OOTS universe afterlives

So, we’ve already seen what LG afterlife looks like, so are there any speculations on what other afterlives look like?

My thoughts? CG afterlife will totally be what Belkar said it’ll be in strip #410

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Originally Posted by Fireblaster3147

So, we’ve already seen what LG afterlife looks like, so are there any speculations on what other afterlives look like?

My thoughts? CG afterlife will totally be what Belkar said it’ll be in strip #410

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Plane

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Originally Posted by Quebbster

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Plane

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Last time I checked, most versions of Celestia don’t feature a tavern of infinite one-night stands.

Most versions of Mount Celestia aren't very detailed, being as it is the Heaven of Lawful Good and all. It's not a great place to go adventuring if you're a typical nominally-good-aligned murderhobo, since there's no acceptable targets to kill and rob.

This one looks nice.
This one doesn't.
This one only looks good to the military-minded.

This one doesn't look too nice either.

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Originally Posted by MossyMeow

Last time I checked, most versions of Celestia don’t feature a tavern of infinite one-night stands.

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While obviously tweaked for comedy and plot purposes, it still has enough in common to be recognizable as Mount Celestia. Plus the explicit point of things like the Tavern is to help you get over such desires.

The 2017 calendar featured Arboria (Chaotic Good?), where Julio is vacationing. It’s basically partyville.

If you can vacation in an afterlife while still alive, doesn’t that kind of defeat the point of it being an afterlife? Like, could Roy drop by Celestia and visit his little brother any time via Plane Shift?

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Originally Posted by LadyEowyn

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If you can vacation in an afterlife while still alive, doesn’t that kind of defeat the point of it being an afterlife? Like, could Roy drop by Celestia and visit his little brother any time via Plane Shift?

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Sure, assuming you have a cleric of high enough level to cast the spell for you and a way to get back.

A simplistic math exercise should clarify the issue:

If 2 million characters have a cleric level then
200,000 are level 2
20,000 are level 3
2000 are level 4
200 are level 5
20 are level 6
And 2 are level 7

In order to have 2 NPCs in the world which can cast level 5 spells you need 200 million clerics in the world.

If 1 in 10 NPCs have an adventuring class level and 1 in 6 of those are clerics then the world population needs to exceed 12 trillion.

Now, I'm sure the world population isn't that high for all sentient races combined, and we have seen multiple high level casters, so the OotSverse doesn't work on a linear scale. However, even a curve which allows multiple higher level casters would insure they are scattered around the world and difficult to access unless you have a good friend who owes you a favor.

As a side bet, I'm betting 1/3 of the world's highest level clerics are at the Godsmoot. Fewer than 100 clerics of high enough level to cast the spell would be left in The North, and Minrah just toasted one right after the Thundershields toasted another.

Plane Shift seems common-ish. Not so much that a bunch of commoners would be using it, but common enough to be accessible to adventurers. The mid-level (going by how easily they were defeated) Evil adventuring party who attacked Roy and Horace in Celestia used it, for example.

And wizards can also cast Plane Shift, because Z cast it on V.

It’s just an odd idea, the living visiting the afterlife to relax or to visit deceased family and friends.

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Originally Posted by LadyEowyn

Plane Shift seems common-ish. Not so much that a bunch of commoners would be using it, but common enough to be accessible to adventurers. The mid-level (going by how easily they were defeated) Evil adventuring party who attacked Roy and Horace in Celestia used it, for example.

And wizards can also cast Plane Shift, because Z cast it on V.

It’s just an odd idea, the living visiting the afterlife to relax or to visit deceased family and friends.

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Given that the afterlives are about giving up attachments, even if one did, it seems like they would have diminishing returns on satisfaction with every visit. Not to mention knowing your spouse is having fun at the tavern of infinite one-night stands, which can last for weeks on end.

Celestia is heaven for the dead, not the living.

It’s also possible the living are only allowed on the first level(s) of each plane.

Isn't Plane Shift a rather inexact method of travel, anyway? I

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Originally Posted by LadyEowyn

If you can vacation in an afterlife while still alive, doesn’t that kind of defeat the point of it being an afterlife? Like, could Roy drop by Celestia and visit his little brother any time via Plane Shift?

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Originally Posted by brian 333

Sure, assuming you have a cleric of high enough level to cast the spell for you and a way to get back.

A simplistic math exercise should clarify the issue:

If 2 million characters have a cleric level then
200,000 are level 2
20,000 are level 3
2000 are level 4
200 are level 5
20 are level 6
And 2 are level 7

In order to have 2 NPCs in the world which can cast level 5 spells you need 200 million clerics in the world.

If 1 in 10 NPCs have an adventuring class level and 1 in 6 of those are clerics then the world population needs to exceed 12 trillion.

Now, I'm sure the world population isn't that high for all sentient races combined, and we have seen multiple high level casters, so the OotSverse doesn't work on a linear scale. However, even a curve which allows multiple higher level casters would insure they are scattered around the world and difficult to access unless you have a good friend who owes you a favor.

As a side bet, I'm betting 1/3 of the world's highest level clerics are at the Godsmoot. Fewer than 100 clerics of high enough level to cast the spell would be left in The North, and Minrah just toasted one right after the Thundershields toasted another.

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Sorry, but your math doesn't makes sense. Roy is high level enough to be able to find a cleric capable of 5th level spells just by casually visiting a random tavern.

Unless the Plot doesn't calls for it, of course. Then he could visit all the taverns and temples of the Multiverse and be unable to find any cleric higher than Level 8.

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Originally Posted by The Pilgrim

Roy is high level enough to be able to find a cleric capable of 5th level spells just by casually visiting a random tavern.

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You're taking Tarquin's word for that, you realize that?

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Originally Posted by The Giant

The idea that you can walk into any tavern and 2-5 adventurers of high level will be there is literally a joke. It may be how it works in OOTS, but only because OOTS is a parody. It's making fun of the fact that because every D&D game needs to start with the players "meeting" each other, lazy DMs have them all walk into the same tavern at the same time looking for work. The truth is, in an average D&D world, you can walk into a tavern and find 2-5 adventurers under 5th level—people who are just starting their career and looking for any lead they can get—and then it gets harder the higher level you want. No wizard of Vaarsuvius' level hangs out in a tavern waiting to be hired by a kingdom to go rough up the baron next door, though. If he wants money, he plane shifts to the Elemental Plane of Earth and digs out a diamond the size of a watermelon.

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Originally Posted by Fyraltari

You're taking Tarquin's word for that, you realize that?

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Nope. As you kindly pointed out, I'm taking The Giant's word for that.

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Originally Posted by The Giant

The idea that you can walk into any tavern and 2-5 adventurers of high level will be there is literally a joke. It may be how it works in OOTS, but only because OOTS is a parody (...)

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And what world are we talking about here? Yes, the OOTS World. :smalltongue:

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Originally Posted by LadyEowyn

The 2017 calendar featured Arboria (Chaotic Good?), where Julio is vacationing. It’s basically partyville.

If you can vacation in an afterlife while still alive, doesn’t that kind of defeat the point of it being an afterlife? Like, could Roy drop by Celestia and visit his little brother any time via Plane Shift?

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It's actually canon that some afterlives in the D&D cosmology (in some settings) have sizable populations of still living mortals on them. Some of which live their whole lives from birth until death there.

What happens to them in the afterlife when the world is remade? Do the afterlives, there with their gods, end too?

My bet is that nothing happens. By the time the new world is done, those souls will have already fused with the Plane.

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Originally Posted by LadyEowyn

Plane Shift seems common-ish. Not so much that a bunch of commoners would be using it, but common enough to be accessible to adventurers. The mid-level (going by how easily they were defeated) Evil adventuring party who attacked Roy and Horace in Celestia used it, for example.

And wizards can also cast Plane Shift, because Z cast it on V.

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Well, if we were to step away from drama's direct influence in OotS in particular....Any settlement with over 12,000 people that's generated as described in the 3.5 DMG is guaranteed to have three clerics capable of casting plane shift. Over 25,000 people and it'll have at least four clerics, as well as four wizards high enough level to cast plane shift (assuming they have or can get the spell in their spellbook, and haven't barred Conjuration like Vaarsuvius did), and possibly a few sorcerers. Finding them and/or convincing them to cast on your behalf might be a challenge, mind you....

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Originally Posted by LadyEowyn

It’s just an odd idea, the living visiting the afterlife to relax or to visit deceased family and friends.

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I feel like it's kind of a side effect of having outsiders and dead souls congregate similarly. Sure, it's very efficient use of (sur)real estate to have a deity, their agents and their follower's souls all in the same place; but preventing visits with that would mean cutting out the high-level high-fantasy "rescue this super-important person/thing from demons in the Abyss itself" plots. And the somewhat more outlandish "convince this legendary person to assent to being returned to life to combat the newly-returned threat from that same legend" plots, I suppose....

And as the Giant has said....

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Originally Posted by The Giant

D&D cosmology is utterly incoherent, being a pastiche on several real world religions that's then strained through a fundamentally incompatible alignment system where Good and Evil are both valid life choices with equally powerful patrons. D&D writers have been trying to make it make sense for 40 years; it still doesn't. My version doesn't either. It's good enough for the story to get where it's going.

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Originally Posted by thekingofb

What happens to them in the afterlife when the world is remade? Do the afterlives, there with their gods, end too?

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The souls in the afterlives slowly dissipate and fuse with them, thus providing energy for the gods to help tide them over. However, I'd imagine there's a quick round of nuking to mop up any "squatters" (so to speak) who inexplicably are able to survive through the world's end by one means or another. And they also rework the world to match the new theme, so even if someone (and/or their family tree) endured that long they might not be compatible with the new physics.

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Originally Posted by Squire Doodad

The souls in the afterlives slowly dissipate and fuse with them, thus providing energy for the gods to help tide them over. However, I'd imagine there's a quick round of nuking to mop up any "squatters" (so to speak) who inexplicably are able to survive through the world's end by one means or another. And they also rework the world to match the new theme, so even if someone (and/or their family tree) endured that long they might not be compatible with the new physics.

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I feel like the souls in the afterlives survive, though, considering how Thor was talking about "cashing them out" which implies that the souls survive in some way. I think souls are less like glucose and more like ATP, i.e. instead of a one-time source from food, they're a renewable reusable source of energy.