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This is a really horribly evil way to initiate a fight against Pcs.
"Roll perception. Your dead."
No one's going to survive something colossal moving 7000 feet down in one round, especially when its technically a colossal hunk of iron, essentially. Not to mention the crater it'd make.
If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duboris
Good Point. Seems like featherfall would be good enough to fix its initiation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gooddragon1
Sounds really awesome.
Contingency Teleport. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Duboris
You have to wonder how paranoid your PCs are when "If a white dragon tries to divebomb me at supersonic speeds" becomes a specification for activating a Crafted Contingent Spell. Then you have to go home and rethink your life. :smallfrown:Quote:
Originally Posted by gooddragon1
Far more reasonable is "if anything threatens me."Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowbluff
I always liked that Dragon Magazine spell for dragons to fly in a straight line at 4 times normal speed. Think it had something to do with arrows.
I could have sworn there was a flaw or feat, or spell, or something that changes your mass. I would suggest taking that as well, so now he comes hurtling down like a lead dragon, rather than an iron one. Now that is an impact zone.
...And your wizard becomes the favorite toy of small children everywhere, as word spreads that yelling 'gonna throw mud pies at you, Wizard!' causes him to become fenced in by a glowing, impenetrable array of warding spells and/or teleported back to his dimensionally-locked private plane. :smallwink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Answerer
I did mean threaten in the game mechanics sense, but that may or may not be valid for contingency; the spell is hideously vague that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapak
Thrown anything doesn't threaten (ranged attacks), mud pies wouldn't threaten (not a weapon), etc.
Well now we're talking about metaphysical gaming constructs. Your wizard doesn't know what those are~!Quote:
Originally Posted by Answerer
Debatable, particularly in the case of AoOs where characters are basing their decisions based around the mechanical realities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowbluff
Yeah if played intelligently most high level monster encounters should start and end that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duboris
>:D
It's sort of like how a genius in our world probably knows a fair deal of math and science. By sorting through natural phenomena, a wizard school could get a fairly good idea of how such meta constructs work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowbluff
A PC Wizard is going to be rocking a 30+ Int score, max ranks in several Knowledge skills, and the ability to text message Gods on a whim. He knows. My sig happens to be relevant here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf
Similarly, I had a character that Shapechanged into a Very Young Polychromatic Dragon with a 720ft/round fly speed. With the Run feat and his speed boosts factored in, I worked out that he could take Run actions at about the speed of a jet liner.
Forgive me for being ignorant, but how would 15/adamantine protect the dragon from hitting the ground at over 4,4 billion newtons?
I totally want to sig this. May I please?Quote:
Originally Posted by gooddragon1
Didn't Chuck (the Ruby Knight Windicator) make it up to six times the speed of sound, or something?
I'm very uncomfortable with this idea. Just because the rules are based on six second rounds, ability scores, etc. doesn't mean that it's necessarily an aspect of the physical reality of the game world. Personally, I wouldn't let this fly at my table.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf
Are you considering that Iron Body halfs your speed? Or you are assuming that it only affects land speed?
Don't get me wrong, I saw this idea and tried to apply it to my druid and saw the spell and figured that my usual DM would apply that penalty to all kinds of movement speed.
What is the terminal velocity of an iron dragon?
Approximately magic meters/second.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teflonknight
He did, and was ridiculous. But wasn't he broken by some errata or other?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon
IIRC, they wrote an errata to explicitly prevent Chuck... and miswrote it so that it still works. Or something silly like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slipperychicken
If you're referring to the original build, I'm pretty sure the Complete Arcane errata totally destroyed the Footsteps of the Divine trick by disallowing Persisting dischargeable spells. If not, I'd like to hear this new speed record guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Answerer
I don't know how to determine the volume of a Colossal+ White Dragon, but if I could I'd probably be able to calculate his ferrous terminal velocity.
I could easily be misremembering.
Wait, Faerun or Forgotten Realms? :smallwink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Teflonknight
I'm not sure what's stopping the dragon from being scattered across a square mile after he hits though.
No, it was errata to Footsteps of the Divine that killed Chuck. Persistent Spell has always had the clause forbidding its use on dischargeable spells, but the original wording of FotD was that you could "end the spell early", or something like that, to get the 1 round mega boost. Errata changed the wording so that you could "discharge" the spell to get the mega boost.
And yes, this was most certainly specifically aimed at Chuck, because the interaction with Persistent Spell is, I'm pretty sure, the only thing in the entire game affected by this particular wording change.
Considering its a white dragon?Quote:
Originally Posted by LTwerewolf
Snow.
Can I sig this :smallbiggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by LTwerewolf
Of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Ladybug
Sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karoht
It's not for that actually, my idea was just to get him to turn upwards in 20 feet before hitting the ground just to have him break the sound barrier. The iron body spell is to keep him from blacking out. If you want to keep him alive I'd say he might need timeless body power instead and some other way to double his speed (that straight arrow movement feat i think).Quote:
Forgive me for being ignorant, but how would 15/adamantine protect the dragon from hitting the ground at over 4,4 billion newtons?
EDIT: The dragon in question could be paragon and pseudonatural which could result in 6x or 4x speed (depending on how you view it) and thus keep the iron body thing working.
As always, the answer to this problem is being undead. A Dracolich can do this once every 2d4 days if it has a decent stash of dragon corpses in its lair.Quote:
Originally Posted by LTwerewolf
Coincidentally, he possesses Frightful presence and I would DEFINITELY allow him to trigger that as he makes his dive-bomb attack.
~~~~
"A wave of dread washes over you. For a moment, it feels as if your lives are merely moments of amusement for beings who barely regard you as living things. I would ask you to make a will save, but..."
Also nicely solves the problem of blacking out if he just wanted to experiment as well as not having a penalty to movement speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doxkid
Ya know, the dragons strength score only goes up by 6. And it's body weight just multiplied by 10. I know it's not RAW, but Jesus, if I were DMing this, I'd say the dragon wouldn't be able to lug it's 80 ton ass off the ground. I know we don't slap encumbrance on wizards with iron body who logically couldn't move their own arm, but biological flight that apparently can only happen on a light load is a bit different in my mind.
I'm seeing a base fly speed of 250 feet for a white dragon (surprisingly, they have a burrow speed too). I didn't realise you could run with anything except ground movement, but it's RAW legal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#fly specifically allows it), so yeah. I'll assume the 350 base speed for being a paragon is legit.Quote:
Originally Posted by gooddragon1
A "dive" attack is essentially a charge, and is a full-round action that let's you move double your speed. However, running is also a full-round action. You can't do both in one round, unless you have some kind of action-economy buster.
Where are the rules that effectively let you double your speed when moving straight down? Since I can't find them. If they are somewhere, I'm fairly confident that "straight down" wouldn't include a vertical drop of 20 feet over a horizontal span of over 1000 feet.
Also, this "take an extra round"? From where? The past or the future?
Overall, I'm seeing 1750 feet of legitimate speed.
The flight maneuverability table on p. 92 of the rules compendium states this. It may be other places as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtagon
Using the belt of battle?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtagon
The double speed when going down is in the SRD under the rules for moving in 3 dimensions. It's also in the more rules chapter of the DMG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtagon
As for the double actions, that's from the belt of battle the dragon is wearing.
Then there's attacking via divebomb. If the dragon wants to do damage with this, he does it by simply slamming into the target as a falling object. It's not a dive attack, it's a belly flop. Otherwise, he's just doing a fly-by to freak the party out sans attacking.
Advanced Dragons
Gargantuan to Colossal: 250 to 300Quote:
Speed
When a dragon becomes Colossal, its fly speed increases by 50 feet and its maneuverability becomes clumsy. When it reaches Colossal+, its fly speed increases by another 50 feet, and its maneuverability remains clumsy. A dragon’s land speed and other special movement types (swim, burrow, and so on) do not change.
Colossal to Colossal+: 300 to 350
Now, here's what you do. Your Colossal+ Paragon Pseudonatural White Dragon (lets call him the White Comet) has some other Dragon freinds, one of the varieties with better spellcasting. These Dragon buddies setup a series of Gates in the White Comet's path, sending him through different planes of existence. The White Comet is of course buffed with spells to protect him agianst the harmful effects of the various planes, as well as his innate Spell Resistance. As long as The White Comet doesn't try to go through the plane of Earth, Water or Fire, he can make a sonic boom happen in multiple planes at once!
Why, you may ask? The same reason The White Comet exists in the first place. Because why not?
advanced colossal white dragon base speed 350 feet.
Run feat means he flies at x5 base speed as a full round action (1750 feet)
Belt of battle lets him do it all twice (3500 feet).
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040629a
If he were "just flying", he'd need to spend at least half that moving forwards (1750 feet), and could spend the other half descending (1750 x2 = 3500 feet). Total 5250 feet (875 fps, or 266.7 m/s).
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040706a
However, he can instead enter a fast freefall, and gets all his movement in a dive (7000 feet) plus 1000 feet of freefall distance (assuming he spend the previous round also dive-bombing), for 8000 feet total (1333 fps, or 406.4 m/s).
So yeah. Anything you can accelerate, I can accelerate faster :smallcool:
The only problem is whether or not white dragons have a maximum altitude, since this requires an upper ceiling of at least 12,000 feet.
Except that the lifting capacity doesn't scale linearly...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise Green Bean
798000 lbs as a light load or 399 tons. He'll be fine.
Debating about whether or not to tac on shadow template (1.5x speed) and look up that fly in a straight line speed increaser feat.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-leg...ike-arrow.html
It's not a feat, it's a spell from dragon 308 called fly like an arrow. Gives you cheetah sprint.
:D
350 (Use wish to override iron body slowdown for 1 round)
x15 sprint instead of run for 1 and run for the other
x9 (to the movespeed directly) shadow, pseudonatural, paragon templates
x2 straight down
94500 feet per round.
15750 feet per second.
Slightly more than 14 times the speed of sound (there was footsteps of the divine mentioned but that was errata'd).
Also: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189568
Use of allied gate with respect to elemental plane of air to accumulate all the necessary travel space before immediate impact.
I imagine a combat usage of this looking somewhat like this does:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kH61aqsPSE
Even vague, half efforts to boost caster level still give your footsteps of the divine a duration measurable in millennia.
(20 * 1.5^14390 = X = Wiz caster level, MFK and Ur Priest give ~3 times that, so we are at 100 * 1.5^14390 ft a second.)
You should be travelling a distance in the hundreds of digits of light years. This is, of course, just from that spell and ignoring speed factors like shadow or paragon, because I don't know how the interaction works.
Where are footsteps of the divine in the rulebooks?
You need to wait until epic? :smallconfused:Quote:
Originally Posted by gooddragon1
What boosts are you referring to, and what is MFK?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottzar
This isn't quite on topic, but I had to post it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowbluff
I clicked that link, and in a rare moment, decided to actually watch something with ponies in it. Right as the blue one starts her upward dash thing, World Ablaze by Killswitch Engage came on my WMP. It synced up pretty dang well, and the combination of metal and ponies made me lol pretty hard.
Carry on.
^ MFK = Mystic Fire Knight AFAIK
/)^3^(\Quote:
Originally Posted by MachineWraith
Actually, that sort of thing is pretty common. You have no idea how many PMVs use awesome rock tracks. Sadly, it's never enough!
Very rarely is the ground made of adamantine. Even more rarely does this state last long.Quote:
Originally Posted by LTwerewolf
If nothing else, it helps.
Absurd amounts of DR, HP, and other defensive abilities. Barring that, resurrection.Quote:
Originally Posted by LTwerewolf
Why wouldn't you be able to? Are birds unable to go faster than they do leisurely? Fish? Moles? Spiders? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtagon
Anyways, I approve of all methods by which dragons accomplish with flesh, blood, and a sprinkling of magic what it took decades of aeronautical engineering to achieve with the best of the world's scientists, a wide variety of alloys and other artificial materials, and much more than a sprinkling of money.
I can find neither citation nor refutation for it now, but I've read in the past that spiders do not (cannot?) actually run, at least by the definition used for quadrupedal and bipedal animals (i.e. a sequence of motion in which there is a step where all legs are off the ground).Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold
Based on my somewhat limited knowledge of invertebrate anatomy, it's probably (in part, at least) because spider legs are hydraulic and less dexterous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Answerer
I did find a video of a spider that basically does front-flips across the desert. Doing that, it achieves speeds about five times as fast as the fastest spider can crawl/walk/run/whatever-we're-calling-it, apparently.
Best Idea. What Maneuverability?Quote:
Originally Posted by gooddragon1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teflonknight
i'm sig-ing this, i hope no one minds :xQuote:
Originally Posted by Woodzyowl
First, read this to understand why the Draconis Supersonicus is something of an endangered species.
Now, lets see if we can give Rudolf, Harbinger of Christmas, a steady cruising speed of Mach 100 or so.
Other speed multipliersSpoiler
So if, for instance, you have multiple affects doubling your speed, you multiply them, rather than add them, together.Quote:
Originally Posted by SRD moving
Psuedonatural for 2x, of course.
Paragon for 3x.
The Horned Helm (AEG pg 133; 38,000g) for 2x speed.
The 'Rapid Wrath' (Ghostwalk, 11702g) (a 'carried' spear) for another 2x.
Shaundakul's Boots (MoF pg 165) for another 2x, but only for 5 minutes each day.
So you have 24x movement; 48x for a few minutes.
'Wind at back' (MoF spell, drd4, pg 134) doubles your overland speed for 24 hours.
'Fly like an arrow' (Dragon Magazine #308) lets you move at '10 times your normal fly speed,' but...only in a straight line, can't do anything but move, and you had to take a full move the previous round...still awesome though.
24x speed in combat, 480x overland; double that for 5 minutes/day.
Now for running:Now you can run for hours on end, meaning you can use it outside of combat. Now we're moving 120x in combat, and 2400x outside of combat (and 2x that for 5 minutes/day). We just need to boost our base movement speed a bit (I'm a bit weak, here...):SpoilerQuote:
Originally Posted by SRD actions in combat
Incidentally, the 'Calvaryman's Saddle' (Dmag 334, 8500g) gives your dragon the run and endurance feats. Alternately, the 'Panther mask (MIC pg 201, 2700g) just gives you 'run'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boots of the Wanderer MoF pg 138
SpoilerAeriel Alarcity (RoTW spell) gives +30 unnamed to speed, and +1 to manueverability.
Cloud Wings (SS 64, spell) gives +30 unnamed to speed.
Collar of umbral metamorphisis (ToM 156 22,000g) for +10 to speed from that template. (edit Its worth noting that the template itself is LA+0 for dragons. /edit )
'Air Heritage' feat (Planar handbook pg 37) for +30 unnamed
Haste or whatever (customized, slotless horseshoes of speed?) for +30 enhancement.
'improved speed' feat for +20 unnamed to flying.
Shandukal's boots for +10 unnamed.
=> +160 to speed, for a base movement speed of 510. Rudolf's tactical speed would be 120x (61200 ft/round tactical; ~7000 mph, mach 9); double that with the boots, and 20x that for his cruising speed out of combat; a single strafing breath from Rudolf would leave an 11 mile swath of Christmas cheer.
Miscellaneous thoughts / mentions:
Spoiler
-Alter Self: I don't speak polymorph...can a dragon snag a different dragon's flight speed?
-Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker (MIC, 500g) 'move' as a swift action 1/day.
-Flyby attack (SRD) attack at any point during a move.
-Mobile spell-casting feat (CA 111) Ditto for casting.
-Flyby breath (Dragonlance Campaign Setting ~pg55) Ditto for breathing, except a double-move.
-Strafing breath (DCS) Breath AOE lengthened to 1/2 your fly speed, need to go in a straight line while breathing.
-Could swear there was some metamagic component or feat that improves flight spells *ponder*
edit: Forgot to apply the +160 speed before psuedonatural.
edit 2: spoilers for slightly nicer formatting. Still clunky; I mostly wanted to give folks something to chew on.
edit 3: added 'paragon' template as well, and fixed some math.