Printable View
Is there a system that handles a concept like this well? The best I've ever seen attempted is in the new Shadowrun PC games, but I think it would be a cool thing to work into a table top D&D experience. Thoughts? Ideas? Do I need to hit up the homebrew threads?
Does it Well? I don't know if I'd call anything in Rifts "done well", but it has a magic user class called the ley line walker.
A lot depends on what you want out of them, of course.
Rifts/Palladium has one version of ley lines. Being near them boosts the power of spells and provides a pool of magic points that you can draw on, making spellcasting much easier and more potent. The idea is sound, but the mechanics are not well-explained. They do frequently make summoning easier, and make dimensional rifts easier to open.
Hackmaster has ley lines in the first entry of the Spell Slinger's Guide (you'll get a lot more if you're familiar with at least Hackmaster Basic). Ley lines there are a lot harder to find, and more potent. A ley line will give you more spell points, reduce the cost of all your spells, make it easier to improve spells, let you cast spells faster, with harder saves, learn spells easier, and even use magic items more cheaply.
In Shadowrun: Returns, they make spells more potent.
But what kind of system are you looking at, and what do you want them to do?
A d20 based system (not necessarily the d20 system), D&D-esque at least, probably with a Vancian spell system (although that's mostly because really what else is out there). And I want them to empower spell casting, add a bit of a tactical angle to combat and give the spell casters something to do other than try to stay out of reach. Ideally the lay line itself would do more than add numbers (+damage or +duration), maybe depending on the lay line it would allow the caster to apply some meta magic for free or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Hall
Here's some ideas:
- Ley lines do 'leak' from other dimensions, meaning that summoning spells have a chance to summon the wrong thing or to summon extra, but are usually easier. Planar tourists might have a chance to show up with random spells. So might be good for some casters, particularly those who are persuasive, and bad for others who don't want extra bodies on the battlefield.
- Ley lines help one type of magic, but hinder others. Different ley lines might be attuned to different types, and have varying effects.
- They could give a chance to avoid having to use up a spell slot, but with some significant drawbacks such as being slowly consumed by magical fire, glowing all weird, or even turning into a different race.
- Those trained in using ley lines can't use them to cast magic, but can fling raw spell stuff around in ways that might mimic the shield or magic missile spell.
It would be a simple thing to ask players to roll Arcana to achieve a small bonus to their Save DC (or non-D&D equivalent) by finding, and standing on, a leyline. Actually, that's a new house rule from now on (sadly, my game has no casters - so not a particularly useful houserule).
It was. The second edition setting Birthright did so, and was a key part of the settings magic system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obscuraphile
There is a third party D&D 3.5/d20 adaptation of Birthright, so that might be of interest. 5e adaptation is in the works but nothing on magic yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Sun Gnome
ETA: The leylines are in the Realm Magic part (chapter 7), not in Chapter 3 "Magic".
As for what else is out there? 3.5 Psionics is a fantastic system that would work well with Ley Lines and the idea of free metamagic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obscuraphile
Working from there, what if you have "Fonts" along a ley line, analogous to the various places of power in the Shadowrun Returns game (and its sequels)? These fonts are places where the ley line touches strongly on the world, and can be accessed for benefits... but the benefits vary from font to font.
Some fonts may allow you to spend more than your level in points on a power... you have to supply the power, but they unlock more potential.
Others may give you free use of certain metapsionic feats, or have a store of power points that you can use for any purpose. Or recharge your psionic focus automatically each round. Or give you access to a certain power when standing there.
Yeah, that's the one. Ley Lines were really important in the system of magic used in that world. Basically, certain types of terrain (Ancient Forests, Mountains) have more magical energy (Mebhaighl) than other types of terrain, and magic gathers in certain points in a province.
By using Ley Lines, True Wizards (those that had a bloodline and therefore could cast spells from all schools that were higher than 2nd level) who were regents of their Realm could use the energy from a magic rich province while they were in a magic poor region to cast hugely powerful spells (Realm Magic).
For the Pathfinder system (and largerly 3.5 compatible) there's ley line material in the very good third party book Deep Magic. It is designed to interact with the standard Vancian spellcasting. There's a lot of other good stuff in the book also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obscuraphile
I once attempted to introduce ley lines into 2e D&D. It was a dismal failure for lots of reasons, but one of the simplest was I failed to make the idea work with Vancian magic. I will not say that you cannot use Vancain magic along with ley lines, but the two are not an easy to make work together.
IMHO, ley line magic works better in magic systems that are more open then standard D&D. Spellpoint sorcerers would fit the fell of drawing magic from the world around you much better then normal sorcerers, let alone standard wizards.
The Ley Line magic presented for Pathfinder in Deep magic requires a feat to use. It allows the character to gain the benefits of any ley line within 1 mile of their location; and recover 1 spell per day. You also gains access to some new metamagic feats that require you to be within 1 mile of a ley line in order to use them. While it works, it doesn't do much to make me excited about ley line magic, and doesn't really fit my image of "harvesting raw magical energy." But I will place most of this on the standard Vancian magic system, not the book or the writers. Deep Magic has lots of ideas for magic to harvest.
If one were to use Ley Lines in a Vancian system, you might go with a level boost (i.e. "You cast all spells as if you were 2 levels higher")... but you might also go with a % chance that the spell is not expended.
Or grant a random meta magic effect: Stand on this ley line, and your spell is maximised.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Hall
That's propably a terrible idea =)
Personal prejudice... I think Vancian, I think AD&D, not WotC-editions... adding a couple levels to the caster level isn't that different from a meta-magic feat, after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen
Well - yes and no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Hall
It's a question of how abusable it is. For +2 caster levels, a player will eventually ask 'so that makes this a 12d6 fireball, right?'
That's not so bad.
My case is different. My player would ask 'so that means my empowered spell is further empowered - 50x1,5x1,5=112 damage, right?'
It's not that blaster mages are OP, as such, more that ... well, players will inevitably be more inventive than I am, the little pests =)
That's the whole problem with feats in general. To a power gamer, any feat is either required or useless. In this context, ley lines are an easy way to pump up the power of a low-level wizard NPC in rare cases (rare enough player don't take the feat) simply increase the power of wizards in party vs wizard fights (especially when the wizard is the boss and chooses the location), or simply giving the wizard more power (because ley lines are everywhere).Quote:
Originally Posted by lightningcat
I'd recommend leaving them without the feat. But that is my problem with feats in general (more specifically 3e/Pathfinder, and it is a Pathfinder suggestion. 5e seems to avoid this). They basically take 'you can do this cool thing' and turn it into 'nobody can do this cool thing' without wasting a feat on a rare case. Seriously, when you suggest your character "grabs the chandelier and swings down to swashbuckle" and the DM says "you don't have the brachiation feat, you can't do that" fantasy roleplaying dies [more than] a little. Don't make something a feat unless you want to ban it from the table.
This is a cool idea. I hope you don't mind if I expand on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling
Perhaps ley lines are "cracks" in the fabric of reality where another dimension has collided with our own, the ley lines have similar shape as cracks in glass panel and there could be a nexus somewhere that is known to be a home for supernatural elements and portals to other worlds.
They could also extend into the ethereal plane where they appear as an abyss and if you step into it you fall into the astral plane with a chance to end up on either some random inner or even outer plane.
Although they aren't ley lines as such, there is Node Magic in the Forgotten Realms which has some rules and feats around magical nodes. Basically, you've got class 1 through class 6 nodes. The node grants any caster within it a certain number of spells as a bonus to anything they've already got, and also allows metamagic of X number of levels to be applied to a spell from that node. Evil spellcasters can increase the CL of the spell by being closer to the centre of the node and whatnot.