Lets say youre building a lvl8 character that is rogue1/fighter5/rogue2, how would you fill out the rest of the build?
More specifically im interested in subclass combination.
Printable View
Lets say youre building a lvl8 character that is rogue1/fighter5/rogue2, how would you fill out the rest of the build?
More specifically im interested in subclass combination.
What do you want to do?
There are seven Fighter subclasses and seven Rogue subclasses (officially) that can be combined... that's a lot of options!
There are a couple of threads discussing Fighter/Rogue builds floating around on the first page or two of this forum right now. Read up on those and give us an idea of what you'd like to play.
A short list of obvious ones...
Batlemaster/Thief
Battlemaster/Mastermind
Battlemaster/Swashbuckler
Eldritch Knight/Arcane Trickster
Samurai/Assassin
Samurai/Inquisitive
Samurai/Scout
Champion/Thief
Someone who's better at this stuff than me should make a complete Fighter/Rogue guide, honestly.
If you want a melee character that's more independent, Swashbuckler is the clear choice for Rogue, since you're not relying on other characters for sneak attack. If you go ranged, basically any combination is viable, but if your DM is generous with Hiding in combat (ie giving advantage to attack) then Champion is an excellent choice, to give yourself more crits, which are especially powerful on rogues since they do a lot of dice damage.
However, for just about any multiclass, you can't go wrong with Battlemaster, especially if you don't intend on sticking around past fighter 5. Front-loaded, with some maneuvers that are in fact better for you than they would be for a pure fighter. Precision Attack is great if you would otherwise not have a chance to get a sneak attack that turn. Trip Attack can give you and others advantage in melee. Riposte, however, is the big winner. You can get one Sneak Attack per turn not per round, so any source of reaction attacks is your friend, though do note it requires melee attacks. Probably requires a Swashbuckler multiclass to make the most of it, for a stylish melee master with all sorts of tricks up their sleeves.
I think a lot more can be said depending on how you choose to go from level 8. Do you intend on being mostly a fighter, or mostly a rogue?
I played recently a lvl 10 character Swashbuckler 6 / Battlemaster 4 and turned out pretty well in and out of combat. I decided to go for Stealth, Acrobatics, Persuasion and Perception Expertise and with TWF and Manouvers like Trip, Riposte and Precise I can gain upper hand in a fight. If I'm alone fighting a monster I can also apply Sneak Attack.
All rogue, im personally waffling between EK/AT and BM/swash.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdAstra
The sheer amount of options available to the caster subs is so tasty, but its pretty MAD for my purposes as i also want Cha for Face duty.
The more martial build though sounds like it will be very effective in combat, but the lack of magic to aid it in noncombat stuff is worrying.
I mostly made this thread because i realised that the two classes and their subclasses have a lot that mixes well and wanted to see what other peoples thoughts were.
Rogue 12/Fighter 8 is a pretty tasty end goal, if only for the maximum ASI's (7), as well as nabbing/not losing out on (sub)class features. It does, however, depend on what your focus is and what subclasses you're playing. An Assassin, for example, might happily forgo their 13th level feature, while a Thief might really want UMD asap.
To answer more specifically;
- Arcane Trickster/Eldritch Knight is an obvious combo, for the spell slots; with this one, you'll probably want a heavier focus on one Class to get access to the higher level spells known and subclass features. A 15/5 split is not unreasonable here.
- Champion/Anything is nothing to shout about, but is also nothing to complain about either; Improved Crit + Sneak Attack is all kinds of tasty (and adding both Str and Dex mod to your jump distance is sort of entertaining too!).
- My personal favourite has to be Mastermind/Battlemaster, though. Yeah, there's a little overlap, but it makes for a great former (non-comm) officer style character, who knows war (and people) from extensive experience; good for middle-aged human or any of the longer lived races that want to play up on the "You're all kids to me" aspect of playing such a race.
Not quite clear if you mean you are gong to play them from level 1 or are starting at level 8?Quote:
Originally Posted by chainer1216
In one game I have an Arcane Trickster/Battle-master.
For Level 8 I would go with AT 5/BM 3 which give you the maneuvers and lets you build up the AT for the second level spells and later get the extra attack.
My daughter is playing Champion/Scout
This gives a good skill monkey with decent combat using Sharpshooter and Archery style.
The one I want to play is the Swashbuckler/BM. I could see taking Dueling Style and being heavy on Fighter levels to get the third attack at level 11.
Magic: Eldritch Knight/Arcane Trickster
By 5/3 you are functionally only a 2nd level caster (3 level one slots) with a very limited spell list. Granted, you have Extra Attack, Mage Hand Legerdemain, Weapon Bond, and really cool flavor, but multiclassing with 1/3 casters is really unforgiving in the magic department.
Skill: Battle master/Swashbuckler
By 5/3 you are a hit and run master with Maneuvers, Fancy Footwork, and Rakish Audacity. Having your abilities be at will or short rest based (vs long rest spell slots) is also nice.
I recommend Skill for rapier wielding fun and probably go straight rogue from there.
I have a Fighter/Rogue currently, and I went Battlemaster/Arcane Trickster. I think they make for a great pair, since Arcane Trickster provides you with a few spells and Mage Hand Legerdemain while Battlemaster gives you Superiority Dice and Maneuvers. And don't forget, because you can cast spells you can attune to items like the Wand of Fireball, so you can get an easy AoE if your DM gives you one.
Maneuvers like Distracting Strike, Maneuvering Attack, Precision Attack, and Pushing Attack are pretty strong in the hands of a Ranged Rogue, especially if you use Precision Attack with Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, and Sneak Attack while using a Handcrossbow. You'll essentially become a mini-machine gun.
That is why I dislike this mix. The tiny extra spell power does not seem worth combining these two. I prefer Trickster as a base and then Battle Mater and Samurai both look like nice options. At least if you take Wizard you gain access to all the spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Christew
Rogue assassin, samurai fighter. Play an archer and just kind of rain ninja death from above.
I wouldn't even touch the Fighter class and just make a sword n board strength based rogue...Quote:
Originally Posted by chainer1216
But if you want fighter subclasses... No more than 3 levels of fighter, that's for sure.
Strength based
I would probably grab Cavalier.
Expertise in Athletics.
For rogur subclass, I would grab... Ugh... So hard... Ummm Mastermind, Inquisitive, or Swashbuckler... Let's go Mastermind for ultimate fun.
4th level rogue I would grab +2 strength I guess.
{scrubbed}
I'm considering a fighter/rogue combo for an upcoming game. My go to is BM/Swash, because I love the synergy, and swashbuckler being able to solo very well just getting the added oomph from fighter (and then great maneuvers like riposte on top of that, is just amazing). But I'm really actually thinking hard of grabbing thief instead, maximizing second story work to be able to quickly get on top of roofs/into trees and raining down death on critters engaged in my party. Would probably still stick with BM, as ranged maneuvers are pretty bomb...
Totally depends on party composition though. If there's no anvil for foes to bounce against, being a hammer is going to get me killed. :smallwink:
Quote:
Originally Posted by chainer1216
BM/Thief is fantastic if you want to be an action hero. A climb speed comes in handy for positioning and bypassing obstacles all the time. it lets you operate in 3 dimensions without magic. Plus you can jump further. Also you can drop caltrops or ball bearings or steal stuff your enemies are wearing as a bonus action.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodoxus
The Healer fear is crazy good with Fast Hands. You can stabilize someone who is at 0HP and give them 1HP (which brings them back to consciousness) as a BONUS ACTION in combat. Pop-up healing limited only by the number of Healer's Kits you have. The Healer feat also lets you heal someone for 1d6+4+their level HP once per Short Rest. Again, the only resource spent is Healer's Kit uses.
@OP:
How's this for a build? I've posted slight variations in other threads, but for the sake of diligence...
Mountain Dwarf
Mercenary Veteran background
Point Buy stats 17/14/16/8/10/10
Rogue 1
Skills:Atletics, Persuasion, Sleight of Hand. Stealth, Investigation, and Perception.
Expertise Athletics and Stealth.
Fighter 1-5
Battlemaster at 3
Maneuvers: Goading, Riposte, and Pushing. With Goading, you can throw a dagger to give an enemy disadvantage on the ally they're fighting. You can also push someone 15'. With a dagger throw lol
At F4 take Squat Nimbleness. This will give you an 18 Str, proficiency in Acrobatics, a 30' move speed, and advantage on escaping grapples.
L5 brings Extra Attack
Then take your next 2 levels in Rogue and select Thief archetype. See above for shenanigans.
At your next level up, either Rogue or Fighter, take the Healer feat. Also see above.
I would suggest at least 7 levels of Fighter for 2 more maneuver choices and a fifth Superiority Die. And another feat.
I'm playing this build at L11 (F6/R5) and he's an absolute beast.
It's a good, flavourful combo. But you can built it in many ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by chainer1216
Once I made a Champion/Thief for a friend of mine. Very, very effective. Simple to play, but able to do a lot of stuff that doesn't require magic. Even healing.
Battlemaster is interesting in that it grants you maneuvers, and some, like Feinting Attack can help you SA. If you go BM I suggest you make it the dominant side of MC. Not just SA, but battlemaster just brings a lot of combat options in general.
Champion is blunt. You're here mostly for the increased critical range. Twice as many critical will do a lot for your damage imput. If you can consistently get advantage on your attacks, the odds of getting a critical are quite big. Champion isn't too demanding, and you can invest more on your rogue side.
Samurai is also quite straighforward. 3 times per day you can just say "now I have an advantage". Handy. Cool even, if you want to roleplay a ronin. No reason to invest too much on it either.
Arcane Archer can add a lot of option for a ranged rogue as well.
On the rogue side. I find assassin overrated. Thief is overlooked, and the classic Fast Hands + Healer combo is as strong as always.
As a rule of thumb, I would invest more on the rogue side than on the fighter side.
Are you married to Rogue 3 / Fighter 5? I think some of the above discussion sorta ignored that particular restriction. If so, that is a pretty fighter-y rogue. I think the decisions you make should boil down to what style of play fits you best.Quote:
Originally Posted by chainer1216
Ranged Damage
Skill focused
Special-attacks and combos
Melee tank
Those are the 4 "styles" I see as most likely to make use of the combo.
Ranged: If you can change your level layout, Rogue 1 Arcane Archer 7 is just brutal for ranged style. You just level up rogue after this, but being able to turn misses into hits is of great power, plus the couple of arcane shots are handy for rogue-like things (I'd flavor them more mechanical than magical). At level 10 the subclass choice I'd make would be depending on the style of play at the table. I'd actually probably go with Thief, because climbing + ranged attacks has a lot of value in, but there's a lot of flavor to be had with Arcane Trickster or Inquisitive (I talk about it below) as well.
If you're sticking to 5/3, then I'd go for Battlemaster / Inquisitive 3. The reason for this is there's just a lot of cool BM things to do with a ranged attack manuever. Goading Attack for instance, if you're a good distance away, may mean they have to take disadvantage on all attacks because they physically can't get to you. Just one example of many. Inquistive I selected because the skill bonuses are always useful out of combat and the combat ability will let you sneak attack enemies that are not on the front line. This means extra damage potentially to a spell caster holding concentration for instance.
Skill focused: You want to up your skill-monkey game? Monster Hunter 5 / Scout 3 baby! That's a staggering 4 additional skill proficiency for a total of 8 skills, free expertise on Nature and Survival and 2 more of your choice from Rogue PLUS whatever background skills you end up with. Also, the abilities of both classes are handy immediately for combat too, so you won't really lag behind t here either.
Special-attacks and combos The options here are almost limitless, but I am going to go with BM + Thief. Being able to do things like disarm someone, grab their weapon, and disengage and climb a wall to get away - or distract them and steal the item you need... and run away. It's a lot of running away, ok!? Riposte and Menacing are just deadly in the hands of a rogue as well.
Melee tank Strangely, I feel this 5/3 split makes for some interesting front-line options. A Str based plate wearing, shield bearing, EK + Swash is where I'd take this. Simply put, the EK gives you a couple shots of Shield or Absorb Elements, which can be key to surviving a front-line confrontation, while the Swash ability lets you deal your sneak damage and disengage easily if things get a little too hot. I'd actually bring in Shield Master and maybe even Warcaster as a feats on this build. Yes, you can no longer knock prone first and then attack, but you CAN knockdown and then (thanks to Swash) walk away without giving an opportunity attack. This means, assuming equal movement, you can hit someone a couple times, knock them down, and then move 30ft. This is the only build, additionally, where I'd stay fighter and keep leveling up EK - at least to level 7, then probably back to Rogue to level 5 for Uncanny (more tanking potential), then back to EK to 12 (and if you go above level 17 do whatever you want).|
Nothing says menacing like a man in plate armor and a shield wielding a ... rapier... and swinging it like a club?
I think each of these combos would be fun in their own way. If out of combat RP is my thing the Monster Hunter Scout is just a great character to dream up. Tracking down dangerous monsters in the wilds, always full of tall tales to tell about how you tracked a Gorgon across the desert to find its lair and set an ambush... it's like someone made the Monster Hunter Ranger and made it actually fun. HAH.