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Mounted Sneak Attack?????
okay, so I stumbled upon this very not nice PrC Crinti Shadow Marauder that grants you dimension door AND a POUNCE after ANY completion of a transportation descriptor ANYTHING! only set back is that the built in dimension door requires your mount and limited range per day, but we all know at least a few tricks to get a transportation effect...
so what im trying to figure out here is can you use a "pounce" type action from the back of a mount AND sneak attack the entire time as well.
flavor wise i was thinking have a stealthy mount with the pounce ability and then stab/smash from the mounts back with the full attack granted you from the class...
IDK, trying to find a way for this to be cool and viable. thoughts are rogue 5/ crinti shadow marauder 5/ shadow dancer 10 for a fun 20 level build that gets flanking buddies and more shadow themed jumping around with dimension door effect and other goodies...
Little help please!
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
You can backstab someone with a ballista, why shouldn't you be able to do so while mounted (or with a mount as well)? :smallbiggrin:
Seriously talking, there isn't any clause in the SA's description about mounted and/or charging sneak attacks. This means that you can charge a foe while mounted and do sneak attacks as soon as you deny his Dex bonus to AC or flank him.
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
I didn't think there was either but I'm not as rules savvy as some around here so wanted to see what others thought.
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ojayaba
okay, so I stumbled upon this very not nice PrC Crinti Shadow Marauder that grants you dimension door AND a POUNCE after ANY completion of a transportation descriptor ANYTHING! only set back is that the built in dimension door requires your mount and limited range per day, but we all know at least a few tricks to get a transportation effect...
Using Shadow Pounce doesn't require the use of your mount. It works whenever you use a [teleportation] effect. While they do get Shadow Walk (Sp) as a SLA 1/day, this isn't the only way to trigger Shadow Pounce. Notably, the Shadow Jaunt/Shadow Step/Shadow Blink maneuvers from Tome of Battle can be used to create a "Shadow-Pouncer". Use all three, and you can get three full attacks into the same round. Add some Glyph Seals (1000 GP, Magic Item Compendium) keyed your pockets with the dimension hop spell, and you can keep doing it as a free action until you run out of Glyph Seals.
You can do something similar without Shadow Pounce by teleporting 10' above your opponent's head to activate the Battle Jump feat (from Unapproachable East) and get a charge attack. Add Pounce (Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian to turn that into a full attack. Other ways to teleport:
dimension hop power (Complete Psionic, swift action)
blink shirt soulmeld (Magic of Incarnum, standard or move action)
abrupt jaunt ACF (PHBII)
anklets of translocation (1400 GP, MIC, swift action)
bolt shirt (5000 GP, MIC, move action)
The only other PrC that offers Shadow Pounce is Telfammer Shadowlord 4 (from Unapproachable East), but the entry requirements are more obtuse. Crinti Shadow Marauder actually is easier to get into and requires less feats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ojayaba
so what im trying to figure out here is can you use a "pounce" type action from the back of a mount AND sneak attack the entire time as well.
Hmmm... small-sized rider + blink dog mount + ring of blinking + Pierce Magical Concealment lets you and your mount attack as if you were invisible.
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Darrin
Using Shadow Pounce doesn't require the use of your mount. It works whenever you use a [teleportation] effect. While they do get Shadow Walk (Sp) as a SLA 1/day, this isn't the only way to trigger Shadow Pounce. Notably, the Shadow Jaunt/Shadow Step/Shadow Blink maneuvers from Tome of Battle can be used to create a "Shadow-Pouncer". Use all three, and you can get three full attacks into the same round. Add some Glyph Seals (1000 GP, Magic Item Compendium) keyed your pockets with the dimension hop spell, and you can keep doing it as a free action until you run out of Glyph Seals.
You can do something similar without Shadow Pounce by teleporting 10' above your opponent's head to activate the Battle Jump feat (from Unapproachable East) and get a charge attack. Add Pounce (Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian to turn that into a full attack. Other ways to teleport:
dimension hop power (Complete Psionic, swift action)
blink shirt soulmeld (Magic of Incarnum, standard or move action)
abrupt jaunt ACF (PHBII)
anklets of translocation (1400 GP, MIC, swift action)
bolt shirt (5000 GP, MIC, move action)
The only other PrC that offers Shadow Pounce is Telfammer Shadowlord 4 (from Unapproachable East), but the entry requirements are more obtuse. Crinti Shadow Marauder actually is easier to get into and requires less feats.
Hmmm... small-sized rider + blink dog mount + ring of blinking + Pierce Magical Concealment lets you and your mount attack as if you were invisible.
see, heres the issue for me, ToB is *shocked face* banned. so are psionics. personal dislike for halflings/small creatures as well. I know its getting picky but sadly thats how it is :(
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ojayaba
see, heres the issue for me, ToB is *shocked face* banned. so are psionics. personal dislike for halflings/small creatures as well. I know its getting picky but sadly thats how it is :(
Like the mount, Halfling isn't really necessary. Small size was just because the blink dog is medium. Presumably, if you could enlarge the blink dog, you could be medium-sized and do the synchronized ring of blinking thing.
ToB isn't entirely necessary, either. You could do:
Race: Drow or Half-Drow
Totemist 5/Crinti Shadow Marauder 5
That gets you a standard-action teleport and a move-action teleport. You can add a swift-action teleport via items (e.g., Anklet of Translocation).
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
ok, sorry if I'm being stupid, but how does totemist 5 work? not to mention it skips out on any form of sneak attack...
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ojayaba
see, heres the issue for me, ToB is *shocked face* banned. so are psionics. personal dislike for halflings/small creatures as well. I know its getting picky but sadly thats how it is :(
Then get a real DM, not a power-tripping megalomaniac. That's not a game, that's catering to one jerk's control issues.
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Answerer
Then get a real DM, not a power-tripping megalomaniac. That's not a game, that's catering to one jerk's control issues.
MY personal dislike for halflings/small creatures, not the DM's. I don't mind the lack of ToB/psionics because i don't care for them much.
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ojayaba
ok, sorry if I'm being stupid, but how does totemist 5 work? not to mention it skips out on any form of sneak attack...
Sorry... actually, Totemist 2 is all you need. With the Blink Shirt soulmeld linked to your Totem chakra, you can dimension door at will either as a standard action or a move action. Not quite sure if you can do both in the same round... (there's a "no further actions" clause in there somewhere).
Totemist 2/Rogue 3/Crinti Shadow Marauder 5/Umbral Disciple 10 would work better. This gives you 5d6 sneak attack, at-will dimension door, and always-on hide-in-plain-sight.
Magic of Incarnum can be confusing to explain, though... sounds like it might be a tough sell to either you or your DM.
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
Warlock 6 has at will teleportation and can grab hide in plain sight at lv 1 with drow of the underdark feats
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
MoI is a book that I bought years ago but never fully read...
although i have no idea what umbral disciple is...
warlock was looked at and ruled out within my debate team IRL as it would take to long to get to.
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
Keep in mind that both Totemist and Warlocks option use Dimension Door. Your turn will end after you use the abilities.
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
You can sneak attack...
...with a greatsword
or
...while mounted
or
...with a lance
or
...with a siege weapon
or
...in heavy armor
or
...while charging
or
...while pounce-charging
or TONS of things. Sneak Attack is not a guy in light armor attacking with a dagger from hiding, you know?
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Snowbluff
Keep in mind that both Totemist and Warlocks option use Dimension Door. Your turn will end after you use the abilities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiningsouth
Shadow Pounce (Ex): At 5th level, a Crinti shadow marauder
learns how to attack swiftly from the shadows. Any time she
uses an ability, spell, or effect with the teleportation descriptor
(for example, her shadow ride ability), she can execute a full
attack upon completion of the teleportation. The marauder
must have line of sight to her intended target from her original
location. Further, the spot to which she teleports must be a
place from which she can make a melee attack against the
intended target with whatever weapon she had in hand at the
beginning of her action.
the dimension door is the trigger to a full attack
blink shirt you say? *goes to read up with the gaming group*
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ojayaba
the dimension door is the trigger to a full attack
blink shirt you say? *goes to read up with the gaming group*
Yes, but you can't use Dimension Door and then use another teleport afterwards, diminishing the usefulness of the ability. Move action helps though. You can use it after a chain of my MM abused Twin Repeat Dimension Hops.
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
but you don't need the move after if you dim door within reach of them for the full attack... you dim door to within reach, sneak attack /sudden strike the crap out of them using your full attack gained from the ability and do it all over again next round...
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ojayaba
but you don't need the move after if you dim door within reach of them for the full attack... you dim door to within reach, sneak attack /sudden strike the crap out of them using your full attack gained from the ability and do it all over again next round...
You would still need a Standard action teleport that is not Dimension Door. Just a heads up.
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
why would you in the ability lets you take a full attack after any teleportation effect? as per the ability if I'm getting this right you can teleport in any way to within reach of something/one and full attack them.
Quote:
Shadow Pounce (Ex): ... Any time she
uses an ability, spell, or effect with the teleportation descriptor
(for example, her shadow ride ability), she can execute a full
attack upon completion of the teleportation. The marauder
must have line of sight to her intended target from her original
location. Further, the spot to which she teleports must be a
place from which she can make a melee attack against the
intended target with whatever weapon she had in hand at the
beginning of her action.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiningsouth
Shadow Ride (Su):A Crinti shadow ma-rauder can travel on her mount between shadows
as if by means of a dimension door spell. Such
supernatural transport must begin and end in an
area with at least some shadow. The marauder can
ride up to a total of 50 feet per Crinti shadow marauder
level per day in this way. The amount can be split up
among many rides, but rides of a distance shorter than
25 feet count as 25 feet
is the shadow ride ability that is dim door under diff name
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
Snowbluff is talking about multiple teleports and therefore multiple full-attacks.
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
Why would I do that? I'm not trying to break the ability here, just trying to make something fun and effective.
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ojayaba
Why would I do that? I'm not trying to break the ability here, just trying to make something fun and effective.
Then don't worry about the multiple teleports bit.
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Darrin
rider + blink dog mount + ring of blinking
What would keep the mount's and rider's blinking in sync? Wouldn't there be a chance of them being out of sync and the rider falling through? heh.
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fitz10019
What would keep the mount's and rider's blinking in sync? Wouldn't there be a chance of them being out of sync and the rider falling through? heh.
Arms & Equipment Guide - page 81 - 82, paragraph Blink Dog, Riding
Quote:
If a blink dog's rider wears a ring of blinking, the dog and ring attune to each other through a sympathetic magical effect so that dog and rider blink in unison.
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gorfnab
Arms & Equipment Guide - page 81 - 82, paragraph Blink Dog, Riding
now that's a funny trick to try...
I think there is an issue here :(
seems that most of my gaming group thinks that the shadow pounce ability is "broken" and have tried to convince the DM to ban it :(
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ojayaba
now that's a funny trick to try...
I think there is an issue here :(
seems that most of my gaming group thinks that the shadow pounce ability is "broken" and have tried to convince the DM to ban it :(
You should then bring a Conjurer/Incantatrix to show them what is really broken.
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gavinfoxx
You can sneak attack...
...with a greatsword
or
...while mounted
or
...with a lance
or
...with a siege weapon
or
...in heavy armor
or
...while charging
or
...while pounce-charging
or TONS of things. Sneak Attack is not a guy in light armor attacking with a dagger from hiding, you know?
If you manage to get sneak attacked by someone wearing full plating, riding a warhorse and carrying 5ft lance, you really, really need to work on your wisdom score.
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dusk Eclipse
You should then bring a Conjurer/Incantatrix to show them what is really broken.
im the only one in my group that reads the forums, so i know what "broken" and "powerful" are, but i still refuse to use those tricks to any level of that cheesyness.
I just like to have fun playing silly/fun things that have a few tricks like the odd full attack after a teleport. yes, that is a powerful ability but at the same time its no less powerful then a power attacker smashing face for 70+ a hit on a full attack or single attack.
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Re: Mounted Sneak Attack?????