How I believe the Durkula awareness reveal will go.

Belkar is obviously aware already and that's our link to the inevitable reveal to the rest of the party that Durkula is indeed a bloodsucking abomination and not our good pal Durkon. Belkar's initial concerns are actually going to be the push that sets the dominos in motion. One down.

Elan will be the next member to find out. He'll hear something he shouldn't have and that'll convince him. A nice touch of irony to the stupidity of villains announcing their evil plans aloud. Also a nice opportunity to reveal Hel's scheme to the audience. Look at that, two reveals with one stone. Anyway, Elan will run to tell Roy and the fool won't believe him because Elan didn't see with his own eyes or have any physical proof. Roy will brush the whole thing off as Elan hearing things and Elan will join Belkar's cause. Two down.

Elan will of course tell Haley and she will of course believe him. Three down.

Vaarsuvius I admit is a bit trickier. I don't quite know how he/she will find out exactly, but he/she is the crucial piece required to checkmate the King. Perhaps amidst a battle, Durkula will make a crucial magical error; an error no Lawful Good cleric could make. Vaarsuvius and his/her vast intellect will register the mistake and tell Roy immediately rather than withhold information as in the past. A nice touch of character development for V and another one joins the fold. Four down.

However, the Fiends will anticipate Roy will believe V and withhold her/his soul again. This necessary lag in time will be just what Roy needs to seed denial into his brain. V will tell him and he'll will have no reason to doubt it now. Why should he? V is calculating, V is logical, V wouldn't say Durkon is a vampire unless Durkon was a vampire. But why would V wait to tell Roy? He/she told Roy about the planet in the rift during Tarquin's attack, why wait around this time? You have doubts don't you V? What's the REAL reason the Fiends withheld your soul during the battle? Were you about to stop the bad guys or something? Durkula will of course deny it and Roy will STILL believe him. Roy won't accept V's findings. His pride won't let him believe he let his best friend die. Deep down I think he'll know, but he won't accept it.

Until THAT battle comes. What battle you ask? You know what battle I'm talking about. Durkula will be about to enact the final step in Hel's plan when who will stumble upon the evil vampire once again? Belkar. Their duel will result in yet another timely appearance of another Order member: this time it will be Roy. He'll see Belkar dying at Durkula's hands or fangs in this case and that'll be all the proof Roy needs. Royal Flush.

Roy will destroy Durkula and then admit to Belkar he was right all along as well as recognize and praise his usefulness before passing.

And that is how I see it happening.


TL;DR - Belkar convinces Elan, Haley, V, and finally Roy in that order.

I have an alternate proposal. The High Priest of Hel will tip his hand at some point, either deliberately or accidentally; he may well simply get to a point where he no longer finds the Order helpful or thinks they're relevant and stop acting. The Order will all* become aware that he's not Durkon at the same time, and from that time forward there will be no ambiguity that he is not.

*Not counting Belkar, whether or not he lives that long.

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Originally Posted by Kish

I have an alternate proposal. The High Priest of Hel will tip his hand at some point, either deliberately or accidentally; he may well simply get to a point where he no longer finds the Order helpful or thinks they're relevant and stop acting. The Order will all* become aware that he's not Durkon at the same time, and from that time forward there will be no ambiguity that he is not.

*Not counting Belkar, whether or not he lives that long.

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Corollary: some of the Order will continue to not be aware after that point.

Im thinkin that i gotta stop reading the forums. Gahhhh! Now i gotta force myself to not read OotS for another year!


Jk i thing The Giant has a different way of making it happen. And if Roy found out through a crappy listen check, itd be suuuuper lame.

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Originally Posted by XxXU2XxX

However, the Fiends will anticipate Roy will believe V and withhold her/his soul again. This necessary lag in time will be just what Roy needs to seed denial into his brain. V will tell him and he'll will have no reason to doubt it now. Why should he? V is calculating, V is logical, V wouldn't say Durkon is a vampire unless Durkon was a vampire. But why would V wait to tell Roy? He/she told Roy about the planet in the rift during Tarquin's attack, why wait around this time? You have doubts don't you V? What's the REAL reason the Fiends withheld your soul during the battle? Were you about to stop the bad guys or something? Durkula will of course deny it and Roy will STILL believe him. Roy won't accept V's findings. His pride won't let him believe he let his best friend die. Deep down I think he'll know, but he won't accept it.

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I wasn't aware Durkon being a vampire or not was in question.

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Originally Posted by Senselesstaste

I wasn't aware Durkon being a vampire or not was in question.

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You know what I meant.

OP here. I don't mean to double post, but does no one have any legitimate thoughts on this idea? I'd hate to see my analysis shrivel up and die...

My thought is that it says very bad things about a work if you can predict exactly how a volume of it is going to go.

Beyond that, though, apparently disagreeing is not "legitimate," so, have fun with that.

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Originally Posted by Kish

My thought is that it says very bad things about a work if you can predict exactly how a volume of it is going to go.

Beyond that, though, apparently disagreeing is not "legitimate," so, have fun with that.

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Wasn't really talking about your post friend. But perhaps I misspoke. By legitimate I meant "analytical reasons why these chain of events do or don't make sense." Just by reading the comic for so long I can sort of tell what is or is not in character for our heroes and thinking about to the end, these just seemed like a logical chain of events to me. I guess I was just expecting a more seasoned discussion and ended up with nothing, but that's on me I suppose.

I believe that the Order will realize that it's not Durkon when HPoH will bring death & destruction to the dwarven lands.

Roy's usefulness is already in doubt (reduced to holding a rope)
I think it would be a bit too much for him to lose to all of the order.
Would Rich be able to reestablish Roy as a hero?
I expect more spotlight for Roy coming so his intellect can be redeemed.

> Roy will destroy Durkula and then admit to Belkar
> he was right all along as well as recognize and
> praise his usefulness before passing.

This sounds as an good arc ending.

Elan already had his great moment calling Julio Scoundrél.
If he overhears, the proper trope would of course be to inform the others too late.

Recluso

It is my belief that Belkar will be turned into a vampire spawn and killed when Durkula forces his minion into the sun without his protections. This will lead to Roy's discovery, through attempting to find the missing Belkar, to conclude that Durkula was the last to see the halfling, and after many long, angst-filled panels of denial, Roy will conclude that Durkula isn't Durkon any more.

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Originally Posted by XxXU2XxX

Elan will be the next member to find out. He'll hear something he shouldn't have and that'll convince him. A nice touch of irony to the stupidity of villains announcing their evil plans aloud. Also a nice opportunity to reveal Hel's scheme to the audience. Look at that, two reveals with one stone. Anyway, Elan will run to tell Roy and the fool won't believe him because Elan didn't see with his own eyes or have any physical proof. Roy will brush the whole thing off as Elan hearing things and Elan will join Belkar's cause. Two down.

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The same Elan who didn't realize Tarquin was evil? The same Elan who didn't realize Haley had a crush on him?

No way he'll figure it out that easily. Even if he did hear something, he'll deny it until Durkula literally attacks the rest of the party in front of him.

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Originally Posted by Ettina

The same Elan who didn't realize Tarquin was evil? The same Elan who didn't realize Haley had a crush on him?

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That would be a nice reversal of our expectations, though.

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Originally Posted by brian 333

It is my belief that Belkar will be turned into a vampire spawn and killed when Durkula forces his minion into the sun without his protections. This will lead to Roy's discovery, through attempting to find the missing Belkar, to conclude that Durkula was the last to see the halfling, and after many long, angst-filled panels of denial, Roy will conclude that Durkula isn't Durkon any more.

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Interesting thought-I like the idea. I think Roy might go from annoyed that Belkar's missing to frustrated to worried to having some proof, like if Durkula misstated what his alibi was when Belkar went missing. I also think Bloodfeast and Mr. Scruffy will have something to do with it, almost like Belkar's ranger abilities finally being used.

Anything could happen. They may run into someone that could resurrect Durkon right off the bat and he'll have to bail because the undead durkon doesn't want to die.

Or maybe they find out and stop him straightaway, but maybe something keep Durkon from getting resurrected. Some dark godly power or such.

The most likely scenario though it that everyone finds out and tells Roy but Roy doesn't believe them until it's too late. Then Roy will most likely go on a crusade to find Durkula wherever he may be hiding and transform him back into Durkon to ease his conscience.

Also, this is my first post on the boards even though I've been following the comic a while. Hi, guys!

We need to have a Durkula Awareness Month^tm to rectify this.

Who wants black wristbands!

i think durkula will be so bored on the dwarven lands that he will reveal himself.

'Couple major problems with this theory.

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Originally Posted by XxXU2XxX

Anyway, Elan will run to tell Roy and the fool won't believe him because Elan didn't see with his own eyes or have any physical proof. Roy will brush the whole thing off as Elan hearing things and Elan will join Belkar's cause. Two down.

Elan will of course tell Haley and she will of course believe him. Three down.

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Roy doesn't believe Belkar because Belkar is untrustworthy. Elan is trustworthy, so Roy will believe that Elan is accurately reporting what Elan thinks occurred. He may think Elan misheard or misunderstood something that happened, but if he can't come up with an explanation that mollifies Haley, he'll investigate further. So either Haley and Roy learn together here, or they together believe it's still Durkon.

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Originally Posted by XxXU2XxX

Perhaps amidst a battle, Durkula will make a crucial magical error; an error no Lawful Good cleric could make. Vaarsuvius and his/her vast intellect will register the mistake and tell Roy immediately rather than withhold information as in the past.

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Vaarsuvius' vast intellect does not extend to a familiarity with clerical magic.

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Originally Posted by XxXU2XxX

However, the Fiends will anticipate Roy will believe V and withhold her/his soul again. This necessary lag in time will be just what Roy needs to seed denial into his brain. V will tell him and he'll will have no reason to doubt it now. Why should he? V is calculating, V is logical, V wouldn't say Durkon is a vampire unless Durkon was a vampire. But why would V wait to tell Roy? He/she told Roy about the planet in the rift during Tarquin's attack, why wait around this time?

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Being without a soul isn't exactly subtle, and "I was unconscious" is an excellent answer to the question of "why didn't you say something".

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Originally Posted by XxXU2XxX

[TL but did read] And that is how I see it happening.

TL;DR - Belkar convinces Elan, Haley, V, and finally Roy in that order.

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The biggest flaw in your theory is that it is too involved and too detailed. I counterpredict two things:
- that not even 50% of your prediction will occur as you described. (nearly sure in my opinion)
- that the true evil not-Durkon identity of HoH is revealed with the whole group present, and Durkon will not return to the living before at least 100 strips from now (of course, anything can happen, but the less detailed you do your prophesies, the more likely they will come true. :smallamused:)

V already is aware of Durkon's untrustworthiness. Roy doubts, but was recently reassured. We don't know about Haley's feelings yet, afair. Only Elan seems currently being restlessly persuaded.

A word on Belkar: He was never the guy for team work. He is currently turning go... less evil. It would be boring if he'd just be a good teammate now. No, instead he is still a pain in the ass BECAUSE he is turning goo... less evil. Than Durkon, at least.
Belkar is pretty often "the foil", as Tarquin put it. He is comedy gold, as Belkar bosted to Shojo. But to be honest: The old Belkar/V rivalry revolving around the "Incident" was old and boring. The old Roy/Belkar rivalry revolving around Belkar challenging Roy's ability to lead was also boring. But the Belkar/Durkon rivalry was pretty lame before, because Durkon rarely stroke back. This is now spiced up and should be played for laughs and tears, for a long time.

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Originally Posted by XxXU2XxX

Belkar is obviously aware already and that's our link to the inevitable reveal to the rest of the party that Durkula is indeed a bloodsucking abomination and not our good pal Durkon.

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Point of contention:

They already know he's a bloodsucking abomination*. What they think however is that this bloodsucking abomination is willing to act in a similar manner as "their old friend Durkon" since this world is where he keeps all his stuff.

Basically they know "Durkula" is evil and will probably turn on them the moment it's in Vampire Durkon's best interest, but right now he's as useful as Belkar usually is. Probably more so.


My bet? Right after they locate a means to rez Durkon, Roy springs his trap, kills the vamp and gets the good old Durkon back. Unfortunately the Vampire will have already vamped the local High Priest of Thor... and since Dwarves are known for not wanting to go above ground it won;t be noticed till it's too late for the Dwarven Lands...



* Vampires aren't Abominations, they're Undead Augmented Humanoids or Undead Monstrous Humanoids... but that's neither here nor there. :smallwink:

I think we'll get 200-foot-tall flaming letters or something.

Or a pyramid full of mummies will reveal the truth.

Or Thog will swing through a window in a leprechaun suit.

Or Elan will realize that his family isn't really going to work out its problems and have a heartwarming wedding.

Or Vaarsuvius will say the right four words to the right being at the right time for all the wrong reasons.

Or the HPoH will bathe in the OotS' blood with lavender bath gel and a good loofah.

Or ...

Just face it. We've never been any good at predicting how Rich will reveal something.

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Originally Posted by Jay R

I think we'll get 200-foot-tall flaming letters or something.

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I kinda expected something similar to the 200 foot tall flaming letters. But only because a) Haley said it and b) we all knew how cartoonishly mustache-twirlingly evil Tarquin was by then.





But yes, your point is taken. Mr. Burlew is quite good at surprising us.

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Originally Posted by XxXU2XxX

He'll see Belkar dying at Durkula's hands or fangs in this case and that'll be all the proof Roy needs. Royal Flush.

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Didn't V already mention, after Belkar complained about Durkula trying to kill him, that attempting to kill Belkar isn't proof of anyone being evil?

roy is the 2nd most suspicious member of the order after Belkar (wierdly enough) so if Elan could convince haley then he could convince Roy

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Originally Posted by Reddish Mage

Didn't V already mention, after Belkar complained about Durkula trying to kill him, that attempting to kill Belkar isn't proof of anyone being evil?

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Actually, V is well aware that the vampire is evil. V is even currently distrustful of the vampire.

And in light of the fact that V claimed once that V's knowledge of the denizens of the underworld was unmatched, V might even suspect that the vampire isn't Durkon, only confirmed by Belkar. But as said in 960, the new, think-before-blast-V doesn't dare judge the motives of the vampire. Yet.

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Originally Posted by Onyavar

And in light of the fact that V claimed once that V's knowledge of the denizens of the underworld was unmatched, V might even suspect that the vampire isn't Durkon, only confirmed by Belkar. But as said in 960, the new, think-before-blast-V doesn't dare judge the motives of the vampire. Yet.

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V's knowledge of the denizens of the underworld has been exceeded, at least by Eugene. But technically, it has never been matched :smallamused:

Honestly, I'm not sure how much this matters :smallwink:

A lot of these discussions see a lot of people insisting "Roy's treatment of Durkula is based on the assumption that he's still Durkon, and Roy would turn on Durkula if he ever learns the truth," but Roy has said that his treatment of Durkula is already based on the assumption that he might not be Durkon, so confirmation of this fact wouldn't actually change anything.

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Originally Posted by Ettina

The same Elan who didn't realize Tarquin was evil? The same Elan who didn't realize Haley had a crush on him?

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No, the Elan who's just gone through tremendous growth of character through the Girard's Illusion scene. It would be terrible if Elan had all that character growth and it _didn't_ manifest in how perceptive he is. Even Redcloak has demonstrated that.

We're way past due to have Belkar take "his last breath ever". I think that event and Durkula's reveal will be one and the same - they're just happening too close together to not be related somehow. My personal guess was that Belkar would "live on" as a vampire (not needing to breathe), but what we've learned about what vampires really are makes me doubt that now.

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Originally Posted by Tragak

Honestly, I'm not sure how much this matters :smallwink:

A lot of these discussions see a lot of people insisting "Roy's treatment of Durkula is based on the assumption that he's still Durkon, and Roy would turn on Durkula if he ever learns the truth," but Roy has said that his treatment of Durkula is already based on the assumption that he might not be Durkon, so confirmation of this fact wouldn't actually change anything.

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It would also be confirmation that Durkula has been lying to the party, which changes the dynamic somewhat. Even so, that wouldn't make immediate staking reasonable.