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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
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Originally Posted by
Durkoala
I know it's not what's annoying you, Zodi, but it's also perfectly possible to like a character who would be a bad person in real life too. Or even one who's a bad person to the world of fiction they come from. Some of those people really need to chill out.
CoughDiocough.
But yeah I get what you mean.
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
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Originally Posted by
Peelee
I've never heard anyone say that about Tony Stark. Then again, I don't tend to get into conversations about the MCU terribly often, so there's that.
I only half-watched Black Panther, but I remember thinking the villain kinda made some good points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
Killmonger was right it was his methods that were wrong
The guy who goes "Europeans robbing my people of their cultural heritage is wrong" and then stealing a mask he clearly stated did not belong to his culture because it looks cool in the same minute as his ntroduction scene? The guys who burns his own people sacred artifacts and compares his own rule to that of the British Empire?
No, I think the movie was always clear that he was always just an hypocrite with a want for revenge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
I see too much of it but I'm extremely online at all times so that's probably why. But before that, Black Panther is responsible for most of the same sins Tony is responsible for. I don't really get why people consider it different.
It might have to do with the fact that every main Iron Man and Spider-Man MCU vilain has been a former Stark employee with a grudge against him. And that's not counting Ultron. I mean Killmonger was pissed at T'challa's father, not him personally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
enderlord99
My opinion on Tony Stark is "He's just the comic-book version of Alfred Nobel, plus robot armor."
Although... that hardly counts as an opinion in the first place.
Alfred Nobel had a drinking problem?
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fyraltari
The guy who goes "Europeans robbing my people of their cultural heritage is wrong" and then stealing a mask he clearly stated did not belong to his culture because it looks cool in the same minute as his ntroduction scene? The guys who burns his own people sacred artifacts and compares his own rule to that of the British Empire?
No, I think the movie was always clear that he was always just an hypocrite with a want for revenge.
Hypocrites can still make some good points, even if they don't act on them. Plus, I only half-paid attention to the movie. I don't even remember that scene.
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fyraltari
The guy who goes "Europeans robbing my people of their cultural heritage is wrong" and then stealing a mask he clearly stated did not belong to his culture because it looks cool in the same minute as his ntroduction scene? The guys who burns his own people sacred artifacts and compares his own rule to that of the British Empire?
No, I think the movie was always clear that he was always just an hypocrite with a want for revenge.
It might have to do with the fact that every main Iron Man and Spider-Man MCU vilain has been a former Stark employee with a grudge against him. And that's not counting Ultron. I mean Killmonger was pissed at T'challa's father, not him personally.
Everything past the "Europeans robbed my people of their cultural heritage is wrong" point is under the "his methods are bad but he's right you know". It's a classic example of "Terrible news; the worst person you know made a good point" scenario.
Also pointedly, because of his distancing from Wakanda, while the mask is not literally his culture, it is from the culture of those he grew up and associated with. For all intents and purposes it is his, and any sort of posturing as "naw it just looks cool" is either him lying to himself to fit in to the society he sees himself as, or an example of something I basically can't talk about in a thread because Black Panther's entire thematic thrust is banned from talk on the forum so shrug.
I don't see why that is bad. Everyone is like "Stark gets no consequences" and literally everyone he fought was caused by him or his father being ****ty bad people. He constantly had to fight against his own past errors and he literally died for it.
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
I am annoyingly smug about not keeping up with the MCU (like, I'll still see the films, but literally only if I'm interested, I don't want to have to keep up). Who's Killmonger? Is he like the assassin version of a fishmonger?
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
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Originally Posted by
Peelee
Hypocrites can still make some good points, even if they don't act on them. Plus, I only half-paid attention to the movie. I don't even remember that scene.
I mean his only good points are "slavery happened and racism exist" which, yeah, and "Your father was a grad-A *******". Beyond that he seems to believe that Wakanda had a duty to stop the colonization of Africa which doesn't really makes sense as, and one of Wakandan council members points that out, the slaves were simply not Wakandan.
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Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
Everything past the "Europeans robbed my people of their cultural heritage is wrong" point is under the "his methods are bad but he's right you know".
You can't just decide what is a method and what isn't, doing the exact same thing he blames other for is not a method.
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Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
It's a classic example of "Terrible news; the worst person you know made a good point" scenario.
When the point consists mostly of blaming the people for the actions of other persons I have a hard time calling them good more like "truth-adjacent".
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Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
Also pointedly, because of his distancing from Wakanda, while the mask is not literally his culture, it is from the culture of those he grew up and associated with. For all intents and purposes it is his
Hmm, I had not considered that.
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Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
and any sort of posturing as "naw it just looks cool" is either him lying to himself to fit in to the society he sees himself as
Wouldn't that mean rejecting that other culture, then? Which would round back to his theft being hypocritical in nature?
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Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
or an example of something I basically can't talk about in a thread because Black Panther's entire thematic thrust is banned from talk on the forum so shrug.
I don't think we've gotten political yet, but you are right, we should drop this subject.
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Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
I don't see why that is bad. Everyone is like "Stark gets no consequences" and literally everyone he fought was caused by him or his father being ****ty bad people. He constantly had to fight against his own past errors and he literally died for it.
I'm not saying it is bad story-telling, but when several characters complain and have a grudge against one guy, it is bound to colour the audience's perception of that guy.
EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anonymouswizard
I am annoyingly smug about not keeping up with the MCU (like, I'll still see the films, but literally only if I'm interested, I don't want to have to keep up). Who's Killmonger? Is he like the assassin version of a fishmonger?
Basically Wakanda is an african kingdom with future tech that hid itself from the rest of the world for no reason for centuries. And then the king's brother goes to america and has a son. And then the king kills him and abandons the child because he's a terrible brother and uncle. The kid becomes like a black-ops navy seal mercenary or something and goes to Wakanda to challenge his cousin the new king to a duel to the death for the crown because the Wakandan system of government is dumb like that. So the kid become king and the new Black Panther and decides to destroy all the Black Panther juice making flowers and take over the world for revenge but his cousin who wasn't really dead comes back, leads a little civil war and kills him. And then he decides to drop the whole "we're hiding from the world thing" because he realized his father was an ass and called him out in the afterlife. but they're still hiding in the next movie we see them in for some reason.
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anonymouswizard
I am annoyingly smug about not keeping up with the MCU (like, I'll still see the films, but literally only if I'm interested, I don't want to have to keep up). Who's Killmonger? Is he like the assassin version of a fishmonger?
Killmonger is a nickname that Eric something or other (forget his last name) gained while working as an operative in the military, named such due to his training to infiltrate societies and kill them from the inside, and his getting a form of African tribal marking to mark each kill he's personally gotten.
In the comics his last name is just literally Killmonger.
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Originally Posted by
Fyraltari
I don't think we've gotten political yet, but you are right, we should drop this subject.
I'm not saying it is bad story-telling, but when several characters complain and have a grudge against one guy, it is bound to colour the audience's perception of that guy.
Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss this in private I think we can legitimately have a good discussion about it and none of my friends have seen Black Panther so I'm antsy to talk about it still, especially with regards to my own confusion as to why people hate Stark but not T'Challa. I'll likely attend to it when off work.
Yeah I can definitely get that, at least.
Regarding the plot details of Black Panther: It's a looot more nuanced than Fyraltari is making it appear. It's not for dumb reasons, for one. I'll elaborate at a later time.
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
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Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss this in private I think we can legitimately have a good discussion about it and none of my friends have seen Black Panther so I'm antsy to talk about it still, especially with regards to my own confusion as to why people hate Stark but not T'Challa. I'll likely attend to it when off work.
The political ban also applies to PMs I'm afraid.
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Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
Yeah I can definitely get that, at least.
Is there a missing quotes above that or am I missing something?
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Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
Regarding the plot details of Black Panther: It's a looot more nuanced than Fyraltari is making it appear. It's not for dumb reasons, for one. I'll elaborate at a later time.
I'm mostly* being facetious, Black Panther is a really good movie with a solid plot and an interesting vilain. He's just not "right".
*You can say whatever you want, supreme executive power being won in duels is a terrible way to organize your successions.
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fyraltari
The political ban also applies to PMs I'm afraid.
Is there a missing quotes above that or am I missing something?
I'm mostly* being facetious, Black Panther is a really good movie with a solid plot and an interesting vilain. He's just not "right".
*You can say whatever you want, supreme executive power being won in duels is a terrible way to organize your successions.
I don't... think that's true? If PMs are being monitered for content then I expect to be killed in multiple ways by now.
It was in relation to "so many STark based villains colour people's perceptions of him".
Whether Killmonger's right or not aside, it's a lot more reasonably put together than you presented it. No shade on that, being comedic is fun.
You're not wrong but keeping that bit of tribalism was fascinating. Still a better form of government than women in lakes handing out swords :smallwink:
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
Anyone ever go to eat something while reading, and then realize they devoured the food instantly? I unpeelee a banana just a moment ago, got a text and somehow swallowed the entire banana by the time I unlocked my phone. I'm in public and hoping no one saw.
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fyraltari
I mean his only good points are "slavery happened and racism exist" which, yeah, and "Your father was a grad-A *******". Beyond that he seems to believe that Wakanda had a duty to stop the colonization of Africa which doesn't really makes sense as, and one of Wakandan council members points that out, the slaves were simply not Wakandan.
I think "what the hell you guys have a utopian society and won't share literally anything with anyone else, despite being militarily greater than the rest of the known world for millennia, and instead just became isolationist hermits blind to the suffering of the entire rest of the world" is a pretty good argument, myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tvtyrant
I unpeelee a banana just a moment ago
I find your Peelee/Jasdoif fanfic strange, yet interesting.
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
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Originally Posted by
Peelee
I find your Peelee/Jasdoif fanfic strange, yet interesting.
Warning: It is an antebellum slash-fic. It takes place on a plaintaintion.
Edit: The ending needs rewriting too. It is currently bananas.
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
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Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
I don't... think that's true? If PMs are being monitered for content then I expect to be killed in multiple ways by now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Rulez
These Rules apply everywhere on this Forum, including every subforum, spoiler box, signature, avatar, and Private Message.
I'd be surprised if the mods did monitor the PMs but the rules exist for a reason and I am known to have a little bit of a temper when it comes to politics. I guess we could try though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
It was in relation to "so many STark based villains colour people's perceptions of him".
Ah okay. I, myself, am mostly indifferent toward Tony Stark (I haven't seen most of his movies).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
Whether Killmonger's right or not aside, it's a lot more reasonably put together than you presented it. No shade on that, being comedic is fun.
Yeah, the guy is surprisingly complex for a dude who calls himself "Killmonger".
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Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
You're not wrong but keeping that bit of tribalism was fascinating. Still a better form of government than women in lakes handing out swords :smallwink:
Well, if the woman organizes a vote before-hand.
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Originally Posted by
Peelee
I think "what the hell you guys have a utopian society and won't share literally anything with anyone else, despite being militarily greater than the rest of the known world for millennia, and instead just became isolationist hermits blind to the suffering of the entire rest of the world" is a pretty good argument, myself.
How utopian is Wakanda really? Besides the autocratical form of government that, and this is worth repeating, can be legally overthrown by killing the previous dude (on the condition you belong to the right family which I don't even know if that makes it better or worse, but I'm leaning toward worse), one tribe is ostracized from te others so there are certainly cracks showing in the present. Therefore I highly doubt that 19th century Wakanda was all rainbows and sunshine.
Also what exactly could they have done? Wage war on the whole of Europe by their lonesome on behalf of foreigners? Without going into a "just war" debate that would have been a severe strain on Wakanda even with superior technology as many examples of asymettrical warfare show especially since it is a small country* that apprently didn't get the memo that firearms make spears obsolete. Give weapons and technology to the neighbouring kingdoms and pray their ineplicably egyptian goddes these kingdoms don't decide to conquer them too after the Europeans are dealt with?
Ain't Realpolitik fun?
*They muster how many combatants for their civil war? a couple thousand?
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fyraltari
Also what exactly could they have done?
Share medicine and technology? Be the Jonas Salks of Marvel Earth on a much grander scale?
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peelee
Share medicine and technology? Be the Jonas Salks of Marvel Earth on a much grander scale?
That's really not what Killmonger was talking about though. He was very much focused on the whole colonialism thing.
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
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Originally Posted by
Peelee
Share medicine and technology? Be the Jonas Salks of Marvel Earth on a much grander scale?
I think one of the key movie arguments is that Killmonger is just going to do exactly the same thing he hates (engaging in imperialism.) Distributing tech can be incredibly disruptive and even dangerous to local cultures, it has to be done very carefully to keep from wrecking the societies it is supposed to help.
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fyraltari
That's really not what Killmonger was talking about though. He was very much focused on the whole colonialism thing.
Things like this happen when I don't really pay attention to the movie.:smallredface:
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peelee
Things like this happen when I don't really pay attention to the movie.:smallredface:
Killmonger felt they should have assisted the world in more ways than just stopping colonialism, it's just that that one in particular is kind of a Big Deal. Killmonger using the tools of the oppressors against them is pointed out in the literal text of the film as being His Big Flaw, because he's so consumed with hate that's the only answer he has. T'Challa does what that Sparks person you mentioned would do, in modern age, after revealing Wakanda is a thing that exists. And then literally two days later Infinity War happens.
Anyway, Fyr, you realize Egypt is IN Africa, right? Wakanda is multi-cultural and made up of people from all around Africa, united after T'Challa's ancestor won out over the other nearby tribes. It's why we get the Hanuman worshipping people alongside T'Challa's people and Bast. It's actually cool and realistic to how Africa is as a nation.
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
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Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
Anyway, Fyr, you realize Egypt is IN Africa, right? Wakanda is multi-cultural and made up of people from all around Africa, united after T'Challa's ancestor won out over the other nearby tribes. It's why we get the Hanuman worshipping people alongside T'Challa's people and Bast.
Yeah, and that makes no sense. T'Challa's ancestors united five tribes that formed Wakanda, they didn't conquer Africa. Wakanda should have its own completely separate culture from all other African cultures. A good example is how T'Challa's honor guard (I can't remeber their name) use iklwa spears who wear invented by Shaka Zulu in the 19th century at a time where Wakanda wasn't supposed to have any contact with the exterior. (and no need to adopt a new pole weapon). I get the doylist reasons behind those choices but the watsonian ones are non-existant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
It's actually cool and realistic to how Africa is as a nation.
Zod, you realize Africa is not a nation, right? Not any more than Asia, Europe, or America*.
*The continent not the United States.
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
All board rules apply to PMs as well. Mods will not go into your PM box without reason, but they will if given reason to.
This is usually because somebody in the conversation forwarded a mod a PM that broke the rules.
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fyraltari
Yeah, and that makes no sense. T'Challa's ancestors united five tribes that formed Wakanda, they didn't conquer Africa. Wakanda should have its own completely separate culture from all other African cultures. A good example is how T'Challa's honor guard (I can't remeber their name) use iklwa spears who wear invented by Shaka Zulu in the 19th century at a time where Wakanda wasn't supposed to have any contact with the exterior. (and no need to adopt a new pole weapon). I get the doylist reasons behind those choices but the watsonian ones are non-existant.
Zod, you realize Africa is not a nation, right? Not any more than Asia, Europe, or America*.
*The continent not the United States.
To be fair they're not completely isolated – they hide their tech, but they had a seat in the UN. They were just generally known to be a basically-insignificant small mostly-agricultural nation, generally isolationist.
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
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Originally Posted by
Mystic Muse
All board rules apply to PMs as well. Mods will not go into your PM box without reason, but they will if given reason to.
This is usually because somebody in the conversation forwarded a mod a PM that broke the rules.
What happened? :eek:
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
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Originally Posted by
Bartmanhomer
What happened? :eek:
Both the breaking of rules, and mod actions in response are inappropriate topics of discussion, particularly for a thread where a forum administrator is a recurring member.
On a much more board appropriate topic, I miss Technocrat.
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
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Originally Posted by
Fyraltari
The political ban also applies to PMs I'm afraid.
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Originally Posted by
LaZodiac
I don't... think that's true?
Whoops! Missed this earlier. Yes, all the rules apply to PMs as well. In fact...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forum Rules
These Rules apply everywhere on this Forum, including every subforum, spoiler box, signature, avatar, and Private Message.
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mystic Muse
Both the breaking of rules and mod actions in response are inappropriate topics of discussion, particularly for a thread where a forum administrator is a recurring member.
On a much more board appropriate topic, I miss Technocrat.
Wow. I mean just wow. That's a major scandal in this forum. :eek:
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anonymouswizard
Who's Killmonger? Is he like the assassin version of a fishmonger?
Now I really want to make a market trader hitman NPC next time my players visit a wretched hive. Muuuuuuurdeeeers. Come git ya muuuuuuuurdeeeeers. Two bob a stabbing, three bob a garotte! You there, sir, you look like you could use some murders. Buy three shootings and I'll throw in an electrocution. Whaddaya say? Best killing this side of Putney.
Anyway, regards Black Panther, it's always amused me that he and Dr Doom have very similar setups (autocratic ruler of a technological paradise (Wakanda/Latveria) in an otherwise impoverished part of the world (Africa/Balkans) who never does anything with his vast resources to aid his neighbours, instead building a supersuit and occasionally helping save the world), but one is a superhero and the other is a supervillain.
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fyraltari
*You can say whatever you want, supreme executive power being won in duels is a terrible way to organize your successions.
Yeah, everyone knows supreme power comes from watery tarts throwing swords at people. :smallbiggrin:
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mystic Muse
All board rules apply to PMs as well. Mods will not go into your PM box without reason, but they will if given reason to.
This is usually because somebody in the conversation forwarded a mod a PM that broke the rules.
There's a "Report PM" button just like there's a "Report Post" button. This will send a copy of the PM, exactly as you received it, to the mods for review. As noted by others, all forum rules apply in PMs as well.
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
Well I just discovered the Zelda Oracle games are on the Nintendo eShop, I've picked up Ages and will get Seasons for a linked game when I've finished because I remember I got the orange one as a kid thinking it was like Pokémon for some reason, because hey it was my first exposure to the series (I was pretty much the only Zelda fan around when growing up, first playing Seasons and then the original and LttP when they came out on GBA, and Twilight Princess on the Wii before I lost access to all Nintendo consoles until a few years ago).
This makes me incredibly happy, I loved OoS back in the day and didn't think to check because I remember the games not being that well recieved when I looked them up online. So while they aren't as good as LttP (or ALBW, which I'd adore if it wasn't for the 'renting items' mechanic) it's going to be nice going back to something I have incredibly fond memories of.
In other news, it's going to take about six months before my hair's at a decent length, anybody got tips to making it look good in the in-between period?
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Re: SZbNAhL's Similarly Sibilant (if unpronouncable) Random Banter #223
I don't know if I mentioned it here, but my grandfather died a few weeks ago. We weren't particularly close, but...
F