The Stormlord, D&D 3.5 Base Class - PEACH isn't necessary but you can if you like

Credit goes to: Me (for the idea, and the majority of the mechanics) and Lix Lorn (for fine-tuning, balance issues and little extras here and there).

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"In the heart of the storm, he of the tempest sat, watching those below. He smiled as he saw them strive to survive the weather he had set against them, and when the thunder and lightning had passed, the survivors received his blessing for their strength." - Legend of Titanus

It is said that near the beginning of the lesser races, the Thunder Ancient Titanus tested mortals with his power, and as a reward for their strength and determination to survive, willingly mixed his blood with theirs. It is believed that this blood was passed down and diluted, generation after generation, and that it made the mortals strong. While little evidence of this exists, the Cult of Titanus still believe. They believe that those in which the blood of Titanus is strongest, have a natural talent for electricity, and a penchant for justice (no matter its personal meaning to them), they believe that the Stormlords, the sons and daughters of Titanus, still walk this earth.

Stormlord
HD: d12
Skill points at 1st level: (4+Int Modifier) x4
Skill points at other levels: 4+Int Modifier
Class Skills: Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Listen (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis) and Swim (Str).
Weapon Proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons, and one exotic melee weapon.
Armour Proficiencies: All types of armour, but not shields.

Level	Base Attack Bonus	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Special
1st	+1	+2	+2	+0	Thunderstrike +1d6, Electromagnetic Affinity, Two-Weapon Fighting
2nd	+2	+3	+3	+0	Inspiring Presence, Giant's Grip, Lightning Lunge +10ft (1st ability)
3rd	+3	+3	+3	+1	Stormbolt 60ft
4th	+4	+4	+4	+1	Thunderstrike +2d6, Tempest’s Challenge, Crossblades, Lightning Lunge (2nd ability)
5th	+5	+4	+4	+1	Lightning Shield d4, Detect Thoughts, Lightning Lunge +20ft
6th	+6/+1	+5	+5	+2	Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Stormbolt 75ft, Lightning Lunge (3rd ability)
7th	+7/+2	+5	+5	+2	Thunderstrike +3d6
8th	+8/+3	+6	+6	+2	Stormstomp, Improved Crossblades
9th	+9/+4	+6	+6	+3	Stormbolt 90ft
10th	+10/+5	+7	+7	+3	Thunderstrike +4d6, Improved Thunderstrike, Lightning Shield d6, Lightning Lunge +30ft
11th	+11/+6/+1	+7	+7	+3	Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
12th	+12/+7/+2	+8	+8	+4	Stormbolt 105ft
13th	+13/+8/+3	+8	+8	+4	Thunderstrike +5d6
14th	+14/+9/+4	+9	+9	+4	Hand of Justice
15th	+15/+10/+5	+9	+9	+5	Greater Thunderstrike, Stormbolt 120ft, Lightning Shield d8
16th	+16/+11/+6/+1	+10	+10	+5	Thunderstrike +6d6
17th	+17/+12/+7/+2	+10	+10	+5	Wrath of Titanus
18th	+18/+13/+8/+3	+11	+11	+6	Stormbolt 135ft
19th	+19/+14/+9/+4	+11	+11	+6	Thunderstrike +7d6
20th	+20/+15/+10/+5	+12	+12	+6	Mountain Emperor, Lightning Shield d10

Abilities
Thunderstrike (Ex): While dual-wielding, the melee weapons the Stormlord is wielding deal extra electricity damage.
This damage increases by 1d6 every 3 levels beyond first.
At level 10, a Stormlord's thunderstrike damage ignores the first 10 points of resistance to electricity that the target has.
At level 15, a Stormlord's thunderstrike damage cannot be reduced by resistances, and is only reduced by 10 against creatures usually immune to electricity.
This extra damage is not multiplied on a critical hit. This ability also functions while unarmed, but affects only unarmed strikes. This ability may be deactivated or reactivated as a free action.

Electromagnetic Affinity (Su, Spell-like): A Stormlord naturally feels the electricity in the air around himself, which includes the electromagnetic waves of the brain, this grants him a +4 bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate and Sense Motive checks. In addition, the Stormlord is capable of literally using brute force to make these waves do what the Stormlord wants, allowing them to substitute their Strength Modifier instead of the respective skill attribute modifier (i.e. Charisma) for checks involving the list of skills mentioned above.
At level 5, the Stormlord can tap into these waves to use Detect Thoughts as a Spell-like Ability once/day, and may use it once more per day per 2 levels above 5th. This ability can be used as a free action, and ignores the Verbal, Somatic and Focus components, but the Stormlord must still concentrate to extend the duration.
The Stormlord uses this ability as if he had a caster level equal to his Stormlord level, using Strength as his casting statistic. (Will Save DC 12 + Str Modifier)

Two-Weapon Fighting: At level 1, a Stormlord gains the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for free.
At level 6, they receive the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat for free
At level 11, they receive the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat for free.

Giant's Grip (Ex): The Stormlord receives the Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting feat for free at level 2.

Inspiring Presence (Ex): Being near the Stormlord inspires courage, heroics and even competence.
All allies within 60ft of the Stormlord who can see and hear him, receive several bonuses depending on the Stormlord's level
Level 2: Allies gain a +1 bonus to all attack rolls, damage rolls, saves and skill checks.
Level 6: Allies gain a +2 bonus to all attack rolls, damage rolls, saves and skill checks, and are immune to fear.
Level 10: Allies gain a +3 bonus to all attack rolls, damage rolls, saves and skill checks, are immune to fear and gain +1 HD (d10).
Level 14: Allies gain a +4 bonus to all attack rolls, damage rolls, saves and skill checks, are immune to fear, gain +2HD (d10) and a +4 dodge bonus to AC.
The only benefit the Stormlord receives from this ability is the immunity to fear, starting at Level 6.
The bonus HD only grant extra HP to allies, but still count for the purposes of spells with varying effects as a result of HD (e.g. Sleep, Power Word: Kill, etc, etc).

Lightning Lunge (Ex): The Stormlord uses the electricity that gravitates naturally to them to amplify their every movement. This class ability grants several bonuses:
- The Stormlord’s base speed is increased by 10ft. At level 5, this bonus increases to 20ft, and at level 10, it increases to 30ft.
- At 4th level, the Stormlord’s nervous system is enhanced, making them capable of moving both before, during (if they make multiple attacks in one round) and after their attacks, even when in heavy armour. This ability counts as Spring Attack for the purposes of prerequisites.
- At 6th level, the Stormlord is capable of redirecting the energy that makes them naturally fast to perform small bursts of massive speed. They gain the Pounce special ability.

Stormbolt (Su): A level 3 or higher Stormlord can choose, as a standard action, to throw their main-hand weapon as a bolt of lightning once per encounter.
This attack is done by making a melee touch attack roll against a target within 60ft.
This deals electric damage equal to 1d6 per two Stormlord levels, plus the Stormlord's Thunderstrike damage (the bonus damage applies only if the Stormlord was dual-wielding before the Throw).
Every 3 levels after 3rd, the range of Stormbolt increases by 15ft.
In addition, the damage caused by this ability benefits from the effects of Improved Thunderstrike and Greater Thunderstrike.
The weapon returns to the Stormlord's hands at the end of the round it was thrown.

Crossblades: An experienced Stormlord becomes incredibly used to wielding two weapons at a time, so much so that most can barely distinguish between using two weapons and one weapon. Reduce the penalties for dual-wielding by 1. In addition, the Stormlord applies 75% of his Str/Dex modifier to damage rolls with his off-hand attacks rather than 50%.
At level 8, reduce the penalties for dual-wielding by 2, and the Stormlord applies 100% of his Str/Dex modifier to damage rolls with his off-hand attacks.

Lightning Shield (Su): Those who attack the Stormlord with melee attacks take 1d4 electricity damage per two Stormlord levels if they hit the Stormlord.
This ability benefits from the effects of Improved Thunderstrike and Greater Thunderstrike.
Every 5 levels, the damage die of Lightning Shield increases by 1 step.
The recipient of these “counter-attacks” can make a DC 10 + 1/2 Stormlord Level + Stormlord’s Con Mod Fortitude Save to take only half damage.
A single enemy can only be struck once per round by Lightning Shield.
Lightning Shield also grants the Stormlord Electricity Resistance 5 + Con Modifier.
In addition, the damage caused by this ability benefits from the effects of Improved Thunderstrike and Greater Thunderstrike.

Tempest's Challenge (Mind-affecting, Sonic, Language-Dependent, Ex): Once per round, as a swift action, the Stormlord may issue a challenge to one enemy within 100ft who can hear the Stormlord, forcing that enemy to make a Will Save (DC 10 + ½ Stormlord level + Stormlord's Strength bonus)
If the enemy fails that Will Save, on their next action, the enemy must target the Stormlord with an available form of attack or harmful effect (i.e. damaging spell or a debuff spell). If the the target it out of range to use any available options, then they must move within range before making the "attack action". If the target has multiple available 'attack' options, then they get to choose which one they use.
The taunt lasts for one round (the target behaves normally next round), but can be reapplied next round (Reapplying the taunt on the same target imposes a -2 penalty to the DC).

Stormstomp (Ex): You may forgo your highest BAB main-hand attack and your highest BAB off-hand attack this round to perform a Stormstomp. This is done as a standard action or as part of a full attack.
This attack deals sonic damage equal to the combined base damage of your main-hand and off-hand weapons to all enemies within 15ft of you.
Enemies hit by this attack are stunned (DC 10 + 1/2 Stormlord level + Strength Modifier Fortitude Save to negate) for 1 round.

Hand of Justice (Su): As a standard action, the Stormlord can target anything up to 5ft/level away, and by unleashing a tendril of lightning , attempt to pull the target to the space directly 5ft in front of him.
This ability deals damage equal to your Thunderstrike bonus damage.
The target gets a Fortitude save to halve the damage (DC 10 + 1/2 Stormlord's level + Stormlord’s Str Modifier), and a reflex save to avoid the movement effect (DC 10 + 1/2 Stormlord's level + Stormlord’s Str Modifier).
The movement this effect causes does not provoke Attacks of Opportunity.
The Stormlord can freely choose to remove the damaging effect from this ability. Friendly targets can choose to automatically fail the reflex save.
In addition, the damage caused by this ability benefits from the effects of Improved Thunderstrike and Greater Thunderstrike.

Wrath of Titanus (Su): Once per encounter, the Stormlord may call directly upon their mythical ancient blood, unleashing the full fury of their inheritance upon their foes. As a standard action, the Stormlord releases a pulse of energy at their location, dealing 1d6 force damage per level to all enemies within 10ft. The Stormlord then leaps high into the air, and lands instantly in a space adjacent to any enemy within 100ft+5ft/level of the Stormlord’s initial location, releasing another energy pulse and dealing the same damage again. The Stormlord may then make a melee attack against the adjacent foe with both weapons (this uses up your next attack with each weapon in terms of BAB). Enemies may make a reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 Stormlord level + Stormlord’s Str Mod) to halve the damage from the energy pulses.
In addition, the damage caused by this ability benefits from the effects of Improved Thunderstrike and Greater Thunderstrike.

Mountain Emperor (Ex): Once per day, a level 20 Stormlord can transcend his mortal limitations by becoming conduit for the full power of the storm.
When activated, the clouds overhead darken, altering the weather, and the Stormlord receives several bonuses:
- +6 bonus to Strength and Constitution
- Thunderstrike bonus damage dice increase to d8s.
- DR 10/-
- For the duration of this state, the Stormlord cannot be incapacited or killed. (but at the end of the state any mortal wounds take their toll)
- Immunity to stun, paralysis, sleep, mind-affecting spells of any kind (i.e. Fear, charm, etc, etc), polymorph, death spells and energy drain.
- The Stormlord can use Wrath of Titanus once per round instead of once per encounter and the weapon thrown during Stormbolt returns to your hand instantly.
This state lasts for 5 rounds, and instantly ends at the end of a round where the Stormlord did not attack.

I like it. :smallsmile:

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Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

I like it. :smallsmile:

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Oh yeah, forgot about something. It's edit time folks. :smallwink:

This class is a very good one level dip for pretty much any TWF build. Dual wielding katanas FTW!

I'll need to look at it further to see if it remains viable for all twently levels.

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Originally Posted by Lord Ruby34

This class is a very good one level dip for pretty much any TWF build. Dual wielding katanas FTW!

I'll need to look at it further to see if it remains viable for all twently levels.

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Thanks. :smallsmile: Yeah, I really like that part too. Personally I'd go with Dwarven Waraxes, but I like my Dwarves.

For Stormbolt, Stormstomp and Wrath of Titanus, you have to specify what BAB you're making the attacks at and/or which attacks you can "give up."

Not bad, for a melee type.

There is already a prestige class called Stormlord from the Complete Divine handbook. This class looks ridiculously over powered though.

I would change Wrath of Titanus to a certains numbers of time per day.

Lie Detector needs a caster level and a DC for the saving throw. (I suggest class level and 10+1/2 class level +Int or Cha)

Inspiring Presence grants a bonus to damage rolls at level 1, but then not at any of the other levels. Was this intentional? Does the stormlord still give his allies a +1 bonus to damage rolls at the other levels? Additionally, this bonus should not be untyped. I suggest making it a morale bonus myself, that's what it seems like. The extra HD, do they grant points of BAB? Bonuses to saving throws? Skill points? Feats?

Does Stormbolt still get the bonus damage from Thunderstrike if the stormlord is not currently dual-wielding? Also, generally abilities like that give a saving throw...I would remove the melee attack roll from this ability and give it a saving throw of Reflex DC 10+1/2 class level+Int or Cha, save halves the damage.

Lightning Shield's DC is very low...I would add that 1/2 class level to it to make it more viable. Additionally, does the shield activate even if the creature attacks with a melee weapon that has reach?

The taunt definitely needs work. First of all, it needs the mind-affecting and sonic, language-dependent tags. Secondly the DC should be based on Charisma, as that is generally the ability score that influences social interaction. Third, it should probably consume a swift action instead of a free action.

Stormstomp is a bit of awkward math, but otherwise looks good.

Hand of Justice has the same low DC problem as before. Generally, most classes that have abilities that allow saves have them scale with level, so that the abilities get harder to resist over time. The formula is 10+1/2 level+ability modifier.

Wrath of Titanus is cool and useful.

I'm surprised Mountain Emperor doesn't grant immunity to electricity. Just seems appropriate. Otherwise, it's a powerful boon with a short duration. Sounds like a good capstone.

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Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi

Lie Detector needs a caster level and a DC for the saving throw. (I suggest class level and 10+1/2 class level +Int or Cha)

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Since it mimics a spell, the DC would be as the spell.

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Inspiring Presence grants a bonus to damage rolls at level 1, but then not at any of the other levels. Was this intentional? Does the stormlord still give his allies a +1 bonus to damage rolls at the other levels? Additionally, this bonus should not be untyped. I suggest making it a morale bonus myself, that's what it seems like. The extra HD, do they grant points of BAB? Bonuses to saving throws? Skill points? Feats?

Does Stormbolt still get the bonus damage from Thunderstrike if the stormlord is not currently dual-wielding? Also, generally abilities like that give a saving throw...I would remove the melee attack roll from this ability and give it a saving throw of Reflex DC 10+1/2 class level+Int or Cha, save halves the damage.

Lightning Shield's DC is very low...I would add that 1/2 class level to it to make it more viable. Additionally, does the shield activate even if the creature attacks with a melee weapon that has reach?

The taunt definitely needs work. First of all, it needs the mind-affecting and sonic, language-dependent tags. Secondly the DC should be based on Charisma, as that is generally the ability score that influences social interaction. Third, it should probably consume a swift action instead of a free action.

Hand of Justice has the same low DC problem as before. Generally, most classes that have abilities that allow saves have them scale with level, so that the abilities get harder to resist over time. The formula is 10+1/2 level+ability modifier.

I'm surprised Mountain Emperor doesn't grant immunity to electricity. Just seems appropriate. Otherwise, it's a powerful boon with a short duration. Sounds like a good capstone.

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Rest are good points.
I will say that he specifically wants to NOT use mental stats though. It's a physical class, that's why abilities are Con and Str based.

Level 1 is way too frontloaded and powerful. This is problematic in regards to dips and low-level play. At level 1 with full BAB, d12 hp, any armor, TWF and Oversized TWF for free, +1d6 damage on all attacks, and 1 free exotic weapon, you're noticeably outclassing Warblades, even making Wizards blush. I recommend distributing some abilities throughout the first few levels.

Inspiring Presence /lol's at Bards, but I guess that's ok. Maybe bring it more in line with bards?

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The Stormlord himself benefits very little from this presence, but still gains the immunity to fear from 6th level and onwards.

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Must specify. You mean he gets none of the attack / damage / etc bonuses but fear immunity?

Stombolt:
You should specify that it's a standard action. Also, put the Ex / Sp / Su tags on your abilities.

Tempest's Challenge:
A free action Save-or-Die per round against casters and people who would have to wade through horrible things to get to you? Ummm...

Go look at the Knight class in PHB2. They do this ability, except it's more balanced. I'd use it as a starting point.


Rest of it looks good. Very cool class!

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Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

Since it mimics a spell, the DC would be as the spell.

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"As the spell" doesn't tell us which stat applies to the DC.

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Originally Posted by mootoall

For Stormbolt, Stormstomp and Wrath of Titanus, you have to specify what BAB you're making the attacks at and/or which attacks you can "give up."

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Stormbolt doesn't use up an attack, the drawback is that you don't have your main hand weapon for a round. It's now clarified as a standard action though.
Stormstomp doesn't require an attack roll, but now uses up your highest BAB attack with each weapon (so, if you're a level 11 Stormlord, you'd use up your +11 BAB mainhand attack and offhand attack, and still have your +6/+1 main hand attacks and your +6/+1 off hand attack).
Wrath of Titanus doesn't require an attack roll, and it doesn't require you to give up any attacks other than one main-hand and one off-hand attack at the end, which uses the next main-hand and off-hand attack you would normally use.

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Originally Posted by Razoroftruth

I would change Wrath of Titanus to a certains numbers of time per day.

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Wrath of Titanus is simply Dimension Door with two very short-range Chain-Lightning spells (so a Level 4 spell + a Level 6 spell + a Level 6 spell), I personally think once an encounter is fine. *shrugs* Sorry, but that's staying the same.

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Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi

Lie Detector needs a caster level and a DC for the saving throw. (I suggest class level and 10+1/2 class level +Int or Cha)

Inspiring Presence grants a bonus to damage rolls at level 1, but then not at any of the other levels. Was this intentional? Does the stormlord still give his allies a +1 bonus to damage rolls at the other levels? Additionally, this bonus should not be untyped. I suggest making it a morale bonus myself, that's what it seems like. The extra HD, do they grant points of BAB? Bonuses to saving throws? Skill points? Feats?

Does Stormbolt still get the bonus damage from Thunderstrike if the stormlord is not currently dual-wielding? Also, generally abilities like that give a saving throw...I would remove the melee attack roll from this ability and give it a saving throw of Reflex DC 10+1/2 class level+Int or Cha, save halves the damage.

Lightning Shield's DC is very low...I would add that 1/2 class level to it to make it more viable. Additionally, does the shield activate even if the creature attacks with a melee weapon that has reach?

The taunt definitely needs work. First of all, it needs the mind-affecting and sonic, language-dependent tags. Secondly the DC should be based on Charisma, as that is generally the ability score that influences social interaction. Third, it should probably consume a swift action instead of a free action.

Stormstomp is a bit of awkward math, but otherwise looks good.

Hand of Justice has the same low DC problem as before. Generally, most classes that have abilities that allow saves have them scale with level, so that the abilities get harder to resist over time. The formula is 10+1/2 level+ability modifier.

Wrath of Titanus is cool and useful.

I'm surprised Mountain Emperor doesn't grant immunity to electricity. Just seems appropriate. Otherwise, it's a powerful boon with a short duration. Sounds like a good capstone.

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1. Fair enough. Caster level is now equal to Stormlord level, using Strength as the casting stat.
2. As for the damage buff to inspiring presence, that's a typo and I've taken care of it (the damage buff is now granted at all levels). I'll make it a morale bonus now which is fair. The extra HD only grant HP, and I've clarified that.
3. Lightning shield DC will be changed. And yes, it activates against all melee attacks that hit the Stormlord.
4. Not changing the stat on Tempest's Challenge. Just no. Lix has already said that this is a physical class, and I don't intend to repeat what she's already said. As for the action and the tags, fair enough, taken care of.
5. Hand of Justice DC changed.
6. Thanks. :) It was the last ability to be added.
7. Well, the Stormlord already gets 5 + Con Modifier Electricity resistance from Lightning Shield. I'm glad you like it though.

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Originally Posted by Dralnu

Level 1 is way too frontloaded and powerful. This is problematic in regards to dips and low-level play. At level 1 with full BAB, d12 hp, any armor, TWF and Oversized TWF for free, +1d6 damage on all attacks, and 1 free exotic weapon, you're noticeably outclassing Warblades, even making Wizards blush. I recommend distributing some abilities throughout the first few levels.

Inspiring Presence /lol's at Bards, but I guess that's ok. Maybe bring it more in line with bards?



Must specify. You mean he gets none of the attack / damage / etc bonuses but fear immunity?

Stombolt:
You should specify that it's a standard action. Also, put the Ex / Sp / Su tags on your abilities.

Tempest's Challenge:
A free action Save-or-Die per round against casters and people who would have to wade through horrible things to get to you? Ummm...

Go look at the Knight class in PHB2. They do this ability, except it's more balanced. I'd use it as a starting point.


Rest of it looks good. Very cool class!

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1. Understood, I can see where you're coming from. Giant's Grip has been moved to Level 2. Considering doing the same with Lie Detector, but most likely not.
2. Eh, I'm kind of happy with Inspiring Presnce as is, but thanks for the feedback.
3. Specified now. The Stormlord only gets the Fear immunity from Inspiring Presence.
4. Tempest's Challenge is now a swift-action, and it's actual effect takes place on the target's next action. Still, I have no personal way of getting access to PHB2 unless there's a PDF available. So any ideas you could give me on balancing it any further would be alright.

Will answer more questions in a future post.

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Originally Posted by Fera Tian

There is already a prestige class called Stormlord from the Complete Divine handbook. This class looks ridiculously over powered though.

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You have your opinion and I have mine, let's not get into an argument please (or alternatively, send me a PM and we'll discuss this like adults).

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Originally Posted by Pyromancer999

Not bad, for a melee type.

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Thanks. :smallsmile:

This class is pretty obvious based off paladin, but the mechanics indicate a warblade mixed with a scout, replacing skirm with thunder.
WB + Scout, Pal Reference == HD10

Lie Detector isn't a lie detector, it's telepathy. A modified Zone of Truth would fit better if you want an anti-lie ability, and as Pal2 spell it works nice as the core comparison.

I'm really liking the flavor of creating a line of electricity between the 2 metal weapons, om nom nom. :O DELICIOUS.

Inspiring presence? Storm Lord is a full BAB, compare this class feature to the Marshal to find a benchmark on how to ratio the effect per level.

Other than that, pretty solid! Find a picture?

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Originally Posted by Hanuman

This class is pretty obvious based off paladin, but the mechanics indicate a warblade mixed with a scout, replacing skirm with thunder.
WB + Scout, Pal Reference == HD10

Lie Detector isn't a lie detector, it's telepathy. A modified Zone of Truth would fit better if you want an anti-lie ability, and as Pal2 spell it works nice as the core comparison.

I'm really liking the flavor of creating a line of electricity between the 2 metal weapons, om nom nom. :O DELICIOUS.

Inspiring presence? Storm Lord is a full BAB, compare this class feature to the Marshal to find a benchmark on how to ratio the effect per level.

Other than that, pretty solid! Find a picture?

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Actually, it's not based off of Paladin at all, if anything, it's based off of the Mountain King hero in Warcraft III. The HD is staying at d12 because I consider this guy to be a tanky master of dual wielding, not a Paladin. Because to be honest, Paladin never once crossed my mind while this was being designed. Police Officer did (hence the justice aspect), but not Paladin.

As for Lie Detector, it's there because I felt that 1. It needed an ability beyond combat, and 2. It fits fine with the idea of electricity and justice in a neat little package. I do see your point, but Zone of Truth (even modified) just feels wrong to me as opposed to the Detect Thoughts SLA, I suppose I could change it to Mind Reader or something like that rather than Lie Detector.

The Stormlord gets no personal benefit from his Inspiring Presence other than immunity to fear. It's there to help other members of the party in and out of combat, at Level 14, it grants:
+4 bonus to all attack rolls, damage rolls, saves and skill checks, are immune to fear, gain +2HD (d10) and a +4 dodge bonus to AC.
So, 11 HP, +4 AB, AC, Damage, Saves and Skill Checks. Doesn't seem like a fat lot to me, but maybe my perception is buggy. Albeit that's at a permanent duration. So perhaps I could make it a brief flare of inspiration from the Stormlord's presence that can be used X times a day. Would that be something you'd recommend?

Thanks for the input anyway, and I'm glad you like it. As for pictures, gimme a second to google search and I'll add it in on the next edit. :)

Tempest's Challenge has been altered for balance reasons.

Tempest's Challenge (Mind-affecting, Sonic, Language-Dependent, Ex): Once per round, as a swift action, the Stormlord may issue a challenge to one enemy within 100ft who can hear the Stormlord, forcing that enemy to make a Will Save (DC 10 + ½ Stormlord level + Stormlord's Strength bonus)
If the enemy fails that Will Save, on their next action, the enemy must target the Stormlord with an available form of attack or harmful effect (i.e. damaging spell or a debuff spell). If the the target it out of range to use any available options, then they must move within range before making the "attack action". If the target has multiple available 'attack' options, then they get to choose which one they use.
The taunt lasts for one round (the target behaves normally next round), but can be reapplied next round (Reapplying the taunt on the same target imposes a -2 penalty to the DC).

So, instead of it forcing a melee attack, it forces a harmful action against the Stormlord. Making it less powerful against Casters and Archers, as it's less likely to pull them through nasty stuff.
(examples will not be included in the main post)
Example 1:
Grim Thunderbeard uses Tempest's Challenge on a Troll 30ft away. Since the Troll is out of range to use its Claw attack, it has to move 30ft towards the Stormlord, and then attacks using a single Claw attack.

Example 2:
Grim Thunderbeard uses Tempest's Challenge on an enemy Rogue with a Throwing Dagger 30ft away, the Rogue fails his save, and can then choose to either move 20ft to throw his dagger at Thunderbeard, or move 30ft and make a melee combat attack.

Example 3:
Thunderbeard uses Tempest's Challenge on an enemy Wizard adjacent to him, the Wizard fails their save and has the choice to do one of the following as the "taunted attack": Fireball or Touch of Idiocy. Deciding that he would like to avoid the explosion of a Fireball, the Wizard casts Touch of Idiocy on Grim Thunderbeard.

That sounds fair overall I think. The original idea of the taunt was to combo it in with Lightning Shield to make that more effective, but considering the initial top-end damage for that was 3d8 (on any melee attack) and now it's 20d10 (on hit), well, it seems a little unbalanced to me now. Besides, these changes stop casters and archers getting dragged through set-up Cloudkills and Prismatic Spheres, which I guess was the biggest balance worry for most.

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Originally Posted by Fredaintdead

Actually, it's not based off of Paladin at all, if anything, it's based off of the Mountain King hero in Warcraft III. The HD is staying at d12 because I consider this guy to be a tanky master of dual wielding, not a Paladin. Because to be honest, Paladin never once crossed my mind while this was being designed. Police Officer did (hence the justice aspect), but not Paladin.

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Of course it's not flavor based off paladin, but for making the mechanics of any homebrew class you have to start with an established reference.

If I understand your reference you actually mean it to be more based off Barbarian, which means low saves, high HD, max BAB and 4SKP.

What can we tell about your class?
HD12
Saves 2 good
SKP4
BestBAB
Skirm (Elemental, no movement required)

Let's start at HD, 12 indicates 1 good save, that's the standard balance (for most HD12 classes).
4 skillpoints and full BAB is fair, and good for this flavor, it's aligned with barbarian.
The skirm implies it's of a lower HD, you could make it HD10 and raise one of the saves.

The marshal ability is interesting but marshals are HD8, bards even lower.

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Originally Posted by Fredaintdead

As for Lie Detector, it's there because I felt that 1. It needed an ability beyond combat, and 2. It fits fine with the idea of electricity and justice in a neat little package. I do see your point, but Zone of Truth (even modified) just feels wrong to me as opposed to the Detect Thoughts SLA, I suppose I could change it to Mind Reader or something like that rather than Lie Detector.

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It really depends on if you want your Storm Lord players using the ability as a subtle and sneaky power or a commanding and dominating force. You could make detect throughts altered to act as a supernatural bonus to Sense Motive, or whatever, but its all on flavor.

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The Stormlord gets no personal benefit from his Inspiring Presence other than immunity to fear. It's there to help other members of the party in and out of combat, at Level 14, it grants:
+4 bonus to all attack rolls, damage rolls, saves and skill checks, are immune to fear, gain +2HD (d10) and a +4 dodge bonus to AC.
So, 11 HP, +4 AB, AC, Damage, Saves and Skill Checks. Doesn't seem like a fat lot to me, but maybe my perception is buggy. Albeit that's at a permanent duration. So perhaps I could make it a brief flare of inspiration from the Stormlord's presence that can be used X times a day. Would that be something you'd recommend?

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A fat lot compared to what? Marshal is d8 and has this rate:
Minor (+1/Cha)
Major (+1/7level (+1)

Level 14 is the +3 mark for marshal so this'll be a favorable comparison.
Storm Rider14 has:
2 Simultaneous Major Auras
Several Minor Auras
These auras assume a mashal of 20th level with 18 charisma.

I think you're starting with a flawed assumption here. IIRC, Barbarian is tier what, 4? 5? What I'm saying is they kinda suck.
This is aimed at 3ish, it SHOULD be explicitly better.

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Originally Posted by Hanuman

Of course it's not flavor based off paladin, but for making the mechanics of any homebrew class you have to start with an established reference.

If I understand your reference you actually mean it to be more based off Barbarian, which means low saves, high HD, max BAB and 4SKP.

What can we tell about your class?
HD12
Saves 2 good
SKP4
BestBAB
Skirm (Elemental, no movement required)

Let's start at HD, 12 indicates 1 good save, that's the standard balance (for most HD12 classes).
4 skillpoints and full BAB is fair, and good for this flavor, it's aligned with barbarian.
The skirm implies it's of a lower HD, you could make it HD10 and raise one of the saves.

The marshal ability is interesting but marshals are HD8, bards even lower.


It really depends on if you want your Storm Lord players using the ability as a subtle and sneaky power or a commanding and dominating force. You could make detect throughts altered to act as a supernatural bonus to Sense Motive, or whatever, but its all on flavor.


A fat lot compared to what? Marshal is d8 and has this rate:
Minor (+1/Cha)
Major (+1/7level (+1)

Level 14 is the +3 mark for marshal so this'll be a favorable comparison.
Storm Rider14 has:
2 Simultaneous Major Auras
Several Minor Auras
These auras assume a mashal of 20th level with 18 charisma.

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I did not think of any other classes for any reference of any kind when I made this. I had an idea, and added stuff in for it that I thought seemed cool. Sure, you can identify elements of other classes with it. Inspiring Presence looks like Bardic Music, Thunderstrike looks like Smite Evil, Mountain Emperor functions like rage in a way, he has full BAB and d12 HD, etc, etc, it's got the Two-Weapon fighting bonus feats just like Rangers, etc, etc, but in the end, I'd like to think that on a conscious level, this was an original class. There was no BASIS for mechanics. I went with dual-wielding and lightning and ran with them.
You are closer however by saying Barbarian, but Lix is right in saying that this isn't designed to be "as good as" Barbarian and Marshall in Tier 4, it's designed to be sitting comfortably in Tier 3.
Besides, you keep comparing Inspiring Presence to Marshall auras, when it's really more like bardic music, hence my suggestion to make it an activated ability for X rounds per day, or X rounds per use X times per day.

As for Lie Detector, well, I think it's staying the same. I'll change the name to Thought Detector or Electromagnetic Affinity.

Yeah, I wouldn't dream of comparing this to Paladin or Marshall. Why would anyone base a class of those unless it's a fix? No, this is more comparable to a Crusader, and its abilities *about*match up with maneuvers. Edit: In fact, it wouldn't be amiss to give it some sort of delayed maneuver progression from Diamond Mind, Devoted Spirit and Tiger Claw.

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Originally Posted by mootoall

Yeah, I wouldn't dream of comparing this to Paladin or Marshall. Why would anyone base a class of those unless it's a fix? No, this is more comparable to a Crusader, and its abilities *about*match up with maneuvers. Edit: In fact, it wouldn't be amiss to give it some sort of delayed maneuver progression from Diamond Mind, Devoted Spirit and Tiger Claw.

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My idea was to make a viable melee class without maneuvers. And I'm glad I succeeded in making one that doesn't specifically need them to succeed. :smallsmile:
And thanks. :smallsmile:

Welllllll, if I were optimizing this I'd probably slap some TC maneuvers on with Martial Study, but yeah, it doesn't need it as is.

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Originally Posted by mootoall

Welllllll, if I were optimizing this I'd probably slap some TC maneuvers on with Martial Study, but yeah, it doesn't need it as is.

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*a robot appears* MISSION COMPLETE!

Well, I'd leave that up to player and DM discretion, but adding in maneuevers would be fine to me. Just don't ask me to add it in myself (I'm not ToB's biggest fan, but I do appreciate the power boost it gives the martial classes). :smallsmile:

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Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

I think you're starting with a flawed assumption here. IIRC, Barbarian is tier what, 4? 5? What I'm saying is they kinda suck.
This is aimed at 3ish, it SHOULD be explicitly better.

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Tier 4: Capable of doing one thing quite well, but often useless when encounters require other areas of expertise, or capable of doing many things to a reasonable degree of competance without truly shining.

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Are you starting with a flawed assumption that a non maneuver non cast non skillpoint HD12 full BAB class that revolves around hitting people with 2 lightning weapons is not a one-track build? :smallsmile:

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Originally Posted by Fredaintdead

I did not think of any other classes for any reference of any kind when I made this. I had an idea, and added stuff in for it that I thought seemed cool. Sure, you can identify elements of other classes with it. Inspiring Presence looks like Bardic Music, Thunderstrike looks like Smite Evil, Mountain Emperor functions like rage in a way, he has full BAB and d12 HD, etc, etc, it's got the Two-Weapon fighting bonus feats just like Rangers, etc, etc, but in the end, I'd like to think that on a conscious level, this was an original class. There was no BASIS for mechanics. I went with dual-wielding and lightning and ran with them.
You are closer however by saying Barbarian, but Lix is right in saying that this isn't designed to be "as good as" Barbarian and Marshall in Tier 4, it's designed to be sitting comfortably in Tier 3.
Besides, you keep comparing Inspiring Presence to Marshall auras, when it's really more like bardic music, hence my suggestion to make it an activated ability for X rounds per day, or X rounds per use X times per day.

As for Lie Detector, well, I think it's staying the same. I'll change the name to Thought Detector or Electromagnetic Affinity.

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Well Thunderstrike probably fits skirmish best, as it's a spammed effect.

Bardic music without resorting to specific powergaming builds does not actually grant anything close to what you suggested, and giving it that will not raise it's tier capacity. Tier is designed to measure the number of tasks it doesn't fail at and Marshal does not fail at it's role, it just has a limited number of them.

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Originally Posted by mootoall

Yeah, I wouldn't dream of comparing this to Paladin or Marshall. Why would anyone base a class of those unless it's a fix? No, this is more comparable to a Crusader, and its abilities *about*match up with maneuvers. Edit: In fact, it wouldn't be amiss to give it some sort of delayed maneuver progression from Diamond Mind, Devoted Spirit and Tiger Claw.

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I'm not saying marshal isn't lacking, it does need a few more tricks to raise its utility to T3.
I'm saying that adding several times the power to an existing ability does not balance a class, if it did then balancing the monk out of T5 would be as simple as giving it a +5 to attack and tripling it's damage.

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Originally Posted by Hanuman

Are you starting with a flawed assumption that a non maneuver non cast non skillpoint HD12 full BAB class that revolves around hitting people with 2 lightning weapons is not a one-track build? :smallsmile:

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That's why it has detect thoughts and inspiring presence. So it can do things other than hit.

You're making an argument that it's tier 4 cause it does nothing but fight, and then another argument that inspiring presence doesn't boost it just by being stronger than a marshal. Which it doesn't. It would boost it by not being a way to hit things, but to help others do so.

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Originally Posted by Hanuman

Are you starting with a flawed assumption that a non maneuver non cast non skillpoint HD12 full BAB class that revolves around hitting people with 2 lightning weapons is not a one-track build? :smallsmile:


Well Thunderstrike probably fits skirmish best, as it's a spammed effect.

Bardic music without resorting to specific powergaming builds does not actually grant anything close to what you suggested, and giving it that will not raise it's tier capacity. Tier is designed to measure the number of tasks it doesn't fail at and Marshal does not fail at it's role, it just has a limited number of them.


I'm not saying marshal isn't lacking, it does need a few more tricks to raise its utility to T3.
I'm saying that adding several times the power to an existing ability does not balance a class, if it did then balancing the monk out of T5 would be as simple as giving it a +5 to attack and tripling it's damage.

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The initial idea was to add more damage, simply because dual-wield dealt a loss less damage than the Two-handed weapon alternative. However, there are more features to Stormlord than just attack damage when you look at it.
This class can: Attack in melee, move rather quickly around the battlefield in a pinch (Wrath of Titanus), avert attacks from party members (Tempest's Challenge), AoE Stun and control the battlefield to an extent (Hand of Justice).

Inspiring Presence is there to give an out of combat benefit and an in-combat benefit at the same time, and as both me and Lix have said, it's there to help the rest of the party. So rather than continue this back-and-forth, what do you think would make this ability balanced? Just tell me.

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Originally Posted by Lix Lorn

That's why it has detect thoughts and inspiring presence. So it can do things other than hit.

You're making an argument that it's tier 4 cause it does nothing but fight, and then another argument that inspiring presence doesn't boost it just by being stronger than a marshal. Which it doesn't. It would boost it by not being a way to hit things, but to help others do so.

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Allies gain a +2 bonus to all attack rolls, damage rolls, saves and skill checks, and are immune to fear.

Ok, assuming pointbuy and a melee marshal, pointbuy is going to take a lot away from combat with the cha--

It also doesn't allow both attack and damage, and all saves and attribute skill checks are separated into nonstackable bonuses.

Though now that I re-read I thought the minor aura effects were STR based and the major effects fixed to level.

The bonus for the minor aura effects, individually aren't too bad but together (10 minor auras) is just a biiiit much, especially if you have a pixie marshal cohort double-boosting the effects. :smallsmile:

As for granting to yourself vs. others... I think boosting others is far more powerful, thats the difference between a spell and a mass spell on all your other team mates.

This class has: battlefield control, damage potential, survivability, buffing and out of combat utility, without breaking the game. Just like the Warblade and Crusader. Fits the bill if you ask me!