[3.5/PEACH]Reforged Savant [Reforged Mastermaker + Warlock hybrid base class](WIP)

Reforged Savanthttp://wizards.com/dnd/images/excerpts_epg_0525.jpg

While all artificers have considerable knowledge and skill with manipulating the energies that power the warforged, some few take their specialty and devote their lives to harnessing it. Driven by a mad need for arcane power, they craft warforged components on their own and implant them in their own bodies, forcing the components to bond with them by channeling magical energies. These individuals have become known as reforged savants, blending warforged technology with their own arcane powers.

[Design Note]The class is intended to be a reflavored Warlock. Instead of drawing it's powers from infernal/diabolical magic sources, the reforged savant builds his own custom warforged components. The class does not create magic items like an artificer.

Game Rule Information
Reforged Savant's have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Intelligence is the most important ability for an reforged savant because it determines the save DC for his artifice arcana. Dexterity is important for helping the reforged savant hit with his energy guantlet and a good Constitution score helps offset the class's low hit die.
Alignment: Any
HD: d6

Class Skills
The reforged savant's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (all knowledge skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Starting Gold: As Wizard.

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort|Reflex|Will|Special Ability|Artifice Arcana Known
1|+0|+2|+0|+2|Least Artifice Arcanca, Artifice Knowledge, Energy Gauntlet +1d6|1
2|+1|+3|+0|+3|Self-Repair|2
3|+2|+3|+1|+3|Armored Plating, Energy Gauntlet +2d6|2
4|+3|+4|+1|+4|Essence of the Construct I, Percussive Maintenance|3
5|+3|+4|+1|+4|Energy Gauntlet +3d6|3
6|+4|+5|+2|+5|Lesser Artifice Arcana|4
7|+5|+5|+2|+5|Disk of Energy Resistance I, Energy Gauntlet +4d6|4
8|+6/+1|+6|+2|+6|Essence of the Construct II|5
9|+6/+1|+6|+3|+6|Energy Gauntlet +5d6|5
10|+7/+2|+7|+3|+7|Second Blast|6
11|+8/+3|+7|+3|+7|Greater Artifice Arcana, Disk of Energy Resistance II, Energy Gauntlet +6d6|7
12|+9/+4|+8|+4|+8|Essence of the Construct III, Construct Item|7
13|+9/+4|+8|+4|+8|Energy Gauntlet +7d6|8
14|+10/+5|+9|+4|+9|Bonus Warforged Feat|9
15|+11/+6/+1|+9|+5|+9|Disk of Energy Resistance III, Energy Guantlet +8d6|9
16|+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10|Dark Artifice Arcana, Essence of the Construct IV|10
17|+12/+7/+2|+10|+5|+10|Energy Gauntlet +9d6|10
18|+13/+8/+3|+11|+6|+11|Third Blast|11
19|+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|+11|Disk of Energy Resistance IV, Energy Gauntlet +10d6|11
20|+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|+12|Essence of the Construct V|12
[/table]

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the reforged savant.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Reforged savants are proficient with all simples weapons. They are proficient with light armor but not shields.

Though activating all artifice arcanas require a somatic component, the nature of the bond between the reforged savant and his components is such that he may wear light armor and use any artifice arcana without suffering the risk of arcane spell failure.

Artifice Arcana (Sp): The reforged savant powers his creations by channeling magical energies into them. His special warforged crafted components are called artifice arcana and they function as invocations. A reforged savant does not learn his artifice arcana like a warlock learns his invocations; rather he builds them to serve as an arcane focus. Each artifice arcana must be crafted by the reforged savant himself and are built specifically for his body; any artifice arcana that becomes separated from the reforged savant does not function for any other creature. A reforged savant can use any artifice arcana he knows at will. The reforged savants caster level with his artifice arcanas is equal to his class level.

If an artifice aracana allows a saving throw, its DC is 10 + the equivalent spell level + the reforged savants Intelligence modifier. A 1st level reforged savant begins with having crafted one least artifice aracana in addition to his energy gauntlet. At any level when a reforged savant crafts a new artifice aracana, he may discard an old artifice arcana and replace it with another of the same grade or lower.

Though activating all artifice arcana's require a somatic component, the nature of the bond between the reforged savant and his components is such that he may wear light armor and use any artifice arcana without suffering the risk of arcane spell failure.

Artifice arcana do not occupy a body slot in regards to magic items, nor does an artifice arcana implanted in a specific place on the body prevent the addition of another artifice arcana on the same place.

The first artifice arcana that all reforged savants build is the energy gauntlet. This gauntlet is crafted from specially treated metal and crystals, allowing it focus the reforged savant's magic into the form of an energy blast. This blast is identical in most ways to a warlock's eldritch blast. It is a ranged touch attack that is subject to spell resistance and deals 1d6 damage at 1st level. The damage of the reforged savant's energy gauntlet increases by +1d6 every other reforged savant level. The energy blast deals full damage to objects.

The energy gauntlet may also be used to make melee bludgeoning attacks and the reforged savant is always considered to be armed. For weapon purposes it counts as a simple weapon gauntlet and does an amount of damage as appropriate for the size of the reforged savant. A medium sized reforged savants energy gauntlet deals 1d3 bludgenoing damage while small sized reforged savants energy gauntlet deals 1d2 bludgenoning damage.

Artifice Knowledge (Sp): A reforged savant can make a special knowledge check with a bonus equal to his reforged savant level + his Int modifier to detect whether a specific item has a magical aura. The reforged savant must hold and examine the object for 1 minute. A successful check against DC 15 determines that the object has magical qualities and the applicable school of magic, but does not reveal the specific powers of the item. A reforged savant cannot take 10 or take 20 on this check. A particular item can only be examined in this fashion one time; if the check fails, the reforged savant can learn no more about that object.

In addition the reforged savant gains a +3 bonus on Craft and Use Magic Device checks.

Self Repair (Su): The reforged savants body begins to change due to the steady influx of warforged components and techonology. At 2nd level and higher a reforged savant has a reserve of healing which he can use to heal a number of hit points of damage equal to his Intelligence modifier times his highest rank in craft. He may only repair himself in this manner, and he can spread this healing out among several uses.

Armored Plating (Ex): At 3rd level the reforged savant has integrated so many warforged components into his body that they act as armor, protecting him against blows. The reforged savant must choose one of the Warforged feats from the list below and he gains it's benefit. Regardless of which type of armor plating the reforged savant chooses, he is still able to use his artifice arcanas without risk of arcane spell failure while gaining the benefits of the armor provided by the feat or when wearing light armor, if he choose Unarmed Body. [Adamantine Body, Ironwood Body, Mithral Body, Unarmored Body]

All of the Armored Plating, with the exception of Unarmoded Body, are legal targets for the Armor Modification and Armor Enhancement artifice arcanas. A reforged savant with Unarmored Body may instead wear regular armor and use those arcanas on the regular armor worn.

In addition the reforged savant may use warforged components as if he were a warforged. He may use both attached and embedded components.

Essence of the Construct (Ex) The addition of the artifice arcana to the reforged savants body strengthens it, granting it some of the resiliences that a true construct has. At 4th level the reforged savant becomes immune to nonlethal damage.

At 8th level the reforged savant gains immunity to ability damage & ability drain.
At 12th level the reforged savant becomes immune to death effects.
At 16th level the reforged savant mind becomes protected, gaining immmunity to mind-affecting effects.
At 20th level the reforged savant gains immunity to critical hits and sneak attacks.

Percussive Maintenance (Ex): At 4th level the reforged savants expertise over constructed devices extends to magical devices. When he makes a Use Magic Device check he can Take 10 even if distracted or threatened.

Disk of Energy Resistance (Sp): At 7th level the reforged savant creates his own disk of energy resistance. This embedded component functions only for the reforged savant, does not occupy a body slot and the resistance it grants increases as the reforged savant gains levels. At 7th level it grants Energy Resistance 10 to a single energy type of either acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic, chosen by the reforged savant. At level 11 the amount of resistance provided increases to 20 and at level 15 it increases again to 30. At level 19 the disk grants immunity to the specified energy type.

The energy type may be temporarily changed through the Energy Modification artifice arcana.

Second Blast (Ex): At 10th level the reforged savant's mastery of his energy guantlet improves. When making a full attack action with his energy gauntlet he may attack twice with the energy guantlet, either at the same target or different targets. The second attack is made with a -5 penalty.

Construct Item (Su): The reforged savant has become so adept at creating his artifice arcanas that now he can use his knowledge to duplicate other magic items as well. At 12th level and higher the reforged savant can make a Use Magic Device check to substitute for a spell when creating a magic item in place of casting the spell himself (DC 20 + spell level).

If he makes the check then he can create the item. If he fails the check then he cannot, though he does not expend any XP or raw material cost. He may try again to create that specific item after he gains a new level.

Warforged Feat (Ex): At 14th level the reforged savant gains a bonus warforged feat. The reforged savant must meet the prerequisites for the feat.

Third Blast (Ex): At 18th level the reforged savant can quickly fire off multiple blasts from his energy guantlet. When making a full attack action with his energy guantlet he may attack three times with the energy gauntlet, either at the same target or different targets. The second attack is made with a -5 penalty and the third attack is made with a -10 penalty.

Alternatively the reforged savant may make two attacks with his energy gauntlet as a standard action. The reforged savant makes two attack rolls, both made with a -7 penalty.

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Artifice Arcana

Least

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Armor Enhancement
Thin bands of silver are woven around a piece of armor, creating an invisible energy field that deflects attacks. The suit of armor gains an Enhancement bonus of +1 per four caster levels, maximum +5 at 16th level. This artifice arcana lasts 24 hours.

Armor Modification, Lesser
This crystal is wrapped in a thin latticework of silver and wired into a piece of armor. When activated the armor gains an armor special ability of your choice equal to either a +1 bonus or up to 5,000gp. The modification lasts for 24 hours.

Deflection Collar
This high backed collar of silver is implanted at the base of your neck. When activated it grants you a Resistance bonus on saving throws of +1 per four caster levels, maxium +5 at 16th level. This artifice arcana lasts 24 hours.

Energy Modification
Tiny crystals implanted at the finger tips of your energy gauntlet allow you to modify the energy type of a magic item to a different energy type, either the type of damage it deals or type of energy it protects against. Activating this artifice arcana requires you to touch the item and the modification lasts for 24 hours.

Enhanced Touch
Tiny crystals imbedded in your hands and feet allow you to grip to surfaces as if under the effect of the spider climb spell, except that your climb speed is 30ft and it lasts for 24 hours.

Enhanced Vision
Silver etchings tattoed around your eyes enhance the clarity of your sight. You gain the benefits of the see invisibilty spell for 24 hours. In addition you can ignore the cover bonus to AC foes receive when attacking foes that have less than total cover. They do not allow you to ignore total cover.

Illuminating Lenses
You insert thin lenses made of special crystal into your eyes. You gain Darkvision out to 60ft and can see normally in magical darkness up to that range. If you already have Darkvision the range of your Darkvision increases by 30ft.

Leg Actuators
You implant a pair metallic hyrdaulic braces on your legs, fueled by your arcane energies. You may add your Intelligence modifier (in addition to either your Strength or Dexterity modifier as appropriate) to Balance, Jump, and Tumble checks for 24 hours. In addition you suffer no armor check penalty from the armor granted by your Armored Plating bonus warforged armor feat and may still use the Tumble skill if you took the Adamantine Body feat.

Probability Distortion
You implant a small, gleaming silver disk at the base of your neck. It generates an invisible energy field that deflects incoming arrows, rays, and other ranged attacks as the spell entropic shield, except that the miss chance is increased to 30% and it lasts 24 hours.

Lesser

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Armor Modification
As Armor Modification, Lesser, except that the armor gains an armor special ability of your choice equal up to a +3 bonus or up to 55,000gp. The modification lasts for 24 hours.

Echo Crystals
You construct a pair of tiny metal spheres that are implanted beneath your ears. The spheres pick up the vibrations from sounds and allows you to visualize what you hear. You gain blindsense out to 30ft for 24 hours.

Energy Dampeners
You insert small, thin, specially treated silver disks under your skin at the chakra points on your body. The disks lower the magical energy that your aritifices and magic items give off. You gain the benefits of the nondetection spell for 24 hours. The dampeners have an additional effect of subtly decreasing the intensity of the sound your body makes. You gain a +5 circumstance bonus on Move Silently checks.

Energy Distortion
This small black wrist strap is interwoven with tracings of silver and cold iron and sewn onto your wrist. When activated the tracings on this artifice glow briefly as they absorb the light around you, making you vanish from sight. You gain the benefit of the inivisibility spell (self only) for 24 hours or until you break invisibility.

Energy Field
You wrap thin cold iron wires around a sliver of a dragonshard and implant it in your chest. When you mentally activate this artifice it draws upon the energy your body naturally creates and projects a transparent energy field around you. This artifice duplicates the effects of the fire shield spell for 24 hours and you may choose either the warm shield or chill shield each time you activate it.

Gift of Tongues
This metal stud has a tiny crystal embedded on each end which you implant by piercing it through your tongue. When you activate the artifice you gain the benefit of the tongues spell for 24 hours. The enhanced linguistic ability grants you a +4 bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, & Intimidate checks. The bonus to Bluff does not apply to Bluffing in combat to create a diversion to hide or feinting in combat.

Piercing Vision
Painful tattoos of cold iron are etched around your eyes, further enhancing your vision. You gain the benefit of the arcane sight spell for 24 hours and it only requires a move action to concentrate on a specific creature.

Repulsor Belt
You implant thin disks of silver around your waist. When fueled by your magicial energies the disks push against the ground, lifting you into the air. You gain a fly speed equal to your land speed with good maneuverability for 24 hours.

Transference Clock
This miniaturized version of the face of a water clock is connected to a silver chain that you surgically attach to your chest. The hands on the clock to not move except when you activate the artifice. By moving the hands to specfic locations (a standard action) you set distance and direction and are instantly teleported to that location, as per the dimension door spell.

Greater

Dark


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Playing a Reforged Savant

Your energy gauntlet serves as the focus for your energy blast, your primary attack. Your invocations are mostly personal and defensive in nature, serving to magically enhance your warforged components and yourself. As such you best fill the role of a ranged striker within the party, relying on your energy gauntlet for blast damage and your artifice aracana for mobility and defense.

You don't know as many varied invocations as a regular Warlock, primarily the invocations that summon creatures or deal damage or effects to multiple creatures at once. Unlike a regular Warlock however you have access to artifice arcana that allow you to change your defenses and resistances on the spot, giving you more flexibility.

Reforged Savants and Prestige Classes
Reforged savants benefit in a specific way from prestige classes that have a level advancement benefit of "+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class" or "+1 level of existing spellcasting class." A reforged savant taking levels in such a prestige class does not gain any other benefits of that level increase, but he does gain an increased caster level when using his artifice aracanas and increased damage with his energy gauntlet. Levels of prestige classes that provide +1 level of spellcasting effectively stack with the reforged savant's level to determing his energy gauntlet damage. He also gains new artifice aracanas at each such prestige class level as though he had risen a level in the reforged savant class.

A reforged savant cannot qualify for prestige classes (or other game options) with spellcasting level requirements, because he never actually learns to cast spells. However, prestige classes with caster level requirements are allowed - his caster level for his artifice arcanas fulfills this requirement. His spell-like abilities do meet requirements for specific spell knowledge if they mimic the required spell.

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I have notes on the other grades of artifice arcana and plan on expanding the fluff for the class. Please let me know what you think! :smallsmile:

It certainly looks cool, although I'm not sure on balance or anything. Very cool though. :)

As I said in a PM, there is an issue with an int-based class with 4+int mod skill points having a skill list that short.

I would suggest expanding the skill list with at least 2 or 3 skills - Listen, Knowledge (Architecture), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (or simply all knowledge skills) and Search.

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Originally Posted by Shadowleaf

As I said in a PM, there is an issue with an int-based class with 4+int mod skill points having a skill list that short.

I would suggest expanding the skill list with at least 2 or 3 skills - Listen, Knowledge (Architecture), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (or simply all knowledge skills) and Search.

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All Knowledge skills sounds good. It's not a trapfinding class, so probably not going to give it Search.

I think I'll change the Self Repair amount. 2x Max Ranks in Craft is pretty low. I'm considering either 2x Highest Crafts Ranks or [Int Mod x Highest Craft Rank]. The Int Mod option is more akin to the Paladin's lay on hands and I'm leaning towards that option.

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Regarding Lesser Artifice Arcana: Roughly equivalent to other Lesser Invocations from other classes. There is a flight one, a blindsense one, the next version of Armor Modification and a few that replicate Sor/Wiz spells (Arcane Sight, Dim Door, Fire Shield, Nondetection, Tongues).

If all of the artifice abilities are at will why not make them all twenty-four hours instead of having some last ten minutes per level? All that does is add some unnecessary bookkeeping to the class.

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Originally Posted by Zore

If all of the artifice abilities are at will why not make them all twenty-four hours instead of having some last ten minutes per level? All that does is add some unnecessary bookkeeping to the class.

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Good point. Consider them changed. :smallsmile:

It seems kind of weird that an Artificer-flavored Warlock loses the Warlock's UMD abilities...

Otherwise, though, I really like this! It's a really cool concept, building all of these abilities into yourself. I like it, cuz I never would have thought of it, but seeing it, it makes so much sense!

I really like it, but I have one problem. Part of what I always loved about the warlock were the shape and essence invocations, they always appealed to me more than just standard at-will abilities, but it's also what many invocation-using-classes get rid of.

Other than that, I second the UMD ability call.

Summary of changes to be made:
- Add all Knowledge skills to the class skill list.
- Change all invocation durations to 24 hours.
- Add the Deceive Item and Imbue Item class features.
- Change Self-Repair to [Int Mod x Highest Craft Rank].

I'm staying away from the Blast & Shape Essences, at least for now, because I didn't want to totally copy the Warlocks abilities. While the Warlock has some versatility in it's Eldritch Blast via the Essences, the Reforged Savant has versatility in it's protections via the Armor Modification/Enhancement artifices, and the Energy Modification artifices.

Essence of The Construct is listed at level 4, but:

Essence of the Construct (Ex) The addition of the artifice arcana to the reforged savants body strengthens it, granting it some of the resiliences that a true construct has. At 4th level the reforged savant becomes immune to nonlethal damage.

At 8th level the reforged savant gains immunity to ability damage & ability drain. (...)

There is no effect at level 4.

Read before posting, Shadowleaf, read before posting!

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Originally Posted by Shadowleaf

Essence of The Construct is listed at level 4, but:

Essence of the Construct (Ex) The addition of the artifice arcana to the reforged savants body strengthens it, granting it some of the resiliences that a true construct has. At 4th level the reforged savant becomes immune to nonlethal damage.

At 8th level the reforged savant gains immunity to ability damage & ability drain. (...)

There is no effect at level 4.

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(emphasis mine)

Uhm, yes there is? Hehe.

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Originally Posted by Chambers

Summary of changes to be made:
- Add all Knowledge skills to the class skill list.
- Change all invocation durations to 24 hours.
- Add the Deceive Item and Imbue Item class features.
- Change Self-Repair to [Int Mod x Highest Craft Rank].

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These changes have been made. I'm finishing up the Lesser Artifices now.

Edit:

Lesser Artifices are posted.

It seems to lack pretty much all offensive abilities. Flat defensive abilities aren't that neat (soulknife problem, essentially), and while it gets good movement abilities, the lack of offense besides blasting at a single targer is pretty meh.

1. Fluff disconnect: Uses warforged components but doesn't qualify to use the standard warforged components.

2. Combat: Needs a bit more offensive power. While I understand you don't want to totally copy the warlock, having something similar to essences and shapes would help. Maybe some Artifice Arcana to duplicate some offensive spells?

3. Housekeeping: Starting gold for level 1? Starting age? Do you need the "+" prefixing the Gauntlet damage? "Least, Lesser, Greater, or Dark" is unnecessary and just drains space on the table, which should be streamlined.

4. Skills: I find ranged combat focused classes without spot as a skill a bit, silly. Decipher Script should be had as the methods to create warforged were discovered and used by "someone d'Cannith" in Xendirk. Disable device, because even if these people don't know how to find traps, they would know what parts of a mechanical device are most important.

However, that's mainly minor stuff, and as everything else is awesome. I looking forward to playing this when I find a suitable game and I'm in the mood for a blastificer or Deceive item focused warlock.

*embarassingly gushing thanks*

thankyouthankyouthankyou. I've been looking for an Artificer/Warlock for a few months now...well ta-da!
Just to jump the gun a bit, how would you imagine the hybrid PrC of this and another spellcasting class to look? Mystic Theurge (or Eldritch Theurge if you're aware of Complete Mage) style because that's what I really envisioned - Imagine a Hammer Blast with Disable Construct tagged on with Spellblast....that'd be groovy, to say the least

I'll be watching this with fanboy-esque fascination

Honestly, I'd just go ahead and give this class a d10 hit die and full base attack bonus. I'd probably also increase the damage of the melee bludgeoning attack as it gains levels. Something like 1d3->1d6->1d8->2d6->2d8->3d6->3d8->4d6->4d8->5d6, so that it remains at half the damage of the eldritch blast (you could simply do 1d3->2d3->3d3, etc, but that seems distasteful to me).

The hit die increase gives it a smidge more survivability, while the increased BAB and bludgeoning damage gives it just enough offensive oomph to round it out. Since this class eliminates a lot of the standard utility and offensive options available to the Warlock and emphasizes on personal defensive buffs, I actually assumed that this would be more of a warrior-tank type before I took another look at the table.

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Originally Posted by Ziegander

Honestly, I'd just go ahead and give this class a d10 hit die and full base attack bonus.

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That is possibly one of the worse idea's I've ever heard.
This is a casting class. It has magic. It doesn't need Fighter HP and BAB.

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Originally Posted by Ziegander

Something like 1d3->1d6->1d8->2d6->2d8->3d6->3d8->4d6->4d8->5d6, so that it remains at half the damage of the eldritch blast (you could simply do 1d3->2d3->3d3, etc, but that seems distasteful to me).

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Good idea, but I'd go 1d3->2d3->3d3 ect. for consistency. The averages for 1d3->2d3->3d3->4d3->5d3->6d3->7d3->8d3->9d3->10d3
are
1.5->3 ->4.5->6 ->7.5->9 ->10.5->12 ->13.5->15

But the averages for
1d3->1d6->1d8->2d6->2d8->3d6->3d8->4d6->4d8->5d6
are
1.5 ->3.5 ->4.5->7 ->9 ->10.5->13.5->14->18->17.5

While the d6->d8 progression goes up a bit faster, It is far less consistent than the d3->d3 progression. Notice how the d6->d8 progression actually goes down in average damage at the end.

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Originally Posted by jojolagger

That is possibly one of the worse idea's I've ever heard.
This is a casting class. It has magic. It doesn't need Fighter HP and BAB.

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Wow, well, since you were rude I don't feel bad being rude back. That's possibly one of the worst arguments I've ever heard. That's like saying, "The Paladin is a casting class. It has magic. It doesn't need Fighter HP and BAB." This isn't like a normal Warlock in the sense that it has far less offensive and utility magic. It has limited utility, very limited offensive power, but a lot of defensive capability. Actually, in breadth of ability (if not necessarily in power), that makes it comparable to the Paladin.

EDIT: Point is, this class is missing something in comparison to the Warlock, a class already regarded by many to be on the weaker end of the class spectrum. The BAB and hp increase are a small tweak that may push it up just far enough.

Of course, another suggestion would simply be to give it some more offensive and utility magical/artifice-y abilities.

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Good idea, but I'd go 1d3->2d3->3d3 ect. for consistency. The averages for 1d3->2d3->3d3->4d3->5d3->6d3->7d3->8d3->9d3->10d3
are
1.5->3 ->4.5->6 ->7.5->9 ->10.5->12 ->13.5->15

But the averages for
1d3->1d6->1d8->2d6->2d8->3d6->3d8->4d6->4d8->5d6
are
1.5 ->3.5 ->4.5->7 ->9 ->10.5->13.5->14->18->17.5

While the d6->d8 progression goes up a bit faster, It is far less consistent than the d3->d3 progression. Notice how the d6->d8 progression actually goes down in average damage at the end.

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Yeesh. That is wonky. Thanks for pointing that out. While I dislike the idea of rolling 10d3, it's certainly more consistent than the other option.

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Originally Posted by Ziegander

That's like saying, "The Paladin is a casting class. It has magic. It doesn't need Fighter HP and BAB."

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The paladin has half casting, this has warlock-esque casting. Big difference.

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Originally Posted by Ziegander

This isn't like a normal Warlock in the sense that it has far less offensive and utility magic. It has limited utility, very limited offensive power, but a lot of defensive capability. Actually, in breadth of ability (if not necessarily in power), that makes it comparable to the Paladin.

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Just the unlimited blast of xd6 makes it far different from the Paladin. lesser Armour modification Alone is very versitle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ziegander

EDIT: Point is, this class is missing something in comparison to the Warlock, a class already regarded by many to be on the weaker end of the class spectrum. The BAB and hp increase are a small tweak that may push it up just far enough.

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For a class that focuses on casting, Full BAB and d10 hd are bad for balance. It might balance it, but fighter types would complain.

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Originally Posted by Ziegander

Of course, another suggestion would simply be to give it some more offensive and utility magical/artifice-y abilities.

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+ More varied magic. good.

Thanks for the comments. The lack of attack versatility is something that's been brought up numerous times, so I guess I should do something about it. :smallsmile:

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Originally Posted by jojolagger

Just the unlimited blast of xd6 makes it far different from the Paladin. lesser Armour modification Alone is very versitle.

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I feel like you're joking now. I know you can calculate average damage. You act like having unlimited blasting is something dangerous or inherently powerful. Seriously, at 10th level you're dealing 5d6, an average of 17.5. Or, a 10th level Paladin (Str 22) could charge/power attack/leap attack/shock tropper a guy and come at him for 2d6+9+double his AC. Before adding the power attack damage he's 1.5 behind. After adding the power attack damage the Paladin is dealing head and shoulders more damage than the blast. Yes, you would be correct to say that the Paladin has invested his feats to make sure his charges deal lots of damage, but I would point out that you remember the Warlock and this class by extension literally can't take any feats to optimize his blast damage, so it really doesn't matter. Yes, the blast is a touch attack, but then gain this class has medium BAB while the Paladin has full BAB so they will end up hitting just about as often.

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For a class that focuses on casting, Full BAB and d10 hd are bad for balance. It might balance it, but fighter types would complain.

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Duskblade. Did Fighter types complain when they saw it? Yeah. Then people played it and calmed down. Casters complained when they saw the Warlock. "OMG, it's broken!" people cried. Then people played it and realized it's really not that hot at all.

I realize adding more offensive spell-like abilities to the class is probably the way the OP is going to go. But seriously adding full BAB and d10 hit dice would not make this class overpowered at all.

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Originally Posted by Ziegander

Duskblade. Did Fighter types complain when they saw it? Yeah. Then people played it and calmed down. Casters complained when they saw the Warlock. "OMG, it's broken!" people cried. Then people played it and realized it's really not that hot at all.

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Duskblade only has d8 hd, and doesn't get casting it focuses on to the point of this class.

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Originally Posted by Ziegander

I feel like you're joking now. I know you can calculate average damage. You act like having unlimited blasting is something dangerous or inherently powerful.

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Unlimited blasting, while not hugely dangerous or inherently powerful, becomes far better when you can stay safe while blasting. This class buff defense majorly.

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Originally Posted by Ziegander

Seriously, at 10th level you're dealing 5d6, an average of 17.5. Or, a 10th level Paladin (Str 22) could charge/power attack/leap attack/shock tropper a guy and come at him for 2d6+9+double his AC. Before adding the power attack damage he's 1.5 behind. After adding the power attack damage the Paladin is dealing head and shoulders more damage than the blast.

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Okay, I fly up 20 feet, let's see him do that now.

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Originally Posted by Ziegander

Yes, the blast is a touch attack, but then gain this class has medium BAB while the Paladin has full BAB so they will end up hitting just about as often.

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So at level 20 The difference between touch and normal ac is about 5? Are you kidding here.