. When a person reaches a certain age, the gods roll dice to see what his or her maximum lifespan is going to be, and when the person hits 12:01 on that birthday, they keel over dead from no apparent cause.
This is definitely true in the OOTS world, and probably true in many other fantasy worlds (except perhaps the birthday timing). The gods measuring the lifespan of every person has deep roots in mythology—the Fates, the Norns, etc. People don't die of cancer in a fantasy world, they die of having the thread of their existence severed by the personifications of Destiny.
Once you have fireballs and dragons, you have to accept that sometimes, things are exactly what they are described as being, science be damned.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LadyEowyn
Absent other evidence, I'd guess she was 40 when she had Julia (close to the upper limit for having kids) and 64 when she died.
Well, Julia's certainly not 24 now.
This highlights the inconsistency I struggle with: Either Sara married Eugene pretty young and then died much younger than he did with no apparent explanation, or she had children implausibly late in life.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ruck
Well, Julia's certainly not 24 now.
This highlights the inconsistency I struggle with: Either Sara married Eugene pretty young and then died much younger than he did with no apparent explanation, or she had children implausibly late in life.
Or A Wizard Did It. That wizard probably being Eugene.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hamishspence
Since Venerable Age is 70, a Con 6 or lower person would die at 70 instead of "having the gods roll the dice for maximum age".
Eugene died at 78, within 72-90 human's maxmum age range. That means he certainly didn't have (before Middle age) a CON lower than 7, or he would have died at 70, as you noted. Sara could have had a CON of 6 or less and have died when she reached 70, but since we don't know how she died, it's hard to tell.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ruck
Either Sara married Eugene pretty young and then died much younger than he did with no apparent explanation, or she had children implausibly late in life.
She could even have had a CON of 3 and died at 53. That would have made her 25 when she married Eugene, 27 when she had Roy, and 39 when she had Julia.
Result - a "natural causes" explanation for early death, and Julia being conceived not at a problematically late age.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
D.One
Sara could have had a CON of 6 or less and have died when she reached 70, but since we don't know how she died, it's hard to tell.
Problem is (with CON 4-6), that would have made her 54 when she had Julia - which is "Old age". It would also mean she'd be 40 when she married Eugene - which doesn't exactly fit with the flashback scene.
-
Re: OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hamishspence
She could even have had a CON of 3 and died at 53. That would have made her 25 when she married Eugene, 27 when she had Roy, and 39 when she had Julia.
Result - a "natural causes" explanation for early death, and Julia being conceived not at a problematically late age.
I didn't know a human could die that young from natural causes under D&D rules, but this would work if it fits. Do we have any indicators for exactly when Sara died?