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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Mostly, I was thinking of the 'Boot on Face, Forever' scenario at the end of RotSE. So yeah, only the Ebon Dragon is free.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Draken
Mostly, I was thinking of the 'Boot on Face, Forever' scenario at the end of RotSE. So yeah, only the Ebon Dragon is free.
Suddenly, all the non-Yozi factions realize the power in hate-based weaponry and arm themselves with an obscene amount of hellwands? :smalltongue:
I mean, the Ebon Dragon achieving a solo victory is one of the few endings wherein everyone will actually work together. Playing on the Ebon Dragon's side means that you now have to contend with whoever's still alive for the foreseeable future (and remember GSPs die young unless they keep their Essence up) and you'll be stuck dealing with raksha incursions for all eternity.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tonberrian
Every time you mention mortal akuma, the Unconquered Sun kills a member of Errata Team Prime. This is why we don't have Sidereal errata yet.
I have never found akuma to ruin game balance, though I have never given them perfect effects and have also limited them to 1/3 of their essence without spending willpower.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Draken
Mostly, I was thinking of the 'Boot on Face, Forever' scenario at the end of RotSE. So yeah, only the Ebon Dragon is free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gensh
Suddenly, all the non-Yozi factions realize the power in hate-based weaponry and arm themselves with an obscene amount of hellwands? :smalltongue:
I mean, the Ebon Dragon achieving a solo victory is one of the few endings wherein everyone will actually work together. Playing on the Ebon Dragon's side means that you now have to contend with whoever's still alive for the foreseeable future (and remember GSPs die young unless they keep their Essence up) and you'll be stuck dealing with raksha incursions for all eternity.
Pretty much. The ebon dragon simply lacks what it takes to take on celestial exalts, as well. Solars with Phoenix Renewal Tactic (and any crane style practitioner) have dirt cheap perfect attacks and defenses against the jerk so long as they stunt (free for the crane style guys). Deathknights may have to dip into their mote pools, but they are still solar tier and still spank him. Lunars can use green sun child to gank him while masquerading as part of his soul hierarchy. Sidereals (however many are left) can easily track his movements and probably count among their number some of those crane style practitioners. Alchemicals can mass produce 1st age weapons for everyone and have their own spirit killing charms, and can afford to produce as many jade castes as they have souls for when bankrolled by creation. Even terrestrials can threaten him: High essence terrestrials do exist in larger numbers than any other exalt type, and they can knock him out with As In the Beginning in one hit (or cooperative elemental bolts in large numbers). Which, might I remind, can be made into a perfect effect with a surcharge of one willpower for a virtue channel, even with a virtue of 1.
Honestly, the ebon dragon's best hope is that the Green Sun Princes loyal to other yozis find him first. They're the only ones who don't have charms which can perma-kill him, so they'll have to be content with repeatedly beating him bloody and maybe murdering his 3rd circles for good measure.
Ebbie's best bet is to run off some copies of whoever gets to him and flee before the duplicates get wiped out. But that only works if the attackers don't have shaping defenses (spoiler: they mostly do). And even so, being constantly on the run while... I'll be generous and say that the entire realm is mostly loyal to him and the blushing bride, so some 21,000 pissed off exalts are looking for you with a unifying goal of feeding you your own entrails is not conducive to being a ruler. Because if there's one thing that all reasonable people can agree on, it's that Step 1 of any good plan is to kill the ebon dragon.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Hmmm... Working on a character and was wondering- What backgrounds would you have for a solar who has a network of spies, thieves, etc throughout the Scavengerlands.
I have henchmen 3 and spy network 4, but was wondering if I needed anything like influence or contacts.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
So, after the holiday break finishes out, my gaming group is most likely to resume our Exalted game at a different pace - instead of every Saturday, we'll be playing every other Saturday.
In the interest of preventing perceived stagnation, would it be a good idea, perhaps, to increase the XP-per-session slightly? I figure playing characters that advance a little too slowly might start to feel boring, so perhaps upping the base XP for a session will counteract that.
Either way, though, it won't be by a huge amount; I'd increase it from 4-a-session to 5 or 6.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Turalisj
Hmmm... Working on a character and was wondering- What backgrounds would you have for a solar who has a network of spies, thieves, etc throughout the Scavengerlands.
I have henchmen 3 and spy network 4, but was wondering if I needed anything like influence or contacts.
For a network, I'd go with Followers rather than Henchmen. Henchmen simply doesn't give enough to represent it, and followers puts you in charge in a way that Backing and Influence doesn't. You can either go Spies or (if your ST won't allow cross-splat background pollination) Contacts for their information gathering capability. I think that's pretty much it.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheCountAlucard
So, after the holiday break finishes out, my gaming group is most likely to resume our Exalted game at a different pace - instead of every Saturday, we'll be playing every other Saturday.
In the interest of preventing perceived stagnation, would it be a good idea, perhaps, to increase the XP-per-session slightly? I figure playing characters that advance a little too slowly might start to feel boring, so perhaps upping the base XP for a session will counteract that.
Either way, though, it won't be by a huge amount; I'd increase it from 4-a-session to 5 or 6.
It certaintly wouldn't be a bad idea. Weather it's necessary depends on your players, but it shouldn't cause any problems if you do.
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Re: Bunnies
Reaping the Darwinian Whirlwind
Cost: 20m, 2wp; Mins: Essence 5; Type: Simple
Keywords: Heretical, Combo-OK, Sorcerous, Shaping, Blasphemy
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Broken Soul Wisdom, Life-Invigorating Development
Adorjan is the greatest of teachers. Her lessons show mankind the way to progress beyond their rudimentary understandings of life and thought. Gaia, too, is a wellspring of evolution for all those living things that roam her body. Her touch grants the northern migrating animals thick coats to survive the tundra, and the deep-swimming fish bioluminescence to see by.
Funneling together these two powers, the Infernal's message is simple: Evolve or Die.
With hands outstretched, wicked winds burst forth from the Warlock with astounding speed, reaching upward into the sky higher than any can see, blighting even the clouds themselves. Inside of a minute, the winds will scour outward to a radius of (Essence) miles. A sufficiently powerful counterspell aimed at the Infernal before this time elapses will stop the wind from causing further harm, but anything it has already inflicted remains.
Those caught in the whirlwind are given a choice. They may either take the sum of (number of their intimacies + number of their mutations + number of their virtues rated 3 or higher + 3) levels of lethal damage, or they may evolve. (In this instance, consider "mutations" that represent natural facets of an animal, such as "Wings" on a bird, as actual mutations for calculating damage.) This damage ignores all non-magical soak and hardness.
By choosing to evolve, a creature may reduce the damage dealt to it by the whirlwind. For every intimacy they choose to change the subject of or emotion attached to, reduce the damage by 1 level (changing both on the same intimacy still only reduces the damage by 1 level). For every mutation they choose to convert into a different mutation of the same cost, reduce the damage by 1 level. For every virtue rating they choose to swap with a different virtue, and that actually alters the rating, reduce the damage by 1 level. If they choose to change their physical sex, reduce the damage by 1 level. If they choose to appear as a different race within the same species, reduce the damage by 1 level. For every mental derangement mutation they choose to take upon themselves (positive mutations function as a Training effect), reduce the damage by 1 level. For every point of temporary Willpower they choose to spend, reduce the damage by 1 level.
A creature caught in the whirlwind is immune to further uses of this charm for a year and a day.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
So I found out why Lunars are bad the way they are:
they were put in. after all the important events were planned out. as in, Primordial War? First Age? Usurpation? all that? planned out before the Lunars were even put in to the splats. the Lunars were added in after. meaning, no consideration of their impact on the setting or the Usurpation or anything. they were just tacked on. they weren't integrated into the setting, they were just clumsily added on after all the important stuff like the entire history of the world. just, no consideration on how their presence impacts the setting at all or changes anything.
its why they haven't done anything important: they honestly planned it all out with only the Solars, Sidereals and Dragon-Blooded when doing the important plot thing then…..I don't for some reason added in Lunars. sure they did the same thing with Alchemicals and Infernals, but Infernals only work because they are new, Alchemicals only work because they inhabit an entirely different world that has had no effect on the setting at all.
therefore: how does one fix a tacked-on splat? either integrate them into the setting and actually make them affect events in Creation, or create an entirely new world in the Wyld for them to create and inhabit instead filled with thousands of mortal refugees fleeing from the Usurpation.
Hmmm….I think I got an idea…..:smallamused: namely the latter option…
Flight of the Lunars
When the Usurpation came an the Lunars fled, they did not flee alone.
They rounded up all the mortals still loyal to the Solars and the Lunars, while taking any refugees that wished to join them in the chaos that followed the downfall of the Solars.
They traveled towards the Wyld, stealing all the remaining Reality Engines across Creation and took the lost, the fleeing, the unfortunate, the homeless, the survivors, anyone and everyone who was desperate or did not want to live under Dragon-Blooded rule for killing the Solars, the Lunars took under their protection and leadership.
So the Lunars and their followers fled into the Wyld, the warping nature of the Wyld no match for the power of the Lunar's Exaltations as the Lunars fought off the Fair Folk that tried to take advantage of the mortals under the Lunars care.
The Lunars then began to set up pockets of stability in the Wyld, towns and lands from a combination their Reality Engines and stolen pieces of Fair Folk magic to keep their lands outside of Creation safe.
Soon these pockets became kingdoms under the Lunars protection, the Usurpation soon became known in these kingdoms as the Great Exodus.
These Kingdoms soon called themselves the Kingdoms of the Moon, dedicated to preserving the legend of how the Star-Usurpers and the Blood-Usurpers destroyed the Age of the Sun that could have been even greater if the Lunars had more time for their guidance to push the Solar Exalted from the ways of arrogance and pride.
But they look towards the future. They and the Lunar Exalted prepare for the Day of Vengeance when they will take back Creation. Sure, they will never be able to restore the Age of the Sun, everyone in the Kingdoms of the Moon knows that. But they do know that the world deserves to know the truth, and to live in freedom from the Usurpers fate-gloved grasp.
However, each kingdom has its own ideal of "freedom". Furthermore, each has a different idea of how to treat the Lunar Exalted, and should be done once Creation is retaken. Also, the Reality Engines, while being constantly maintained and and watched, might someday break down, and if they do, the Fair Folk around them will surge upon the Kingdoms of the Moon and devour all that inhabit them. Will the Lunar Exalted be able to rally their Kingdoms and retake Creation? or will their own Reality Engines fail and the Kingdoms fall to the chaos that surrounds them?
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
I still like the explanation that people simply aren't aware of the things lunars have done because lunars did them on the fringes of history. Who knows how many time Balor and his cronies tried to invade before the Great Contagion gave them an opening, or since. Who knows how many Behemoths have been felled, or how many or how powerful societies have been built by their whim? Who knows how many doomsday weapons have been built, or fired, on the fringes of the tapestry where the Loom doesn't record the fates they end?
I tend to play the Silver Pact as a superpower to rival the realm when viewed as a whole, but focused on things away from the center apart from a few crazies like Ma-Ha-Suchi. As an example, I usually like to provide Halta. One of the largest nations in existence, both in terms of size and population (geographically it's half the size of the realm, while as many as 1/20th creation's net population name themselves citizens). Supernatural treaties with a wide variety of beings. A thriving bioengineering industry. Tremendous infrastructural requirements and governmental innovation, some magical in nature. Hints of magitech weapons on reserve. Total lunars required: 2.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lord Raziere
So I found out why Lunars are bad the way they are:[...]the Lunars were added in after. meaning, no consideration of their impact on the setting or the Usurpation or anything. they were just tacked on.
This may, or may not, be the exact truth. It certainly felt that way every time I read their manual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lord Raziere
Flight of the Lunars
This is an interesting base concept. Put it into a document. I would like to read more.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Wow. That would explain everything.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
The idea that they were only dropped into the setting after everything else seems to have some basis... in First Edition.
Some of the most-detailed books about the setting came out before Lunars; hell, we got details on Alchemicals before the Lunar book came out. :smallsigh: This, paired up with the godawful editorial mandates at the time that forced each splat to have ties to the oWoD, meant that the Lunars ended up as half-oWoD-Werewolf, with the other half being a bunch of rushed-and-not-thought-out barbarian stereotypes. The book gave thought to neither the reality of cross-splat games nor the possibility of playing non-barbarian Lunars. :smallannoyed:
Unfortunately, while they could have moved away from this in 2e, part of their editorial mandate was that it couldn't be too different from 1e. :smallfrown:
On an unrelated note, I was quite sorely tempted to pepper this post with links to related TVTropes articles. :smalleek:
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
There are quite a few other issues, as well. For instance, a charm tree crippled because no-one wanted Eclipses to shapeshift. There's quite a few of these arguments on the official forums. At the moment, it looks like Lunars aren't going to be made the justification for most major things in the setting retroactively.
Also, the Editorial mandate...well, it is at fault in some ways, because it honestly wasn't that good. But, First Edition Lunars was a major departure from the 'mandate'.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Fair enough - I'm less-familiar with 1e, and so the majority of that post was made up from a mix of what I've heard from others, what I saw in Holden's list of quotes, and a tad bit of assumption-making.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
The quote actually goes into a bit of detail about the whole thing. Lunars were supposed to be something along the lines of Conan the Barbarian, and other pulp fantasy heroes(this is what the editors wanted). Instead, something...different was provided.
In a way, similar to how the Fair Folk were messed up, though in this case it went from a bad direction to a bad direction, instead of a good to bad. Well, that and the Editors didn't have as much time, or something, and so they weren't able to revise much.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
You mean from Mythological Tuatha de Dannan to creepy LARPers ?
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
...there also seemed to be a...savage...neanderthal-style intent with the Lunars... At the time that I was first introduced to Lunars that was the last thing which I wanted to role-play. Some Players tend to like bone-grinding, meat-chewing, drool-spitting, and bellow-roaring homothoids which often serve as fodder for Dawn Caste Solar Conan The Destroyer. I wanted...something more executive, sophisticated, educated, and cultured...and first edition Lunars were not it. Second Edition Lunars are still not it, but thanks to the various helps of friends I have a better idea now how to accomplish it than simply rotting in oppressive confusion while trying to sort something out myself.
Hm. Too personal...
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
I do not know if a charm like this exists somewhere already, but:
Would charm that creates a city be approriate charm for Malfeas? I mean since he can sproute(sp?) new disctricts/layers at will he would propably have such charm already?
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
By Rage Recast and Devil-Tyrant Avatar Shintai describe (in a level appropriate to the Infernal) Malfeas' ever-changing form. Cities are part of him and he does not make cities that are not part of himself. Plus, a charm that nulified the Imperfection of the Demon City like that would probably not be ideal.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Draken
By Rage Recast and Devil-Tyrant Avatar Shintai describe (in a level appropriate to the Infernal) Malfeas' ever-changing form. Cities are part of him and he does not make cities that are not part of himself. Plus, a charm that nulified the Imperfection of the Demon City like that would probably not be ideal.
While this is likely to be true given the reading for those Charms, my desire to see Infernal vs. Alchemical city on city combat rejects it. Instead, I'd say that Malfeas' Municipal Charms are just like the Alchemical ones - Essence 7+ and not particularly useful to most players and thus unprinted. Compare similarly that the Imperfection of the Endless Desert ceases to actually do anything at E8, so it's not necessarily a bad thing that the Imperfection of the Demon city stops functioning in the E7-8 range. Or at least it makes sense for Malfeas himself but is rather problematic for PCs, so perhaps gaining the Municipal Charms deepens it to the Greater Imperfection. Have the freelancers said anything about E8 Infernals not having an Imperfection, because there's nothing about it in Errata? :smallconfused:
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
I was just planning a dragonblooded Akuma antagonist against party of Dragonblooded (using homebrew system though) and thought that charm that makes stuctures rise from the ground in combat sounded nice.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rikandur Azebol
You mean from Mythological Tuatha de Dannan to creepy LARPers ?
No, from skeevy Eurotrash fae stereotypes to something not borrowing half its terminology from Changeling: the Dreaming.
Also, who's to say Tuatha de Dannan weren't all creepy LARPers?
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
You are mistaken, these are British Fae stereotypes. The most popular ones, but don't lump every folklore stuff from Europe together. :smallwink:
As for TdD its really hard to tell. They seem weird, to say the least. All the evil stuff they did in the stories, seems like "normal" things any human would do given unpunished reign over whatever they please.
And Yes, idea for Raksha flavor seem neat ... but in execution the authors seemed to overdo it. And the pitiful beings from Changeling are, at best, Half-Fae with low Inheritance. I would like, for one, more Cthuloid Raksha to choose from among them. All I read in 2e book seem too close to humanity and human expectations of "non-humans" to be stomach-able in long run.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gensh
While this is likely to be true given the reading for those Charms, my desire to see Infernal vs. Alchemical city on city combat rejects it. Instead, I'd say that Malfeas' Municipal Charms are just like the Alchemical ones - Essence 7+ and not particularly useful to most players and thus unprinted. Compare similarly that the Imperfection of the Endless Desert ceases to actually do anything at E8, so it's not necessarily a bad thing that the Imperfection of the Demon city stops functioning in the E7-8 range. Or at least it makes sense for Malfeas himself but is rather problematic for PCs, so perhaps gaining the Municipal Charms deepens it to the Greater Imperfection. Have the freelancers said anything about E8 Infernals not having an Imperfection, because there's nothing about it in Errata? :smallconfused:
Well, I guess there could be an essence 6 infernal combination of Assumption of the Land's/City's Heart and (Element) Shelter Creation technique to create a cozy hell village for/out of yourself. Or a more specialized CCoP/WST useable anywhere, but only to make buildings.
But turning yourself into a city... Well, that would step a bit on the toes of Malfeas Worldshaper Assumption if it came before essence 10, would it not?
Edit: A Malfean version of Tenebrous Apotheosis Shintai would do the trick. Essence 8 requisite too, spot on. Requisites... Hmm... Ablation of Brass and Fire, By Agony Empowered, Devil-Tyrant Avatar Shintai (or Viridian Legend Exoskeleton/Demon Emperor Shintai to stick with non-IM material), Sun-Salted Fields and all their prerequisites. Same number of prerequisite charms as the Ebon Dragon version (12, goes up to 14 with Demon Emperor Shintai).
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
The Seeds of Eriezar's Garden
Between the years when Creation was founded and the fall of the God-Kings of Nexus, there was an Age undreamed of, when puny warstriders roamed the land and the provinces of the Deliberative reeked of rotten secrets. Vainest of all was the Realm, a corrupted empire reigning from the Blessed Isle.
Hence came Ereizar the Lunar, with silver Exaltation and glorious Tell, a crafter of dreams and slayer of nightmares, discarding the feeble and decadent trappings of Golden Bonds and Games to crush the thrones of the Wyld beneath his creative feet.
None but Ereizar was brave enough to venture into the heart of the green lands of Wood, and thence return with but a single ripe fruit. Laughing at the thought of treasures that might have contained him, Eriezar bit into the fruit and let the rich, fresh juice spatter around. When it was fully consumed, only three seeds remained, and the Eriezar saw that the land where the juice had fallen was now a welcoming, vital land.
With a wary laugh, Ereizar dismissed this clever trap of Chaos, and planted the first Seed. Rough hills and mountains grew, rich with game and the promise of raiding. This land was one where men would grow strong and fierce, reavers and rovers hungering for riches, disdainful of Creation's degenerate race yet enjoying its ripe splendors.
Under the auspices of Luna's Chosen, the tribes grew and spread, claiming new territories, forging themselves in battle with ravening beasts and outwitting what few Guild merchants dared wander near. Still, Ereizar was not content, for inertia and habit were ploys he'd met before, tricks he would not allow in his Garden.
With a wild laugh, Ereizar planed the second Seed among the chieftans, that they might dream of greater futures than a larger hut or thicker pelt. Stories and sorcery wove among the People, that they might overcome any outside threat - be it Dragons, Demons, or Death itself.
A city emerged from the tales, with a strange staircase at its heart, reaching up from the Garden to the heights of Heaven, down into the depths of the Void, and through into the Brass City itself. Ereizar's braves plundered each of these realms in turn, bringing back only the most precious treasures and the lamentations of their victims, which they drank like fine wine. Among their new gained riches were comely godlings, seductive ghosts, and a skillful grand vizier named TED. Following the dictates of the land, the latter was at once set in chains and beaten until morale improved. Scales flew, yet as Ereizar's folk had a morale that was beyond measure, it could not improve.
With a Wyld laugh, Ereizar planed the last Seed and from it a single Raksha was born. As kind as the land was harsh, as loving as the blades of men are cruel, as forgiving as the Sun's hatred. Seeing the plight of TED, the Fair Folk cried, and a tear of perfect compassion fell upon the dark reptile. Set free by this uncomparably compassionate act, the grand vizier slunk back to the Demon City, leaving all the love it had ever known behind, to ward and protect the Garden of Ereizar.
Mechanics
The Garden is simply a Freehold, and can be expanded significantly thanks to Sword shaping, if and as required. Or a new one can be made, of course.
First Seed
4-dot Oneiromancy
Assumption of the Living Kingdom - the Seed affects an absolutely huge area.
Behemoth Forging Meditation - any mortal born where the Seed was planted will benefit from the Large mutation, and quite possibly a few other wholly beneficial ones. The presence of Delusions along the lines of "Ereizar's views on politics and civilization are utterly true" is, of course, nothing more than empty rumor.
Manacles of Virtue - where the Seed holds reign, its chosen folk laugh at danger, as their Valor is significantly increased.
Subversion and Transformation Artifice - any animals that can be used as mounts by the folk of the Garden are large enough for their masters, and often develop wings and fierce loyalty to their riders.
Second Seed
A creation-level Scribe, capable of creating entire cities with Ordinary object Conjuration and Principle of Worlds (either as a whole, risking response from the Realm Defense Grid or in parts), plus the ability to create small Chancels from spare Commoners.
Extending the Garden into the Chancels is easy, and then one just needs to drop off a Chancel (or two) in Yu Shan, the Abyss, and Malfeas to have a stairway to heaven (and other places). Add in Occult 7 and Style 5, and summoning demons or elementals to do this is fairly easy.
Third Seed
1-dot Oneiromancy
Assumption of Dreams and Passion
Emotion-Weaving Style: creates the Motivation: "Love, cherish and protect the Garden". at high essence, this works on anything non-Exalted. Guess what Yozi are not?
Manacles of Virtue: enhances Compassion to a truly ridiculous degree
Ordinary Object Conjuration - the tears of truly compassionate beings have the effects of Celestial Wine on those they land on.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
meschlum
The Seeds of Eriezar's Garden
[...]
Third Seed
Every day that Meschlum makes, or shares, something that I might use in an Exalted game is a good day. :smallbiggrin: I liked this one, Meschlum.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
This is probably a bad idea:
Optional rules for Resonance:
Keep in mind, I want a somewhat lighter consequences for Abyssals, as lets face it most of the other Exalted get off relatively light for their limit tracks.
So what if instead of the canon punishments, Abyssals got a -4 dice penalty when their Resonance bursts to any actions that create or protect or something like that if their Resonance gets too high? as well as remove Sins of Death?
I mean, I know that the Neverborn are supposed to be merciless nihilists and Resonance is supposed to be an intrinsic part of the Exaltation, I just don't think Resonance as it is now is very fun or enjoyable to an Abyssals game,and I don't really want to play a tragic story or some stupid redemption story, or a story about being an evil world-killing weapon. I want to play a scary necromantic anti-hero…..but the Abyssals book reccomends solars to play as that, I say no, because they are too shiny, and don't care how dark their animas can become, their caste marks will be still be golden and throw off the whole scary necromantic anti-hero aesthetic, I can't be a dark hero if I have a golden mark on my forehead, I just can't.
yet I can't play as an Abyssal because their Resonance is too restricting.
Maybe I should just stick to Fiend Caste…..
Exalted is very good at building characters within their themes. not so much characters that are in between said themes……its as if I want something between a Solar and an Abyssal……which probably means I want an Infernal…..thats probably it….
but mostly? I'm just thinking out loud, I don't know why I keep coming back to this.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
I do like the idea of breaking abyssals out of their current (to me) flat-feeling characterization.
Abyssals are my single least favorite thing in the setting. If I make a character for exalted, I think that destroying the setting is usually bottom of my priority list. I like the setting, it's why I play the game. And if I don't want to destroy the setting, and do want to be heroic, it is NOT because I am looking forward to playing a solar. If I wanted to play a solar, I'd just build a solar. I rarely do, and I didn't, so leave me alone with my reanimation laboratory and the corpses of two dozen yeddims so I can design my rebuttal to those snooty deathlords who think I should work for them AND those jerkwad sidereals who keep trying to convert me.
It's weird, because I find the idea of abyssals rife with potential. I dislike solars because they're kind of boring to me, both mechanically and fluff wise. I HATE abyssals because they could be cool but instead they're solars with half the potential for characterization stripped away.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Yea I know right? somehow I find Abyssals more interesting, yet at the same time I can't play them because their interesting possibilities are choked off by Resonance, I don't want to become a Solar minus the Great Curse…..because thats just Solars! without the Great Curse! even more boring!
So somehow Resonance has to be modified so that allows one to express the possibilities of the Abyssals, yet without making the Neverborn sound completely stupid for not making it the way it is now.
which leads me to my current dilemma: how to design Resonance to be light enough to be playable, yet still be a punishment? if I tamper too much, I risk going too far in the other direction….
Edit: Wait, I got an idea. The Neverborn are somewhat insane. mostly because of their eternal pain thing they have going on. what if the punishment, when the Resonance Bursts…..they share some of their pain with the Abyssals as punishment? as in when the Abyssal bursts their Resonance,
they experience the pain of the Neverborn for (Resonance dots) days or hours, so the Abyssal can protect some people, then when their Resonance bursts afterwards, they double over in pain and are out of action for for a few days, experiencing the pain of the Neverborn themselves, paying for their actions with a piece of the eternal torment the Neverborn experience all the time. the message being: This is just the pain of a few hours or days, slave, how do you think it is for us, all the time? don't we deserve an end to our pain?
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
The problem is that it should be, from a mechanical viewpoint, equal in problematic-ness to a Solar or Infernal limit break. It should screw them up a bit, but not make them utterly unreachable.
The real problem is that from a FLAVORFUL point of view, it should be /bad/.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lord Raziere
and throw off the whole scary necromantic anti-hero aesthetic, I can't be a dark hero if I have a golden mark on my forehead, I just can't.
Well, that's not a problem with the splat...
~ ♅
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lix Lorn
The problem is that it should be, from a mechanical viewpoint, equal in problematic-ness to a Solar or Infernal limit break. It should screw them up a bit, but not make them utterly unreachable.
The real problem is that from a FLAVORFUL point of view, it should be /bad/.
How about this:
Torment of the Neverborn:
When the Abyssal reaches 10 points of Resonance, for one scene they experience the pain of the Neverborn themselves, wracked with the torture of the eternal of pain of living, the Abyssal can't take any actions for the duration of the scene.
What do you think? bad enough?
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Too bad for the former. This isn't just an easy problem.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Ressonance should probably just explode from the abyssal when it hits 10 and damage everything in the area (including self and allies). No creative punishments, no emotional shenanigans. Just plain, old death essence spurting out like a demesne suffering of power buildup.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lix Lorn
Too bad for the former. This isn't just an easy problem.
yea…. but its worth trying to fix. and specific enough to be possible to fix, unlike the nebulous problems of Sidereals and Lunars.
@ Draken: how about….
Torment of the Neverborn
When the Abyssal's Resonance reaches 10, death essence explodes out of him,
decaying everything and everyone within (Essence X 20) yards, dealing half their current total number of undamaged health levels in damage.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Sids can go die in fire. They bring more harm than good. :smalltongue:
Lunars ... I believe their charms should be more flexible and utilitarian. So You could be the "Me smash !" Conan rip-off but also other hues of self-dependent survivor.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lord Raziere
yea…. but its worth trying to fix. and specific enough to be possible to fix, unlike the nebulous problems of Sidereals and Lunars.
@ Draken: how about….
Torment of the Neverborn
When the Abyssal's Resonance reaches 10, death essence explodes out of him,
decaying everything and everyone within (Essence X 20) yards, dealing half their current total number of undamaged health levels in damage.
I really like how Resonance works as it is. It's no Clarity, but it's a nice, effective mechanic.
But if we want to balance it as a one burst at ten thing, I would recommend we look at The Torment of Cecelyne as a guide, which is [Sux on Esence roll] damage. That seems a little bit low, but it has the potential to be pretty bad, while 1/2 your current health is... always 1/2 your current health.
Of course, directly copying Cecel is not a good idea either, but as a level of power it might be a good judge. Maybe there should be a minimum, but move it down to 1/3 or 1/4?
Also, that is easily used offensively, and while the system is meant to be gameable to destroy your opponents along with things that you care about, being able to hurt only yourself among blasting lots of enemies seems too abusable.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Recaiden
I really like how Resonance works as it is. It's no Clarity, but it's a nice, effective mechanic.
But if we want to balance it as a one burst at ten thing, I would recommend we look at The Torment of Cecelyne as a guide, which is [Sux on Esence roll] damage. That seems a little bit low, but it has the potential to be pretty bad, while 1/2 your current health is... always 1/2 your current health.
Of course, directly copying Cecel is not a good idea either, but as a level of power it might be a good judge. Maybe there should be a minimum, but move it down to 1/3 or 1/4?
Also, that is easily used offensively, and while the system is meant to be gameable to destroy your opponents along with things that you care about, being able to hurt only yourself among blasting lots of enemies seems too abusable.
The neverborn are crazy and only half capable of coming up with a workable plan. Do you really expect air-tight chains out of them?
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Yea, Auto and Gaia are examples of normal Primordials, and look at the bad decisions and such they make.
The Yozis are injured Primordials who are quite clearly shown to be fallen from grace and while quite capable of doing great things but….well just look at the Infernals in general, they are powerful, but not really that well designed to accomplish Yozi goals.
Now look at the Neverborn, they have fallen even worse than the Yozis, they are in eternal pain, they have experienced death and are basically nothing but hate and such, if anything they should be worse at designing than the Yozis.
The current Resonance system does not make sense: it looks like it was designed by a rational, methodical being who following a logical well thought plan to destroy the world.
ask yourself: are the Neverborn rational? No. they aren't. They are crazy hate-filled nightmare ghost cathedrals.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Perhaps Resonance is Void's gift ?
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Scroll of Errata does state that even if the Neverborn were not there, Resonance would still afflict Abyssals in the same manner it does with the dead titans there. It hints at Oblivion itself being sapient, I guess.
Anyway, I don't think calling it a Torment fits, Resonance is not Limit after all. I would say simply Resonance Detonation (and keeping the option to vent resonance) would be a better fit.
I also wonder the potential of having resonance take on some of the aspects of Clarity, there is death essence building up inside your (technically) still-living body after all. The more resonance you have (up until 9, at 10 it explodes), the better it makes you kill stuff, but the more the pain and horror of the unstable energy coursing your chakras hinders your ability to be more than a babbling psycho.
Then again, that is dissonance, isn't it?
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Draken
Then again, that is dissonance, isn't it?
It's implied that the similarities between Autochthon's Void and the Void are eerie enough that no one really feels like looking into it.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
well yes, one could try modifying Dissonance a bit to be Resonance…..
Maybe, the Resonance Detonation would act as one big scene long shot of pure Dissonance? you act like a Dissonance 10 person for a full scene? think that would work?
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Draken
Scroll of Errata does state that even if the Neverborn were not there, Resonance would still afflict Abyssals in the same manner it does with the dead titans there. It hints at Oblivion itself being sapient, I guess.
Anyway, I don't think calling it a Torment fits, Resonance is not Limit after all. I would say simply Resonance Detonation (and keeping the option to vent resonance) would be a better fit.
I also wonder the potential of having resonance take on some of the aspects of Clarity, there is death essence building up inside your (technically) still-living body after all. The more resonance you have (up until 9, at 10 it explodes), the better it makes you kill stuff, but the more the pain and horror of the unstable energy coursing your chakras hinders your ability to be more than a babbling psycho.
Then again, that is dissonance, isn't it?
Yeah, but dissonance is the original resonance, at least in my lights (I also view the Engine of extinction as the original neverborn: see my earlier post on the guy). And it doesn't explode at 10, which puts resonance as a one up. The benefit, in my mind, is the same as I enjoy with dissonance and clarity: if you're not careful, it's easy to lose your humanity along the way, giving you a choice between embracing your transhuman side and struggling to maintain your connection to the things you care about. I guess the problem I have with Resonance as Dissonance is the same problem I have with resonance to begin with: it cuts the legs out from under a lot of character archetypes, because the people least likely to embrace it are those who are affected the most.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
It is more than implied, I think. I am fairly sure I saw somewhere that Apostates can take Whispers to hear the grinding of the Engine of Extinction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lord Raziere
well yes, one could try modifying Dissonance a bit to be Resonance…..
Maybe, the Resonance Detonation would act as one big scene long shot of pure Dissonance? you act like a Dissonance 10 person for a full scene? think that would work?
The thing is that's basically a Deliberate Cruelty limit break.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Good point :smallconfused:
and I'm not sure if Resonance being an anti-virtue form of the Great Curse would work either…..
so how about this: we keep the optional nature of the Resonance effects, but we scale the effects down a bit:
During a Resonance Burst, an Abyssal spends Resonance dots for these effects:
For spending one Resonance dot an Abyssal can have these negative effects:
-Inflicting one lethal health level of damage upon one of their positive intimacies or allies
-Impose a -1 internal penalty to one of their own or their allies attributes for one scene
-Inflict one debility upon themselves, one of their positive intimacies, or their allies, for a scene
-Reduce one their own or their allies virtues by one for one scene.
-reduce one of their skills or one of the skills of their allies to zero for one scene
These effects are stackable of course. and thats all.
but of course, players should talk it out with each other about whom should get these negative effects, and what player would be fine with which negative effect and all that. unless of course the Resonance is at 10 at which point the ST still gets to decide :smalleek:
Edit: in other news the Skyrim theme is now my theme for Full Moon Lunars.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
So... I'm not quite sure why you want to change resonance in the first place. Is it too harsh? Because it's not half as bad as most Torments, and unlike every other limit break, you can bleed it off bits at a time to remain almost entirely unaffected. Being a heroic Abyssal requires care, sure. But it's not difficult in the least... ok, it's not difficult because of resonance. (Your real problem is the deathlords you are betraying and their minions.)
Now, since resonance is an essence roll, I'll admit it becomes rather unmanageable at higher essence. But higher essence is when you can change it, find some way to become something other than a weapon. In short: Once you reach the point that resonance is a real problem, you create a Devil Tiger equivalent and change it into something else.(Or become a solar. But that's boring.) Until then... meh, avoid having any living pets and you'll be fine.
Edit: Just to be clear, there's nothing wrong with changing it. I'm just curious as to why you see a need.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
because Torments enhance play experience because they are still tied to the Great Curse and all that. the Great Curse is well designed and the Infernals version of it has good ways to make sure that their doesn't get too bad for them.
Resonance limits play experience. While individually the effects are not as bad as any Torment, the Resonance effects are designed to be put on top with one another and combined they equal something far worse than any Torment, with effects that are more long lasting- a single 2 dot Resonance burst is enough to turn a positive intimacy into one of hatred….y'know permanently. another gets you possessed by the Neverborn, another gets one your limbs crippled, a 3- Resonance burst outright kills a mortal an Abyssal knows, 5-dot can create a small shadowland that lasts for days, and these effects combine together to make something worse than any Torment.
plus the fact that there is Sins of Death means my defiant Abyssal characters cannot actually fight the people that they would be best fighting at, y'know the people that it would make the most sense for him to fight, the people he is rebelling against.
the result is that while I can live with normal Great Curse, deal with Infernal Great Curse just fine, and easily get around Clarity by keeping myself around mortals,
I always feel like actively trying to weasel out of Resonance, because I don't EVER want these to happen and its VERY easy to gain Resonance dots compared to the Great Curse which only acts up if I do something against one specific thing or whatever, while there is an entire list of things that could get me Resonance that I have to remember and the consequences for being careless are far worse than any Torment or Limit Break, sure I have charms that could reduce them…..but I'm not sure how other people feel about them,
as I've heard some say that they are broken so that options out.
This all of course, gets in the way of playing the character I want to play, and as I think someone else said (Golentan?) "the characters least meant to deal with it are affected the most by it" the way it is set up, the character concepts I want to do with Abyssals are the ones that can't be done because of Resonance.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Have short lived living pets that breed like there is no tomorrow ? This way at high Essence You could bleed Resonance "safely".:smallwink:
EDIT: And what kind of chars Abyssal ones You can't implement thanks to Resonance as it stands ? Curious. For me it is a "torture device" and to be honest, can be used to Your "benefit".
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Hmm…..note to self: make said pets look like characters I hate.
for others I suggest making them look like:
Jar-Jar Binks
Scrappy Doo
any other annoying character you hate from media.
Edit: How? how can I possibly use Resonance to my benefit? other than killing annoying characters?
V: Exactly.
@ Lix: DOUBLE EXACTLY!!
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rikandur Azebol
Have short lived living pets that breed like there is no tomorrow ? This way at high Essence You could bleed Resonance "safely".:smallwink:
EDIT: And what kind of chars Abyssal ones You can't implement thanks to Resonance as it stands ? Curious. For me it is a "torture device" and to be honest, can be used to Your "benefit".
If you're keeping things around whose only purpose is to die horribly to Resonance bleed, they will probably be low down on the target list of Resonance, after the things you actually want to keep alive.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
That there is the problem. The other curses are temporary or reversible. Resonance kills things, ruins things, and hurts things permanently.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lord Raziere
How? how can I possibly use Resonance to my benefit?
Oh, that one's easy. Go somewhere isolated, vent enough Resonance to achieve the "I'm in a shadowland" effect, and then take the opportunity to use all your Spectral-keyworded stuff without needing the Willpower surcharge. :smalltongue:
Perhaps walk into the Wyld for a bit, then crank out all that Resonance until you can use Nightmare-Carving Murmur, Frenzied Forge Within, y'know... wait 'til all that subsides, and then come back into Creation with the handy stuff you made. :smallcool:
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Wait.
Your telling me….. that if I protect five people…..then go into the Wyld, Resonance burst a 5-Blight…I get to use cool reality-sculpting stuff? except that still involves one mortal I care about dying…..unless I use that spell, Rune of Sweet Passing I think to turn him into a Ghost when he dies…..
*lightbulb*
its so simple…..so Abyssal….an Abyssal doesn't protect people he cares about by keeping them alive, he turns them into ghosts, which he then protects instead. you could even say that its a blessing, now the mortal I care about, is a ghost I care about who can learn Arcanoi and use essence now. Resonance can't touch people I care about if they are Ghosts…..
but intimacies can still be taken away or turned into hatred. darn. :smallannoyed:
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lord Raziere
but intimacies can still be taken away or turned into hatred.
That's why you vent Resonance, rather than letting it burst. By venting the Resonance, you allocate where it goes, remember?
Also, they don't have to die if everyone you care about has enlightened Essence. :smallamused: With the right Charms and/or substances, that's easy enough.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
but how does enlightened essence help? they are still mortal, being a ghost is the same thing, except they get charms that will probably help you in the Underworld, which is kinda the Abyssals niche place.
edit: oh right, mortal = can't wield essence. supernatural = wield essence. enlightened mortal wields essence = technically not a mortal. therefore not vulnerable to Resonance, because they can wield Essence….
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
If You base all Your positive intimancies on Hate, for the time begin. Even unchecked Resonance bursts will not harm them, right ?
For example "My wife"(love) to "My wife"(hate her discomforts). :smallbiggrin:
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lord Raziere
Wait.
Your telling me….. that if I protect five people…..then go into the Wyld, Resonance burst a 5-Blight…I get to use cool reality-sculpting stuff? except that still involves one mortal I care about dying…..unless I use that spell, Rune of Sweet Passing I think to turn him into a Ghost when he dies…..
*lightbulb*
its so simple…..so Abyssal….an Abyssal doesn't protect people he cares about by keeping them alive, he turns them into ghosts, which he then protects instead. you could even say that its a blessing, now the mortal I care about, is a ghost I care about who can learn Arcanoi and use essence now. Resonance can't touch people I care about if they are Ghosts…..
but intimacies can still be taken away or turned into hatred. darn. :smallannoyed:
Hmm...the Ink Monkeys did make an Abyssal Charm that let you protect ghosts you had an Intimacy towards (IIRC it worked on Intimacies, may be remembering it wrong). Meant they couldn't be summoned/banished, and some other stuff. Works well with this setup - you'd be doing this for people you care about anyway, and the stuff that Charm gives helps nullify some of the downsides of being a ghost.
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Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread VIII: Ten Thousand Playgrounders Post As One!
Frankly, the only problem I see with Resonance that goes around killing mortals you value is that it might kill people who are plot important (i.e. people who you as a player rather than you as a character want to keep alive). So what about if one feature of Resonance was that it attracted mortals to you?
Think about your average antihero type. In general, they end up getting temporary love interests or morality pets who inevitably die in order to show how serious and dark the whole situation is. While sometimes these people are key to the story, often they just serve as a brief shelter from the storms that threaten the hero. Think of Allie in the first Dark Tower book: she's important to Roland, but in a plot sense she comes in basically to show the bittersweet darkness of the character.
As for the fluff reasons, it could be explained as the power of oblivion having a powerful fascination for certain mortals, such that they will willingly and unknowingly throw themselves into the Abyss.