On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

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2014-10-28, 06:43 AM
The DeathKnight

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vemynal

As a Gay man myself. Not only do I think you handled the situation well inside the comic strip but your tweets made me want to give you a hug.

Well, i wouldn't go as far to say that it was handled well, but it is what it is. And it is a shame Rich had to splurt it out on Twitter, rather than deal with it in a more professional way.
2014-10-28, 06:52 AM
Durkoala

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Giant

The email was not sent directly to me, it was sent to Ookoodook in response to a newsletter email that they sent promoting the new book; it was part of a deliberate attempt to pressure that company into ceasing doing business with me. Ookoodook forwarded it to me. Therefore, it was the email writer who chose to bring third parties into the discussion; I simply brought more third parties in. If he wanted to have a private discussion with me, he should have, you know, started a private discussion with me.

As for why I shared the event, the part that most troubled me was not the fact that the person held such hateful views (which I will not quote here because they don't deserve to be propagated, but went quite a bit further than simply informing me of their dissatisfaction). The part that bothered me was that apparently, this person thought that I was on the same side of this issue until recently. It offended me to think that even one of my readers could think that I supported the sort of bigotry this person was spewing. I made the tweet in order to make it crystal clear to as many readers as possible my position, in the hopes that anyone else who felt the same as this guy would similarly go elsewhere for their entertainment.

EDIT: Also, my apology is actually 100% sincere. I do deeply apologize for not including LGBT representation more prominently, and I do wish that I had made more of an effort to reflect my values in the comic before now. That statement deserves to be made regardless of other considerations.

What I want to know is how this reader came to the conclusion that the man writing the material he disagrees with also disagreed with it.

Also, the twitter feed doesn't work for me.:smallconfused:
2014-10-28, 07:00 AM
oppyu

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

When mainstream media actively decides not to represent certain minorities, it becomes very easy for some people with ugly beliefs to assume that the media supports said ugly beliefs. It's not inconceivable that someone could read the first several hundred strips of OOTS and come to the conclusion that the Giant believes that representation of minorities is bogus. What with all the straight people, white people, man people, straight white people, white man people and straight white man people.

I mean damn, for the first 950 strips or so the most prominent gay character was an Always Evil incarnation of illicit sex who would seemingly sleep with anything that moves.
2014-10-28, 07:37 AM
Killer Angel

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

I'm happy with this thread, 'cause i was totally missing the tweets. :smallsmile:

That said, it's not a so big surprise: the world is (sadly) full of very biased people, no wonder one of them shares with us some common interest.
2014-10-28, 07:42 AM
Doctor West

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaggerPen

Seconded as a bisexual woman.

Breaking my lurking streak just to say I'm a straight man, but thirded anyway. :smallredface:
2014-10-28, 07:51 AM
Keltest

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by The DeathKnight

Well, i wouldn't go as far to say that it was handled well, but it is what it is. And it is a shame Rich had to splurt it out on Twitter, rather than deal with it in a more professional way.

professionalism aside, im fairly certain the point of putting it out on twitter was specifically so that Rich knows that his thoughts are out there in one form or another for people to read and understand. No reading through the comic and trying to figure it out, his thoughts are right there and quite clear. Any personal satisfaction he got from the tweets are, im sure, a secondary benefit.
2014-10-28, 08:31 AM
littlebum2002

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by The DeathKnight

Well, i wouldn't go as far to say that it was handled well, but it is what it is. And it is a shame Rich had to splurt it out on Twitter, rather than deal with it in a more professional way.

This is 2014. splurting things via Twitter IS the professional way.

Also, you guys forgot Roy's sister, who goes both ways.
2014-10-28, 10:02 AM
NerdyKris

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by oppyu

It's not inconceivable that someone could read the first several hundred strips of OOTS and come to the conclusion that the Giant believes that representation of minorities is bogus. What with all the straight people, white people, man people, straight white people, white man people and straight white man people.

Uh, the main character is black. The rest of your post I agree with. But I do think it would be a bit odd for someone to think the Giant believes representing racial minorities is bogus when 2/3rds of the Order including the main character are minorities.
2014-10-28, 10:12 AM
Kalmegil

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Giant

I made the tweet in order to make it crystal clear to as many readers as possible my position, in the hopes that anyone else who felt the same as this guy would similarly go elsewhere for their entertainment.

I hope that some such people do not go elsewhere for their entertainment, because seeing inclusion like this in entertainment they like is likely to be a factor in someone changing their views one day. Such changes happen by accretion.

(To be clear, I'm not saying the tweets were bad. Love 'em.)
2014-10-28, 10:16 AM
BannedInSchool

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Yeah, so trying to organize a boycott to blacklist from employment or forcibly silence the "opposition" is a practice I find unpleasant regardless of which side is doing it.
2014-10-28, 11:24 AM
Storm_Of_Snow

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlebum2002

Also, you guys forgot Roy's sister, who goes both ways.

Well, given her age, Julia may simply be experimenting rather than Bi-. But yes, put her on the list as well.
2014-10-28, 11:42 AM
Kornaki

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerdyKris

Uh, the main character is black. The rest of your post I agree with. But I do think it would be a bit odd for someone to think the Giant believes representing racial minorities is bogus when 2/3rds of the Order including the main character are minorities.

Are you counting dwarf, elf and halfling as racial minorities here? I am sorry to be the one to break this to you, but that does not count.
2014-10-28, 12:05 PM
Peelee

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by The DeathKnight

Well, i wouldn't go as far to say that it was handled well, but it is what it is. And it is a shame Rich had to splurt it out on Twitter, rather than deal with it in a more professional way.

How is it unprofessional? It conceals both the identity and the specific content of the email in question. The Giant only stated that an email covering a fairly generalized statement was received, and he felt that he should publicly announce his opinion on the matter for any who felt similarly (who aid also remain anonymous). None of that screams "unprofessional" to me.
2014-10-28, 12:07 PM
littlebum2002

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by BannedInSchool

Yeah, so trying to organize a boycott to blacklist from employment or forcibly silence the "opposition" is a practice I find unpleasant regardless of which side is doing it.

Self-Scrubbed
2014-10-28, 12:27 PM
Sola'lu

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Not doing anything when one sees something offending is like giving them permission to keep doing what they are doing.
2014-10-28, 12:30 PM
BannedInSchool

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlebum2002

I completely disagree.

If you don't believe in something someone else is saying, regardless of your reasons, then you have every right not to support them by buying or using their products.

And if enough people agree with you, then the person who you are objecting to has to determine if stating their opinions are worth the loss of income.

Ah, that's fine to inform people of the particular author and work so they can independently choose not to support them, but organizing a boycott of the publisher entirely and everything they publish to attempt to force them to stop publishing an author or work in particular is, oh, I dunno, crowd-sourced censorship?
2014-10-28, 12:48 PM
Pinnacle

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

EDIT: Unnessessarily aggressive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Giant

Also, my apology is actually 100% sincere. I do deeply apologize for not including LGBT representation more prominently, and I do wish that I had made more of an effort to reflect my values in the comic before now. That statement deserves to be made regardless of other considerations.

And thank you for that, sincerely.
I guess I'm just used to a lack of representation. I don't miss it when it's not there, but I'm always excited when it is.
2014-10-28, 01:16 PM
NerdyKris

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kornaki

Are you counting dwarf, elf and halfling as racial minorities here? I am sorry to be the one to break this to you, but that does not count.

Roy and Durkon are black. There are six members of the order. Also I totally meant to write 1/3rd, not 2/3rds. I can do math, I swear. :smalltongue:
2014-10-28, 01:19 PM
BannedInSchool

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinnacle

Oh dear. I'd best run out and buy some more hateful works, then. I hadn't realized not buying them was unpleasant to you.

Oi, it's the boycott of the publisher entirely to try to force them to stop publishing something because they're losing sales of everything else from other authors that they publish that seems dirty pool to me.
2014-10-28, 01:55 PM
Bulldog Psion

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kornaki

Are you counting dwarf, elf and halfling as racial minorities here? I am sorry to be the one to break this to you, but that does not count.

Durkon's kind of a medium brown. He's definitely not a white guy.

Anyway, though I think that the Giant is occasionally rather thin-skinned and grouchy about stuff that might better be laughed off or ignored, in this case, I'm glad to see those tweets. The troglodyte who communicated with him deserved every bit of snark that could be tossed his/her way, and then some.

So -- let me say that a straight white guy salutes the Giant for his enlightened approach to inclusion of gay characters and his probable intention to add more in the future. Bravo! :smallcool:
2014-10-28, 02:25 PM
Zmeoaice

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinnacle

If you're replacing a minority group with a stance or a pedophile, you've got quite an invalid comparison there.
See, I have reasons for finding things "personally disgusting," so my reactions do, in fact, have reasoning behind them. And that reasoning is not immune to analysis.
You want a rhetorical equivalent to "homosexual"? Try "heterosexual".

That's irrelevant though. What a person finds offensive doesn't need to be based in reason. These people have been indoctrinated into hating gays, so the way they feel is comparable to one's hatred of pedophiles. (Also, I'm assuming pedophile in this context is the same as child molester).

Heterosexual is not rhetorically equivalent since heterosexuals are not viewed as evil by 40% of the US population. If it makes you feel better, a more equivalent comparison would be polyamorous or incestuous characters, although I do not know if you personally would find that distasteful.
2014-10-28, 03:22 PM
littlebum2002

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Self-Scrubbed
2014-10-28, 03:35 PM
Ron Miel

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storm_Of_Snow

Well, given her age, Julia may simply be experimenting rather than Bi-. But yes, put her on the list as well.

Her remark that she goes both ways refers to her TN alignment. Sometimes she does Evil things, sometime Good, sometimes she's Lawful, other times she's Chaotic. It says nothing about her sexual preferences. All indications are that she likes boys.
2014-10-28, 03:50 PM
Pinnacle

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zmeoaice

That's irrelevant though. What a person finds offensive doesn't need to be based in reason.

You just said that the two are in no way similar.
You are correct. Stop comparing them, then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zmeoaice

If it makes you feel better, a more equivalent comparison would be polyamorous or incestuous characters, although I do not know if you personally would find that distasteful.

If it makes you feel better, a much more equivalent comparison would be heterosexual characters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlebum2002

If I was reading a webcomic that suddenly pointed out anti-LGBT views of the author, I would do the same thing. Inform the author that I would no longer be supporting them, and ask my friends to do the same.

That's not at all the same, though. It's the opposite.
2014-10-28, 03:55 PM
Ron Miel

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerdyKris

Roy and Durkon are black. There are six members of the order. Also I totally meant to write 1/3rd, not 2/3rds. I can do math, I swear. :smalltongue:

Actually, I think 2/3 is right. Elf, Dwarf and Halfling have their own lands, and are definite minorities in Human lands. Also, in many Human societies throughout history, women are denied advantages that men do. Minority isn't the correct word, but disenfranchised group might work.

Roy is possibly not a minority in his own hometown.
2014-10-28, 04:53 PM
littlebum2002

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinnacle

That's not at all the same, though. It's the opposite.

LOL point taken
2014-10-28, 05:20 PM
Soza

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrador

Anyone who'll deprive him/herself of something they once enjoyed because ~omg the gays~ deserves all the ribbing they can get.

And apparently, they didn't notice the guard in Cliffport, or Nale's experimentation! I'm not counting Sabine, because it's not confirmed that she's seduced any women. Or V, for that matter!

Sabine seemed very interested in Miko, though. (HERE)
2014-10-28, 05:22 PM
Zmeoaice

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinnacle

You just said that the two are in no way similar.
You are correct. Stop comparing them, then.

But other people do think they are similar, so it it justified to compare them to understand how they feel.

Quote:

If it makes you feel better, a much more equivalent comparison would be heterosexual characters.

No, it's not. Name one person who would quit reading a comic because it has straight characters.
2014-10-28, 06:19 PM
littlebum2002

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zmeoaice

No, it's not. Name one person who would quit reading a comic because it has straight characters.

Argumentum ad populum

Just because some people have one irrational viewpoint but no one has the opposing irrational viewpoint does not make them unequal. The amount of people who prescribe to a viewpoint is irrelevant to its legitimacy
2014-10-28, 06:22 PM
The Giant

Re: On the topic of recent tweets sent out by the Giant

Quote:

Originally Posted by oppyu

It's not inconceivable that someone could read the first several hundred strips of OOTS and come to the conclusion that the Giant believes that representation of minorities is bogus. What with all the straight people, white people, man people, straight white people, white man people and straight white man people..

I'm pretty sure the main character of this comic is black, his best friend is brown, his father is pretty much the lynchpin to the plot, and the rest of his family has played a role as well. Further, almost all of their main allies and some of their adversaries are Asian, the guy who just swooped in to save the day is Latino (as is one of the gag lawyers), the ellicit incarnation of sex you mentioned is brown, and the dwarf who sacrificed himself to stop the Snarl and the evil gnome who animated trees to kill an equally racially diverse police department were also both black. You cannot find a crowd scene in this comic with all white people.

I understand that these aren't the minorities you, personally, are concerned about. But it's more than a little disingenuous to imply that I have only ever portrayed straight white people. If you're going to criticize my representation even after I've admitted the mistake, apologized several times, and taken concrete steps to address the problem, at least do so accurately.

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