dnd 3.5 character build suggestions please

as the title suggests I am looking for some build suggestions for a level 13 gestalt character

all of the following I want and I will not change

ELF (subtype open for suggestions: gray elf, high elf, wild elf, wood elf ect..)

Duskblade 13
//
?? 6/ Paladin (possibly grey or, of freedom) 2/ Abjerant Champion 5

I plan to use the following feats
Faerie Mysteries Initiate
Combat Casting

Duskblade 1// ??
Duskblade 2// ??
Duskblade 3// Paladin 1
Duskblade 4// ??
Duskblade 5// Paladin 2
Duskblade 6// ??
Duskblade 7// ??
Duskblade 8// ??

it is the ?? 6 levels that I am looking for suggestions with.
without using fractional saves with it, the build currently has
bab 13 fort 11 ref 4 will 8

thanks in advance

Any restrictions on alignment or allowed sources? Anything in particular you'd like the character to be good at? Expected table power level?

I would suggest, if you want paladin, to take prestige paladin instead, and use the base as archivist (since duskblade is int based already). Since you need turn undead to access prestige paladin, you might need to sacrifice a level to cleric, or, if you're happy to just eat being a wisdom caster, you can just go cleric all the way.

Won't work if you NEED your paladin levels to be at 3 and 5 specifically, but otherwise, you can get them at 5 and 6 by going cleric 1/archivist 3/prestige paladin 2/?? 2/Abjurant champion 5

For those 2 unknown levels, I would probably recommend getting a 3rd level of prestige paladin, as it gets you aura of resolve (if you go the freedom variant), granting immunity to compulsions, which is nice, and divine health, also a nice little bonus, plus it gets you another level of spellcasting, and then grabbing another level of archivist.

That would get you 11 levels of archivist casting thanks to abjurant champion, along with some nice bonuses from cleric domains, which you can exchange for other goodies if you wanted, I would recommend going a cloistered cleric and probably swapping the knowledge domain for knowledge devotion, since you don't need the armor prof, bab, etc since you have it on your duskblade side, so it's a straight upgrade.

You’re clearly aiming for something of an Int focus, what with Duskblade and Faerie Mysteries Initiate. You also seem to want to boost saves, since you’re taking 2 levels of Paladin. I suppose you could try to fit in 7 levels of Nightcloak, since that would give you +Int to all saves. The down sides are, you’d need to be Evil, and your current “must haves” leave 1 too few levels to work with. If your DM would allow you to rework Prestige Paladin in the image of one of the Evil variants of Paladin, it could work though.

For elven subraces, maybe try one of the ones that gives an Int bonus? That would be Fire Elf, Sun Elf, Silvanesti, that savage progression for Drow that lets you play one without level adjustment, and maybe Aelfborn, though that last one might not be what you’re looking for, being only half elf.

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Originally Posted by H_H_F_F

Any restrictions on alignment or allowed sources? Anything in particular you'd like the character to be good at? Expected table power level?

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1 good at: not particularly, 2 expected power level: mid to mid high optimization

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Originally Posted by Maat Mons

You’re clearly aiming for something of an Int focus, what with Duskblade and Faerie Mysteries Initiate. You also seem to want to boost saves, since you’re taking 2 levels of Paladin. I suppose you could try to fit in 7 levels of Nightcloak, since that would give you +Int to all saves. The down sides are, you’d need to be Evil, and your current “must haves” leave 1 too few levels to work with. If your DM would allow you to rework Prestige Paladin in the image of one of the Evil variants of Paladin, it could work though.

For elven subraces, maybe try one of the ones that gives an Int bonus? That would be Fire Elf, Sun Elf, Silvanesti, that savage progression for Drow that lets you play one without level adjustment, and maybe Aelfborn, though that last one might not be what you’re looking for, being only half elf.

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definitely pushing the INT optimization and saves via paladin. Nightcloak will not work in this instance.

...I can find nothing shifting Paladin to Intelligence based.

Factotum 8 would be pretty nice giving you all good saves, amazing skills, Int to EVERYTHING, and then some extra actions to boot.

1. Are you using Abjurant Champion to advance your Duskblade casting, or are you looking to include a full spellcasting class to advance with that?

2. You can't take one Paladin level, then a level of no paladin, and then another level of paladin. The class itself says that once you stop taking it you can't go back. So those two paladin levels must be consecutive.

3. You're looking to use Paladin to increase saves via Cha, but you're also looking to lean heavily into Int. You're probably spreading yourself too thin, but it's still doable with something like Persistent Draconic Polymorph.


My advice is to go Wizard 5/ Incantatrix 3/ Abjurant Champion 5// Duskblade 8/ Cloistered Cleric 3/ Paladin 2. Your first level of Incantatrix can block a school from Duskblade instead of from Wizard, which is a lot less painful if you pick one that doesn't give a Duskblade much, such as evocation or necromancy. Wizard should specialize in Conjuration with Enchantment and Evocation prohibited, trade Scribe Scroll for a Fighter bonus feat, trade your Wizard 5 bonus feat for Spontaneous Divination, and trade your familiar for Abrupt Jaunt. Put future levels in Duskblade and Incantatrix.

The Cleric levels are mostly just there for the feat Initiate of Mystra (or equivalent god of magic), which allows you to cast spells and keep your buffs in an antimagic field and in dead magic areas, if that's not available replace it with two more Paladin and the rest Duskblade. Take the feat Divine Defiance, so you can spend turn undead uses to attempt a counterspell as an immediate action. Trade a domain for Law Devotion, and your free knowledge domain for Knowledge Devotion, last domain is probably Magic to use spell trigger/completion items of spells from prohibited schools. Maybe even take the first Cleric level sooner, say you worship the old LN Mystra (or old dead god of magic), and take the feat Servant of the Fallen so that even if Mystra (or equivalent god of magic) dies and all the magic in the setting gets snuffed out, your magic still works.

Say you visited the Otyugh Hole in CS to get Iron Will without spending a feat. Take Item Familiar at 3rd, invest every skill point you get into it so it gives back the greatest bonus possible toward Spellcraft, use the extra for other important skills. Say it started as a Ring of Protection +1, which you upgraded to a Ring of Invisibility with a +1 Deflection bonus added (MIC p234) for normal item creation costs. It's an intelligent item which means can't be destroyed by disjunction and it gets actions in combat, it can activate its own invisibility effect on you at the end of each of your turns. Wear a glove or gauntlet over it so opponents will never have line of sight/effect to it and can never target it directly or slight of hand it. You can use normal item creation rules to add as many lesser and greater powers and even special purpose powers without going through the Item Familiar mechanics, since it's already an intelligent item: "A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions."

Draconic Polymorph has a range of personal, so use it to become a War Troll and use Metamagic Effect to make it Persistent by taking ten on the Spellcraft check. Do the same for either Bite of the Werebear or Bite of the Weretiger. Also use that to persist Shield, Wraithstrike, Displacement, and anything else you like. Cast Greater Luminous Armor every day, possibly extended, it benefits from Abjurant Champion, get a Rod of Bodily Restoration to fix the Str damage that occurs when it ends. Cast Superior Resistance every day. You could take the feat Otherworldly and turn into some kind of outsider form instead of a War Troll, but I'm rusty on what the best choices are.

You'll have full BAB, Str 31+8+16 for a 55 (+22 bonus), and persistent Wraithstrike, so always Power Attack for your full BAB. Be sure to pick up all the Necessary Magic Item effects that your spells don't cover. Namely, get a +1 Spiked Gauntlet with multiple Spellblade enchantments, one for each spell that can dispel your buffs (Dispel Magic, Greater Dispel Magic, Dispel Psionics if using transparency, etc.). The power level of this is way over the top of what's appropriate for most tables, so tone it down as needed.

Edit: You can also use Alter Self to change from your War Troll form into a socially acceptable medium humanoid-shaped creature, while retaining your buffed physical stats. Just dismiss Alter Self to revert back to your War Troll form for combat.

As for subtypes the Deep wyrm drow, or Forest Lord Elves would give you access to dragon blood and the Draconic Feats if that may help they are in the first few pages of Dragon Magic.
Also in races of the Dragon the Dragon Born Template doesn't add any to ECL you lose alot of Racial Characteristics but get
-2 Dex +2 Con
• Immunity to Frightful Presence: Dragonborn are
immune to the frightful presence ability of dragons,
just as if they were dragons.
• Draconic Aspect: Bahamut has blessed the dragonborn
with aspects combining some of the best attributes of
good dragons. this can let you get wings if you think flying would help

Also you count as both an Elf and a Dragon if using any of the three things a mentioned so this could open an option for new spells or feats you normally cant take

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Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou

1. Are you using Abjurant Champion to advance your Duskblade casting, or are you looking to include a full spellcasting class to advance with that?

2. You can't take one Paladin level, then a level of no paladin, and then another level of paladin. The class itself says that once you stop taking it you can't go back. So those two paladin levels must be consecutive.

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I believe in the Eberron Campaign Guide they have feats that left you cross class freely into or out of Paladin or Monk your choice when being taken. then you can always feat retrain at a later time

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Originally Posted by Yamatohekatsue

I believe in the Eberron Campaign Guide they have feats that left you cross class freely into or out of Paladin or Monk your choice when being taken. then you can always feat retrain at a later time

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I think its a little disingenuous to take a feat that lets you cross class out of a class, then get rid of it later. As a DM, I wouldnt let you do that, or, if I did, you would lose the class features of the levels you took out of order, since those levels are technically ex paladin levels, and you dont have the benefit of the feat any longer

Elf paragon for good to boost reflex saves and IQ.
Swordsage for reflex and will saves and diamond mind maneuvers to help deal with those pesky natural 1's...

thanks for the suggestions I have managed to cobble some stuff together