Magic the Gathering IX: Gone Through Lotus of Threads Already!

It's probably Red nowadays, since Hatred was printed back when Red's themes didn't really extend beyond fire and stupidity.

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Originally Posted by Suedars

It's probably Red nowadays, since Hatred was printed back when Red's themes didn't really extend beyond fire and stupidity.

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Well, that depends. White actually has more prejudice than most. And that's not including cards they felt were okay to timeshift, like Sunlance. So arguably, White and Black are the most "hateful" colors.

Yes, you could argue that Red is hate, but Red is much less hate and much more anger. Hatred is so directed at a single target, so focused on doing specific things. Most of the time, Red would not be constrained by an emotion such as hate, Red would just do what it feels like. Hatred is actually a pretty constraining emotion, if you've ever really hated something.

If you hate everything though, it's not nearly as constraining.

Red doesn't hate everything, though. It just does what it wants. No one who is Red hates everything. In fact, no one hates everything.

Except Hidetsugu. He's pretty good at hating.

By the storyline, Hidetsugu didn't hate everything. And Hidetsugu hated, sure. So did Greven, he has a card for it too. Just because a character hates doesn't mean a whole color hates. People are capable of hatred.

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Originally Posted by tgva8889

Well, that depends. White actually has more prejudice than most. And that's not including cards they felt were okay to timeshift, like Sunlance. So arguably, White and Black are the most "hateful" colors.

Yes, you could argue that Red is hate, but Red is much less hate and much more anger. Hatred is so directed at a single target, so focused on doing specific things. Most of the time, Red would not be constrained by an emotion such as hate, Red would just do what it feels like. Hatred is actually a pretty constraining emotion, if you've ever really hated something.

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Hate in the sense of color hate is different than hatred though. And Red is very much constrained by its emotions, whether they're love, hate, fear, or anything else. Being ruled/free from emotions is the core of the Red/Blue conflict.

Well, "constrained by emotions" depends on point of view. But hatred is not just an emotion, hatred is a point of view. I mean, if hate were just an emotion, I don't think there would not be organizations designed purely to fuel hate. I think it more depends on what we are defining as "hate", because there's a lot of different ways to view "hate".

And I'm not talking about "color hate", I'm talking about prejudice. White and Black are the two colors that show the most prejudice, that is the "Only Us, if you aren't us you're one of them" mentality. Thus, I would suppose that those two colors would be most likely to have Hate, because you only hate what does not fit in your own group, and White and Black are the main group-forming colors, at least in my experience.

Yeah, prejudice definitely isn't Red. I suppose what color hate is probably depends on the variety of the hate. I can't see the hatred someone feels for a close friend who slept with their girlfriend as anything but Red. Broad prejudice based hate is definitely White though.

Also I don't really see the "With us or against us" type thing as really being Black at all. Certain B organizations across various blocks might have practiced it, but it's not really part of Black thematically. It seems purely White to me.

Well, Black has had that influence on White before (See: Orzhov). I suppose it is mostly White alone. I think Black is the most likely to hate in a "Hate drives to succeed" type way? How would Black hate, actually? Hatred is certainly a card that is Black, but I'm not sure whether that feeling is actually hate.

Obviously the fact that there are broad definitions of hate doesn't really help matters. :smalltongue:

I think hatred is a black card in the sense that the Hate is driving Greven to do whatever it takes to get revenge (I.E. Pay 10 life to kill the guy playing Gerrad)

Hate has red ties, certainly. Vendettas tend to be more black.

I HATE EVERYTHING.

Okay, what's my prize? I play blue.

The logic behind hating everything just doesn't work. You can't hate everything, because then you would be a paradox.

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Originally Posted by tgva8889

The logic behind hating everything just doesn't work. You can't hate everything, because then you would be a paradox.

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No, you would only hate yourself. Isn't someone who hates everything pretty contemptible, after all?

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Originally Posted by Recaiden

No, you would only hate yourself. Isn't someone who hates everything pretty contemptible, after all?

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If you hated everything, I imagine you'd want to die, because you'd hate living. But you'd also hate dying, so that'd be right out. You'd also hate doing both anything and nothing, hate existing and not existing, etc. etc. Paradox. You can't hate everything.

Not sure what color hating yourself would be. Black seems most likely, just 'cause there's more cards in Black that hurt you when you use them than any other color.

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Originally Posted by tgva8889

If you hated everything, I imagine you'd want to die, because you'd hate living. But you'd also hate dying, so that'd be right out. You'd also hate doing both anything and nothing, hate existing and not existing, etc. etc. Paradox. You can't hate everything.

Not sure what color hating yourself would be. Black seems most likely, just 'cause there's more cards in Black that hurt you when you use them than any other color.

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Degrees of hate, my friend. Nothing says you must hate living just as much as dying, or acting as much as not acting.

Now, I think Red, because red gets emotions.

I want to build a standard deck around Blightsteel Colossi and the best way to cheat them out. Right now, for the main combo, I'm looking at something like:
2x Blightsteel Colossus (can go up, but for now, 2 is all I have)
3x Precursor Golem
4x Shape Anew

The idea is to get out a Precursor Golem, then use Shape Anew on it, revealing at the very least one Blightsteel, since those will be the only 5 artifacts in the deck. Grand Architect probably deserves to be in the deck, along with Treasure Mage, in order to both be able to cast the Precursor before turn 5 as well as fetch a Blightsteel to hard cast it if necessary. The question is, what to do with the rest of the deck? I could keep it mono blue, but it feels like I leave myself too open to aggro if I go that route, and I can't think of many blue creatures worth grabbing off the top of my head. Blue/white seems a good idea, but the more I go out of blue, the less valuable Grand Architect becomes as a card.

Also, another concern I had, if I don't get the combo pieces, it's hard to pull off successfully. And right now, it feels like there just aren't enough ways to cheat the thing into play, nor enough ways to get the things I need to cheat it into play.

I wouldn't go with Precursor Golem. You can't search them up with Trinket/Treasure Mage, meaning you actually need to run enough to draw one, decreasing your chances of hitting a Colossus. Take a look at Gerry T's list instead: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/s...Adventure.html

Chalice is good since you get 5 copies of it by running Trinket Mage, and it guarantees a hit. Inkmoth Nexuses also give you artifacts to shape without lowering your hit % (though shaping them only has a 50% hit chance).

If budget is an issue you can cut the big Jaces. I'd go up 2 See Beyonds and 2 little Jaces, though I'd have to test to be sure of it beyond a guess.

Aside from that you'll want to update the list to make it more suited to a CawBlade dominated meta. First, 2 Duresses should be Inquisitions, since 2 and 3 mana cards determine Standard right now. Grave Titan is too slow without heavy acceleration now, but I'm not sure what would go in its place. 2 maindeck Disfigures could be right, but that probably leaves you a little short on ways to close out the game.

You can run Shape Anew in a deck that plays just Master's Call and Inkmoth Nexus maybe?

I really don't enjoy that build list. What happens when you have two Shape Anew? Ideally, you'll get your Chalice out with the Trinket Mage, then Shape Anew it into the BSC. If you wind up with two Shape Anews, though, you have a dead card in hand. I don't like that very much. Also, I forgot that if you want to run blue in the current standard meta, you have to run Jace, the Walletsculptor, so scratch that idea. :smalltongue: Seriously though, I thought about it, and I just don't think it's a deck type I can enjoy. Ultimately, I am not a control player, and to pull the deck off, you have to be. Oh well, at least I have some trade fodder to use towards another deck.. now to figure out what I want. Hrm.

I'm working on a RUG tempo deck, but I'm having trouble rounding out the list


4x Wild Mongrel
4x Basking Rootwalla
4x Deep Analysis
4x Rune Snag
4x Mana Leak
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Chain Lightning
1x Grim Lavamancer


Ideally, I want another discard outlet (maybe waterfront bouncer), and probably a few more madness cards. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Squark

Ideally, I want another discard outlet (maybe waterfront bouncer), and probably a few more madness cards. Thoughts?

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If you have the budget for it, Fauna Shaman is a nice discard outlet for creatures; if you don't, a Looter (Merfolk or il-Kor depending on whose turn you want to do it on) will do.

Circular Logic? Fiery Temper? Aquamoeba works as a discard outlet, though there's probably stronger effects you can get out of your discard.

If you have the money, Vengevine is pretty much a Madness card.

Also, how many lands are you planning on playing? You can get away with a smaller number depending on what threats you plan to play.

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Originally Posted by Squark

I'm working on a RUG tempo deck, but I'm having trouble rounding out the list


4x Wild Mongrel
4x Basking Rootwalla
4x Deep Analysis
4x Rune Snag
4x Mana Leak
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Chain Lightning
1x Grim Lavamancer


Ideally, I want another discard outlet (maybe waterfront bouncer), and probably a few more madness cards. Thoughts?

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Careful Study is a solid one shot discard outlet. Looter Il-Kor is another great one. In my pauper deck I use Wild Mongrel, Careful Study, Gathan Raider and Looter Il-Kor as my outlets.

Anyways, yeah, You really want Circular Logic. It's a great card. Also 4x Ponder. You also really want to consider Werebears for your deck.

I was planning on nixing Fauna Shaman, since I didn't think I'd have quite enough creatures.

Loot Il-kor... How did I miss that guy. Yeah, I definitely need to get my hands on a play set.


If I get my hands on both Circular logic and Fiery temper (Circular logic being relatively scarce as uncommons go), I'll consider Careful Study; Otherwise, it has the potential to just generate card disadvantage.


Possible List

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Creatures- 16:
4x Wild Mongrel
4x Wearbear
4x Basking Rootwalla
4x Looter Il-kor

Spells - 24
2x Careful Study
2x Deep Analysis
4x Ponder
4x Rune Snag
4x Circular Logic
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Fiery Temper

Lands- 20

Since I'm going for a reasonably cheap deck, how would you suggest setting up the mana base? Also, is it just me, or is the threat count low here. Would Raging Ravine work well here?

Basically, that's my pauper deck with some red. Frankly, I think the red doesn't really belong. You could do better with UG. Easier to fix the colors too.

Anyways, here's more or less what I'd do:

Spoiler

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Creatures: 15
4x Wild Mongrel
4x Werebear
4x Basking Rootwalla
4x Looter Il-Kor
3x Gathan Raiders

Spells:
3x Careful Study
4x Ponder
4x Circular Logic
4x Mana Leak/Rune Snag
3x Deep Analysis
4x Aether Burst
3x ???

Lands: 20

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Originally Posted by Triscuitable

I HATE EVERYTHING.

Okay, what's my prize? I play blue.

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Oh, for the record, the colour you play the most doesn't really reflect the colour you are.

Everyone who plays Magic is a blue mage.

I wouldn't say so. Competitive players sure. But a lot of the casual crowd probably fall in more as Red or Green, at least in their magic tendencies.

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Originally Posted by Suedars

I wouldn't say so. Competitive players sure. But a lot of the casual crowd probably fall in more as Red or Green, at least in their magic tendencies.

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I have never met a player who's only goal in Magic was to play a bunch of creatures and that was it.