Re: [3.5 Bloodline] Soulbred
That was fast. As I mentioned, I've never really gotten into the Incarnum system, but this looks pretty solid. My only nitpick is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pyromancer999
The first is that for a number of rounds per day equal to 1/2 the number of bloodline levels they have, they may treat a soulmeld as though it had twice as much essentia invested in it than was actually invested by the Soulbred.
By "Bloodline Level" do you mean the levels you would take at 3rd, 6th and 12th? :smallconfused: That doesn't make much sense. I think you may have been going for 1/2 their level (It would be 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, depending on bloodline strength, but they have to have a Major to get the ability).
Re: [3.5 Bloodline] Soulbred
Looks good, though I'd suggest that on the Soulshaper ability you mention they must fulfil any prerequisites. For example the soulmelds from dragon magic require the dragonblooded ability.
Owrtho
Re: [3.5 Bloodline] Soulbred
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Welknair
That was fast. As I mentioned, I've never really gotten into the Incarnum system, but this looks pretty solid. My only nitpick is:
By "Bloodline Level" do you mean the levels you would take at 3rd, 6th and 12th? :smallconfused: That doesn't make much sense. I think you may have been going for 1/2 their level (It would be 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, depending on bloodline strength, but they have to have a Major to get the ability).
Oops. Yeah. That's what I meant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Owrtho
Looks good, though I'd suggest that on the Soulshaper ability you mention they must fulfil any prerequisites. For example the soulmelds from dragon magic require the dragonblooded ability.
Owrtho
That's true. Thanks. Changed.
Re: [3.5 Bloodline] Soulbred
I like it; especially Living Soulmeld...
Re: [3.5 Bloodline] Soulbred
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Amechra
I like it; especially Living Soulmeld...
Thanks. With Living Soulmeld, I sort of wanted them to be able to invest essentia in themselves, so, since part of the fluff was that part of them was incarnum itself, I decided to let them treat themselves as living soulmelds, hence the name.
Re: [3.5 Bloodline] Soulbred
Thought I'd mention, you never seem to mention how many soul melds they can use at a time, just how many they learn. You also still need to fix the Azure Ascendance typo of bloodline level being there in place of level.
Owrtho
Re: [3.5 Bloodline] Soulbred
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Owrtho
Thought I'd mention, you never seem to mention how many soul melds they can use at a time, just how many they learn. You also still need to fix the Azure Ascendance typo of bloodline level being there in place of level.
Owrtho
Hmmm...this is true. Thanks for noticing. Fixed.
Re: [3.5 Bloodline] Soulbred
Noticed 2 more things. First, while you give them away to unlock their chakra, you fail to mention their limit on chakra binds. Second, this bloodline is almost better at using soulmelds, having essentia, and possibly chakra binds than the Soulborn in Magic of Incarnum (having looked at the table, this doesn't seem as big a deal as I was thinking). Here's a table showing how a level 20 character looks with this bloodline (at each strength) and the 3 official classes. Note as you haven't placed a limit on chakra binds, I'm listing the number of chakra that are unlocked (assuming they unlock one with each Essentia Boost).
{table=head]Source|Meldshaper[br]Level|Usable[br]Soulmelds|Essentia[br]Pool|Chakra[br]Binds
Minor|5|3|2|1
Intermediate|10|4|5|2
Major|20|6|10|4
Incarnate|20|9|26|5
Soulborn|20|5|10|3
Totemist|20|9|20|5[/table]
Then again, the list of soul melds is rather more limited, and you don't gain any of the other features of the class, so it likely isn't a big deal (I think I might have been misreading the Soulshaper ability before I made the table).
Anyway, for formatting, you may want to change the last sentence "Soulbred may use up to 1 + 1/8, 1/6, or 1/4 x their level of Soulmelds at a time." to "Soulbred may use up to 1 + 1/8, 1/6, or 1/4 x their level, as according to bloodline strength, of Soulmelds at a time."
Owrtho
Re: [3.5 Bloodline] Soulbred
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Owrtho
Noticed 2 more things. First, while you give them away to unlock their chakra, you fail to mention their limit on chakra binds.
Oh, right. Forgot about that. I'm thinking 1, 2, and 4 chakra binds based on bloodline strength. Thoughts?
Quote:
Second, this bloodline is almost better at using soulmelds, having essentia, and possibly chakra binds than the Soulborn in Magic of Incarnum (having looked at the table, this doesn't seem as big a deal as I was thinking).
Yeah, the Soulborn is pretty weak at this sort of stuff. That's part of the reason why there have been so many fixes for it.
Quote:
Here's a table showing how a level 20 character looks with this bloodline (at each strength) and the 3 official classes. Note as you haven't placed a limit on chakra binds, I'm listing the number of chakra that are unlocked (assuming they unlock one with each Essentia Boost).
{table=head]Source|Meldshaper<br>Level|Usable<br>Soulmelds|Essentia<br>Pool|Chakra<br>Binds
Minor|5|3|2|1
Intermediate|10|4|5|2
Major|20|6|10|4
Incarnate|20|9|26|5
Soulborn|20|5|10|3
Totemist|20|9|20|5[/table]
Then again, the list of soul melds is rather more limited, and you don't gain any of the other features of the class, so it likely isn't a big deal (I think I might have been misreading the Soulshaper ability before I made the table).
Hm...still, given the few number of chakra binds they can pull off, why not allow them to use them all?
Quote:
Anyway, for formatting, you may want to change the last sentence "Soulbred may use up to 1 + 1/8, 1/6, or 1/4 x their level of Soulmelds at a time." to "Soulbred may use up to 1 + 1/8, 1/6, or 1/4 x their level, as according to bloodline strength, of Soulmelds at a time."
Owrtho
That's true. Changed.
Re: [3.5 Bloodline] Soulbred
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pyromancer999
Oh, right. Forgot about that. I'm thinking 1, 2, and 4 chakra binds based on bloodline strength. Thoughts?
Hm...still, given the few number of chakra binds they can pull off, why not allow them to use them all?
That is true. Though when you word it I'd suggest making sure they only gain the boost to max chakra binds if they use the Essentia Boost to gain a chakra. Otherwise you risk things like a totemist grabbing the bloodline and having 4 chakra binds at level 5 (would be 5, but there's only 4 places to bind them at that level). For that matter though, you may want to specify if they can unlock chakra they already can bind to and have it function like gaining the Double Chakra feat for that chakra (or just granting it for said chakra).
Owrtho
Re: [3.5 Bloodline] Soulbred
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Owrtho
That is true. Though when you word it I'd suggest making sure they only gain the boost to max chakra binds if they use the Essentia Boost to gain a chakra. Otherwise you risk things like a totemist grabbing the bloodline and having 4 chakra binds at level 5 (would be 5, but there's only 4 places to bind them at that level). For that matter though, you may want to specify if they can unlock chakra they already can bind to and have it function like gaining the Double Chakra feat for that chakra (or just granting it for said chakra).
Owrtho
Not entirely sure what you're talking about with the wording, but granting Double Chakra benefit for a chakra you can already bind sounds interesting. I'll think it over.
Re: [3.5 Bloodline] Soulbred
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pyromancer999
Not entirely sure what you're talking about with the wording, but granting Double Chakra benefit for a chakra you can already bind sounds interesting. I'll think it over.
Well, I was saying two things. The first, was that it should only increase their max chakra binds each time they unlock chakra (or each time they gain essentia boost). This would be to avoid having it blend overly well with an incarnum class, which, if you just say it gives however many chakra binds (relying on them only getting chakra from essentia boost), could get a bit stronger than intended.
The second part was that if you used essentia boost to gain a chakra you already have (from either class levels or already unlocking it earlier with the bloodline), it would grant you Double Chakra for that chakra. Not sure if this is the best idea, but it doesn't particularly seem overpowered and might allow some things like characters who just want to focus on a given chakra.
Owrtho
Re: [3.5 Bloodline] Soulbred
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Owrtho
Well, I was saying two things. The first, was that it should only increase their max chakra binds each time they unlock chakra (or each time they gain essentia boost). This would be to avoid having it blend overly well with an incarnum class, which, if you just say it gives however many chakra binds (relying on them only getting chakra from essentia boost), could get a bit stronger than intended.
Not quite getting you here. Max Chakra binds should only apply to the ones gained from this bloodline.
Quote:
The second part was that if you used essentia boost to gain a chakra you already have (from either class levels or already unlocking it earlier with the bloodline), it would grant you Double Chakra for that chakra. Not sure if this is the best idea, but it doesn't particularly seem overpowered and might allow some things like characters who just want to focus on a given chakra.
Owrtho
Eh, this might not be the best idea.
Re: [3.5 Bloodline] Soulbred
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pyromancer999
Not quite getting you here. Max Chakra binds should only apply to the ones gained from this bloodline.
The issue with that though is that there seems to be no differentiation with the classes specifying the limits can't be spread between them if you multiclass. Thus a totemist 6/incarnate 2 could have 3 chakra binds. Still I suppose you could try going with that. it also doesn't address if the character wanted to do something like take feats for more chakra (though those may well just give you an increase in chakra binds each time you take them since they neglect to mention it).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pyromancer999
Eh, this might not be the best idea.
The issue of balance here seems to depend on how you have it work. For example, if you have a character without any levels in a meldshaper class gain the ability to double bind chakra by giving up his chance to get a new chakra (while also increasing his max chakra binds by 1), it doesn't seem overly powerful. After all, it's about the same as granting a bonus feat at that level (between Shape Soulmeld, Bonus Essentia, Open Least Chakra, Open Lesser Chakra (if high enough level), Open Greater Chakra (if high enough level), and Double Chakra, though in the case of the open x chakra you don't gain the minor bonus) and depending on how one looks at it, the increased number of chakra could just be a part of standard progression. In that case, the gaining Double Chakra doesn't seem overly powerful.
As for when looking at a character with levels in a meldshaping class, they may already have chakra binds. In this case you could have the Double bind option only available if they already used essentia boost to gain that bind. Even if you don't though, it becomes the option between letting them gain a chakra bind they already have and having just a +1 to max chakra binds (which they'll benefit from at that level or any later one), or letting them gain the ability to double bind a chakra bind they already have and granting a +1 to max chakra blinds. Again useful for the extra bind, but also allowing them to stack it onto another chakra. At any rate, none of the soulbinding classes ever gain enough chakra binds that 4 extra would grant them more than their total number of available chakra (well, at the rate you can gain the 4 chakra binds). Personally, I'm not sure that double bind is all that powerful. Sure it might be worth a feat, but so are the other options granted. It mainly seems to grant more of the ability to specialize rather than have variety from multiple chakra being available.
All said though, I might suggest that if you do allow it, placing a limit based on meldshaper level (much like the feat), though possibly only meldshaper level 8 rather than 9 (due to the levels you gain the essentia boosts at).
Owrtho
Re: [3.5 Bloodline] Soulbred
How does this apply to a character who already has Meldshaper levels? Do they stack (essentia pool, etc) or do you just take the better of whatever you would have?