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Speaking of rilmani - if Bill is True Neutral because he doesn't really care about ethics or morality, while Ted is True Neutral because he cares and wants to actively aid cosmic Balance... do they both have similar experiences after dying? They both become regular petitioners/rilmani/something? Or does the fact that they're the same alignment for opposite reasons count for something on the Outlands? This is assuming they don't worship any gods, and they don't live in Realmspace.
I'd imagine Vecna would test for how much of a pushover you were. He does not like independent thinkers anymore. Given the nature of the character, I doubt Vecna would throw any minions at all; it would be utterly pointless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcdt2
They both end up trapped in the Gray, where they slowly decay as their souls find neither solace nor escape. Cause they're from Athas. :smallamused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Werephilosopher
Nah, they both end up on the Outlands. No reason they can't both eventually become rilmani, but hey, not everybody does.
For each of the following categories, which member is most likely to use the phrase "Nothing will happen to you... ever" as a threat?
- Unique fiend
- Type of non-unique fiend (such as vrock or arcanaloth)
- General type of undead (such as wraith, wight, or lich)
That's not a really fiend kind of threat. Demogorgon, I gueeeeessss? He does toss people into the Wells...Quote:
Originally Posted by enderlord99
So did takhisis just see tiamat one day hanging out in baator and say she looks cool I'm going to steal how she looks and she can't do anything about it because I'm a greater goddess so ha and Paladine took bahamut cause opposites,is there any canon indicating otherwise?
How well can Gods 'claim' areas outside of their Divine Realms. Like... a Pantheon wants a 'neutral meeting ground' somewhere in the Outlands; can they carve out a place that is 'theirs' without too much difficulty? How secure would such a place be (compared to their own Divine Realms VS a random chunk of Outer Planes)?
We're not really clear on why she did that except that it's scary and dragons were the first creatures to come into existence; they might have deliberately chosen to appear like grandiose, godly dragons for that reason. Certainly both Takhisis and Paladine have a lot of forms, names, aliases etc. so it's not as if either of them is just "knockoff Tiamat" or "knockoff Bahamut." Both may also have found inspiration in the fact that the two dragon gods are classic ancient wardens on their respective planes, Bahamut overseeing the lower heavens of Celestia and Tiamat guarding the main gate from Avernus down to Dis.Quote:
Originally Posted by animevacker1045
Well, I mean, if you've got power and minions, you can muscle your way around, but ultimately the question is who are or will you be confronting? There are definitely powers and pantheons that have set up shop on the Outlands largely uncontested. Obviously one's own divine realm remains the superior choice from a security standpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naanomi
This isn't supported by canon: takhisis and paladine were re-skinned tiamat and bahamut for the dragonlance setting. In fact, the names of those two gods in the city of ishtar from one of the old 2nd edition sourcebooks were tiamat and bahamut. What happened however, is that krynn became a weird experimental ground near the end of TSR. They imploded the system with the authorship of dragons of summer flame and then when dnd rights changed hands, they had synthesize all those game worlds into a semi-cohesive system. Because krynn had so many special rules (no-orcs, no planar travel (except for lord soth apparently), no gold etc.) they decided to keep tiamat and bahamut separate. At least, that is the impression that I got.Quote:
Originally Posted by animevacker1045
So, I've been consulting the Mimir, and found something about Quasielemental planes. Is this fanon or canon?
I've been thinking about your posts chronicling the Beastlands, which were awesome by the way, and I've been interested in the Mortai. I've looked them up in the Monstrous Compendium Outer Planes, but I was hoping to find out more.
Are the Mortai found on all three levels of the Beastlands?
If so, can they and would they move from one level to another?
Are they found in other planes?
You said in a previous question about them that they might have something to do with the ban on magical flight in the Beastlands, that this meant they would probably shut down people violating their airspace, and that they could cause air and weather magic to fail. These three things are the parts that make me want to use them in my game, but they aren't in their old monster entry. Where did this come from? Are they in another book or adventure you could point me towards?
I'd be interested in your thoughts about them too. I saw that you used them a bit in some posts from 2008... I'm definitely hoping to work up a better mental image than a zappy cloud bard!
Fanon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurai
Too bad, that's basically the source on them. :smalltongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronk
Presumably.Quote:
Are the Mortai found on all three levels of the Beastlands?
Unknown. Probably some would.Quote:
If so, can they and would they move from one level to another?
No.Quote:
Are they found in other planes?
Yes, they're theory-type fluff elements presented in another Planescape book, hence "might." What I said is all that was there. It's merely a plot hook for you to expand on.Quote:
You said in a previous question about them that they might have something to do with the ban on magical flight in the Beastlands, that this meant they would probably shut down people violating their airspace, and that they could cause air and weather magic to fail. These three things are the parts that make me want to use them in my game, but they aren't in their old monster entry.
They're giant faces that appear in equally giant clouds. "Bard" is not a word I would use to describe them. What thoughts were you looking for, specifically?Quote:
I'd be interested in your thoughts about them too. I saw that you used them a bit in some posts from 2008... I'm definitely hoping to work up a better mental image than a zappy cloud bard!
Thanks for the info! The bard thing... without knowing their background, they look a lot like chatty gossip hounds that like people and can know anything, sort of like bardic knowledge, only better. With their background, they look a lot more ominous.Quote:
Originally Posted by afroakuma
I've used the Beastlands in my game already, and by happy chance I haven't contradicted the flight ban despite not realizing that was a thing at the time. However, I'm looking ahead and I'm going to be hiding plot elements on moons in the plane's sky. I want to introduce the Mortai, then have them be offended that the PCs will be in their sky and get in their way. I also want to misdirect the players, so that they might try for the visible moons on the night level when they really need to find a non-visible moon on the day level. In that case, if the Mortai communicate with each other from different levels (through magic or travel) the locals might be forewarned.
What I'm looking for in particular are ideas about what they can do to tap into and extend the Beastland's natural flight ban to natural fliers, and perhaps augment it to a dimensional lock for a more harrowing experience. At the very least the players can be followed up for five miles of ligtning strikes.
I don't know, should I just go with the 'perhaps they're quasi deity's' idea? In your Beastland description, air and weather magic is banned, but presumably not for the Mortai, since that's their thing, so that might be a connection. Is there any Afrocannon surrounding these guys?
Did the Temporal Prime come into existence with the current multiverse, or does it transcend' it to exist before (and after?).
Like... Can one at least in theory follow the LeShay timeline back into the old multiverse? Or could a terrifying something from that previous creation time-surf forward to the 'present reality'?
I don't know if this has ever been mentioned, but, how do the rules/covenant against direct divine intervention that is in effect in worlds like Oerth and others apply to Demiplanes?
If Lolth is pissed with a wizard but she can't directly kill him because of rules, can she wait until he's exploring a Demiplane and ambush him there?
What about Inner, Outer and Transitional Planes? Can a pissed god ambush a mortal when said mortal is touring the Plane of Elemental Air or the Astral?
Where do the Vrill sit in relation to the other True Neutral Outsiders? I'd never even heard of these guys until the other day...
Is there any location in the Abyss where the armies of natives are mindlessly fighting an slaying each other?. I mean, not because they are serving the schemes of some Archfiend or evil deity, just going crazy and killing each other, kind of like evil Ysgard?
That doesn't sound like a thing the plane would do, given, you know... bats. Birds. Bugs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronk
Nope.Quote:
Is there any Afrocannon surrounding these guys?
We have no metric for knowing. It's like asking "how long is long" without providing the requisite context. Temporal Prime does not have a timeline of its own, or if it does such a timeline has never been discovered and would likely be extraordinarily dangerous to even approach, let alone attempt to travel. Given its properties, I'm inclined to say it does not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naanomi
Certain timelines of sufficient age become near-impossible to navigate beyond certain relatively proximate time jumps, owing to how any contact with them at all at a certain point is likely to be so immensely disruptive as to have effects on a scale that could severely damage multiversal reality. I would expect that the timelines of the leShay demonstrate this property. Fortunately for the present multiverse, nothing so terrifying and antediluvian has yet demonstrated the capacity to enter Temporal Prime safely, let alone to navigate timestreams.Quote:
Like... Can one at least in theory follow the LeShay timeline back into the old multiverse? Or could a terrifying something from that previous creation time-surf forward to the 'present reality'?
Yet.
We don't know, but the long and the short of it is that at the end of the day, gods just don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clistenes
They don't. The vrill and the stellar devas are a poor incompetent author's attempt to do some space alien elements using Outsider as a creature type, which is why stellar devas are celestials... who don't match up with what celestials are or do. We don't know what plane the vrill are from, but chances are it's either the Ethereal, the Astral or (most likely) the Outlands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thurbane
I would expect that there would have to be. Likely many, many, many more than one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clistenes
Can a weaker deity hide its Godly Realm from another of higher rank? For example, Kyuss hiding his Godly Realm from Pelor?
A weaker deity can't hide from the Remote Sensing or Portafolio Sense of a stronger one, but those only apply to places under the purview of the other deity (the Planes where it's worshipped or where it has influence), and I would expect that the Godly Realm of a god is under its exclusive purview.
Meaning that nothing in Kyuss's Godly Realm would belong to Pelor's purview and the latter wouldn't be able to perceive it or anything inside it.
As for regular spells, even mortals can block those.
So, am I right? Could a Demigod hide the location of its Godly Realm from a Greater God?
I think Vecna would try to kill that monstruosity before it kills him and steals his job...:smalltongue: I mean, that thing must be around CR 38, and and even Vecna was just CR 42 before becoming a deity...and I dread to think what kind of overpowered build your player has brewed (Cerebremancer, maybe?).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcdt2
Hell, if you have allowed him Epic Spellcasting he may already be able to kill Vecna...
What have you been throwing at him until now? Abominations? Epic Dragons? Archfiends? Chuck Norris?
Does the Void have a place in the Great Wheel cosmology?
From conventional divine sensing? Sure, but I'd expect a god strong enough can devise measures to defeat such occlusions if necessary, at least to the point of locating the realm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clistenes
Yup. What specifically it is, we can't be sure, but odds are good that it's some form of intraelemental medium.Quote:
Originally Posted by Werephilosopher
Is there some sort of a greater power (god, demon, or otherwise) that is related to (or would benefit from) turning a HUGE quantity of the population into Wights? I'm just curious. I had an idea for a campaign, but I need a really powerful guy who would actually want to have Wights everywhere. And I can't find any that would.
Is there any particular faction in the Spelljammer setting that would be overly concerned about the introduction of magical mecha to the spaceways?
Can a Demon Lord use the Morphic trait of the Abyssal Layer it controls to make the terrain rich in gems and precious metals? (same for Baator's Archdukes).
Admittedly, it has been difficult attempting to find any real challenges for him. He's actually been relatively tame in his build; no epic casting whatsoever, abjuration and psychokinesis specialist. His biggest abuses have been temporal; he found and utilized a few fast-time planes. He ended up taking this epic prestige class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clistenes
I've been throwing NPCs at him mostly, with levels in other epic PrC's from the homebrew project his class came from. 9 Drow Matriarchs and Lords, a few epic dragons, an atropal, a fallen archangel.
That said, after speaking with my player he has decided that Vecna is a poor choice of target. Instead, he's decided to try and seek out someone to teach him how to steal divine power. To that end, he wants to try and make a deal with an archdevil. I figure Bel is the most likely to make a deal if he thinks the PC could help tip the balance of the Blood War in Hell's favor. Since the PC is actually from a different cosmology and traveled here via the Shadow Plane, he's a bit of a wild card when it comes to Great Wheel politics, and virtually unknown. As such, he could potentially make a sneak attack against certain (non-deific) entities. I was thinking that he should attempt to redirect the flow of artifacts and weapons that the Upper Planes sometimes send to the Lower in order to keep the Blood War going. Is there any information on which entities are generally responsible for that sort of thing, or is it vague on that point? In the latter case, would it be safe to say that Morwel, The Queen of Stars, would/could be involved, or at least have a store of powerful artifacts she keeps out of reach of Evil? I ask because based on her stats, I think with a little reworking, her and her consorts could make a fun encounter against him. Thoughts?
It was an initiative of Koe, an Asura guy who lives in Sigil. The other Asuras didn't like his idea, so he left the host and moved to Sigil, where he sook like-minded folk to put his plan into motion. He is in Uncaged: Faces of Sigil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcdt2
It's funny, because the Asuras are chaotic, rogue Archons, and that guy is a rogue Asura in turn, so he's like a double rebel.
I think it was later said that other good factions (mostly Powers) do the same.
Well, in the general sense, anyone whose portfolio involves undeath would stand to profit, conceivably. Orcus, for instance. There is no god of wights, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ephemeral_Being
I would imagine most factions would take notice of that. Especially given that elves were using "mecha" in the Second Unhuman Wars.Quote:
Originally Posted by unseenmage
Yes and no. The traits of the plane that would infuse such materials would likely render them useless for the general magical purposes to which such materials are often applied. Not to mention attempts to forcibly emulate them would involve more time and power expenditure to radically alter the conventional building blocks of the layer and reconstitute far more complex components. Now the corollary to that is: it has been done. Baatorian greensteel, for instance, is a valuable metal mined from infernal layers. Many other valuable treasures lurk deep in the soil of the Lower Planes, if one has the means and the courage to pursue them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clistenes
At that level, nobody's "virtually unknown."Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcdt2
There is not.Quote:
Is there any information on which entities are generally responsible for that sort of thing,
One would expect so of any celestial paragon.Quote:
would it be safe to say that Morwel, The Queen of Stars... or at least have a store of powerful artifacts she keeps out of reach of Evil?
In previous incarnations of this thread, you've been rather clear on the fact that (A) it's impossible for phlogiston to enter a crystal sphere, naturally or otherwise, and (B) you cannot teleport or plane shift into the phlogiston. However, I just finished the Cloakmaster Cycle, and in the last book,
Spoiler: In case anyone ever wants to read the Cloakmaster Cycle un-spoiledit's revealed that the Broken Sphere was broken by the phlogiston getting inside:
...and at one point when the Fool's phylactery is broken his glabrezu patron Mowg opens up a gate into the Spelljammer while it's in the phlogiston:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ultimate Helm, ch.31
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ultimate Helm, ch.32
So, were those one-off things because the Spelljammer is special (and its insides don't count as being in the phlogiston or something), or rules-breaking plot contrivances, or something else?
Really? He's only been in the Great Wheel for about 5 minutes (after traveling from a cosmology which has only been connected to Shadow for about a year) and has done literally nothing yet except write down what his surroundings look like in his journal. I'm certain there are entities which are aware of his presence, even his motivation and powers, but there's no way that information could have spread quickly enough that he's a well-known entity.Quote:
Originally Posted by afroakuma
Quote:
There is not.
Unfortunate there aren't any details, but not surprising. Do you have any suggestions as to what artifacts Morwel or any other celestial paragons might have, specifically? Based off canon if possible, but purely made up is good too.Quote:
One would expect so of any celestial paragon.
Thoughts on how I, as the DM, could differentiate the mechs I intend to introduce from these past mechs so the confusion between the two by the denizens of the Spelljammer setting is minimal?Quote:
Originally Posted by afroakuma
What is the elemental plane of water like physically? Is there a natural light source? - Sunlight doesn't penetrate ocean water past about 200m irl but this is D&D so...
Is it an infinite expanse of water with no top and bottom, or is there a "sea floor" and "surface"?
If you plane shifted a ship over to the elemental plane of water, would you have a really really bad time? If you knew where some elemental air was or brought some with you somehow, could you sail around on the inside of a giant air bubble?
If you're popping over to the elemental plane of water for a quick swim, would you have to find some protection from being crushed to death by the water pressure as well as from drowning or getting eaten by a kraken?
Thanks