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[Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
"Keep those tentacles away!"
"Actually, that one's all me." - Tentanova the Tentastical Shadow
Game Rule Information
Abilities: Dexterity, To hit faster, be quicker, and generally be skilled.
Alignment: despite belief, tentacle based anyones need not be neither creepy, nor chaotic, nor evil. an Tentastical Shadow can be chaotic good, chaotic neutral, true neutral, Lawful neutral, Lawful evil, or neutral evil.
Hit Die: d8
Class Skills: The Shadow's class skills are... Balance, Bluff, Climb, Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Sense Motive, slight of hand, Spot, Swim, Tumble, Use Rope
Skill Points at 1st Level: ( 6+ Int Modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6+ Int Modifier
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1st|+0
|+2
|+2
|+0
|Quick Tentacle, Fast Movement, Tentastical Insight
2nd|+1
|+3
|+3
|+0
|Evasion
3rd|+2
|+3
|+3
|+1
|Trap Sense +1
4th|+3
|+4
|+3
|+1
|Uncanny Dodge, The Great Tentacle
5th|+3
|+4
|+4
|+1
| Tentacle Slam +1d8, Tentastical Insight
6th|+4
|+5
|+5
|+2
|Improved Evasion, Trap Sense +2
7th|+5
|+5
|+5
|+2
|
8th|+6
|+6
|+6
|+2
|Improved Uncanny Dodge, The Great Tentacle, Fast Movement
9th|+6
|+6
|+6
|+3
|Trap Sense +3
10th|+7
|+7
|+7
|+3
|Tentacle Slam +2d8, Tentastical Insight, Tentagon
11th|+8
|+7
|+7
|+3
|
12th|+9
|+8
|+8
|+4
|Trap Sense +4, The Great Tentacle
13th|+9
|+8
|+8
|+8
|Tentacle Slam +3d8
14th|+10
|+9
|+9
|+4
|
15th|+11
|+9
|+9
|+5
| Trap Sense +5, Tentacle Slam +4d8, Tentastical Insight
16th|+12
|+10
|+10
|+5
|The Great Tentacle, Fast Movement
17th|+12
|+10
|+10
|+5
|Tentacle Slam +5d8
18th|+13
|+11
|+11
|+6
|Trap Sense +6
19th|+14
|+11
|+11
|+6
|Tentacle Slam +6d8
20th|+15
|+12
|+12
|+6
|Tentastical Insight, Tentagon, The Great Tentacle[/table]
Class Features: All of the following are class features of the Tentastical Shadow
Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
Tentacular Knights are proficient with Light armor. No shields, and simple, and Martial weapons.
Quick Tentacle (Ex): The Tentastical Shadow can swiftly change one of her limbs into a long rubbery tentacle. The tentacle has +10 feet of reach +5ft per 10 class levels To make it more clear this is in addition to their normal reach (and not replacing it). a +2 to initiative per 3 class levels, +2 Strength (From your own) per 5 class levels, +2 Climb per 3 class levels, +2 Grapple per 3 class levels, and does 1d6 per 3 Tentastical Shadow level damage on a strike (+Str as usual for melee). The Quick Tentacle possesses the feats Improved Grab and Improved Trip.
Other then making a quick grapple, trip, or attack, this spell is most often used as a 'rope' by the Shadow. For example one could use the tentacle to grab a tree branch and swing over a pit.
The Quick Tentacle can be used to aid in jump checks. (+Shadow level to the roll), and can be used to mimic effects of Spider Climb.
Fast Movement (Ex): The same energies that allow you use of Quick Tentacle cause your muscle to be denser. Fluff wise, you have more strength for less obvious muscle. Mechanically, You have +10ft to all movement modes. +20ft at level eight, +30ft at level sixteen.
Tentastical Insight (Ex): Your connection to the Tentacle Lords of the great Tentacle Plane gives you some benefits...
1st: +2 insight bonus to Knowledge: Planes, Hide, Slight of Hand, AC, and Reflex saves.
5th: +4, +2: Move Silently
10th: +6, +4, +2 Climb
15th: +8, +6, +4, +2 Tumble
20th: +10, +8, +6, +4. +2 Escape Artist
New unnamed bonuses are improvements to previously listed +2 bonuses.
Evasion: At 2nd level and higher, a Tentastical Shadow can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the Tentastical Shadow is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless Tentastical Shadow does not gain the benefit of evasion.
Trap Sense: At 3rd level, a Tentastical Shadow gains an intuitive sense that alerts her to danger from traps, giving her a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise to +2 when the Tentastical Shadow reaches 6th level, to +3 when she reaches 9th level, to +4 when she reaches 12th level, to +5 at 15th, and to +6 at 18th level.
Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.
Uncanny Dodge: Starting at 4th level, a Tentastical Shadow can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.
If a Tentastical Shadow already has uncanny dodge from a different class she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.
Improved Uncanny Dodge: A Tentastical Shadow of 8th level or higher can no longer be flanked.
This defense denies another the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more uncanny dodge granting levels than the target does.
If a character already has uncanny dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum level required to flank the character.
Tentacle Slam: The Tentastical Shadow can strike out with her weapon using the might of her Quick Tentacle to aid in her attack sacrificing Reach for bundled power, it gains listed bonus damage but has a normal melee range rather then the normal Quick Tentacle 15ft. This is not precision damage, so the enemy need not be Flanked or Flat Footed.
The Great Tentacle (Sp): The Tentastical Shadow can call the Great Tentacle to take her away, the The Great Tentacle can carry you away into its domain, and out to another location. The Great Tentacle is usable Charisma modifier +1/4th class levels times per day, and can only be called from a 5ft area of shadow, from which it has a reach of 20ft.
At fourth level, it can take you Cha mod x10 feet as a movement equivalent action.
At eighth level, it can take you Cha mod x 100 feet as a standard action, or x10 as a swift action.
At twelfth level, it can take you Cha mod = miles as a full round action, x100 as a standard, or x10 as a swift action. It can now make a grapple check (Shadow level +8) to grab an unwilling victim and take them Cha mod x 10 feet, or take willing subjects within x100 feet.
At Sixteenth level, it can take you Cha mod x10 = miles as a full round action. x100 as a movement equivalent action, or x10 as a free action. And can now grapple unwilling targets to take them cha mod x100 feet or take willing subjects within ca mod = miles.
At Twentieth level, it an take you Cha mod x100 miles with 5 rounds to call a larger tentacle, x10 miles as a standard action, x100 feet as a swift action, x10 feet as a free action. And can now grapple unwilling targets to take them cha mod = miles, or take willing targets within cha mod x10 miles.
In addition, at twelfth level you gain more favor with the Great Tentacle, and it can leave foes in its realm of horror effectively killing them if they cannot Plane Shift. There, they are brutally used as a host for the reproduction of more tentacle life forms for the rest of they're lifespan until they manage to leave, are killed, or are somehow rescued.
Tentagon (Ex): The Tentastical Shadow can use Quick Tentacle four times at once, attacking all around her, or two at once against one target. She can use them all at once with no penalty, similar to a Hydra's bite attacks. At level twenty, you can use it eight times at once for a total of eight tentacles that can strike out all around her, or up to four against one target, also with no penalty.
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
You. . . Like tentacles, huh?
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Curious
You. . . Like tentacles, huh?
I think you're jumping to conclusions.
Also, it's really nice to see a Roguish class with such weird features. I've always been annoyed by the monopoly casters have on "turning into strange things" when the more mundane classes could benefit more from it.
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Curious
You. . . Like tentacles, huh?
well..
Quote:
Originally Posted by
babus
I think you're jumping to conclusions.
Also, it's really nice to see a Roguish class with such weird features. I've always been annoyed by the monopoly casters have on "turning into strange things" when the more mundane classes could benefit more from it.
yea. Casters are a lower priority methinks. Thats why my tentacle-mage has Growth as a feature, rather then Character-Monster conversion like my tentacle-fighter or this tentacle-rogue.
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
babus
I think you're jumping to conclusions.
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
Concerning the class itself... not a lot to say, as it's more straightforward than the other material I've seen you post. It seems fairly solid, movement bonuses are nice, though I guess I could say that it almost seems more geared for infiltration and assassination than party play.
Perhaps add a progression to Great Tentacle that lets you drag others with you? Perhaps even less than willing others?
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
babus
Perhaps add a progression to Great Tentacle that lets you drag others with you? Perhaps even less than willing others?
hm.. I'll see if I can't fix something up.
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
One basic problem with the class, is there are no options within the class. Adding the ability to have different types of tentacles based on a path early on could help fill some of the dead levels.
The alignments seem fairly arbitrary, why can't a tentastical shadow be chaotic evil? The great tentacle is also not really defined, from the class feature it seems to be a sort of deity, but there is not fluff to support this.
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
It's good, though perhaps a bit overcomplicated? As it's a core aspect of the class, you're allowed to make it a bit powerful, especially as a non-damaging ability (assuming you're not intending to use this to teleport people high up into the air)...
How about making the max distance standard, increasing based on class level, and making you the focus of the teleport? So the tentacle doesn't grapple them, you do, and if you have them in a grapple for say, maybe a full round, they get dragged with you. No need to factor in anything too fancy, and forcing you to go along with the target means fewer player shenanigans of dropping their target in a spike pit. As you increase in level, the distance does as well, and you can do this quicker, but adding a roll to pull this off, with a natural one resulting in the bad kind of shenanigans. You could even make an activation roll standard, and have penalties be based on increasing the speed of the action, number of people traveling with you, etc, with a bonus to the check based on your class level + Charisma mod.
Also, have you considered expanding the Quick Tentacles assisted movement abilities for some Thiefy acrobatics?
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dumbledore lives
One basic problem with the class, is there are no options within the class. Adding the ability to have different types of tentacles based on a path early on could help fill some of the dead levels.
The alignments seem fairly arbitrary, why can't a tentastical shadow be chaotic evil? The great tentacle is also not really defined, from the class feature it seems to be a sort of deity, but there is not fluff to support this.
Not everything has to be defined... For all you know there could be tiny fairies in aome world called Charliesvill that patches your spell requests through...
The great tentacle is just a tentacle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
babus
It's good, though perhaps a bit overcomplicated? As it's a core aspect of the class, you're allowed to make it a bit powerful, especially as a non-damaging ability (assuming you're not intending to use this to teleport people high up into the air)...
How about making the max distance standard, increasing based on class level, and making you the focus of the teleport? So the tentacle doesn't grapple them, you do, and if you have them in a grapple for say, maybe a full round, they get dragged with you. No need to factor in anything too fancy, and forcing you to go along with the target means fewer player shenanigans of dropping their target in a spike pit. As you increase in level, the distance does as well, and you can do this quicker, but adding a roll to pull this off, with a natural one resulting in the bad kind of shenanigans. You could even make an activation roll standard, and have penalties be based on increasing the speed of the action, number of people traveling with you, etc, with a bonus to the check based on your class level + Charisma mod.
Also, have you considered expanding the Quick Tentacles assisted movement abilities for some Thiefy acrobatics?
How is that overcomplicated especially in comparison to your much larger block'o text. What do you mean expand to assist movement... You can already use it to reach 15ft distances, with +Climb skill. dunno anything on "Thiefy acrobatics"
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
Well, I more mean that getting into the math in terms of distance and having it change based on how fast you perform the teleport, or whether the target is willing or unwilling might be unnecessary, as you could instead just make it more difficult to make the jump, depending on those factors without changing how far they move. It seems a bit clearer after you cleaned it up, however, so I think it's perhaps fine either way.
In terms of "thiefy acrobatics", I just meant giving bonuses to jump (Edit: Tentacle propelled leaping and all that), or possibly allowing for some ceiling crawling at later levels, if you so desire.
And no, not everything needs to be explained, though with all these Tentacle oriented classes, I'd be interested in seeing fluff tying them together in some way.
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
babus
In terms of "thiefy acrobatics", I just meant giving bonuses to jump (Edit: Tentacle propelled leaping and all that), or possibly allowing for some ceiling crawling at later levels, if you so desire.
And no, not everything needs to be explained, though with all these Tentacle oriented classes, I'd be interested in seeing fluff tying them together in some way.
Ah. Sure I can do some stuffs for that.
In my mind, all the Tentacles come from Thuul, a realm of tentacles and dark waters in which the entire planet is a single, planetary sized tentacled life form with many smaller tentacle life forms living on it. Tentacles of Thuul vary in size, to the point that there are even tiny sized fully functional tentacles. Its mind is vast, and its fully aware of each individual tentacle, and can think, effectively, trillions of things at any one time and as such it can appear that every tentacle has its own mind, and Independent thought. Thuul is something between an Overdiety and a 20 ranked divine, It cares little for mortal affairs, but does like to pass time by spreading its influence and kin across the planes in the form of magic in which Thuul can temporarily send some of its minions, or personal tentacles through spatial rifts to perform various effects. Thuul is True Neutral, and doesn't care much for anything but passing its own boredom by helping casters out or even granting permanent effects, It does gain some benefits, such as spreading its seed on other planets through casters that use things such as Tentacular Implantation Usually its quite easy as the caster's own energies do most the work.
The Great Tentacle would be one of Thuul's smaller personal tentacles, temporarily reaching through the void to physically take them out of they're own location, into Thuul's realm, and back out to be placed where they wished to go. The transition is apparently instantaneous, and indeed, once the tentacle takes them away, no time has passed from the movement of point A to point B.
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
I like it, it's very appropriate for the far realms, making the classes, in part, symptoms of an infection from another world and also manages to reference The Beast With a Billion Backs. The implications of what it's doing are there, but it's subtle enough to not be creepy in an off-putting way.
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
Alright, i'm seeing a few things there.
I'm seeing a class that could be the tentacular rogue or shadow dancer, but it ends up being another melee-fighter.
If you want to call it "shadow", maybe you should get in a few shadow powers
Now let me squeeze out this brainfart...
First, the class lacks options, a lot, in fact, this would be much more balanced as a 10 lvl prestige class than a 20 level base class, and even then it maybe light on options.
Second, you have missed replacing a "spell" reference in the text of Quick Tentacle, it misses damage type (bludgeoning ?), and honestly, please find a better phrase for the spider climb effect...
Third, Fast Movement needs progression. Most "fast" classes allow up to +30ft over 10 levels
Fourth, Tentacular Insight seems to give +10 AC and ref saves , which is good now for the skill, you end up with :
+10 Knowledge: Planes, AC, and Reflex saves.
+8 Escape artist
+6 Hide
+4 Move Silently
+2 Survival
Sorry but survival +2 seems to say "i didn't know what to put there"
Now if this class needs stealth to do its job (it's a shadow after all), you should give better bonuses to hide and move silently, they are much more needed than knowledge.
Also, putting the AC and reflex bonus in a seperate ability would allow you to put in more fluff (just an ability name is often enough to flesh out the fluff) even if you keep the same progression.
Fifth Tentacular Slam, no big deal but you are mixing sneak attack and precision damage, precision damage is a type of damage that doesn't work on undeads,oozes and such
sneak attack is a rogue feature that deals precision damage and needs flanking or flat-footedness to trigger
Sixth, the Great tentacle. This looks like a "fixed" shadow step. The shadow dancer would need something like this. Your class would probably gain more benefits from manifesting more tentacles progressively, get multi attack, and finally have tentagon remove all related penalties.
What misses there is the ability to manifest tentacles through the shadows, like all those horror movies where you know the guy passing the shadow is going to get grabbed :smallwink:
Think about it, you're watching the guard, and commanding your tentacles to grab him 30ft away from where you hide, that would be a nice touch.
Tentagon seems big to me, over capstone. You get to deal 8 full attacks in a round (totalling 24 straight attacks, 6d8+1d6+20 each...), at will. With a decent strength, that's mighty big, should you hit you could total 144d8+24d6+480+24*str mod, average over 1000 dmg in a round. Did i say you can do it at will ? Did i say it was OP ?
All in all i'd say this would be a terrific 10 level prestige class, but IMHO you should rework it.
As i re-read my post, i'm finding it a bit harsh, i liked the theme, the fluff , and i'm just a big fan of tentacle thinguies :smallwink:
I'm just trying to point out possible/probable flaws, don't take it too badly, this is good work. You have the potential to make it great. :smallsmile:
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
The class looks great so far, but the damage from the basic attacks seems a little low; only 7d6+20+str at level 20, or three attacks at 7d6+20+str, at least until level 20 when it becomes a little over powered, 56d8+160+str seems a little high for the tentagon ability, even if you have to roll an attack roll for each attack. Also the +10 ft. speed increase seems fine to me, the only base classes I can think of with speed increases have +10ft, and +180ft., there is even a feat that can boost your speed by another +5ft., so 10ft at 1st level seems fine.
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
Tentagon now starts at four tentacles at tenth level. then eight at twentieth.
Fast movement now grows +10ft at eighth, and sixteenth.
The Great Tentacle can now keep its captives if so chosen, at level twelve. I note that it can only be called from shadows, which was intended but left out it seems.
But thats not why they;re called "Shadow" Shadow is just a typical name for stealthy, night time killer people.
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
Good job.
You also reworked the skill bonuses from Tentastical Insight. Much better.
I recommend you ditch Climb in favor of sleight of hand,or disable device. Climb is already covered in Quick Tentacle (climb bonus+spider climb), and that would bring in a more "Shadow" touch.
Reminds me, in the class skill list, you give Disable Device, but the character doesn't have Search (to find the traps), they often come together.
Hope that helps.
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
Perhaps as an added bonus to the capstone, you could give the tentacles the ability to wield light weapons? Just because DR/Slash or Pierce would bother you a little. (Give them all daggers. Get around that prevent bludgeoning no problem). Another problem with DR is that your tentacles (as far as I saw) don't get considered magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming DR. So maybe at level 5 or 10 you could make them Magic Weapons, because DR/Magic is very very very common (even monks get it)
Also, the Tentastical Insight bonus seems nice, but I disagree that having a tentacle should provide you an insight bonus to your AC. It's not like the tentacle is telling you to dodge, it's just actively deflecting attacks. Makes more sense as a shield bonus (Which you aren't proficient with anyway, and then if you get an actual insight bonus to AC, they stack. So crunch wise it's beneficial as well)
Class looks good. Between the Octopian Lord, the Tentastical Knight and this, you've got the rogue, the mage, and the warrior all tentacle-d up. Good show, Star
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
Actually,i believe Tentastical Insight comes from actual insight given to you by the Great Tentacle Lords, moments before the action is taken. Kind of having a prescience of how events will unfold. Therefore the insight bonuses are actually adequate.
DR shouldn't be a problem when you deal level x D6 damage with a tentacle.
DR20/- is taken care of at level 6 (6x3.5 average damage= 21), and i don't remember a single CR6 monster having DR20/-. By level 20 each tentacle strikes for an average 70 damage (20x3.5) which is quite enough to warrant bypassing any DR whatsoever.
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NeoSeraphi
Perhaps as an added bonus to the capstone, you could give the tentacles the ability to wield light weapons? Just because DR/Slash or Pierce would bother you a little. (Give them all daggers. Get around that prevent bludgeoning no problem). Another problem with DR is that your tentacles (as far as I saw) don't get considered magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming DR. So maybe at level 5 or 10 you could make them Magic Weapons, because DR/Magic is very very very common (even monks get it)
Also, the Tentastical Insight bonus seems nice, but I disagree that having a tentacle should provide you an insight bonus to your AC. It's not like the tentacle is telling you to dodge, it's just actively deflecting attacks. Makes more sense as a shield bonus (Which you aren't proficient with anyway, and then if you get an actual insight bonus to AC, they stack. So crunch wise it's beneficial as well)
Class looks good. Between the Octopian Lord, the Tentastical Knight and this, you've got the rogue, the mage, and the warrior all tentacle-d up. Good show, Star
Considered magic... hm.........
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Delegreg
Actually,i believe Tentastical Insight comes from actual insight given to you by the Great Tentacle Lords, moments before the action is taken. Kind of having a prescience of how events will unfold. Therefore the insight bonuses are actually adequate.
^- this. The Great Tentacle Lords are all knowing. they're insight so great that the mere capability of invoking the Great Tentacle, like the Shadows do in "the Great Tentacle", is enough connection for they're influence to part some of that insight to the Tentastical Shadow.
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
Well, I seem to have missed this thread so far. Anyway, just some thoughts looking at it.
Quick Tentacle: You might want to change the 15 foot reach to a 10 foot increase in reach, for those that are either large or have taken pains to increase their normal reach above 5 feet.
Also, I may be reading it wrong, but it looks like the base damage of the tentacle is 1d6 per class level, which seems a bit high for its progression.
As for adding options, you could try adding in some abilities where you can choose between choices oriented toward more combat focused use of the tentacle and more utility focused use.
Owrtho
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Owrtho
Well, I seem to have missed this thread so far. Anyway, just some thoughts looking at it.
Quick Tentacle: You might want to change the 15 foot reach to a 10 foot increase in reach, for those that are either large or have taken pains to increase their normal reach above 5 feet.
Also, I may be reading it wrong, but it looks like the base damage of the tentacle is 1d6 per class level, which seems a bit high for its progression.
fix'd.
lessened.
Quote:
As for adding options, you could try adding in some abilities where you can choose between choices oriented toward more combat focused use of the tentacle and more utility focused use.
Owrtho
I'll think on it.
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cipherthe3vil
fix'd.
lessened.
Might want to change that to: The tentacle has +10 feet of reach +5ft per 10 class levels...
To make it more clear this is in addition to their normal reach (and not replacing it).
Owrtho
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Owrtho
Might want to change that to: The tentacle has +10 feet of reach +5ft per 10 class levels...
To make it more clear this is in addition to their normal reach (and not replacing it).
Owrtho
Isn't that how it is now? *Looks*
..
?
Oh well, I'll copypasta anyway.
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Re: [Base Class]Tentastical Shadow
Well, the previous wording would more likely be read as it setting the reach to 10 feet, then adding the +5 per 10 levels to that, and completely ignoring the base reach of the creature. This wording makes it more clear that it is in addition to ones default reach. If you wanted to be really thorough, you could add something in parentheses noting that for a creature with 5 feet of reach it results in 15 feet total (but better worded).
Owrtho
