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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tychris1
My thoughts exactly incomp. Why are you beating up a seal? Of all things a seal? That's just cruel and jerkish.
Also what's so good about Razorbacks?
They're cheap, carry twelve, and can be taken as dedicated transports.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HalfTangible
They're cheap, carry twelve, and can be taken as dedicated transports.
Razorbacks can only carry 6. So a unit of 5 and an IC.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zorg
My thoughts on Rasorspam:
Spoiler
Show
I like small tanks and I cannot lie,
You other brothers can't deny,
That when a girl walks in with an Battlefoam Case,
And a Razor list in your face,
You get sprung!
Wanna pull out? Tough!
'Cause you notice that 'back was stuffed,
Assault meltas and a Priest it’s bearing,
I'm hooked and I can't stop staring.
Oh baby, I wanna play you,
And something so new,
My clubmates tried to warn me,
But that ‘back you got makes m-m-m-me so horny
Ooh, she’s Raz-o'-back-in,
You say you wanna Pitch Deploy?
Well, Annihilate me, Annihilate me,
'Cause you ain't that average groupie.
I've seen them glancin’,
To hell with lancin’,
She's sweat, wet,
Got it goin' like a Melta 'Vet.
I'm tired of magazines,
Sayin' fluff-bunnies are the thing,
Take the average blog man and ask him that -
She gotta pack Razorbacks!
So, fellas! (Yeah!) Fellas! (Yeah!)
Has your girlfriend got the ‘back? (Hell yeah!)
Tell 'em to spam it! (Spam it!) Spam it! (Spam it!)
Spam that MSU ‘back!
Baby got ‘backs!
(Demon paint on an ‘ard Boyz booty)
Baby got ‘backs!
I like 'em small, and on wheels,
And when I'm clubbing a seal,
I just can't help myself, I'm actin' like an animal
Now here's my scandal:
I wanna get you home
And ugh, double-up, ugh, ugh
I ain't talkin' bout Comp Score,
'Cause playin’ nice is such a bore,
I want lists tuned, tricked-out and nasty,
So bring that Leaf Blower,
Mix-a-Lot'll knock it over,
Gunnin’ for a place at that top table.
So I'm lookin' at bat-rep videos
Fluff-bunny carebares playin’ like schmoes,
You can have them newbies,
I'll keep my opponents like Kirby,
A word to the WAAC soul players, I wanna get with ya
I won't cuss or hit ya,
But I gotta be straight when I say I wanna *win* -
It’s the way I was born.
‘backs got it goin' on,
A lot of wimps won't like this song,
'Cause them punks like to hit it and quit it,
And I'd rather stay and play,
'Cause I'm long, and I'm strong,
And I'm down to get the RazorSpam on!
So, ladies! {Yeah!} Ladies! {Yeah}
If you wanna roll in my Mercedes? {Yeah!}
Then turn around! Stick it out!
Even Jervis has to shout
Baby got ‘backs!
Baby got ‘backs!
Yeah, baby ... when it comes to army lists, White Dwarf ain't got nothin',
to do with my selection. Vanilla Captain? Ha ha, only if he’s on a bike.
So your girlfriend rolls a Rhino, lovin’ to not move and fire from,
But Rhinos sitting still are just time bombs,
My army list don't want none,
Unless you've got guns, hun,
You can do Storm Ravens or Dreadnoughts,
But please don't lose that ‘back.
Some brothers wanna play that "comp" role,
And tell you that the ‘back ain't gold,
So they toss it and leave it,
And I pull up quick to retrieve it.
So BoLS says Sisters 're back,
Well I ain't down with that!
'Cause the ‘dex is small and Faith is stinkin’
But I'm still thinkin' bout switchin’,
To the metal dames in that magazine:
You ain't it, Miss Thing!
Give me plastic, I can't resist it,
Lead and FineCast just miss it!
Some knucklehead tried to dis,
'Cause melta-spam girls are on my list,
He had game but he chose to nerf 'em,
And I roll up quick and table 'im.
So ladies, if the ‘back is around,
And you want a hardcore throw down,
Dial 1-900-MIXALOT
And bring them nasty thoughts
Baby got 'BACKS!
I...I love you. Nothing, ever, will be as good as this. Ever. You have won all past and future threads, forever. I am slightly disappointed that you mention BoLS and Kirby, but not YTTH/Stelek - who should at least have a reference in this song considering the rest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tychris1
Also what's so good about Razorbacks?
Err...
Well, Here's why Rhinos are bad. But, Blood Angels also get cheaper Razorbacks that're also Fast to boot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tychris1
How cheap exactly?
Cheap enough to be better than anything else in Codex game.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Soooo, they're just cheaper Rhinos? I don't see why a transport would be broken or any trouble at all considering it's... well a transport.
And again, how cheap are they?
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tychris1
And again, how cheap are they?
Did you even read this that I already linked?
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tychris1
Soooo, they're just cheaper Rhinos? I don't see why a transport would be broken or any trouble at all considering it's... well a transport.
And again, how cheap are they?
55 points if i remember correctly.
And they're trouble because Razorbacks all get weaponry and are still vehicles, so they'll be able to get a BUNCH of rounds off before you can bring 'em down. If you unload your units as well...
Well, kiss something's butt goodbye.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
Yes, yes I did, but I don't know how much a Tactical Squad Marine costs, or how much the two weapons on the Razorback cost (or if they cost anything at all), and thus can't take away the proper numbers to get at how much they cost by themselves.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tychris1
My thoughts exactly incomp. Why are you beating up a seal? Of all things a seal? That's just cruel and jerkish.
Cruel and jerkish like for example running a BAzorback-spam list perhaps...?
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Razorbacks are good because...
For 55 points you can put a vehicle with a Twin linked heavy weapon on the board. For 85 points, you can make it a lascannon. This is exactly the same as a scout squad with missile launcher but it'll be a bad day if it doesn't hit as it's twin linked and BS4.
Blood Angels Assault squads, if they take their jump packs off, get a 35 point discount therefore, even if it's just a standard RB with Heavy Bolters or a T/L Heavy Flamer (rerolls to wound) you get this vehicle for 20 points, 50 if you splash on bigger guns.
Blood Angel RB's are also fast, they can go 18 inches, pop smoke and then be in your face next round, and that's assuming you're not playing Dawn of war and they start halfway up the table. They can also move 12 inches and still fire their primary weapon (only an issue with Las / plas, but still...)
Because they're so cheap, you'll be facing at least 6 of them. Plus another 6 for elites and fast attack possibly. That's a lot of tanks. Looking at my main 1500 point tournament list, I can maybe, if everything goes right and I get first turn, kill 4 of them before the rest turn up. And that's just the tanks, not their contents.
Also, because they're so cheap, there's a lot of room for other things in there. Considering that a fully tooled, 6 Razorback loaded with assault marines Troops choice selection comes in at 800 - 900 points roughly, figure another 150 or so for a HQ, that, in a lot of tournaments, leaves you 450 points for something big. Like a Gunship, or more Razorbacks toting Devastators that hug the baseline and throw lascannon shots at you.
A tac squad with Powerfist, Plasma gun and Plasma cannon is 210 points. Assault marines with a powerfist and melta gun and a Las / plas (ie the most expensive option) razorback is 225 points. For that extra 15 points, you get a vehicle with 2 very good guns (that don't overheat) albeit you lose a few ablative wounds.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tychris1
My thoughts exactly incomp. Why are you beating up a seal? Of all things a seal? That's just cruel and jerkish.
I'm not sure about @Zorg's particular area, but at my store, 'Clubbing a Seal' is vernacular for taking a Razorspam or similar-strength list against a fluff list or new player.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arcanoi
I'm not sure about @Zorg's particular area, but at my store, 'Clubbing a Seal' is vernacular for taking a Razorspam or similar-strength list against a fluff list or new player.
The song Zorg posted used a lot of vernacular and phrases that veteran and Internet players use...And I loved it. Made my day.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Marines got Razorbacks, Guard got lascannons. I fail to be particularly concerned by Razorspam, at least the variations on it that I've seen attempted in my metagame.
Anyway, I picked up a second Hellhound and a Basilisk at Gen Con. What are you converting that Basilisk into, I hear you say? Nothing! My metagame dictates that I require AP3 and the ability to fire directly, since everyone and their brother deep strikes power armored stuff inside 24" of my vehicles. I'm trying to rig a way to use an autocannon mount from my Aegis defense lines to make it switchable between Basilisk and Hydra, but honestly the terrain autocannon mounts just look ugly on a vehicle. Maybe that's just me, but I don't know. Also, is the Basilisk kit supposed to not have a heavy bolter hull mount in it? :smallconfused:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Renegade Paladin
Marines got Razorbacks, Guard got lascannons.
Guard are one of the few armies out there able to beat Razorspam reliably. Basically by having either (or both of!);
1. More Las- and Auto- Cannons than they have Razorbacks. At least by 50% or even 100% more. After you destroy their tanks, Razorspams are down to five-man squads which are easily picked off by Lasgun fire.
2. More Vehicles than Razorspam that also pack anti-everything weapons.
...I like Guard. :smallwink:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
Guard are one of the few armies out there able to beat Razorspam reliably. Basically by having either (or both of!);
1. More Las- and Auto- Cannons than they have Razorbacks. At least by 50% or even 100% more. After you destroy their tanks, Razorspams are down to five-man squads which are easily picked off by Lasgun fire.
2. More Vehicles than Razorspam that also pack anti-everything weapons.
...I like Guard. :smallwink:
Yeah, well. Sadly, the newest Marine player likes to centerpiece his Razorspam with a Land Raider Redeemer that will not die.:smallannoyed:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Renegade Paladin
Yeah, well. Sadly, the newest Marine player likes to centerpiece his Razorspam with a Land Raider Redeemer that will not die.:smallannoyed:
*cough*Meltavets*cough*Outflank them*cough*Gunships are awesome*cough*.
Other options include, but are not limited to;
Manticore Rockets, Medusas (Bastion-Breachers are slightly unfair), Devil Dogs and Leman Russ Demolishers and/or Battle Tanks with Melta sponsons because Lumbering Behemoth is the best.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
*cough*Meltavets*cough*Outflank them*cough*Gunships are awesome*cough*.
Other options include, but are not limited to;
Manticore Rockets, Medusas (Bastion-Breachers are slightly unfair), Devil Dogs and Leman Russ Demolishers.
I had two Chimeras of meltavets and a Demolisher. Sadly, my Demolisher decided to get blown sky high by a single krak missile from a scout (who was barely in the side arc) and the meltavets were slow on reserve and got de-meched when they showed, so it didn't work out too well. No room for the Manticore in the list that week; it was a team game that I believe I've already posted about. Regardless, the LR did eat melta (and DCCW); it just always rolled two or three for penetration. :smallsigh:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
ANYWAY, enough of my kvetching about Land Raiders. Tournament on the 20th. My initial list idea, modified from a list I used in a campaign a couple months ago. The modifications consist of dropping a heavy weapons squad from the platoon and changing to the Basilisk from a Manticore to get 120 points, which I spent on a Devil Dog. Thoughts welcome.
Spoiler
Show
1500 points
Company Command Squad - 200
-Medi-pack, carapace armor
-Three plasma guns
-Chimera dedicated transport
Veteran Squad - 155
-Three meltaguns
-Chimera dedicated transport
Veteran Squad - 155
-Three meltaguns
-Chimera dedicated transport
Infantry Platoon - 200
-Platoon Command Squad
--Lascannon team
-Infantry Squad
--Lascannon team
--Power weapon
-Infantry Squad
--Lascannon team
Hellhound - 130
Devil Dog - 120
Leman Russ Battle Tank - 190
-Heavy bolter sponsons
-Camo netting
Leman Russ Demolisher - 195
-Multimelta sponsons
Basilisk - 155
-Heavy flamer
-Camo netting
I plan to deploy the Basilisk in a corner away from any objectives, to deny the enemy the chance to take out the heavy artillery and grab an objective in one go. The one thing that makes me uncomfortable is a lack of troops to spread around objectives; if I intend to bubble-wrap my artillery, for instance, I have to use meltavets on objectives. I think that between the Demolisher, meltavets, and Devil Dog, I should have any pesky heavy armor potentially taken care of. Had I ten more points I'd think about getting a Bane Wolf instead, but the only ten point thing I could easily cut is the power weapon in the blob, and I'd rather keep it in there.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
I...I love you. Nothing, ever, will be as good as this. Ever. You have won all past and future threads, forever. I am slightly disappointed that you mention BoLS and Kirby, but not YTTH/Stelek - who should at least have a reference in this song considering the rest.
I mentioned BoLS and Kirby because I was posting on BoLS with it originally and Kirby rhymed better. BoLS comments also censor Stelek's name to ****** (seriously) so while he would have worked in context it wasn't an option.
As Arcanoi mentioned "clubbing a baby seal" is common slang amongst WAAC/Tourney players to table a n00b or 'casual player' with an uber-death tourney list - ie not hard, cruel and a jerkface thing to do. Thus, why it's his scandal.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zorg
My thoughts on Rasorspam:
Spoiler
Show
I like small tanks and I cannot lie,
You other brothers can't deny,
That when a girl walks in with an Battlefoam Case,
And a Razor list in your face,
You get sprung!
Wanna pull out? Tough!
'Cause you notice that 'back was stuffed,
Assault meltas and a Priest it’s bearing,
I'm hooked and I can't stop staring.
Oh baby, I wanna play you,
And something so new,
My clubmates tried to warn me,
But that ‘back you got makes m-m-m-me so horny
Ooh, she’s Raz-o'-back-in,
You say you wanna Pitch Deploy?
Well, Annihilate me, Annihilate me,
'Cause you ain't that average groupie.
I've seen them glancin’,
To hell with lancin’,
She's sweat, wet,
Got it goin' like a Melta 'Vet.
I'm tired of magazines,
Sayin' fluff-bunnies are the thing,
Take the average blog man and ask him that -
She gotta pack Razorbacks!
So, fellas! (Yeah!) Fellas! (Yeah!)
Has your girlfriend got the ‘back? (Hell yeah!)
Tell 'em to spam it! (Spam it!) Spam it! (Spam it!)
Spam that MSU ‘back!
Baby got ‘backs!
(Demon paint on an ‘ard Boyz booty)
Baby got ‘backs!
I like 'em small, and on wheels,
And when I'm clubbing a seal,
I just can't help myself, I'm actin' like an animal
Now here's my scandal:
I wanna get you home
And ugh, double-up, ugh, ugh
I ain't talkin' bout Comp Score,
'Cause playin’ nice is such a bore,
I want lists tuned, tricked-out and nasty,
So bring that Leaf Blower,
Mix-a-Lot'll knock it over,
Gunnin’ for a place at that top table.
So I'm lookin' at bat-rep videos
Fluff-bunny carebares playin’ like schmoes,
You can have them newbies,
I'll keep my opponents like Kirby,
A word to the WAAC soul players, I wanna get with ya
I won't cuss or hit ya,
But I gotta be straight when I say I wanna *win* -
It’s the way I was born.
‘backs got it goin' on,
A lot of wimps won't like this song,
'Cause them punks like to hit it and quit it,
And I'd rather stay and play,
'Cause I'm long, and I'm strong,
And I'm down to get the RazorSpam on!
So, ladies! {Yeah!} Ladies! {Yeah}
If you wanna roll in my Mercedes? {Yeah!}
Then turn around! Stick it out!
Even Jervis has to shout
Baby got ‘backs!
Baby got ‘backs!
Yeah, baby ... when it comes to army lists, White Dwarf ain't got nothin',
to do with my selection. Vanilla Captain? Ha ha, only if he’s on a bike.
So your girlfriend rolls a Rhino, lovin’ to not move and fire from,
But Rhinos sitting still are just time bombs,
My army list don't want none,
Unless you've got guns, hun,
You can do Storm Ravens or Dreadnoughts,
But please don't lose that ‘back.
Some brothers wanna play that "comp" role,
And tell you that the ‘back ain't gold,
So they toss it and leave it,
And I pull up quick to retrieve it.
So BoLS says Sisters 're back,
Well I ain't down with that!
'Cause the ‘dex is small and Faith is stinkin’
But I'm still thinkin' bout switchin’,
To the metal dames in that magazine:
You ain't it, Miss Thing!
Give me plastic, I can't resist it,
Lead and FineCast just miss it!
Some knucklehead tried to dis,
'Cause melta-spam girls are on my list,
He had game but he chose to nerf 'em,
And I roll up quick and table 'im.
So ladies, if the ‘back is around,
And you want a hardcore throw down,
Dial 1-900-MIXALOT
And bring them nasty thoughts
Baby got 'BACKS!
At start i finded it funny, now i am a little scared. Also sing that one and put it on youtube.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tychris1
My thoughts exactly incomp. Why are you beating up a seal? Of all things a seal? That's just cruel and jerkish.
Also what's so good about Razorbacks?
Gunz! And higher armor i think.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
The good thing about razorbacks is cheap access to good weaponry in an armored platform.
With GK, you get str 6 heavy bolters for what, less than 120 points?
Lascannon+Plasmagun razorbacks pack pretty considerable firepower while being cheap.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
that....that was
absolutely BEE-YOO-TEE-FUL zorg
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zorg
I mentioned BoLS and Kirby because I was posting on BoLS with it originally and Kirby rhymed better. BoLS comments also censor Stelek's name to ****** (seriously) so while he would have worked in context it wasn't an option.
Wow. People hate Stelek. Who knew? :smallamused:
Still, something about 'Yes, The Truth Hurts' wouldn'tve been censored, right?
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Incidentally, before I glue a hull weapon to my Basilisk, is a heavy bolter or heavy flamer generally better for artillery? If infantry gets close enough that I can't shoot the cannon at it then I probably want a flamer, but if I suffer a weapon destroyed I'd rather not have to mad-dash all the way across the board just to be able to shoot anything. Thoughts?
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Renegade Paladin
Incidentally, before I glue a hull weapon to my Basilisk, is a heavy bolter or heavy flamer generally better for artillery? If infantry gets close enough that I can't shoot the cannon at it then I probably want a flamer, but if I suffer a weapon destroyed I'd rather not have to mad-dash all the way across the board just to be able to shoot anything. Thoughts?
Heavy bolter. You shouldnt be around enemy infantry and your infantry should be protecting your basilisk from deepstriking/outflanking units. If you get a weapon destroyed and have a flamer then you risk losing your entire unit by driving it up to the enemy. In kill points that is not something you want.
Does taking tactical marines instead of assault marines reduce the power of razorspam with blood angels?
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricky S
Does taking tactical marines instead of assault marines reduce the power of razorspam with blood angels?
yes, a razor back can't carry ten models, meaning that you can't have a tactical squad carrying more then bolters. furthermore, assault marines cost the same amount and are deadly in an assault. the razorback will cost an additional 35pt if you run with the tactical squad.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
55 points for a tank with heavy weaponry. That means for every 3 Razor backs a BA player takes I can take 1 Unupgraded Carnifex, fantastic! 4/5 razorbacks I can get a Trygon/Prime. Holy crap does that sound awful.
My disposition towards the phrase "Clubbing a seal" remains the same considering that's exactly what happened to me after I first got my army and went up againt the store owners Dark Eldar Army.
But you know what? I feel like doing exactly that, so I need the forum to help me collaborate a lean mean Tyranid machine at 1500 points for a 3 round tournament.
This is what I have at my disposal
Spoiler
Show
2 Zoanthropes (Can also proxy to Doom)
15 Hormagaunts
17 Termagaunts
10 Gargoyles
8 Genestealers
A broodlord
A Hive Tyrant
2 Carnifex
A Trygon (Can proxy)
3 Warriors
So, grab your clubs, cause I want to squash some seal head.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricky S
Does taking tactical marines instead of assault marines reduce the power of razorspam with blood angels?
Yes.
Tactical Squad (x5) - 180 Points
+ Razorback: Lascannon and Twin-Linked Plasmaguns
Assault Squad (x5) - 155 Points
+ Razorback: Lascannon and Twin-Linked Plasmaguns
25 Points less to do it with Assault Squads. Bonus because Assault Squads can take special weapons in squads of five, whereas Tactical Marines can't. So you can an extra Melta or Flamer to cover the points. Other wargear is mostly the same so we wont count those. Then you've got Priests and Unleash Rage, which greatly benefit Assault Marines. Sure, Priests and UR benefit Tactical Marines, but not as much.
Now, if you want Tactical Marines for Razorspam, it depends how many points you want to play. Once you've got past six squads and still have points to spare it gets tricky. Basically 'depends on what you want to do'. Space Wolves and Codex Marines have more 'support', for lack of a better word for Tactical Marines in Razorbacks.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
Yes.
Tactical Squad (x5) - 180 Points
+ Razorback: Lascannon and Twin-Linked Plasmaguns
Assault Squad (x5) - 155 Points
+ Razorback: Lascannon and Twin-Linked Plasmaguns
25 Points less to do it with Assault Squads. Bonus because Assault Squads can take special weapons in squads of five, whereas Tactical Marines can't. So you can an extra Melta or Flamer to cover the points. Other wargear is mostly the same so we wont count those. Then you've got Priests and Unleash Rage, which greatly benefit Assault Marines. Sure, Priests and UR benefit Tactical Marines, but not as much.
Now, if you want Tactical Marines for Razorspam, it depends how many points you want to play. Once you've got past six squads and still have points to spare it gets tricky. Basically 'depends on what you want to do'. Space Wolves and Codex Marines have more 'support', for lack of a better word for Tactical Marines in Razorbacks.
I would only be playing up to 1500pts as I am not in a club so I never get the chance to play more than that anyway. Basically I am just going for marines in razorbacks and baal predators. If I ever did make this army larger than the 6 tacticals I would just add more predators to the list and another captain with honour guard.
It is completely mechanized which is opposite to my current all infantry space marine army. Sure I could do the same thing with codex marines but I like what the blood angels codex offers. Fast tanks, sanguinary priests and baal predators which have been my favourite 40k tank since 2002.
I am making up the "Vorpal Swords" chapter so I figured assault marines would suit that better but now I am just going to give all of my tactical marine sergeants a powersword (vorpal sword :smalltongue:).
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricky S
I am making up the "Vorpal Swords" chapter so I figured assault marines would suit that better but now I am just going to give all of my tactical marine sergeants a powersword (vorpal sword :smalltongue:).
But...Assault Marines do suit you better. What? :smallconfused:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tychris1
But you know what? I feel like doing exactly that, so I need the forum to help me collaborate a lean mean Tyranid machine at 1500 points for a 3 round tournament.
The Tyranid codex has a serious problem. That is to say, once you factor the errata, the codex is almost completely and totally balanced. It is very difficult to make a Tyranid list capable of the sort of binary list slaughtering that Razorspam perpetrates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tychris1
This is what I have at my disposal
Spoiler
Show
2 Zoanthropes (Can also proxy to Doom)
15 Hormagaunts
17 Termagaunts
10 Gargoyles
8 Genestealers
A broodlord
A Hive Tyrant
2 Carnifex
A Trygon (Can proxy)
3 Warriors
And that's unfortunate. Redundancy is the name of the game for Tyranids, as with just about every other 'dex.
But I'll see what I can do.
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HQ
The Swarmlord - 280pts
Elites
Zoanthrope Brood x2 - 160 pts
- Mycetic Spore
Ymgarl Genestealer Brood x9 - 207 pts
Troops
Warriors x3 - 115 pts
- Barbed Strangler
- Deathspitter x2
Termagaunt Brood x17 - 85 pts
Hormagant Brood x15 - 90 pts
Fast Attack
Gargoyle Brood x10 - 60 pts
Heavy Support
Trygon - 265pts
- Prime
- Regeneration
Old One Eye - 260 pts
Total - 1502 pts
I'll be honest. This list is bad. You barely have enough models to make a 1500 point list, disregarding the copious amount of upgrades Tyranids can take. I'd recommend you pick up a Battleforce to flesh out the middle of your list, and probably some more Zoanthropes and Hive Guard as well.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricky S
Heavy bolter. You shouldnt be around enemy infantry and your infantry should be protecting your basilisk from deepstriking/outflanking units. If you get a weapon destroyed and have a flamer then you risk losing your entire unit by driving it up to the enemy. In kill points that is not something you want.
Ah. A pity, then, that the Basilisk kit does not come with a heavy bolter. I'll just dig one up from one of the Chimeras that I put a flamer on. Thanks.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tychris1
55 points for a tank with heavy weaponry. That means for every 3 Razor backs a BA player takes I can take 1 Unupgraded Carnifex, fantastic! 4/5 razorbacks I can get a Trygon/Prime. Holy crap does that sound awful.
Why would you want Carnifexes? Hive guard are 50 points a piece. And Zoanz are 60.
Quote:
But you know what? I feel like doing exactly that, so I need the forum to help me collaborate a lean mean Tyranid machine at 1500 points for a 3 round tournament.
This is what I have at my disposal
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2 Zoanthropes (Can also proxy to Doom)
15 Hormagaunts
17 Termagaunts
10 Gargoyles
8 Genestealers
A broodlord
A Hive Tyrant
2 Carnifex
A Trygon (Can proxy)
3 Warriors
So, grab your clubs, cause I want to squash some seal head.
You need bigger squads. And 2 carnifex? And Carnifex ain´t even that good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arcanoi
The Tyranid codex has a serious problem. That is to say, once you factor the errata, the codex is almost completely and totally
balanced. It is very difficult to make a Tyranid list capable of the sort of binary list slaughtering that Razorspam perpetrates.
And that's unfortunate. Redundancy is the name of the game for Tyranids, as with just about every other 'dex.
But I'll see what I can do.
Spoiler
Show
HQ
The Swarmlord - 280pts
Elites
Zoanthrope Brood x2 - 160 pts
- Mycetic Spore
Ymgarl Genestealer Brood x9 - 207 pts
Troops
Warriors x3 - 115 pts
- Barbed Strangler
- Deathspitter x2
Termagaunt Brood x17 - 85 pts
Hormagant Brood x15 - 90 pts
Fast Attack
Gargoyle Brood x10 - 60 pts
Heavy Support
Trygon - 265pts
- Prime
- Regeneration
Old One Eye - 260 pts
Total - 1502 pts
I'll be honest. This list is bad. You barely have enough models to make a 1500 point list, disregarding the copious amount of upgrades Tyranids can take. I'd recommend you pick up a Battleforce to flesh out the middle of your list, and probably some more Zoanthropes and Hive Guard as well.
Biggest problem is propperbly lone swarmlord. But i think fexes would be better than old one eye.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
Wow. People hate Stelek. Who knew? :smallamused:
Still, something about 'Yes, The Truth Hurts' wouldn'tve been censored, right?
No, but it's pretty wordy and doesn't quite fit (which is a shame). Some of the Fly Lords hate Stelek so much they made jokes about his wife having a miscarriage - not joking she should, joking she did. Yeach :smallyuk:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Hey everyone. Last weekend's Trios Tournament was a near failure (My team got the "Smokin' Boots Award" for most traitorous dice, so our last place finish won us a new set of d6's), and this weekend is 'Ard Boyz. Unfortunately, I'm not actually very confident in my own list (I have to rebuild it, because special characters are not allowed to be counts-as'd if the real character model exists, and I don't own a Dante).
I did build another list, though, that I have a little more confidence in. Specifically, it is a Vulkan/Sisters of Battle list for Mattarias that may actually have a chance of taking a Semi-Spot from my FLGS, which is pretty cool. I'm currently attempting to make sure we both have all of the models we need (since I'm lending him the Marine half of the list), and I was hoping I could get some critiques before I finish building/converting/counting everything.
VULKAN / SISTERS OF BATTLE, 2500 POINTS, 'ARD BOYZ.
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HQ
Vulkan He'stan, 190pts
+In the LRC
Canoness, 146pts
-Blessed Weapon, Inferno Pistol, Cloak of St Aspira, Mantle of Ophelia, Frags, Jump Pack
ELITES
Ironclad Dreadnought, 185pts
-2 Heavy Flamers
+Drop Pod
Assault Terminators 5, 460pts
-Thunderhammer & Storm Shield
+Land Raider Crusader (Multimelta)
Inquisitor, 72pts
-Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Frags, Psychic Hood
-Powers: Hammer of the Witches
+Either in the LRC or with one Dev Squad, not sure.
TROOPS
Tactical 10, 240pts
-Melta, Multimelta
-Sergeant: Thunderhammer
+Rhino
Tactical 10, 240pts
-Melta, Multimelta
-Sergeant: Thunderhammer
+Rhino
Sisters 10, 221pts
-Flamer, Heavy Flamer
-Veteran: Power Weapon, Brazier of Holy Fire, Frag Grenades, Book of St Lucius
+WH Rhino (Smoke Launchers)
Sisters 10, 221pts
-Flamer, Heavy Flamer
-Veteran: Power Weapon, Brazier of Holy Fire, Frag Grenades, Book of St Lucius
+WH Rhino (Smoke Launcher)
FAST ATTACK
Dominions 6, 215pts
-4 Flamers, Imagifer (Simulacrum Imperialis)
-Veteran: Combi-flamer, Frag Grenades
+Immolator (Smoke Launchers)
HEAVY SUPPORT
Devastators 5, 155pts
-2 Multimeltas
+Rhino
Devastators 5, 155pts
-2 Multimeltas
+Rhino
The models/units are not locked in, but I DO have to limit things to what we actually own, so unfortunately I may have to veto some suggestions. However, I do welcome all comments and critique. I'll probably post my own list some time later after I figure out where I put it, to see what people think. Until then, let me know how you feel about Vulkan's ladies, hm?
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Hey guys! Well, I'm more than brand new to warhammer 40k (as I haven't even bought my first set yet) but I'm thinking about picking up assault on black reach. Is that a good one? Is it worth it?
Also, do all these models have to be the same color? Do space marines HAVE to be blue? I hate blue.
Also, could I use the space marine models for an Angel of Death army or Space Wolves, etc? Or are they strictly SM? So many things about Warha
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Otherworld Odd
Hey guys! Well, I'm more than brand new to warhammer 40k (as I haven't even bought my first set yet) but I'm thinking about picking up assault on black reach. Is that a good one? Is it worth it?
It's the starter set. Good for Orks, OK for regular Space Marines. Has the rules, but not the other stuff that's in the main rulebook. (Background information, for example).
Quote:
Also, do all these models have to be the same color? Do space marines HAVE to be blue? I hate blue.
No.
Quote:
Also, could I use the space marine models for an Angel of Death army or Space Wolves, etc? Or are they strictly SM?
The tactical marines have their squad markings sculpted on. "Non-codex" space marine chapters (Space Wolves, Blood Angels etc.) use different squad markings. You could use them as non-codex marines with bolters, but it would look a little strange. The Terminators and Dreadnought are fine for any chapter (though they lack the unique design details of, say, the Space Wolves).
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ogremindes
It's the starter set. Good for Orks, OK for regular Space Marines. Has the rules, but not the other stuff that's in the main rulebook. (Background information, for example).
No.
The tactical marines have their squad markings sculpted on. "Non-codex" space marine chapters (Space Wolves, Blood Angels etc.) use different squad markings. You could use them as non-codex marines with bolters, but it would look a little strange. The Terminators and Dreadnought are fine for any chapter (though they lack the unique design details of, say, the Space Wolves).
So which squad markings are sculpted on the marines that come with black reach?
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Otherworld Odd
So which squad markings are sculpted on the marines that come with black reach?
A large arrow on the right shoulder pad of the tactical squad marines. That's the standard Codex tactical marine marking.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Oh, gotchya. So in order to change these Space Marines to something else, I would have to purchase something like this?:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/ca...tCatGameStyle=
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Otherworld Odd
Not for black reach, the shoulder pads aren't separate.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Oh. I am sorely confused. =/.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Black Reach is a starter set, which means it should be something that you use to mess around with, not your real army. A battleforce is what you would use as a starter for your real army.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Otherworld Odd
Unfortunately, that set would do you no good, because the Assault on Black Reach Marines do not lend themselves to conversion; they're just snap-together bolter marines, and it would be difficult to impossible to get them to be anything but exactly what they are. (Essentially, plastic bricks.)
Luckily, this can be countered by telling you one thing: if you want to play Space Marines, do not buy the AoBR set. The army you get is not legal (so you can't just play properly out of the box), and the units are not equipped in the way most people would probably field them (the Captain especially is kind of terrible without a good bit of conversion or counts-as). Instead, I would suggest you do more research, figure out exactly which type of space marines you'd like to play (since each chapter has different rules), and then either buy that army's Battleforce box, or go buy stuff off of Ebay and similar sites.
This is, of course, just my opinion. (Except for the part about AoBR being a poor choice, that is an unfortunately provable statement. As a Space Marine player myself, I feel the pain of others who have fallen into its trap.)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Most plastic space marines have separate heads, arms, legs, backpacks, front and back torsos and shoulder pads. 9 pieces if the weapons aren't separate and you don't add any accessories. The black reach ones are something like 3 pieces, designed to be easy to assemble with a minimum of equipment (just need clippers. They don't even need to be glued).
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
oh wow. Thanks for diverting me from that trap. I was under the impression that it was an amazing deal, especially when planning on halfing it with someone who wanted orks. I'll definitely look at other armies and battleforces. I was just planning on Space Marines because I figured 50 bucks for an army split with someone who wanted orks was a good deal.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
So, yesterday I was sad. I walked into the store after getting off work on pay day. I may have mentioned a few times that GW is between home and work and it's easy to stop there in the afternoon.
I walked into the store - on my pay day, mind - looked around, and didn't want anything. Are any of my current army projects finished? Hell no. But I just didn't want any of the models on the shelves. I mean, some of the Storm of Magic stuff looks fantastic, but, 40K on the other hand?
It's not the price that prevents me from buying stuff. Seriously, I'm me with my job. Price isn't usually an issue. It's the lack of goodness in the models. I don't know about anyone else, but 'round my parts nobody got into Grey Knights, partly because everyone was only in the middle of making their Blood Angels, and partly because no-one wanted the models, and, well, partly because a kit of five models cost as much as other armies' kits with ten. That's why I haven't done a write-up of Grey Knights. I, personally don't want them and no-one around me gives me any games of which I can use to gauge their effectiveness. I mean, reading the Codex is fine, but it doesn't show you how it works in game (Necron Pariahs are an obvious example).
And then there's the Power Armour Ennui. I want to finish my projects. But, I just don't want to do it now. Maybe it's time to play Fantasy for reals. Or play Imperial Guard or Dark Eldar.
Then there's the other stuff on GW policies that almost seem designed to push me and other veterans out of the hobby, but I'm not going to get into that since it isn't important on a forum like this one. This and the above is all I feel I need to say. If I wanted to say more I'd make a blog. The models coming out, I feel are lackluster and I really don't care about them.
Once more, I'd like to re-iterate that there are no new models for Sisters. The White Dwarf is a stop-gap to shut people up. Nothing more. 'FULL RANGE IN THE ONLINE STORE' means 'the old range we've had for years please pay attention to us again'. Sisters aren't bad. But, this 'White Dwarf Codex' is not designed to get people to start playing Sisters. Its designed for the people who already play Sisters, so that they continue to play Sisters and stop bothering GW Staff.
Seriously, why did they take away the 10-woman box?
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Otherworld Odd
oh wow. Thanks for diverting me from that trap. I was under the impression that it was an amazing deal, especially when planning on halfing it with someone who wanted orks. I'll definitely look at other armies and battleforces. I was just planning on Space Marines because I figured 50 bucks for an army split with someone who wanted orks was a good deal.
If the two of you can each cough up an extra $50 for a second kit, AoBR is still decent. You've got a thousand-point legal army, and two copies of the core rulebook, which people seem to forget is a 50-dollar value right there. (And there's one for each of you!) If you're looking to do some conversion work, just take a nail file to the arrows on the shoulderpads, buy an accessories frame from the GW store and some plastic glue, and get to work.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cheesegear
Seriously, why did they take away the 10-woman box?
:smallmad: To make us mad. The new codex really doesn't look too good so far. I mean, can't judge it when it's only half out, but.. They really, really kicked Faith to the ground. :smallannoyed:
..But anyways, yeah, 'Ard Boyz comin' up. :smallamused: Time to roll dice and chew bubblegum. And I... Have both, actually. :smallconfused:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
What faith powers have they revealed as of yet?
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
There's a tournament that the store where i live is preparing to undergo in which you roll to see if you switch armies at the start of the scenario.
I REALLY need to learn to paint faster...
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tychris1
What faith powers have they revealed as of yet?
Cannoness gives +1 inish and preferred enemy in the assault phase.
Command squads get Relentless and Move Through Cover in the movement phase.
Battle Sisters get basically ATSKNF in the movement phase, or, in shooting/assault, reroll 1s (To-hit). Can use both, but spend a faith point for each.
Celestians get +1 strength and fearless in assault.
Dominions get twin-linked weapons while shooting.
Seraphim reroll failed to-wounds while shooting.
Retributors can make their guns rending.
That's it, I believe. Remember that you only have 1d6 faith ATTEMPTS each turn.
The stuff they get IS nice, but each unit can only use one type of thing. :smallannoyed: It's... Ehhh...
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Well, it seems pretty good really, atleast to my perspective but I've only fought sisters once and it was annoying as heck considering 1 cannoness and her partner held my Trygon prime in combat for 3 turns thanks to a faith power that gave them invulnerable saves and they managed to make them for every 6 attacks I made.
Plus they seem kind of like combat field upgrades such as "oh, I can't penetrate that tank.... RENDING GUNS! Pew pew what's that 2+ armor save? I can't hear you over the sound of metal being torn asunder" making it more situational and gives them a bit more adaptability. Although some of those powers should be for the general populace such as +1 strength and fearless and maybe the reroll ones thing.
But I've never really met the sisters of battle enough to know if they desperately need Faith in order to do anything.
Edit: Also, what's ATSKNF (Forgot how it's spelled but that thing with the sisters)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tychris1
Edit: Also, what's ATSKNF (Forgot how it's spelled but that thing with the sisters)
And they shall know no fear.
The space marine leadership rule.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Pfff, that's nothing. My Cannoness took every single ranged attack from both Deldar AND Tau before falling. I kid you not. They threw every single gun they had at her. Came down to them crying over last handful of dice before she fell. 2+ Invul saves are DELICIOUS.
Amusingly, she died RIGHT as "Through the Fire and the Flames" ended. I believe these events are related. :smallamused:
Anyways, yeah, the abilities are NICE, don't get me wrong, but you're giving up the potential to give your whole army 3+ invul saves, or AP1 weapons, or +2 inish, or whatever when it counts.
Sisters, at least as they are now, are reliant on Faith as pretty much their only way to turn the tides against these newer codices. Without it, well... Why aren't you playing Salamanders?
Oh, and sorry, it stands for "And They Shall Know No Fear", as iyaerP said.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
A friend of mine asked whether this is a normal sized Warhammer 40K figurine.
Now, I'm pretty sure that it's not 40K but I have no idea what the normal size is for such a figure. You guys do. Share the knowledge :smallwink:
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Perhaps games workshop is thinking about buffing the Sisters and making Faith more of a utility instead of an "OMG AP 1 WEAPONS! SCREW YOU MONSTROUS CREATURES!" Again, I'm not the most certain point of view for sisters, considered I'm slightly only slightly biased considering a single squad of Sisters one shotted my Carnifex with AP 1 weapons. Faith seems to be, unpredictable, and very hard to counter or prepare for. Are those the only Faith powers available in 4e
Also, sisters of battle are getting an audio diary/book in the next few weeks (I can't remember but it might be between 3-5 weeks). So there's that.
Edit: Yes Rak, that is average size despite the fact that the model you linked is outdated a decade or so (Also it's in another language that I don't understand).
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
To be fair, it 'only' makes wound rolls of 6 into AP1/power wounds, but yeah, I can see where you're coming from.
They're a 3e codex, actually, and yes, but the ones I mentioned are the only ones that really matter. :smallsigh:
Audiobook sounds interesting. I'll keep an eye (ear?)out for that. :smallsmile:
And now, at 3:00 AM... I go unconscious.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
Thanks, is it 40K ?
Doesn't look like any model I've seen in the 40K range.
Mind you I haven't played in 13 years so ...yeah.
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XIII: "Ironclads, Furiosos and Soul Grinders, oh my!"
It is 40K, it is for the Imperial Guard first edition, and is again outdated so you shouldn't be using it anyway.
Edit: I can't remember but can Sisters rapid fire? Because if they do that 6 wound thing becomes a huge thing.