I am a mad man: Converting Saga Edition to 5e [PEACH]

This is going to be a long running project, I am going to work on one book at a time, and am at the moment just starting by getting the species information in and starting to convert over to 5e convention, any and all advice is appreciated. I will be posting the links to each of the homebrewery here labeled by what book they are, I will also be updating progress on the books as I go.

Page that leads to others
http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/S1ZBJe-fgf

General Material: http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/S1Zxh_hglf
Adding more Equipment, formatting will be fixed after the equipment is in.

Force Users: http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/r1XT-u15gz
First draft done

Non-Force Users: http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/BkQaSUGvzG
First draft done

Force System Work: http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/Hy--GMoazM
Developing a new system for the Force This has been integrated into the system

Somebody already made 5e Star Wars, though its quality in some places is dubious at best. Mainly the force users; the Jedi seems super broken, and they unfairly lumped everything that isn't a Jedi into the same "adept" class. However, despite this, its a solid base to work off of, and if your interested I started working on custom force-user classes for 5e star wars to replace the bad ones from this conversion a while ago, though I never got too far with them. (the farthest I got was almost finishing the Consular class, albiet not at any semblance of balance.) If you wish, I can help you out with this, specificly showing you what I had for force users so we can tweek them togther, as well as using the actual star wars 5e conversion for inspiration.

The 5e conversion can be found in my 4shared, or if you think 4shared links are spooky the creator's personal scribid.

Likewise, you can find my start to the Consular class here. Note that none of the powers are started out, and neither is the last archetype. I will continue work once I know your stance on things. (and some of the features are likely way, way too OP)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Giegue

Somebody already made 5e Star Wars, though its quality in some places is dubious at best. Mainly the force users; the Jedi seems super broken, and they unfairly lumped everything that isn't a Jedi into the same "adept" class. However, despite this, its a solid base to work off of, and if your interested I started working on custom force-user classes for 5e star wars to replace the bad ones from this conversion a while ago, though I never got too far with them. (the farthest I got was almost finishing the Consular class, albiet not at any semblance of balance.) If you wish, I can help you out with this, specificly showing you what I had for force users so we can tweek them togther, as well as using the actual star wars 5e conversion for inspiration.

The 5e conversion can be found in my 4shared, or if you think 4shared links are spooky the creator's personal scribid.

Likewise, you can find my start to the Consular class here. Note that none of the powers are started out, and neither is the last archetype. I will continue work once I know your stance on things. (and some of the features are likely way, way too OP)

---

Thank you very much for the information, I will look at it when I have time, I think I will use his races as a base but I am going to be adding to them, and re balancing them since there are some that are obviously stronger then the others

After thinking it over and talking with a friend of mine, I have come to the conclusion that I am going to split the material into 4 sections, the first being the generic world stuff, races, planets, equipment that kind of thing. The second being into the force users, the classes and abilities associated with them, this will be split into two sections, based on the side of the force used, and the last section being the classes and abilities for non-force sensitive characters/classes, the other option is to simply not have non-force sensitive classes but that is boring

Alright, I suppose then I should start trying to finish the consular and start fleshing out the Guardian (melee/lightsaber focused force user, based quite heavily on the Paladin) beyond a half-finished table?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Giegue

Alright, I suppose then I should start trying to finish the consular and start fleshing out the Guardian (melee/lightsaber focused force user, based quite heavily on the Paladin) beyond a half-finished table?

---

I'm planning on trying to recreate something close to the casters with the force users, while the non force users will fill the role that is held by the Barbarian, non caster fighters and rogues, Monks I think will be covered by both sides, although I could give monk to just the non-force users, since most of the best martial artist of that nature are non force users, who developed there skill to super human levels to contest force users

Made a master page that links to the other sections of the conversion

http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/S1ZBJe-fgf

Yeah, I was straight up just making the force users work like 5e casters, but with force points/spell points instead of spell slots. The Consular, if you didn't see, was a combination of cleric and sorcerer mechanics, while the Guardian (gish/saber focused force user) was pretty much going to be a derivative of the Paladin. (though wisdom-based for lightsiders, as thematically I always felt light side force users would be wis-based, while dark side ones would be cha-based.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Giegue

Yeah, I was straight up just making the force users work like 5e casters, but with force points/spell points instead of spell slots. The Consular, if you didn't see, was a combination of cleric and sorcerer mechanics, while the Guardian (gish/saber focused force user) was pretty much going to be a derivative of the Paladin. (though wisdom-based for lightsiders, as thematically I always felt light side force users would be wis-based, while dark side ones would be cha-based.)

---

Makes sense

I've been working on a similar project myself to update d20 Modern to 5e standard, so I can definitely respect what you are trying to do here. Some things that stand out though;

The Pistol expert feat allows you to ignore the loading penalty of pistols, but there are no pistols that have the loading quality.

With the lack of Exotic weapon opportunity costs in 5e, there is no reason to take paired Light weapons over a Double weapon as you have stated up the Double property. What I did was lower the base damage die, then gave every Double weapon the Versatile property, allowing the wielder to switch between making two Light weapon equivalent attacks or a single one-handed equivalent attack on the fly. I also came up with the idea of Active Weapon Abilities, to describe things such as Ready Vs. Charge and Tacking cover behind a tower shield, the idea being that some weapons can be used in multiple different ways, but you must chose only one of those ways each turn.

For Example, my revised Quarterstaff

Quarterstaff: 1d6 Bludgeoning damage - Two-Handed, Double(A)(1d4), Versatile(A)(1d8)

Double: This weapon has striking areas on each end, as such a proficient user who is wielding the weapon in two hands may attack with each end as if fighting with paired Light weapons (see Two-Weapon fighting). The damage dealt by the "off-hand" end is listed in parenthesis. Double is an Active Weapon Ability and as such cannot be used simultaneously with other Active Weapon Abilities. On each turn you must choose only one of your weapon's Active Abilities to use.

Versatile: This weapon is capable of being wielded with one or two hands. When wielding this weapon with two hands, the base damage dealt by the weapon increases, with the new damage die listed in parenthesis after the trait. Versatile is an Active Weapon Ability and as such cannot be used simultaneously with other Active Weapon Abilities. On each turn must choose only one of your weapon's Active Abilities to use.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SkipSandwich

I've been working on a similar project myself to update d20 Modern to 5e standard, so I can definitely respect what you are trying to do here. Some things that stand out though;

The Pistol expert feat allows you to ignore the loading penalty of pistols, but there are no pistols that have the loading quality.

With the lack of Exotic weapon opportunity costs in 5e, there is no reason to take paired Light weapons over a Double weapon as you have stated up the Double property. What I did was lower the base damage die, then gave every Double weapon the Versatile property, allowing the wielder to switch between making two Light weapon equivalent attacks or a single one-handed equivalent attack on the fly. I also came up with the idea of Active Weapon Abilities, to describe things such as Ready Vs. Charge and Tacking cover behind a tower shield, the idea being that some weapons can be used in multiple different ways, but you must chose only one of those ways each turn.

For Example, my revised Quarterstaff

Quarterstaff: 1d6 Bludgeoning damage - Two-Handed, Double(A)(1d4), Versatile(A)(1d8)

Double: This weapon has striking areas on each end, as such a proficient user who is wielding the weapon in two hands may attack with each end as if fighting with paired Light weapons (see Two-Weapon fighting). The damage dealt by the "off-hand" end is listed in parenthesis. Double is an Active Weapon Ability and as such cannot be used simultaneously with other Active Weapon Abilities. On each turn you must choose only one of your weapon's Active Abilities to use.

Versatile: This weapon is capable of being wielded with one or two hands. When wielding this weapon with two hands, the base damage dealt by the weapon increases, with the new damage die listed in parenthesis after the trait. Versatile is an Active Weapon Ability and as such cannot be used simultaneously with other Active Weapon Abilities. On each turn must choose only one of your weapon's Active Abilities to use.

---

While I really like that option, what I think I am going to do is drop the damage of the saberstaff to be a d6 so that it is equivalent to fighting with two shoto sabers

This project is still running, I just am off of break and back to classes so progress will be slowed

Early work on the classes has begun I am just getting the descriptions in at the moment, though I think I am going to work on finishing up the Lightside classes as both a guide and decider on whether or not to keep things separated by which side of the force is used, or if I should combine the classes and simply have archetypes that match the different sides of the force, I think I figured out what to do with the Grey, I am going to change it from being the Grey to simply being the other force organizations besides the Jedi and Sith, that way I can have much more to work with, and don't have to worry about finding as much material

Jedi Guardian, class first draft entered, I will be entering in the other Jedi Classes soon, followed by the force powers available to these classes

First draft of Jedi classes are all in, the core book powers are in, the other book powers are on the way, and I am going to work through the spells from D&D and bring in those that make sense

Also going to make lightsabers deal more damage, as they should be roughly on par with blasters, and they aren't at the moment, also going to add the rules for creating sabers, and the other variants in hopefully those will be in today

For those that haven't seen it here is the link to the Force User section of the edition

http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/r1XT-u15gz

The Force Powers have all been entered and assigned to the Jedi Classes, monkesque Jedi class is in

Almost done with the force users, will be starting on the non force users after I'm satisfied with the force users

The Force Users are done

The First draft of the non-force users is done

http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/BkQaSUGvzG

If there are any roles besides healer that you feel are missing from the non-force users let me know and I will add either a class or archetype as needed

As I work on developing the new system for the Force I will be working in this document before transferring it over.

http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/Hy--GMoazM

*bump* I feel pretty good about the basic idea for the new system, I'm just not quite sure on the power level behind certain aspects of the Use the Force skill, and have a slight worry about the new version of Lightsaber/Weapon Defense

Implemented the new Force System, and have begun to rework the armor and weapons.

Going to be adding in the non-weapon and armor equipment from the core book, and the other books after the weapons and armor from the books

You need to add a page for the whole Use the Force skill description to fit in. Currently it overflows outside the page.

Regarding the Force Powers, you need to change the language to match the use of Force Points instead of spell slots, since they're not a thing with the Force. I know this takes a huge effort but in the end I think you'd be thankful for doing it. It makes easier to add new Force Powers later when you have a ready framework to work with.

Other than that, the thing you did with the Force Training is exactly how I would've done it. Kudos for that, I guess :)

(not to brag or anything: although it was my idea, you did the hard work and you deserve the credit for it).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arkhios

You need to add a page for the whole Use the Force skill description to fit in. Currently it overflows outside the page.

Regarding the Force Powers, you need to change the language to match the use of Force Points instead of spell slots, since they're not a thing with the Force. I know this takes a huge effort but in the end I think you'd be thankful for doing it. It makes easier to add new Force Powers later when you have a ready framework to work with.

Other than that, the thing you did with the Force Training is exactly how I would've done it. Kudos for that, I guess :)

(not to brag or anything: although it was my idea, you did the hard work and you deserve the credit for it).

---

Glad you like it, I will fix the formatting, as for the slot wording, I'm not done with that yet, I'm adding the spell point explanation, changedto be force points, and the way that ends up working is you convert your points into slots, like you would with sorcery points, just with slight variation in regards to higher level slots, that will be added soon, after I finish getting Use Computer finished and the skills formatted

Fixed the formatting, finished putting in the skills, and added the section explaining how Force points work for casting powers

I apologize for necroing this thread, but I wanted to chime in with my own opinions now that I've gotten a chance to look at it. I must say you've done great work, though with the Sith inquisitor I have a few gripes, mainly that the Lightning archetype looks a bit weak. The thing about warlocks is their casting is deceptively limited; while short rest castimg looks plentiful in theory, in actuality it usually ends up being like 1 spell/encounter until very high levels. This means that warlocks tend to have to fall back on their at-will attack options in most combat rounds. In 5e, this is no issue because any archetype can pick up Eldritch Blast and Agonizing blast. However, for the Sith Inquisito EB being archetype limited makes it so the other two archetypes fall appart in combat, which is not fitting for a master of force lightning. Now, the dark healer could also suffer form this issue, but I can't tell because it does get some very unique powers. However, both dark healer and lightning seem to both suffer from being bad at combat, since they don't have their own EB equlivilents and thus are stuck spamming cantrips with the same power-level as a consular's cantrips, while the consular is also getting more casts/fight then them. Granted, they get invocations, but these don't really make up the difference because they are not as good as spells.

Now, there are four ways to solve this. Either A) You give both these archetypes their own EB equlivilent, B) you up the damage of their own at-will attack features (so the health leech for dark healer and shocking grasp for lightining), C) you make them better saber fighters, taking a page from the hexblade and giving them invocations that give them powers simmilar to the cha-to-saber attacks and damage, hexblade's curse and smite powers, so they actually don't suck as saber fighters (as right now the blade pact is actually worse than the blade pact was before hexblade, which is pretty bad) or D) you make their at-will attack powers have POWERFUL, at-will control or debuff riders, to compensate for the poor damage when compared to the EB the sorcerer gets. By powerful, I don't mean disadvantage on rolls or stuff like that. Thats just the frostbite cantrip. I'm talking something like lightning being able to use its bonus action to force an enemy who takes damage from shocking grasp to make a wisdom saving throw or be stunned until the start of the next round, at will. Like powerful, at-will control effects...not just simple debuffs

Basicly, if your not going to give the other archetypes access to EB, but still shaft them with the warlock casting chassis, they need an at-will attack option comparable to EB in power otherwise there is no reason to ever take them over sorcerer in a game with any frequency of combat. As it stands, the only way to play Inquisitor optimally is to take the sorcerer archetype, and that to me is a big shame.

Other than that, it looks pretty darn good. So I give you major props.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Giegue

I apologize for necroing this thread, but I wanted to chime in with my own opinions now that I've gotten a chance to look at it. I must say you've done great work, though with the Sith inquisitor I have a few gripes, mainly that the Lightning archetype looks a bit weak. The thing about warlocks is their casting is deceptively limited; while short rest castimg looks plentiful in theory, in actuality it usually ends up being like 1 spell/encounter until very high levels. This means that warlocks tend to have to fall back on their at-will attack options in most combat rounds. In 5e, this is no issue because any archetype can pick up Eldritch Blast and Agonizing blast. However, for the Sith Inquisito EB being archetype limited makes it so the other two archetypes fall appart in combat, which is not fitting for a master of force lightning. Now, the dark healer could also suffer form this issue, but I can't tell because it does get some very unique powers. However, both dark healer and lightning seem to both suffer from being bad at combat, since they don't have their own EB equlivilents and thus are stuck spamming cantrips with the same power-level as a consular's cantrips, while the consular is also getting more casts/fight then them. Granted, they get invocations, but these don't really make up the difference because they are not as good as spells.

Now, there are four ways to solve this. Either A) You give both these archetypes their own EB equlivilent, B) you up the damage of their own at-will attack features (so the health leech for dark healer and shocking grasp for lightining), C) you make them better saber fighters, taking a page from the hexblade and giving them invocations that give them powers simmilar to the cha-to-saber attacks and damage, hexblade's curse and smite powers, so they actually don't suck as saber fighters (as right now the blade pact is actually worse than the blade pact was before hexblade, which is pretty bad) or D) you make their at-will attack powers have POWERFUL, at-will control or debuff riders, to compensate for the poor damage when compared to the EB the sorcerer gets. By powerful, I don't mean disadvantage on rolls or stuff like that. Thats just the frostbite cantrip. I'm talking something like lightning being able to use its bonus action to force an enemy who takes damage from shocking grasp to make a wisdom saving throw or be stunned until the start of the next round, at will. Like powerful, at-will control effects...not just simple debuffs

Basicly, if your not going to give the other archetypes access to EB, but still shaft them with the warlock casting chassis, they need an at-will attack option comparable to EB in power otherwise there is no reason to ever take them over sorcerer in a game with any frequency of combat. As it stands, the only way to play Inquisitor optimally is to take the sorcerer archetype, and that to me is a big shame.

Other than that, it looks pretty darn good. So I give you major props.

---

Thank you for pointing that out, I will give access to the Dark Blast to all of the Archetypes, and agonizing blast, as for the blade pact it should be the exact same as what the blade pact was before hexblade, since I'm pretty sure I copied it straight over. I will take a look at it to make sure that I didn't do something weird.

Don't worry about Necroing, I hadn't posted anything on here in a while because nobody had responded to any of the changes that I had made, so I had assumed that I was good to continue forward without worry. So I'm glad to have feedback on what I have done thus far.

Looking at the inquisitor more I noticed another big flaw: it has two "bad" saves and no good one. In 5e EVERY class has one "bad" save (Str, Int, Cha) and one "good" save (Dex, Con, Wis). The inquisitor as of now has no good saves, which is BAD design-wise. I understand not wanting to give them Wis/Cha for fluff, but Int/Cha is just BAD, so I suggest giving them either Dex/Cha or Con/Cha, if you want to keep with their RP of easily succumbing to vice.

Likewise, Agonizing Blast is not needed with Dark Blast if your already adding Cha to each blast, so no need for agonizing last. Also, speaking of dark Blast, there is a glitch with its write-up. You mention multiple blasts, but nowhere in its rules text do you mention how many extra blasts it gets and when it gets them. I know it's meant to act as EB, but not everybody will, so adding how it scales into its rules text is CRITICAL.

Finally, I feel if every archetype gets dark blast, that it should deal different damage types for each archetypes to keep it fitting that archetype's fluff; necrotic for healer, force for sorcerer and lightning for lightning.

Oh, and while this suggestion is not needed by any means, since Sith sorcerers are meant to be the best Necros I feel they should get some undead love since right now a Consular can necro better than them (due to getting higher level slots for your create undead expe) which does not seem right.

My idea to remedy this is to make two Sith sorcerery rituals you can grab with the book of ancient secrets, based on the wizard's undead thralls feature and Oathbreaker paladin's command undead channel Divinity, which I have rough suggestions below:

Command Undead -As an action, you can use your Sith Magic to bring an undead Creature you can see within 30ft under your control. It must make a Charisma saving throw against your Sith Inquisitor power save DC. On a failed save, it must obey your commands for the next 24 hours, or until you use this ritual again. Undead who's CR are equal to or greater than your Sith Inquisitor level are immune to this Ritual. You must have your Book of Shadows on hand to use this ritual. Once you use this ritual, you cannot do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

Raise Greater Undead - If you have your book of shadows on hand, you can raise more and stronger undead through Sith Magic. When you use a power that creates undead, you can increase that power's casting time to 10 minutes to have the undead it creates gain the following benefits:

• They increase their hit point maximums by your Sith Inquisitor level.
• They add your proficiency bonus to their weapon damage rolls.

Additionally, when you cast a mystic arcanum that creates undead in this way, you can expend a use of a mystic arcanum with a higher level to cast that mystic arcanum at that level instead of its normal level. (You do not also cast the mystic arcanum you expended)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Giegue

Looking at the inquisitor more I noticed another big flaw: it has two "bad" saves and no good one. In 5e EVERY class has one "bad" save (Str, Int, Cha) and one "good" save (Dex, Con, Wis). The inquisitor as of now has no good saves, which is BAD design-wise. I understand not wanting to give them Wis/Cha for fluff, but Int/Cha is just BAD, so I suggest giving them either Dex/Cha or Con/Cha, if you want to keep with their RP of easily succumbing to vice.

Likewise, Agonizing Blast is not needed with Dark Blast if your already adding Cha to each blast, so no need for agonizing last. Also, speaking of dark Blast, there is a glitch with its write-up. You mention multiple blasts, but nowhere in its rules text do you mention how many extra blasts it gets and when it gets them. I know it's meant to act as EB, but not everybody will, so adding how it scales into its rules text is CRITICAL.

Finally, I feel if every archetype gets dark blast, that it should deal different damage types for each archetypes to keep it fitting that archetype's fluff; necrotic for healer, force or necrotic (your choice) for sorcerer and lightning for lightning.

Oh, and while this suggestion is not needed by any means, since Sith sorcerers are meant to be the best Necros I feel they should get some undead love since right now a Consular can necro better than them (due to getting higher level slots for your create undead expe) which does not seem right.

My idea to remedy this is to make two Sith sorcerery rituals you can grab with the book of ancient secrets, based on the wizard's undead thralls feature and Oathbreaker paladin's command undead channel Divinity, which I have rough suggestions below:

Command Undead -As an action, you can use your Sith Magic to bring an undead Creature you can see within 30ft under your control. It must make a Charisma saving throw against your Sith Inquisitor power save DC. On a failed save, it must obey your commands for the next 24 hours, or until you use this ritual again. Undead who's CR are equal to or greater than your Sith Inquisitor level are immune to this Ritual. You must have your Book of Shadows on hand to use this ritual. Once you use this ritual, you cannot do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

Raise Greater Undead - If you have your book of shadows on hand, you can raise more and stronger undead through Sith Magic. When you use a power that creates undead, you can increase that power's casting time to 10 minutes to have the undead it creates gain the following benefits:

• They increase their hit point maximums by your Sith Inquisitor level.
• They add your proficiency bonus to their weapon damage rolls.

Additionally, when you cast a mystic arcanum that creates undead in this way, you can expend a use of a mystic arcanum with a higher level to cast that mystic arcanum at that level instead of its normal level. (You do not also cast the mystic arcanum you expended)

---

I really like that, I was going to change dark blast to function just as eldritch blast without agonizing blast, and make it available to all, but if you feel that it should stay as a unique for Sith Inquisitor I can do that.

I will definitely add the necro rituals you recommend.

Yeah, it should remain Inquisitor only because if you hand it to consulars they suddenly become straight up better than inquisitors again. The Cha is not the reason EB is so strong, it's the fact that it's a cantrip that rivals a fighter's attack damage that makes it so strong. So even without agonizing blast, giving access to it to consulars would overpower them and underpower inquisitors as a result.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Giegue

Yeah, it should remain Inquisitor only because if you have d it to consulars they suddenly become straight up better than inquisitors again. The Cha is not the reason EB is so strong, it's the fact that it's a cantrip that rivals a fighter's attack damage that makes it so strong, even without agonizing blast, giving access to it to consulars would overpower them and underpower inquisitors as a result.

---

Gotcha, I'll keep it as a Inquisitor specific thing then, I think what I am going to do is develop unique versions of it for each of the archetypes, what I think I will do for Dark Healer, is give them a version of it that has a d8 as its damage die, but will be the damage base for dark healing, I'll have to tweak the way that dark healing works specifically because of that change.

For Lightning Master, I will give them the d10 base damage, but then give them the ability to either spend a force point for the stun, or something like that, and make it so there shocking grasp is what deals that level of damage.