Red Mage [D&D 3.5, Base Class]

What follows is essentially a tweaked Adept that combines some of the Bard, some of the Healer, some of the Warmage, and a few other disparate D&D concepts to create a faithful reconstruction of Final Fantasy's Red Mage. Here's hoping it turns out to be interesting.

The Red Mage

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/r.../FireSword.jpg

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d8

Level	BAB	Fort	Ref	Will	Special	0lvl	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th
1st	+0	+0	+2	+2	Red Magic, Panache	4	1+1	—	—	—	—
2nd	+1	+0	+3	+3	Combat Casting	5	1+1	—	—	—	—
3rd	+2	+1	+3	+3	Healer's Mercy, Warmage's Edge	6	2+2	—	—	—	—
4th	+3	+1	+4	+4	Spell Power +1	6	2+2	0+0	—	—	—
5th	+3	+1	+4	+4		7	2+2	1+1	—	—	—
6th	+4	+2	+5	+5	Bonus Feat	7	2+2	1+1	—	—	—
7th	+5	+2	+5	+5		8	3+3	2+2	—	—	—
8th	+6/+1	+2	+6	+6	Spell Power +2	8	3+3	2+2	0+0	—	—
9th	+6/+1	+3	+6	+6		8	3+3	2+2	1+1	—	—
10th	+7/+2	+3	+7	+7	Bonus Feat	8	3+3	2+2	1+1	—	—
11th	+8/+3	+3	+7	+7		8	3+3	3+3	2+2	—	—
12th	+9/+4	+4	+8	+8	Spell Power +3	8	3+3	3+3	2+2	0+0	—
13th	+9/+4	+4	+8	+8		8	3+3	3+3	2+2	1+1	—
14th	+10/+5	+4	+9	+9	Bonus Feat	8	3+3	3+3	2+2	1+1	—
15th	+11/+6/+1	+5	+9	+9		8	3+3	3+3	3+3	2+2	—
16th	+12/+7/+2	+5	+10	+10	Spell Power +4	8	3+3	3+3	3+3	2+2	0+0
17th	+12/+7/+2	+5	+10	+10		8	3+3	3+3	3+3	2+2	1+1
18th	+13/+8/+3	+6	+11	+11	Bonus Feat	8	3+3	3+3	3+3	2+2	1+1
19th	+14/+9/+4	+6	+11	+11		8	3+3	3+3	3+3	3+3	2+2
20th	+15/+10/+5	+6	+12	+12	Spell Power +5	8	3+3	3+3	3+3	3+3	2+2

Class Skills (4 + Int modifier): Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Heal, Jump, Knowledge (Any), Listen, Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Speak Language, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival, Swim, and Use Magic Device.

Weapon & Armor Proficiencies
A Red Mage is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the longsword, rapier, sap, short sword, shortbow, and whip. Red Mages are proficient with light armor and shields (except Tower Shields).

A Red Mage can cast Red Mage spells while wearing light armor or wielding a shield (but not a Tower Shield) without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, like any other arcane spellcaster, a Red Mage wearing medium or heavy armor incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component (most do). A multiclass Red Mage still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.

Red Magic
A Red Mage casts both arcane spells and divine spells, drawn from the Wizard's and Cleric's spell lists respectively. Red Mages know all spells on the appropriate spell lists, but prepare their spells in the same way that a Wizard does. She has a separate set of spell slots to prepare spells of 1st level and higher, but does not need to prepare her cantrips and orisons. She casts 0-level spells spontaneously. The first set of spell slots in each column are her arcane spell slots per day; the second set of spell slots in each column are her divine spell slots per day.

In order to cast an arcane spell, a Red Mage must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 + spell level. A Red Mage may be entitled to extra arcane spell slots per day if she has a high Intelligence score.

In order to cast a divine spell, a Red Mage must have a Wisdom score of at least 10 + spell level. A Red Mage may be entitled to extra divine spell slots per day if she has a high Wisdom score.

The saving throw DC of any spell cast by a Red Mage, whether it's arcane or divine, is 10 + spell level + Charisma modifier.

A Red Mage may spontaneously convert prepared arcane spells into any arcane spell of the same level from the Warmage's spell list (see Miniature's Handbook, pg 16), and she may spontaneously convert prepared divine spells into any divine spell of the same level from the Healer's spell list (see Miniature's Handbook, pg 11).

Panache (Ex): A Red Mage may substitute her Charisma modifier for her Strength or Dexterity modifier when making an attack roll with a simple weapon, a longsword, a rapier, a sap, a shortsword, a shortbow, or a whip; or an attack roll with a weapon-like spell or effect.

Healer's Mercy (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a Red Mage adds her Wisdom modifier to her AC as long as she wears light armor or no armor and to the amount of hit points cured by any divine spell she casts that cures hit point damage.

Warmage's Edge (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a Red Mage adds her Intelligence modifier to weapon damage rolls as long as she attacks with a simple weapon, a longsword, a rapier, a sap, a shortsword, a shortbow, or a whip; and also to the damage dealt by any arcane spell she casts that deals hit point damage

Spell Power (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a Red Mage adds the listed bonus to her spell penetration checks and to the save DCs of spells she casts. This ability has no effect on cantrips or orisons you cast.

Bonus Feats
At 6th level and every four levels thereafter, a Red Mage gains a bonus feat which may be any feat chosen from the Fighter's list of bonus feats, any metamagic feat, or any item creation feat.

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Red Mage Feats

Improved Mercy
Prerequisites: Wis 15, Healer's Mercy, Able to cast 2nd level Divine spells
Benefit: When you cast a divine spell that cures hit point damage you cure an additional number of hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier × the spell's level.
Normal: Healer's Mercy adds your Wisdom modifier to the amount of hit points cured when you cast a divine spell that cures hit points.

Improved Edge
Prerequisites: Int 15, Warmage's Edge, Able to cast 2nd level Arcane spells
Benefit: When you cast an arcane spell that deals hit point damage you deal extra hit point damage equal to your Intelligence modifier × the spell's level.
Normal: Warmage's Edge adds your Intelligence modifier to the hit point damage dealt by arcane spells you cast.

Vermilion Spell Power
Prerequisites: Int 15, Wis 15, Heighten Spell, Red Magic, Spell Power +1, Able to cast 2nd level Arcane spells, able to cast 2nd level Divine spells
Benefit: For the purposes of determining the level of Warmage and/or Healer spells you are able to spontaneously convert prepared spells into, add your Spell Power bonus to the effective spell level of your prepared Wizard and Cleric spells.
Special: You cannot use this feat to spontaneously convert a prepared spell into a Warmage or Healer spell of a spell level that is greater than twice the spell level of the prepared spell. As such you cannot use it to spontaneously convert cantrips or orisons at all, and the maximum spell level by spell slot is as follows: 1st -> 2nd, 2nd -> 4th, 3rd -> 6th, 4th -> 8th, and 5th -> 9th.

Sudden Metamagic
Prerequisites: Any metamagic feat
Benefit: Once per day for each [Metamagic] feat you have you may apply that feat's effect to a spell you cast without increasing the spell's level or the level of the spell slot, and without needing to prepare it ahead of time. You can still use your [Metamagic] feats normally.
Special: You may only use this feat if the level of the spell slot that would normally be expended to cast the spell is less than or equal to ½ your caster level +1.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each time you take it beyond the first you may use the feat's benefit an additional time per day for each [Metamagic] feat you have.

Excellent class design! I can really feel the Red Mage flavour from Final Fantasy games in this class. It has tons of options, and good ways to justify its MAD-ness. You've also designed feats to help out the class in its core objectives, much likes class feats from 4e (one thing I've always liked about the edition is the inclusion of useful class feats). The spellcasting is good without feeling oppressive, and I notice you've lowered the level requirement for access to spellcasting compared to the Duskblade without raising the power level too much since you basically require a high Int or Wis score to cast those higher lvl spells when you obtain them.

I'll jot down a few additional notes about the class:

• You've listed the Red Mage's ability to cast spells in light armor under Weapons and Armor Proficiencies, limiting it to Red Mage spell slots only. I sort of understand the intent, but why not just give him Armored mage (light) from PHB II's Duskblade, especially since this class seems to have taken some inspiration from there. You also forgot to allow the class to cast spells while wearing light shields, even though it has proficiency with shields.
• In Red Magic, make sure to specify that you can convert a prepared spell slot into a spell of the same level from the appropriate spell list, since later you reference this in a feat.
• Speaking of which, Vermilion Spell Power is currently ambiguously worded. I thought at first that you can bypass the limit and prepare spells of higher than 5th level, but I see now that it is not your intent to do so, but to allow the converting of lower lvl prepared spells into higher lvl spontaneous spells, such as a prepared Magic Missile into a spontaneous Fireball. Is this the intent, or did I get it wrong? Also, will this allow you to convert cantrips/orisons into higher lvl spells?
• Red Mages are proficient with the Sap, but neither Panache nor Warmage's Edge reference it in their description. Mind you no one uses a Sap, but for completeness' sake I think you should still put it in there.
• Sudden Metamagic is weird in that you can only apply its effect once to each [Metamagic] feat you have, which means you have to keep track of several different on/off switches, one for every [Metamagic] feat your character possesses. This is clunky and annoying to keep track of. Also, for a feat with Metamagic in its name to not be a [Metamagic] feat seems unintuitive. I'd suggest streamlining this by making it a [Metamagic] feat and changing the benefit to:
  Once per day for each [Metamagic] feat you have you may apply any metamagic effect you know to a spell you cast without increasing the level of the spell or specially preparing it ahead of time. You can still use your [Metamagic] feats normally.
  (You can keep the Special line as well, simply add a flat number of times you can apply [Metamagic] feats without preparing them or raising the lvl, e.g. 3 additional times every time you take this feat)
• Combat Casting seems like a given for this kind of class, so I dunno about giving up a Bonus Feat at that level for this silly feat. Maybe give the class another Bonus Feat at lvl 2? I hate 3.5's stingy feat system, so more bonus feats are always welcome!
• Spell Power is incredibly strong. I love it since the class tends to be a bit MAD, and needs all the help it can get to shore up its weaknesses.

That's all I can think of for now. Again, great job on designing this class, I feel that it captures the flavour and playstyle of the FF Red Mage spectacularly, and I really wish I have a campaign to play it in.

EDIT: Having the class prepare spells from BOTH the Wizard and Cleric spell list can bog down game time a LOT, since the number of spells available is mind-boggling. Maybe you should think up a few archetypical spell combinations and put them in some nice packages for the newbie Red Mage to use as a recommendation when first starting out. There is a lot to this class, and those inexperienced with it will definitely be overwhelmed, so a little bit of help from its creator is always appreciated. Peace!

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Originally Posted by Pramxnim

Excellent class design! I can really feel the Red Mage flavour from Final Fantasy games in this class. It has tons of options, and good ways to justify its MAD-ness. You've also designed feats to help out the class in its core objectives, much likes class feats from 4e (one thing I've always liked about the edition is the inclusion of useful class feats). The spellcasting is good without feeling oppressive, and I notice you've lowered the level requirement for access to spellcasting compared to the Duskblade without raising the power level too much since you basically require a high Int or Wis score to cast those higher lvl spells when you obtain them.

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This is quite a thorough review, so thank you very much. I'll respond to your points one at a time as much as I can.

I actually didn't intend for it, but it's a very 4e-style class now that you bring that up. It's primary ability score is Charisma and it uses both Intelligence and Wisdom as secondary ability scores. In 3.5 it can squeak by with good scores in all three, especially since I gave it class features to pad out the need for Dexterity or Strength.

The spell progression isn't based on the Duskblade, however, but on the Adept. It gets spells at the exact rate that an Adept does (albeit with quite a few more slots). It's funny to me to notice that an Adept gets its spells faster than a Duskblade.

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You've listed the Red Mage's ability to cast spells in light armor under Weapons and Armor Proficiencies, limiting it to Red Mage spell slots only. I sort of understand the intent, but why not just give him Armored mage (light) from PHB II's Duskblade, especially since this class seems to have taken some inspiration from there. You also forgot to allow the class to cast spells while wearing light shields, even though it has proficiency with shields.

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I copy-pasted the Bard's proficiencies since they should have been perfect for the Red Mage, and yet, Bards are proficient with shields and cannot cast while using them. Pretty dumb. I didn't go with the Duskblade's Armored Mage feature, because a) I don't like it, b) it would make my table look less pretty, and c) Bard already set the precedent of putting this in the proficiencies.

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In Red Magic, make sure to specify that you can convert a prepared spell slot into a spell of the same level from the appropriate spell list, since later you reference this in a feat.

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Done. Also made the cantrips/orisons cast spontaneously.

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Speaking of which, Vermilion Spell Power is currently ambiguously worded. I thought at first that you can bypass the limit and prepare spells of higher than 5th level, but I see now that it is not your intent to do so, but to allow the converting of lower lvl prepared spells into higher lvl spontaneous spells, such as a prepared Magic Missile into a spontaneous Fireball. Is this the intent, or did I get it wrong? Also, will this allow you to convert cantrips/orisons into higher lvl spells?

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I don't see what's ambiguous about it, or how you could think it's effect allowed you to prepare higher level spells, so maybe if you could point to what exactly about the wording confused you I can fix it. The feat is supposed to allow you spontaneously convert your prepared Wizard/Cleric spells into higher level Warmage/Healer spells, yes.

With the changes made to Red Mage, Spell Power, and an addendum to the feat, abuse has been curbed and cantrips/orisons can never be used to cast higher level spells.

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Red Mages are proficient with the Sap, but neither Panache nor Warmage's Edge reference it in their description. Mind you no one uses a Sap, but for completeness' sake I think you should still put it in there.

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Fixed.

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Once per day for each [Metamagic] feat you have you may apply any metamagic effect you know to a spell you cast without increasing the level of the spell or specially preparing it ahead of time. You can still use your [Metamagic] feats normally.

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This was actually my first thought for the feat, but I don't like the idea of taking this + Quicken Spell at 1st level and getting to fire off two free Quickened spells per day. The more metamagic you take after that the more free Quickens you get (or free Split Rays or other nastiness).

I'm still not fully sold on my version of Sudden Metamagic, but at least it keeps abuses to a minimum.

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Combat Casting seems like a given for this kind of class, so I dunno about giving up a Bonus Feat at that level for this silly feat. Maybe give the class another Bonus Feat at lvl 2? I hate 3.5's stingy feat system, so more bonus feats are always welcome!

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Not a bad call. I may end up changing Combat Casting into a bonus feat and adding a short list of other feats the Red Mage may take with her bonus feats, including, of course, Combat Casting.

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Spell Power is incredibly strong. I love it since the class tends to be a bit MAD, and needs all the help it can get to shore up its weaknesses.

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Yeah, in my opinion it's a completely necessary feature, since her spells are lower level than other casters, and since she is more MAD than other casters, she needs some way to keep up her save DCs.

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EDIT: Having the class prepare spells from BOTH the Wizard and Cleric spell list can bog down game time a LOT, since the number of spells available is mind-boggling. Maybe you should think up a few archetypical spell combinations and put them in some nice packages for the newbie Red Mage to use as a recommendation when first starting out. There is a lot to this class, and those inexperienced with it will definitely be overwhelmed, so a little bit of help from its creator is always appreciated. Peace!

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This is also a good idea, and definitely something I'll think about. The big draw here is that the Red Mage never needs to prepare cure spells, or restorations, or condition removal spells, or blasting spells, so she can use her Wizard/Cleric spells for more esoteric or utilitarian effects, and spontaneously convert them as needed. The one really great combat use for her Wizard/Cleric spell slots is BUFFS which dovetails perfectly with her d8 HD, medium BAB, decent AC, and class features.

Oh I see what you mean about Metamagic abuses with the way I've worded it now. It's still a very strong feature to have, and completely eliminates the need to get any other Sudden X feats (thank god, those are such a pain to look at). The only thing left that could be abusive is Heighten Spell, which combined with this feat gives you a free +4-8 DC to a spell you cast (by boosting its effective level to level 9, and making the DC 19 + Cha mod + other modifiers), but uh, I dunno it doesn't seem that bad. One cool thing with this is with Sudden Metamagic, Heighten Spell and Improved Warmage's Edge or Improved Healer's Mercy, you can once per day add 9xInt to the amount of dmg dealt by an arcane spell or 9xWis to the amount healed by a divine spell. Would this be too strong at lvls 4-6?

My bad on the wording on Vermillion Power. I didn't interpret it as giving you the ability to prepare spells of higher level but somehow I wrote it that way. I meant I didn't know it could convert prepared spells into spontaneous spells of a level higher than 5th, but I you've cleared that up with your update to the feat.

Armored Mage may clutter up your table, but it's prolly the golden standard for light armor spellcasters after the Bard. Heck even Beguiler and Warmage get it. Why not just add the ability to cast with a shield on in the proficiency description?

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Originally Posted by Pramxnim

Oh I see what you mean about Metamagic abuses with the way I've worded it now. It's still a very strong feature to have, and completely eliminates the need to get any other Sudden X feats (thank god, those are such a pain to look at). The only thing left that could be abusive is Heighten Spell, which combined with this feat gives you a free +4-8 DC to a spell you cast (by boosting its effective level to level 9, and making the DC 19 + Cha mod + other modifiers), but uh, I dunno it doesn't seem that bad. One cool thing with this is with Sudden Metamagic, Heighten Spell and Improved Warmage's Edge or Improved Healer's Mercy, you can once per day add 9xInt to the amount of dmg dealt by an arcane spell or 9xWis to the amount healed by a divine spell. Would this be too strong at lvls 4-6?

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Huh. That's not intended, and not very clear either. I'll tweak the Sudden Metamagic feat one more time to make everything explicit. I don't want "free Heighten" to be the purpose of the feat.

EDIT: Hmm... free Persist is probably a bad idea too... I'll have to rethink this feat I think.

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Why not just add the ability to cast with a shield on in the proficiency description?

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I did, no worries.

You see, there is one major problem with this class. You don't get the Red Mate's cool hat! That's really the only reason anyone uses a Red Mage! Red Mages should get some ridiculously overpowered feat that only works if the Red Mate is wearing a cool hat.

No, this class is really awesome. It is also acctually useable as a class, as apossed to all the "omg guize look at mah FF1 class its soooooooooo kewl" classes floating about.

My only complaint is the 3-way MAD on mental stats is pretty harsh. Especially since you still want at least Con as well (so your Fort save isn't trash and so you can survive a hit. Con is a necessary stat for basically everything)

I understand you have them replacing physical attributes for hit/damage/AC, but really I think it'd be better if you dropped one of the three as being necessary. Personally I'd go with Wisdom. Have int affect spells/day for both, and cha for spell DCs for both. Healers Mercy then becomes Charisma for bonus to healing, and int for bonus to AC.

I'd totally use it personally, but i think for fairness's sake, that knowing all wizard and cleric spells gives just a few too many options. Even without ninth level spells, i think you should create a specific spell list. Or choose from some other spell list. I think the Bard's with a few added Wizard and Cleric spells would be a great start. Granted, that would be a lot of work.

Suggestion for Sudden metamagic. As opposed to making it free. Pay for it with a higher spell slot. Or two. Pay for it by sacrificing spells of a higher level, till you hit the level of the spell your effecting with metamagic + 1/2 the extra spell level on the metamagic. So a quickened 2nd level spell would cost a fourth level spell slot. Maybe by doing so, you also retain the lower level spell slot that you would have cast the spell from originally. I'm just throwing it out there.

Can an Epic Red Mage with Vermillion Spellpower trade 5th level spells for 10th level spells (either Epic Spells or metamagic-affected lower level spells)?

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Originally Posted by meemaas

I'd totally use it personally, but i think for fairness's sake, that knowing all wizard and cleric spells gives just a few too many options. Even without ninth level spells, i think you should create a specific spell list. Or choose from some other spell list. I think the Bard's with a few added Wizard and Cleric spells would be a great start. Granted, that would be a lot of work.

Suggestion for Sudden metamagic. As opposed to making it free. Pay for it with a higher spell slot. Or two. Pay for it by sacrificing spells of a higher level, till you hit the level of the spell your effecting with metamagic + 1/2 the extra spell level on the metamagic. So a quickened 2nd level spell would cost a fourth level spell slot. Maybe by doing so, you also retain the lower level spell slot that you would have cast the spell from originally. I'm just throwing it out there.

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This guy knows what he is talking about, someone wanted to play this in a game I'm in and the spell selection is crazy OP and would be a nightmare to keep track of.

I had an alternate solution for Red Magic which I think makes the class much easier to use, more balanced, and more Red Magish.

Just change it to spontaneous casting, sorcerer style, only with cleric spells as an option also. Start with 6 spells known and every level add 2 and change one old one. This puts you with a more flexible than sorcerer list by far. For dualcast flavor mechanic (not a feat), let them cast as a full round action as many spells as they wish, as long as the total spell levels do not exceed their highest spell level.

This is really well done. My only problem with it is how MAD it is, but after thinking about it, that's not even so much a problem for this class. Very all-around utility based, makes a great support casters, who can toss out Orb spells to deadly efficiency when they need to. The limited spell level keeps them from breaking the game, while still remaining a pretty handy class.

Very well done.

They also supercede the bard in practically all ways, but bards are rather poor anyhow. Just be aware if you introduce this it's highly unlikely any player would play a bard again.

I'd like to hear people's problems with the Cleric Wizard list. I mean what problems could arise form it that couldn't arise just as fast from a Wizard? I mean Divine Power and Polymorph is pretty crazy but by then the Wizard is doing much crazier stuff. I think a reasonable nerf to both spell lists is a good decision to make for any campaign, such as a ban on Polymorph or Teleport.

Edit: The only problem might be that its easy as pie to get into Mystic Theurge and have a Wizard with Red Mage back up list. Same goes for things like UM. I mean Red Mage 3 / Wiz 1 / Mystic Theurge 2 / Ultimate Magus 10 is pretty crazy. Just get like Practiced Spellcaster or something on wizard to bring up its caster level.

I really like this class but I wish to know if is both powerful enough and balanced enought for either a D&D and Pathfinder game?

What tier do those here believe this class is in?

I apologize if bumping old threads is frowned upon here, but I've been looking at this class for quite some time, and am thinking of adding it to my game.

One thing that strikes me is just how powerful Healer's Mercy is. Even with a moderate ability of 16 for WIS, and 14 for DEX, if you had a level 4 Red Mage with a chain shirt, heavy shield, and spells Mage Armor and Shield of Faith, you now have a combatant with and AC of 27! (armor +4, shield +2, dex +2, mage armor +4, shield of faith +2, healer's mercy +3)

I think Healer's Mercy was suppose to be given to the Healer to make up for the fact that it is not suppose to fight at all. On a Red Mage, which is likely to enter melee, I think it is extremely powerful. It's one thing to be able to boost AC via two characters helping each other out, but to have a single character able to do this seems uniquely powerful.

What do you think?

Also, in terms of bonus spells, how does this work? If the character has both high INT and high WIS, do they get both one bonus arcane spell and one bonus divine spell? (This means a character with low WIS and high INT would only get the bonus arcane spell and not the bonus divine spell)

I would remove the chance of arcane spell failure for the class when wearing light armor.

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Originally Posted by Scorponok

I apologize if bumping old threads is frowned upon here, but I've been looking at this class for quite some time, and am thinking of adding it to my game.

One thing that strikes me is just how powerful Healer's Mercy is. Even with a moderate ability of 16 for WIS, and 14 for DEX, if you had a level 4 Red Mage with a chain shirt, heavy shield, and spells Mage Armor and Shield of Faith, you now have a combatant with and AC of 27! (armor +4, shield +2, dex +2, mage armor +4, shield of faith +2, healer's mercy +3)

I think Healer's Mercy was suppose to be given to the Healer to make up for the fact that it is not suppose to fight at all. On a Red Mage, which is likely to enter melee, I think it is extremely powerful. It's one thing to be able to boost AC via two characters helping each other out, but to have a single character able to do this seems uniquely powerful.

What do you think?

Also, in terms of bonus spells, how does this work? If the character has both high INT and high WIS, do they get both one bonus arcane spell and one bonus divine spell? (This means a character with low WIS and high INT would only get the bonus arcane spell and not the bonus divine spell)

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Minor nitpick - Mage Armor and a chain shirt both provide an armour bonus, they don't stack, The AC would be 23 :)

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Originally Posted by HearTheRequiem

Minor nitpick - Mage Armor and a chain shirt both provide an armour bonus, they don't stack, The AC would be 23 :)

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I....DID NOT KNOW THAT!! :)

They could, then, use the spell Shield, which gives them a +4 shield bonus to AC. So our Red Mage is up to 25 AC.